"Official" Audyssey thread.

[giomania]

Updated: 4 October 09

Please download the Word document at the end of the post for a much prettier (and easier to follow) format.

Audyssey Setup Guide

Created (compiled) by giomania

The step-by-step instructions below are based on information collected from the Audyssey FAQ, located here: http://www.audyssey.com/faq/index.html and the AVS Forum Official Audyssey thread, located here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=795421

Disclaimer: The following procedures may not work in all cases, as there are too many variables to account for in this document. If you feel further assistance is required, please visit the AVS Forum Official Audyssey thread. Last, this document has been proven to lead to Audyssey Obsessiveness Syndrome (AOS) in some susceptible Audysseyphiles.

I. Room Setup

A. Lower the noise floor of the room (<45dBA) by turning off the HVAC system, projector, etc.

II. Subwoofer Setup

A. Determine the optimal placement of the subwoofer within your room using common accepted practices. (location, location, location)

1. Here are some useful references for subwoofer setup:
a. Audioholics subwoofer placement article: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/ge...or-bass-part-1
b. Harman multiple subwoofer placement white paper: http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf

B. Disable the Low-Pass Filter (LPF) on the subwoofer, if allowed.

1. Disabling the LPF will result in more accurate subwoofer distance measurements.

2. If the LPF cannot be disabled, set it to the highest frequency allowed.

C. Ensure the subwoofer(s) are at least 3 – 5 inches (7 – 13 cm) from the wall.

1. Reverberating walls may result in inaccurate subwoofer distance measurements.

D. Set the subwoofer polarity (0 or 180 degrees), (+ or -) to “0” or “+”.

E. If the subwoofer has a phase control (in addition to the polarity control), set it at “0”.

1. Phase controls on subwoofers apply "delay" at one frequency rather than the needed group delay that is frequency-independent. So, it is best to just leave them at “0”.

F. If the sub has an EQ system, you can use it to tame large peaks (see item 1 below) before calibrating with Audyssey, but this is generally not recommended. Most of these EQ systems only allow one measurement position, and therefore only correct the amplitude (volume) for one seating position. Audyssey adds the benefit of measuring in the time domain for multiple seating positions to create an acoustic bubble.

1. Narrow peaks or dips in the response below 100 Hz that are 1/3 or 1/6 of an octave wide can be improved—but not eliminated—by Audyssey Mult EQ XT.
a. In these situations, the built-in subwoofer EQ systems might be useful.
b. The SVS AS-EQ1 and the Audyssey Sub Equalizer (introduced in 2009), have double the resolution of Audyssey MultEQ XT found in Audio-Video Receivers, which allows it to correct more narrow peaks and valleys in subwoofer response.

G. Calibrate the subwoofer volume

1. Newer Receivers (i.e. Denon AVR-4310 CI) have automated the subwoofer volume calibration process, making steps 2 – 8 below unnecessary. If you are fortunate enough to own one of these newer models, proceed to section III.

2. Set the volume control on the subwoofer at the middle of the adjustment range allowed.
a. Please note this “starting point” may not work with all subwoofers.

3. Place the microphone at the first measurement position (see guidance in section V.) and proceed with the calibration process for the first measurement—until all speakers have been measured once.

4. After the first measurement process is complete, select "Calculate", then "Save" or "Store", then go to "Check Parameters".
a. Audyssey will calculate the speaker distances and trim level settings from this first measurement.
b. Each manufacturer has a slightly different interface, so the terminology may not exactly match.

5. Check the subwoofer trim level setting in the receiver / processor menu.
a. If the subwoofers’ trim level is at the maximum limit of the cut (-) or boost (+) adjustment range allowed, you need to adjust the volume control on the subwoofer and repeat step #2. Specific instructions will follow.
b. Trim adjustments are a tool used to achieve the goal of producing the same Sound Pressure Level (SPL) from each speaker / subwoofer in the system.
c. For example, Denon receivers have a trim adjustment range from -12dB to +12dB.

6. If the subwoofer trim level is at the maximum boost (+), turn up the volume control on the subwoofer slightly and repeat step #2.

7. If the subwoofer trim level is at the maximum cut (-), turn down the volume control on the subwoofer slightly and repeat step #2.

8. A suggestion for tweakers is to set the subwoofer trim level in the range of ±3 dB.
a. This is only a suggestion for the tweaker who likes to play around.
b. Audyssey’s position is to perform steps 4 to 6 above.

• Note: This process is for checking the subwoofer trim levels only. After you have completed the subwoofer setup, be sure to start the measurement process over, following the guidance in section V to use all six or eight measurement positions available.
III. Dual mono (LFE) Subwoofer Setup

A few receiver and processor models are able to apply individual Audyssey equalization curves to multiple subwoofers simultaneously. If you do not own one of these units, the SVS AS-EQ1 will apply individual Audyssey equalization curves to two subwoofers simultaneously. Alternatively, you can follow the below advice to have two subwoofers share one Audyssey equalization curve.

A. Place the subwoofers symmetrically within the room, if at all possible.

B. Place the subwoofers at identical distances from the primary listening position, if at all possible.

1. When two subwoofers are driven as one unit, proper time alignment is critical.

2. The two subwoofers will not be properly time aligned unless they have the same physical distance from the primary listening position.

3. Adjusting the physical distance of the two subs effectively adjusts their time delay.

C. The above advice applies only to sealed rectangular rooms without any openings.

D. Follow the steps in subwoofer setup (section II.) for each subwoofer: Ensure the polarity settings are the same.

E. As an alternative to locating the subs at equal distances from the main listening position, you may insert an electronic device between the receiver / processor and the nearest subwoofer.

1. This device should introduce a time delay such that its output sound reaches the main listening position at the same time as the farthest subwoofer.

F. Attempt to match the output level of both subwoofers.

1. Use the receiver / processor internal LFE test tone while adjusting the volume control on the subwoofer to perform the following:

2. Turn one subwoofer on, and adjust the output level to 80 dB using an SPL meter.
a. Ensure the SPL meter is located where the first Audyssey measurement position will be taken (see section V.), and is set to “C” and “Slow”.
b. If you do not have an SPL meter, adjust the level by ear.

3. Turn off the first subwoofer, turn on the second subwoofer, and repeat the procedure.

4. Turn on both subwoofers and calibrate with Audyssey.

IV. Microphone Setup

A. Use the microphone that came with the unit.

1. Use of a microphone from another make or model will cause incorrect frequency response measurements because of different internal calibration.

B. Mount the microphone on a boom arm microphone stand with an adapter or a camera tripod.

1. While more expensive, the floor-standing boom arm microphone stand allows more precise microphone placement and the possible reduction or elimination of mechanical vibrations, which can affect low-frequency measurements. The boom arm microphone stand rests on the floor, while a camera tripod typically rests on the seat(s).
a. Search the web for “On Stage CM-01” to see one microphone stand adapter.

2. If possible, place the microphone stand behind the seat with the boom arm extending forward so there will be no obstructions between the microphone and the speakers.
a. The microphone stand and boom arm cause reflections at high frequencies, so it is best to keep it out of the way; at least for the front speaker measurements.

C. Point the microphone at the ceiling.

D. Place the microphone at ear height when seated.

1. During the measurement process, do not vary the height of the microphone more than a few inches relative to the first measured position.

2. If you have large dipole line-source speakers (Soundlabs, Innersound/Sanders, Magnepan, Martin Logan, etc.), or unusually tall speakers, please visit AVS member JonFo’s addendum on Audyssey setup and measurements for large dipole speakers, located here: http://www.martinloganowners.com/~td...ead.php?t=9401

E. If the seat back is higher than ear height, ensure the microphone is raised above the seat back.

1. Positioning the microphone above the seat back will eliminate additional reflections.

2. For recliner chairs, you can recline the seat (lower the back) to minimize the reflections.

V. Microphone Placement (Measurement Positions)

A. Use the maximum amount of measurement positions allowed by the Audyssey version.

1. If you are using MultEQ or MultEQ XT you should use all six or eight measurement positions available.

B. Avoid taking measurements too far off to the side (near room boundaries) and / or outside the front Left and Right loudspeakers (off-axis), even if seats are located there.

1. Frequency response in these locations will exhibit reduced high frequencies.

2. Audyssey would adjust the room correction filters according to this measured response, resulting in unnecessary compensation.

C. Avoid taking measurements too close to the back wall, even if the only seating is located there.

1. Move the microphone at least 1 foot (30 cm) from the back wall before measuring.

D. Measure behind the main seating area—at ear height, obviously—if you can.

1. If the main seating area is out in the room, and you can measure behind it while keeping the microphone at least 1 foot (30 cm) from the back wall, you should do it. The idea is to "surround" the seating area with measurements.

E. For the first measurement, place the microphone at ear height in the primary seat / listening position, where the listener’s head would be positioned.

1. Audyssey uses the first measurement position to calculate the speaker / subwoofer level and time delay (aka distance) settings, so the microphone should be placed in the primary seating position.

2. Distance measurements are really time measurements that ensure temporal coherence. It is a critical part of calibration because—without it—you have frequencies arriving at different times: This is called non-constant group delay, and is a form of distortion. The distances are calculated so the sounds from all speakers and subwoofers arrive at the first measurement position at the same time.

F. Most seating configurations can utilize the following microphone placement methodology:

1. The first microphone position (#1) must always be where your head is located.

2. For the remainder of the measurements, use the approximate pattern in the below diagram to surround your listening area, while ensuring you follow the guidance above.

3. After the first measurement, the order in which you make the subsequent measurements does not matter: The diagram below only serves to ensure each location is measured.

4. The distance between the measurement positions is variable, and they do not require measurement. The basic idea is to surround the listening area with measurements.

5. In general, Audyssey does not recommend putting the microphone in "every seat", except (possibly) in a dedicated theater with rows. In typical living rooms, some seats are positioned either off-axis, too close to a room boundary, or both.

6. Feel free to experiment with other microphone placement patterns. Just ensure you follow the guidance in sections IV and V. The basic goal is to surround the listener(s) with measurements to create an acoustic bubble.

7. If you have additional microphone placement questions, visit the Official Audyssey thread on AVS Forum; please see the link at the beginning of this document.

Audyssey Measurement Locations (2).pdf

The red dots (numbers 1 – 6) represent microphone placement if you only take 6 measurements (MultEQ).

The green dots (numbers 7 – 8) represent two additional microphone placements when you take 8 measurements (MultEQ XT).

The blue dots (numbers 9 – 12) represent four additional microphone placements when you take 12 measurements (MultEQ Pro).

If the seating area is close to—or touching—the rear wall, and would not allow you to keep the microphone at least 1 foot (30 cm) from rear wall, you may need to relocate measurements 7 & 8 forward of measurements 1 – 3. Specifically, measurement 7 could be located at the diagonal intersection of the square formed by measurements 1,3,4, and 5. Measurement 8 could be located at the diagonal intersection of the square formed by measurements 1,2,5, and 6.



VI. During Calibration

A. Be prepared for the “chirp” measurements, as they are quite loud, and can startle you.

B. Do not make any noise during the “chirp” measurements.

1. Audyssey measures for a few milliseconds (ms) after each “chirp” is finished, but then has to wait for the DSP to calculate, so the microphone is not active until a few ms before the next set of chirps.

C. Do not stand in between the speaker and the microphone or anywhere that the sound is either reflected off of—or absorbed by—your body.

1. The natural room acoustics must not be substantially affected.

D. If a phase warning is shown, check the speaker wiring, and press “Skip” to continue the calibration.

VII. After Calibration

A. Raise the speaker crossover settings, if desired.

1. Raising the crossover frequency from the calibrated setting does not affect the channel correction implemented by Audyssey.

2. Lowering the crossover frequency from the calibrated setting is not recommended.
a. Audyssey will not provide correction to the satellite speakers lower than the frequency it measures as the -3 dB point.
3. Audyssey recommends that all speakers be set to “Small” (i.e. not Full Band) by selecting a crossover frequency. This will re-direct the frequencies below the crossover point to the subwoofer, resulting in improved headroom for the main amplifier and 8x higher MultEQ filter resolution in the subwoofer channel (e.g. flatter bass).
a. Setting the speakers to “Small” with a 60 Hz – 80 Hz crossover is a good starting point, assuming the post-calibration crossover setting is 60 Hz or lower.

4. For additional details about the crossover selection process, see “Note 1” below.

B. Raise the low-pass filter (LPF) setting—usually incorrectly identified as a crossover—of the LFE subwoofer in the receiver / processor to 120Hz, if allowed.

C. If the speaker distance settings (not the subwoofer) were not measured accurately, and are markedly different from what you get with a tape measure, start over.

1. Incorrect distance measurements for the satellite speakers indicate a procedural error, and the associated EQ results are likely to be poor.
a. If the recommendations in sections IV and V were followed, you may need to change some physical aspect of the measurement setup.

D. Do not change the distance setting of the subwoofer, unless you have read and completely understood this section: The subwoofer / satellite speaker time alignment blend is based on this setting.

1. Inaccurate subwoofer distance measurements usually occur when a subwoofer’s Low-Pass Filter (LPF) is active, or when using subwoofer equalization systems.
a. The LPF—by nature of its design—introduces additional delay to the signal.
b. Audyssey measures this signal delay and increases the subwoofer distance setting to compensate for it.

2. If the distance measured by Audyssey is greater than the physical distance, there is a signal delay between the generated “pulse” and the arrival of the resultant response at the microphone. This is a common anomaly due to circuitry (e.g. LPF, EQ) in subwoofers.

3. If the distance measured by Audyssey is less than the physical distance, here are some possible causes:
a. Holding the microphone in your hand.
b. Use of a subwoofer with a two-driver push-pull configuration. This is an unexplained phenomenon which has been noted by Audyssey.
c. Tactile transducers (e.g. Crowson, Buttkicker, etc.) left on when measuring.
d. Acoustical low-frequency noise in the room (e.g. projector fan, cable hum).
e. Electrical noise coming from another system component. The most common offender is the cable or other set-top box (STB). In several cases, disconnecting the STB from the system solved the problem.
f. The power supply of a computer connected to the same electrical circuit.
g. If none of the above situations apply to your problem, see “Note 2” below.
h. If you are certain the above scenarios (a. – g.) do not apply to your situation, then you can manually set the distance of the subwoofer in the AVR to the actual physical distance. Ensure you measure from the center of the subwoofer driver to the height of the microphone tip. If you would like to ensure this is the correct action to take, visit the Official Audyssey thread on AVS Forum for a thorough dissection of your problem; please see the link at the beginning of this document.

E. Disable any Night Modes, Dynamic Range Compression (DRC), and Dynamic Compression (D. Comp) in the receiver / processor as well as the DVD / BD player.

1. If these features are not disabled, they could possibly cause adverse interaction with Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.

2. You may need to temporarily turn off MultEQ to access these parameters in your receiver / processor.

3. You may also need to select a specific soundtrack type or listening mode before a given parameter will appear in the menu for adjustment; check the manual to be certain.

F. If your receiver / processor has the THX Loudness Plus feature, turn it off if you plan to use Dynamic Volume.

G. Select one of the Audyssey target curves. Note that in some receivers / processors, the target curve selection is automatic as explained in #3 below.

1. MultEQ creates filters that correct the frequency response of your speakers to a specific target curve. These target curves are called: (“Audyssey” or “Audyssey Reference”) and (“Audyssey Flat”).
a. The “Audyssey” or “Audyssey Reference” target curve is designed to translate film mixing room conditions to the home listening room. This curve is flat to 4 kHz, has a slight roll-off from 4kHz - 10 kHz (-2dB @ 10 kHz), and another additional roll-off from 10 kHz - 20 kHz (-6dB @ 20 kHz). This curve should be used for listening to movies in most cases.
i. In a typical living room, the acoustical conditions require a flat curve up to a certain frequency, and then a roll-off. This roll-off allows the proper balancing of the direct and reverberant sound at high frequencies.
b. The “Audyssey Flat” target curve has no roll-off. This curve should be used for movies if you are seated in the near field, if your room has a lot of high frequency absorption due to acoustic treatments, or if you are using THX Re-EQ.
c. Audyssey research has found that listeners in most home environments are seated in the reverberant field. The mixing of most films (in post-production studios) is completed with the recording engineer seated in the near field. As a result, it is usually beneficial to use a high frequency roll-off (Audyssey or Audyssey Reference curve) to tame brightness. However, if you have an acoustically treated room and / or are seated relatively close to the front speakers, you may be located in the near field. Therefore, it may prove beneficial to try listening without a roll-off (Audyssey Flat curve) to see if there is an improvement in sound quality.

2. Re-Equalization technologies affect the target curve selection.
a. One component of THX is called Re-EQ, which applies a high frequency shelf cut filter. When listening in THX mode with Re-EQ on, it is recommended to use the “Audyssey Flat” target curve.
b. Some manufacturers have developed proprietary high frequency roll-off filters with various trade names; Denon’s “Cinema EQ”, for example. It is recommended to disable (turn off) such roll-off features so the “Audyssey” or “Audyssey Reference” target curve can operate properly.

3. The selection of Audyssey target curves is performed manually in some products (e.g. Denon, NAD, Marantz) and automatically in others (e.g., Onkyo).
a. For products with manual selection follow the guidelines above.
b. For products with automatic selection, the following rules apply:
i. The “Audyssey” or “Audyssey Reference” target curve is selected after calibration.
ii. The “Audyssey Flat” target curve is selected automatically when you switch to a THX listening mode.

4. Note: Music content is not produced with the same standards as film, so, it is difficult to predict which target curve to use. Audyssey recommends starting with the "Audyssey" or “Audyssey Reference” curve. In some cases, the "Audyssey Flat" curve might be preferable for music.

H. If desired, trim level adjustments can be made in the receiver / processor to boost subwoofer levels for those who prefer more bass output. While not recommended, some users have made trim level adjustments so that all speakers measure at 75 dB with an SPL meter (set at “C” and “Slow”) using the internal test tones. See “Note 3” and “Note 4” below.

1. Audyssey will monitor these changes.

2. The changes are monitored so that Audyssey and its features (Room correction curves, Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume, etc.) work as designed.

3. If you were to make changes to the settings on a subwoofer amplifier, Audyssey would have no knowledge of this, and those features would not operate as designed.

Note 1 – Crossover Settings
Audyssey MultEQ measures in-room response of each speaker, determining the lowest the frequency they can reasonably produce. This is known as the -3dB frequency point. The -3dB frequency point is used by the receiver / processor to calculate the speaker settings (Large / Small) and set the crossover points, if applicable. The bass management system in the receiver / processor then performs the high and low pass filtering centered at the crossover frequency. The important point is that Audyssey does not set the crossovers. Unfortunately, current receiver / processor models do not display or report the -3dB frequency point measured for each speaker. The only information available is whether or not the speaker was designated “Large” or “Small”, and any crossover point selected.

Receiver / processor manufacturers use a specific Frequency Decision Point (FDP) to classify speakers as “Large” (full-range) or “Small” (less than full-range). The selection of the FDP varies among manufacturers and models, but 40 Hz is becoming the standard. If the -3 dB frequency measured by Audyssey is below the FDP, the speaker is classified as “Large’. If the -3 dB frequency measured by Audyssey is above the FDP, the speaker is classified as “Small”, and a crossover frequency is selected.

Each receiver / processor has various crossover points from which to choose. Typically, the first crossover setting above the -3 dB point measured by Audyssey is chosen. For example: If your receiver has crossover settings of 40, 60, 80, 100 and 120 Hz, and the speaker is set to “Small” with an 80 Hz crossover, that is an indication the - 3dB point is somewhere between 60 and 80 Hz. Crossover selections in increments of 10 Hz are becoming more common, which allows greater flexibility.

Note 2 – Issues which may affect subwoofer distance measurements
After having followed the guidance in section IV and section VII, D., some users still have subwoofer distance measurements that are less than the physical distance. The theory is that mechanical coupling between the camera tripod or microphone stand and some vibrating surface is causing low-frequency vibrations to be transmitted through the flooring and/or seating to the microphone. These vibrations are interpreted as having arrived before the actual sound waves, perhaps because they travel faster through the flooring and/or seating faster than the sound waves travel through the air. The rubber pads on most stands are usually good enough to prevent this, but if any part of the camera tripod, microphone stand, or boom arm is touching a vibrating surface you could have coupling that is picked up by the microphone.

The result is that the subwoofer distance is calculated as too short. Also, the correction Audyssey applies may not be optimal, as this anomaly could fool Audyssey into thinking the subwoofer extends lower than it actually does. Taught leather couches—prevalent in home theaters—are one probable cause, but it may depend on the structural properties of the various materials. Put your research grant applications in now! In all seriousness, the solution to this theoretical problem is to use a microphone stand with a boom arm positioned so that it rests on the floor and does not touch the seat or any other resonant surface. This solution has corrected the anomaly for some users.

Note 3 – Trim Level Settings
Before adjusting the trim settings, please understand that producing a calibrated setting other than 75 dB Sound Pressure Level (SPL) results in reference level being achieved with the master volume set to something other than “0”. Further, Audyssey microphones are specified with a ± 2 dB maximum sensitivity tolerance. So, in the worst case scenario, the Audyssey microphone would be 2 dB “off”, which is more accurate than most popular consumer-level SPL meters. Consumer-level SPL meters are usually very inaccurate when measuring subwoofers. You have been warned.

Note 4 – Reference Versus Preference
A common misunderstanding about Audyssey stems from differences between reference and preference. It is really important to understand the basic goal of the Audyssey technology: To solve room acoustics problems and the sound degradations they cause. The goal of Audyssey is not to shape the sound to your preference, but rather to shape the sound to reference.

Audyssey measures your room and corrects the acoustical problems based on those measurements. The reference point for this acoustical correction is based upon the only known standard: The mixing room calibration curve used in all film production, and some—but not all—music production.

Assuming there are no problems during the calibration process, what you end up with is a reference calibration. If you have some personal sound preferences, these are outside of what Audyssey is responsible for. Some people want more bass, while others complain there is too much bass. Some people want flat high frequencies, while others do not. These variances represent the difference between reference and preference.

[David Aiken]

Originally Posted by Darth Indy

Gotcha, I'll run audyssey again and see how it sounds after a few days as I do believe my hearing thus far has been skewed due to not actually having good speakers before (only HTIB until now), not having ever properly calibrated before, and having speaker levels turned way up and out of sync with one another. One last thing, I won't touch the level calibration done to the subwoofer by audyssey but you are saying not to touch the actual volume knob that is on the sub either? I figured if I wasn't happy with the bass output I could try turning the gain up and to see if it helped. I keep reading that listening at reference level will/can damage your hearing is this true? I have been listening to my reciever at volume -24db to -27db before audyssey corrections so after it lowers all my speakers levels like it does to -10db or so I would need to turn the volume to -14db to equal the volume I was listening at before?

It's not a "volume knob" on the sub, it's a gain control that enables you to match levels with the other speakers. With an AV receiver, the receiver matches the levels with the other speakers with it's settings so the idea is to let the receiver match the levels and not touch the sub's gain control after the setup. The level settings for the other speakers are gain controls too. The setup process determines what gain level is appropriate for each speaker in order for a signal of the same strength sent to each speaker to result in you hearing a sound at the same level from each speaker at the primary listening position. The volume of the sub is controlled by the receiver's volume knob, as is the volume of the other speakers. Differences in level of sound from different speakers occur when the signal for the channels in the soundtrack are different and that's a deliberate part of the soundtrack.

Turning up the gain on the sub is tricky. If you have things set so the sub is only handling sound from the LFE channel then you're changing the balance of 1 channel relative to the rest of the channels. If the sub is also handling low frequencies for the other channels, you're also changing the frequency balance within each other channel by changing the level of bass frequencies below the crossover relative to the frequencies above the crossover.

In many ways you're better off changing the level of bass by using the receiver's tone controls and playing with the bass control. It will operate across a wider range which can be a problem, but it has more effect at lower frequencies and drops off as frequency increases so its effect tends to blend into the overall sound relatively smoothly, and you change all channels equally which is a plus. The drawback is that the effect of the bass tone control may extend a little higher in frequency than you like. A lot depends on how its effect is tapered but if you're going to play around a bit, that's where I'd start since its effect will be uniform across all channels. If you start playing with the sub setting not only do you not get that tapering off effect on the boost as the frequency rises but the effect on different channels will vary if the crossover frequencies for the speakers are different.

Listening at reference level MAY damage hearing but it may not. Setting the volume knob to 0 dB does not really determine how loud things are going to be, that's determined by the level of the signal in the soundtrack and it's constantly changing through a movie. Hearing protection standards are based on the average level of sound to which you're exposed and you need a meter which actually averages the levels if you want to measure it since the decibel scale is logarithmic which means you can't do a simple arithmetic averaging. Setting the receiver to reference level can produce peaks of around 105 dB or a bit more and continuous sound at that level will certainly cause hearing damage but not every movie has a soundtrack that is going to reach that level if you set the volume knob to 0 dB. Some movies are louder than others and even if the peaks reach 105 dB, the average sound pressure level is going to be considerably lower. It's that average level that is important and most safety standards are based on a maximum unprotected exposure at an average of 85 dBA (A weighting scale) for 8 hours per day. This equates to an average of 88 dBA for 4 hours, 91 dBA for 2 hours, and so on. For each increase of 3 dBA, you halve the permissable exposure level so the recommended exposure limit to an average of 105 dBA in a day would be around 4 minutes. You could have a couple of 105 dBA peaks in a movie with an average level of 85 dBA and you could watch that movie for 8 hours based on the recommended exposure levels but if the movie had an average level of 88 dBA you could only watch it for 4 hours based on those recommendations. Most movies are around 2 hours in duration and provided the movie is the loudest thing you listen to all day, average levels of 91 dBA would be OK based on the recommendations. Peak levels are often 15-20 dB louder than average levels so that gives a rough indication that reference level is not necessarily a problem as far as hearing protection goes. It also needs to be stated that those recommendations are based on exposure 5 days a week over long periods and most people aren't going to watch a movie that pushes their exposure to the limits 5 days a week.

To my mind, the biggest problem with reference level is that the peak levels it delivers really require large rooms in order to sound reasonable, rooms like a theatre setting. In the average living room those kind of peak levels can really be quite overpowering, plus they'll tend to rattle too many things, and I don't think I've ever watched anything with my volume at reference level. Around -5 dB is about the highest I go and I have the volume control set a lot lower for many things, especially TV where volume levels often seem to be more consistent so there's less variation between peak and average levels.

Don't worry about trying to match listening levels with Audyssey to the levels you used prior to Audyssey. Simply set the level at an enjoyable level and that may vary a bit from movie to movie. You may be quite happy turning up the volume on a quiet movie and turning it down a bit from there for an action movie with a lot of loud sound effects. As a basic rule of thumb you want to have things loud enough so that you can hear and understand dialogue clearly as a minimum and perhaps a bit louder than that for fun with some of the bangs. You can always turn on night mode or its equivalent if the level that works for dialogue results in bangs that are too loud. Night mode is a dynamic compression which raises the levels of the softer parts of the soundtrack while lowering the levels of the loudest parts. It can let you get the dialogue at an acceptable level while reducing the loudness of the bangs somewhat.

[Diseasedyak]

Ok, I'm having a tough time getting my new Denon 1909 set up to my satisfaction. Basically, the front L/R and surrounds are all perfect, nice and loud during movies and games, but the center channel is just way too low.

I've following the instructions for running Audyssey posted here, but I'm wondering if there's something I need to check. I also worry that it might be simple speaker placement, as my center is below my plasma on a shelf, so it's lower down than the rest of the speakers.

Should I go into Manual Setup and bump up the center a couple of notches? Open to suggestions here, I'm a total Audyssey newb.

[pepar]

Originally Posted by Diseasedyak

Ok, I'm having a tough time getting my new Denon 1909 set up to my satisfaction. Basically, the front L/R and surrounds are all perfect, nice and loud during movies and games, but the center channel is just way too low.

I've following the instructions for running Audyssey posted here, but I'm wondering if there's something I need to check. I also worry that it might be simple speaker placement, as my center is below my plasma on a shelf, so it's lower down than the rest of the speakers.

Should I go into Manual Setup and bump up the center a couple of notches? Open to suggestions here, I'm a total Audyssey newb.

Try aiming the center speaker up towards where the ears of the listeners will be. And where the setup mic is. In fact, this is where it should aim anyway.

[EricBergan]

Originally Posted by audyssey

Do you have a push-pull type subwoofer by any chance? I have seen this happen with these types of subs and we believe it is due to the way the phasing of the two drivers interacts. I don't have a full explanation for it yet.

Chris

It's a (now 8 years old) Velodyne servo, so perhaps yes?

eric

[noah katz]

Chris,

The Denon feature lists for the 3808 CI and higher upper models say "Audyssey Dynamic EQ calibration installer ready", while for the 2809CI it says "Audyssey Dynamic EQ automatic tonal balance adjustment system".

Does this mean D EQ can be activated by the user?

If so, is any ecompared to doing it w/Pro setup?

Since it's a broadband correction is it correct to assume that less effectiveness is lost from not having Pro calibration compared to the room correction?

[audyssey]

Originally Posted by noah katz

Chris,

The Denon feature lists for the 3808 CI and higher upper models say "Audyssey Dynamic EQ calibration installer ready", while for the 2809CI it says "Audyssey Dynamic EQ automatic tonal balance adjustment system".

Does this mean D EQ can be activated by the user?

If so, is any ecompared to doing it w/Pro setup?

Since it's a broadband correction is it correct to assume that less effectiveness is lost from not having Pro calibration compared to the room correction?

Hi Noah,

Yes, Dynamic EQ is user activated on all new models. It will be user activated on the 3808CI as soon as the Denon firmware upgrade becomes available. That upgrade will include Dynamic Volume that is already included in all the 09 Denon models.

Chris

[audyssey]

Originally Posted by EricBergan

It's a (now 8 years old) Velodyne servo, so perhaps yes?

eric

I haven't seen shorter distances being reported for Velodyne subs. I recommend just setting it to the physical distance and using the LFE input on the Velodyne to bypass internal filters.

Chris

[EricScott]

Setup my Denon 1909 last night. Overall very happy w/ the sound. I am coming from an Onkyo TXSR 600 that is probably 6 years old or so. I am using a Polk RM6600 sub/sat system that is also 6 or 7 years old. I had previously connected the Polk subwoofer using Polk's recommended speaker level inputs (basically run the AVR outputs for FL and FR to the SW and then connect the FL and FR to the SW and tell the system you have Large fronts and no SW). Apparently the recommended crossover for these sats is 150Hz and since many receivers didn't let you set the crossover that high back 6 years ago Polk suggested you use their method.

For the Denon I got a SW cable and connected it to the Polk SW's (PSW 350) unfiltered LFE input. Set the volume knob on the SW to 12:00 and ran Audyssey. Fortunately Audyssey came back with crossover points of 150 Hz for the fronts and center and 120 Hz for the surrounds so I think it nailed it (was a little worried it would come back w/ a low crossover). However the LFE crossover (in Manual Setup / Speaker Setup / Crossover Freq) is at 80 Hz - do I want to change this?

Also I have noticed that the bass seems to be much more present than it was before. It is very possible my system was not set up properly before (not even sure where the LFE knob on the SW was set) but now if I am in another room I can hear some rumbling of the SW every now and then when just watching regular TV (the Olympics earlier today for example). I know you don't want to mess around w/ the SW volume knob after running Audyssey but wondering if the bass I am hearing is normal and if it isn't how I adjust for it? Do I need to change some settings and then re-run Auto Setup?

Messed around w/ Dynamic Volume and I think I like the Evening setting the best. Daytime doesn't seem to do enough and Midnight muffles the sound too much. So I am basically leaving Evening on for all of my inputs.

Thanks in advance

[thrang]

Well, I've officially retired Audyssey - Jeff Meier (UMR here on AVS) came by to calibrate my Epson Pro Cinema 1080UB, and thought the sound of my system was subpar (and without recounting too much here, I've done probably a dozen calibrations with my Onkyo 905, being quite careful and following the best practices of this forum.

Jeff has some pretty sophisticated audio test equipment, and found that one of my speakers (the center) was out of phase - an internal wiring issue that he noted is a bit more common than in should be. We fixed that, and then he spent an hour running various tests, tweaking the manual EQ and crossovers, and channel levels, and working quite a bit with my SMS-1 (I patted myself on the back to the extent that he said my sub settings were the best he's seen/heard in any setup he's walked into.) But that was improved as well.

All in all the sound is much better integrated, has much more punch, and is focused much better and with greater clarity than before.

[noah katz]

Great, thanks, Chris.

Is there a minimum firmware version of the 2808 that will ensure that it has it?

Originally Posted by audyssey

Hi Noah,

Yes, Dynamic EQ is user activated on all new models. It will be user activated on the 3808CI as soon as the Denon firmware upgrade becomes available. That upgrade will include Dynamic Volume that is already included in all the 09 Denon models.

Chris

[audyssey]

Originally Posted by noah katz

Great, thanks, Chris.

Is there a minimum firmware version of the 2808 that will ensure that it has it?

Hi Noah,

I assume you mean the 2809, right? There is no minimum version. They all ship with Dynamic EQ that turns on right after you run MultEQ.

Chris

[audyssey]

Originally Posted by EricScott

For the Denon I got a SW cable and connected it to the Polk SW's (PSW 350) unfiltered LFE input. Set the volume knob on the SW to 12:00 and ran Audyssey. Fortunately Audyssey came back with crossover points of 150 Hz for the fronts and center and 120 Hz for the surrounds so I think it nailed it (was a little worried it would come back w/ a low crossover). However the LFE crossover (in Manual Setup / Speaker Setup / Crossover Freq) is at 80 Hz - do I want to change this?

The LFE setting that you see is not a crossover. It is a filter that is only applied to the separate LFE track on DVDs and HD content. It doesn't have any effect on the content that is sent to your main channels. In any case, the LFE filter should always be set to 120 Hz. It should not be a variable setting available for tweaking, but manufacturers haven't figured that out yet...

Also I have noticed that the bass seems to be much more present than it was before. It is very possible my system was not set up properly before (not even sure where the LFE knob on the SW was set) but now if I am in another room I can hear some rumbling of the SW every now and then when just watching regular TV (the Olympics earlier today for example). I know you don't want to mess around w/ the SW volume knob after running Audyssey but wondering if the bass I am hearing is normal and if it isn't how I adjust for it? Do I need to change some settings and then re-run Auto Setup?

Welcome to the world of TV production. Let's just say it is standards... challenged. They don't typically monitor with a subwoofer and bass management in the control room. So, all kinds of bass creeps into the mix and they never hear it. Very sad. The same is true for many commercials.

Listen to some movies before deciding that the bass is wrong. You can manually change it, but do so in the subwoofer level trim within the Denon menu so that you can always put it back if you need to.

Messed around w/ Dynamic Volume and I think I like the Evening setting the best. Daytime doesn't seem to do enough and Midnight muffles the sound too much. So I am basically leaving Evening on for all of my inputs.

This is purely a personal choice that depends on the circumstances (isolation of your listening room, people sleeping next door, etc.). You may find that you need to change it at different times.

Chris

[EricScott]

Originally Posted by audyssey

The LFE setting that you see is not a crossover. It is a filter that is only applied to the separate LFE track on DVDs and HD content. It doesn't have any effect on the content that is sent to your main channels. In any case, the LFE filter should always be set to 120 Hz. It should not be a variable setting available for tweaking, but manufacturers haven't figured that out yet...



Welcome to the world of TV production. Let's just say it is standards... challenged. They don't typically monitor with a subwoofer and bass management in the control room. So, all kinds of bass creeps into the mix and they never hear it. Very sad. The same is true for many commercials.

Listen to some movies before deciding that the bass is wrong. You can manually change it, but do so in the subwoofer level trim within the Denon menu so that you can always put it back if you need to.



This is purely a personal choice that depends on the circumstances (isolation of your listening room, people sleeping next door, etc.). You may find that you need to change it at different times.

Chris

Thanks Chris!

I assume changing the LFE from 80hz to 120hz won't mess up the Audyssey calibration?

Definitely going to give it some time and watch some movies before changing anything around. Unfortunately my wife (who made fun of me for setting up a tripod to run the Audyssey setup) commented that she heard the bass and didn't like it (we have a 4 month old so she is very sensitive to his sleep habits). So I may need to do something about it but hopefully she will get used to it.

Thanks again.

[audyssey]

Originally Posted by EricScott

Thanks Chris!

I assume changing the LFE from 80hz to 120hz won't mess up the Audyssey calibration?

It will not. MultEQ doesn't even look at that setting.

Definitely going to give it some time and watch some movies before changing anything around. Unfortunately my wife (who made fun of me for setting up a tripod to run the Audyssey setup) commented that she heard the bass and didn't like it (we have a 4 month old so she is very sensitive to his sleep habits). So I may need to do something about it but hopefully she will get used to it.

You may have to turn it down for some TV content and back up to the standard value for DVDs and HD movies. That's why it's best to do that in the Denon menu. Easy to change to exactly the same value.

Chris

[Gary J]

Originally Posted by thrang

Well, I've officially retired Audyssey - Jeff Meier (UMR here on AVS) came by to calibrate my Epson Pro Cinema 1080UB, and thought the sound of my system was subpar (and without recounting too much here, I've done probably a dozen calibrations with my Onkyo 905, being quite careful and following the best practices of this forum.

Jeff has some pretty sophisticated audio test equipment, and found that one of my speakers (the center) was out of phase - an internal wiring issue that he noted is a bit more common than in should be. We fixed that, and then he spent an hour running various tests, tweaking the manual EQ and crossovers, and channel levels, and working quite a bit with my SMS-1 (I patted myself on the back to the extent that he said my sub settings were the best he's seen/heard in any setup he's walked into.) But that was improved as well.

All in all the sound is much better integrated, has much more punch, and is focused much better and with greater clarity than before.

All you are saying is you do not prefer a flat frequency response with a slight roll off at the top to get the same sound as the mixing studio because that is what you got with Audyssey EQ assuming you calibrated correctly.

[Gary J]

Originally Posted by audyssey

You may have to turn it down for some TV content and back up to the standard value for DVDs and HD movies. That's why it's best to do that in the Denon menu. Easy to change to exactly the same value.

Chris

He has the Denon 1909. Should not Dynamic Volume EQ set on Midnight keep the baby happy?

[audyssey]

Originally Posted by Gary J

He has the Denon 1909. Should not Dynamic Volume EQ set on Midnight keep the baby happy?

This is purely a personal preference. So, we recommend to go with the setting that each person finds appropriate at the time they are listening. I find that I use different settings depending on which room I am in and what is happening next door.

Chris

[kdmello]

As I did not get a response last time I am posting again.

Hi All,

While watching TV if someone is sitting on the couch I sit on the carpet (i.e. floor) in front of the couch. Now the question, if I take measurements at ear level in the sitting position on the couch and measurements while sitting on the floor will audyssey make appropriate corrections even though the ear level is different for the floor and couch.

[pepar]

Originally Posted by thrang

Well, I've officially retired Audyssey - Jeff Meier (UMR here on AVS) came by to calibrate my Epson Pro Cinema 1080UB, and thought the sound of my system was subpar (and without recounting too much here, I've done probably a dozen calibrations with my Onkyo 905, being quite careful and following the best practices of this forum.

Jeff has some pretty sophisticated audio test equipment, and found that one of my speakers (the center) was out of phase - an internal wiring issue that he noted is a bit more common than in should be. We fixed that, and then he spent an hour running various tests, tweaking the manual EQ and crossovers, and channel levels, and working quite a bit with my SMS-1 (I patted myself on the back to the extent that he said my sub settings were the best he's seen/heard in any setup he's walked into.) But that was improved as well.

All in all the sound is much better integrated, has much more punch, and is focused much better and with greater clarity than before.

This is the second anti-Audyssey/pro-Jeff Meier post I've seen here and I have to wonder why? And your last post here, thrang, was three months ago about the Penguins and the Rangers. The previous post was two months before that, so it's not like you're a regular. As far as I'm concerned, you are off-topic with your shameless plug. And I apologize to the thread for being off-topic as well, but I felt this needed to be posted.

[thrang]

Originally Posted by Gary J

All you are saying is you do not prefer a flat frequency response with a slight roll off at the top to get the same sound as the mixing studio because that is what you got with Audyssey EQ assuming you calibrated correctly.

Where did I say that?

The response is as flat as the room allows with the manual settings, but the soundfield is much more solid and precise than with Audyssey. And I certainly spent a LOT of time trying to calibrate correctly. I got things better as I learned more here, in terms of mic positioning, sampling locations, blankets on my leather seats, etc., but this manual process has achieved the best results for me by far.

But you need someone with the tools to do it right, I suppose, which Jeff had and is not worth investing in for the few times you might do it yourself (the Sencore audio analyzer cost somewhere between $4,000 and $5,000 I think).

[pepar]

Originally Posted by kdmello

As I did not get a response last time I am posting again.

Hi All,

While watching TV if someone is sitting on the couch I sit on the carpet (i.e. floor) in front of the couch. Now the question, if I take measurements at ear level in the sitting position on the couch and measurements while sitting on the floor will audyssey make appropriate corrections even though the ear level is different for the floor and couch.

I think Chris will be the best person to answer this, but my two rows of seats are different heights and I therefore placed the mic at different levels. True, neither row of seats is on the floor, but I'm going to guess that you should test at those positions.

[thrang]

Originally Posted by pepar

This is the second anti-Audyssey/pro-Jeff Meier post I've seen here and I have to wonder why? And your last post here, thrang, was three months ago about the Penguins and the Rangers. The previous post was two months before that, so it's not like you're a regular. As far as I'm concerned, you are off-topic with your shameless plug. And I apologize to the thread for being off-topic as well, but I felt this needed to be posted.

Well, first - I've posted in many threads here in AVS recently, but I had given up on this particular thread some time back.

Secondly, my point is not about Jeff, but that it may be worth talking to any quality calibrator to explore options. I had called Jeff in only to calibrate my Epson, but he offered to work on the audio after listening to the system, and if I didn't feel it was improved, he wouldn't charge me.

Third, its not a plug anymore than anyone here recommends or warns against products or services to help others. Jeff, or Kevin Miller, or any other respected calibrator have a healthy list of clients and proven track record. I have no relationship with Jeff other than this is the second time I've used his services, and receive no free or discounted service, nor did he ask I post anything on his behalf. So frankly, you're wrong.

Since there are numerous posts from many users here having been frustrated to get Audyssey sounding as good as they'd hoped for, I thought it was the appropriate place to share an alternative experience to help others. Are you saying its not possible to have a better non-Audyssey experience?

[noah katz]

Hi Chris,

"I assume you mean the 2809, right? There is no minimum version. They all ship with Dynamic EQ that turns on right after you run MultEQ."

Actually I meant the 2808, as I didn't even know there was a 2809, but either way the info is just as welcome

Thanks again.

[noah katz]

"All you are saying is you do not prefer a flat frequency response with a slight roll off at the top to get the same sound as the mixing studio because that is what you got with Audyssey EQ assuming you calibrated correctly."

Given the effort that many need to get satisfactory results, and the variety of possible results with differing or even the same mike positions, I think that that statement is a bit overassuming.

[pepar]

Originally Posted by thrang

Well, first - I've posted in many threads here in AVS recently, but I had given up on this particular thread some time back.

Secondly, my point is not about Jeff, but that it may be worth talking to any quality calibrator to explore options. I had called Jeff in only to calibrate my Epson, but he offered to work on the audio after listening to the system, and if I didn't feel it was improved, he wouldn't charge me.

Third, its not a plug anymore than anyone here recommends or warns against products or services to help others. Jeff, or Kevin Miller, or any other respected calibrator have a healthy list of clients and proven track record. I have no relationship with Jeff other than this is the second time I've used his services, and receive no free or discounted service, nor did he ask I post anything on his behalf. So frankly, you're wrong.

Since there are numerous posts from many users here having been frustrated to get Audyssey sounding as good as they'd hoped for, I thought it was the appropriate place to share an alternative experience to help others. Are you saying its not possible to have a better non-Audyssey experience?

Fair enough. There have been and continue to be posts by members frustrated by their Audyssey results. I had a lot of doubts myself about the technology before actually using it and those doubts were fed by the posts of frustrated members. However, my first - and only - setup went smooth, yielded speaker distances that could not have been any closer given the "resolution" of the measurements and has made my home theater sound far better than it ever had. So I know the technology works and works quite well. I do not know why your results were lacking, but most members I've seen posting here eventually do achieve good results with some assistance - usually from Chris (audyssey) - and the willingness to stay with it.

I don't recall any taking a parting shot extolling the virtues of a specific manual calibrator though.

[Gary J]

Originally Posted by noah katz

"All you are saying is you do not prefer a flat frequency response with a slight roll off at the top to get the same sound as the mixing studio because that is what you got with Audyssey EQ assuming you calibrated correctly."

Given the effort that many need to get satisfactory results, and the variety of possible results with differing or even the same mike positions, I think that that statement is a bit overassuming.

Given the number a variables involved would you not expect small differences in the results with the same mike positions? As for differing mike positions I can only assume you have not been following this thread.

[audyssey]

Originally Posted by noah katz

Given the effort that many need to get satisfactory results, and the variety of possible results with differing or even the same mike positions, I think that that statement is a bit overassuming.

Sorry Noah, but I will have to disagree with this statement. For two reasons:

1) If you put the mic in the exact same positions and run MultEQ 100 times you will get exactly the same results. This took months of testing and we have the data to back it up. It was one of the main design elements that went into MultEQ and it had to do with how the algorithm collects data from the room.

2) "Satisfactory results" is an elusive goal. There are objective measures and personal preferences. From the beginning, I have been very clear about what MultEQ is designed to do: It will achieve the target curve that best matches what was used during production. It does so by removing the acoustical problems in your room and applying the target sound that was heard under the acoustical conditions of the dubbing stage/mixing room.

But there are also preferences. People pay a lot of money for their systems and they want them to sound pleasing--even if that deviates from the way the content was mixed.

There is nothing wrong with that and I completely understand it. I don't criticize it, just as I don't expect Audyssey to be criticized for performing according to the stated specifications.

If someone writes to me and says: "MultEQ is not achieving the specified curve", then I jump in and try to figure out why that is. But, if someone says: "I gave up on Audyssey because it didn't sound the way I wanted it to", then they have a fundamental misunderstanding of what MultEQ is supposed to be doing.

But they also need to be aware of what they are giving up when they go down that path. Using a parametric equalizer with 9 bands may give you a rough approximation of the target sound you want, but it gives up a lot including time domain correction filters and hundreds of control points (vs. 9 bands). It all depends on your goals and preferences.

Chris

[noah katz]

"If you put the mic in the exact same positions and run MultEQ 100 times you will get exactly the same results. "

OK. How robust is the repeatability w/small changes in the variables, i.e., where the person is standing in the room while measurements are being taken.

One has to wonder why some people seem to have so much trouble getting good results, but I suppose it could be that, as you say, many are used to poor freq response.

[aaranddeeman]

Many thanks to giomania for the excellent write-up.

I ran Audyssey this afternoon using those steps on my Denon 1909.

After calibration, I found my fronts were set to large, I then changed them to small.

Also the crossover frequencies were set as below

Front : (None initially, 40Hz after changing it to small)
Center : 40Hz
Surr : 60Hz
Surr Bk : 60 Hz
LFE : 80 Hz

My fronts are JBL E80, Center is EC25 and surrounds are E10.

After looking at speaker specs I changed the crossovers as below

Front : 60 HZ
Center : 90 Hz
Surr : 80 Hz
Surr Bk : 80 HZ
LFE : 80 HZ

So here are my questions

1. I have noticed Audyssey always sets my SUB a little to hot (about 3db). So should I reduce the db level on receiver or turn the level nob on the SUB. (With multiple retries of the SUB level knob setting, I have achieved to get close to 0 db level for sub during calibration, so I am reluctant to touch that knob again)
2. By making the changes to crossovers mentioned above, will by calibration be thrown off?
3. I read here that I should set the LFE to 120Hz, should I change it?

Thanks in advance for your responses.