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The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread

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#1 ·
 Pioneer 111FD and 151FD Owner's Manual

111FD Product Brochure

151FD Product Brochure

The Official Pioneer 9G Kuro Settings/Issues Thread

The Official 9G Pioneer General Discussion Thread


9G Elite Reviews

D-Nice's Review of the Pro-111FD

Sound and Vision's Review of the Pro-111FD

Ultimate AV's review of the Pro-111FD

CNet's review of the Pro-111FD



It seems I'm the first to get the PRO-151FD in this forum so I figured I'd start the Thread.


First impressions:


Can notice blacker blacks over 5010. It's hard to tell were the bezel ends with the black bars.


Initial start up is set to performance mode.


While in the menu. Very slight buzz when you put your head behind the set. Can't hear it in front at all. Haven't try TV or video yet but I will before I start break-in.


Update regarding buzz:

While running the break-in disc, I do hear a buzz which does change pitch from dark to light screens, light screens higher pitch, but I have to be 2 to 3 feet from the front to hear it and it's the same as my 5010. My DVR box is louder then the buzz.


Not the brightest backlite remote I've seen. It's a little hard to see if the room is very dark.


I like the menus better then the 5010. I didn't care for the windows xp-ish menus in the 5010.


It has a great tool menu that comes up from the bottom during viewing which you can change settings like picture mode and screen size. Here's the post of the picture. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...4&postcount=10




PRO-111FD/151FD Specs:


- High-Definition 1080p Resolution (1920 x 1080p)


- 50”/60" Diagonal Class / 16:9 Wide-Screen Aspect Ratio


- 1080 Progressive Image Reproduction with ability to accept 480i / 480p / 720p / 1080i / and TRUE 1080p 24fps signals


- New Deeper, Intense Blacks for Unmatched Contrast (5x Previous Generation)


- New Thinner Cosmetic Design with ››Elegant Acrylic Bezel


- New, Improved Optimum Mode. Automatically analyses and adjusts audio and video settings according to specific room light conditions and type of light and color. Program content is also monitored and finely adjusted so movies, sports and news are all faithfully reproduced. Includes OSD with status.


- New External Color Sensor


- Room Light Sensor for automatic picture adjustment adjustment


- PureCinema Smooth Film Motion mode to eliminate motion jutter in 3:2 Pulldown (60Hz) providing natural even playback of content created on film


- 4 Independent HDMI 1.3 inputs with HDMI-CEC control and the ability ››to accept 1080p 24/60Hz signal


- Standard 3:2 (60Hz) and Advanced PureCinema with 3:3 Pulldown (72Hz) for accurate playback of film content


- Fully integrated ATSC and NTSC Tuner with Clear QAM


- Home Media Gallery – offering a multimedia experience to enjoy movies, music and photos through an existing home network or USB memory device


- ISFccc Calibration Ready for professional customization of plasma picture according to personal preferences for contrast, tint, color as well as room conditions for both day and nighttime viewing. Includes:

- Independent Gamma Control (R / G / B) for heightened color ––calibration


- V-Chip Parental Control


- Remote Control – Illuminated / Preset Mode / Learning Mode


- New Advanced Redesigned GUI


- A/V Selection Memory – 10 options for viewing preferences: Optimum / Performance / Sports / Movie / PURE / Game / Standard*/ ISF-Day / ISF-Night / ISF-Auto (PC input: only Standard)


- Aspect Ratio Control – 9 positions: Auto* / Full / “Dot by Dot” / Zoom* / Cinema* / 4:3 / Wide* (only for SD) / Wide1* (only for HD) / Wide2* (only for HD) *Except PC signal


- Advanced Picture-in-Picture (4 positions), Picture-side-Picture for use with Home Media Gallery & Broadcast and Still Picture capability


- After-Image Reduction Function

- Orbiter (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)

- Auto Size (Off/ Natural / Wide-Zoom)

- Side Mask Detection (Mode 1 – for black side masks / Mode 2 – for black & illustrated side masks)

- Side Mask Brightness Sync (Fixed / Auto)

- Video Pattern (White Bar)

- Game Control Preference (AV Selection: only Game) (Off / On)


- Fine Tune Setting for ultimate picture control of color temperature, noise reduction and color management


- Intelligent Mode (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)


- Room Light Sensor & New External Color Sensor (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)
 
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#5,961 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman /forum/post/14736484


Is it true that one can have finer adjustments with ISFccc? Such as with Gamma or other settings?

The standard Interface has gamma presets and the ISFccc Interface actually gives you access to each channel (RGB) on 9 points. Care must be taken when using the 9-Point gamma Controls.
 
#5,962 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliab /forum/post/14736472


Assuming that brightness and contrast are set correctly, there are a number of factors that will influence peak light output readings. Instrumentation, distance at which the measurements are being made, and ambient light are some. As had been the case with Pioneer's 8G panels, these displays will perform within their linear operating range with contrast set as high as 40 - BUT NO MORE. At that setting, I've been able to attain near 38fl @ 100 amplitude via my Photo Research PR-655 at around 8' distance in a darkened environment.


Eliab

This is very true. Attempting to achieve a higher light level with a full raster versus a window does not work linearly.


I have also found the buzzing phenomina to be very bad if you push the light level any higher.
 
#5,963 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by umr /forum/post/14736338


I have found a flaw with the ISFccc PureCinema mode

ahh.. share



That reminds me.. the documentation was lacking in one area for those using the ISFccc Interface (as Jeff found out yesterday, again sorry
) though it was Posted deep in the Forum:

IMPORTANT: The Pioneer ISFccc Interface will timeout and return to Normal Operating Mode (auto END CALIBRATION) after 8 minutes of inactivity/not receiving any commands via the serial port. This is normal and part of the Display's safety mechanisms. WORK-AROUND/TIP - Change a Control Setting, simply Press the small SEND Button next to a Control to resend the current value and/or REFRESH every few minutes. The 8 minute setting cannot be changed in the Display or disabled.
 
#5,964 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe /forum/post/14736687


ahh.. share
....

Advance mode did not function properly in ISFccc creating motion artifacts with a 1080p/24 source. This forces the use of Standard mode which does not have the same capabilities. The same source viewed in Pure mode with Advance was fine while ISFccc using Advance was highly flawed. The software in these displays is complex and each mode has some advantages and negatives.


As Eliab has said the difference in color between ISFccc and Pure is a false argument.


ISFccc is a great mode if you want to lock settings, but it is not a panacea.
 
#5,965 ·
ok thanks, that is the first issue report in regards to Advance with /24 (ISFccc). Investigation time..
 
#5,966 ·
Jeff, I want to confirm something for Pure Cinema which is an assumption many have made and are making even now.


For the Pure Cinema Control (ISFccc), what value for Advance did you use (2 or 3)?


Common mistake is to set Pure Cinema to 3 for Advance (3 is actually Smooth - the values are not the same as in the User Menu).
PURE CINEMA

0 - Off

1 - Standard

2 - Advance

3 - Smooth
Control Translation Tables Here
 
#5,967 ·
Jeff,


It was nice having you over! Jeff calibrated my 151 and repaired my audio set up. Kind of like a detective going through a case he found some errors and took care of them one by one. Anyone considering this process should have a pro come and work on your system. It's a no brainer!


We watched Transformers last night and my system has never, ever sounded better.


Jeff took the time to eq my room and also even out the amplification. Where in the past I would have to crank it up to get the full effect now with volume in that medium range you pick up everything......... My wife is happier as well!


Jeff, thanks again.... You added some years to my Showcase!!!
 
#5,968 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliab
Assuming that brightness and contrast are set correctly, there are a number of factors that will influence peak light output readings. Instrumentation, distance at which the measurements are being made, and ambient light are some. As had been the case with Pioneer's 8G panels, these displays will perform within their linear operating range with contrast set as high as 40 - BUT NO MORE. At that setting, I've been able to attain near 38fl @ 100 amplitude via my Photo Research PR-655 at around 8' distance in a darkened environment.


Eliab
As my current settings are based on the same meter you use, have you attempted to calibrate ISF-Day or ISF-Night with a 100% stimuli white window to 50fL? If you have not, you might want to try as linear performance isn't an issue with the 9G
As a reference, I've attached a calibration sheet based on the setup criteria you listed above.


Also, please do not assume the 9Gs ISFccc modes are identical in performance to the 8Gs. They are not. The 8Gs ISFccc modes are literally carbon copies of Pure mode.

 

111FD151FD_ISFDayCalibrationReport.pdf 178.90625k . file
 

Attachments

#5,969 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe /forum/post/14736863


Jeff, I want to confirm something for Pure Cinema which is an assumption many have made and are making even now.


For the Pure Cinema Control (ISFccc), what value for Advance did you use (2 or 3)?


Common mistake is to set Pure Cinema to 3 for Advance (3 is actually Smooth - the values are not the same as in the User Menu).
PURE CINEMA

0 - Off

1 - Standard

2 - Advance

3 - Smooth
Control Translation Tables Here

I think this is the problem as I've never seen any artifacts on any ISFccc mode using PC Advance. And for the record, I've calibrated 10 9G Elites with the ISFccc modes activated.
 
#5,970 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe /forum/post/14736863


Jeff, I want to confirm something for Pure Cinema which is an assumption many have made and are making even now.


For the Pure Cinema Control (ISFccc), what value for Advance did you use (2 or 3)?


Common mistake is to set Pure Cinema to 3 for Advance (3 is actually Smooth - the values are not the same as in the User Menu).
PURE CINEMA

0 - Off

1 - Standard

2 - Advance

3 - Smooth
Control Translation Tables Here


That makes sense. No wonder it was a mess.
 
#5,971 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by umr /forum/post/14736618


This is very true. Attempting to achieve a higher light level with a full raster versus a window does not work linearly.

Only an inexperienced calibrator would attempt to calibrate a plasma with full field test patterns. Ikeb, is not inexperienced


Quote:
I have also found the buzzing phenomina to be very bad if you push the light level any higher.

I've been conducting tests on the buzzing theory. So far, I would have to disagree with this statement....and this includes using powersave 2.
 
#5,972 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thebarnman /forum/post/14736484


Is it true that one can have finer adjustments with ISFccc? Such as with Gamma or other settings?

With gamma, yes. All other controls have the same range as what is available in the user menu.
 
#5,973 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe /forum/post/14736863


Jeff, I want to confirm something for Pure Cinema which is an assumption many have made and are making even now.


For the Pure Cinema Control (ISFccc), what value for Advance did you use (2 or 3)?


Common mistake is to set Pure Cinema to 3 for Advance (3 is actually Smooth - the values are not the same as in the User Menu).
PURE CINEMA

0 - Off

1 - Standard

2 - Advance

3 - Smooth
Control Translation Tables Here

You need to add these tables to your documentation. I just did it in my copy.
 
#5,974 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by umr /forum/post/14736804


As Eliab has said the difference in color between ISFccc and Pure is a false argument.

There is a luminance difference. Specifically, there is a luminance difference at different saturation levels.
 
#5,976 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice /forum/post/14737010


With gamma, yes. All other controls have the same range as what is available in the user menu.


Couldn't you just tweak your dvd player, raise contrast-brightness- to achieve better gamma? How about power save mode2 and gamma 3? This whole pure mode on hgh seems a little over the top.
 
#5,977 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues /forum/post/14737365


Couldn't you just tweak your dvd player, raise contrast-brightness- to achieve better gamma?

Well, how many DVD players out ther have gamma controls? On top of that, how many DVD players out there have a linear gamma curve. If you can answer those two questions, how many DVD players out there have multi point gamma controls?

Quote:
How about power save mode2 and gamma 3?

Gamma 3 in Pure mode a a 2.1 gamma....regardless of powersave mode.
 
#5,979 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice /forum/post/14737413


Well, how many DVD players out ther have gamma controls? On top of that, how many DVD players out there have a linear gamma curve. If you can answer those two questions, how many DVD players out there have multi point gamma controls?


What i mean is some dvd players have brightness and contrast controls. If you want a little brighter picture than pure mode, would raising brightness or contrast on the player= the gamma tweak you do in isf mode or raise the actual gamma point.
 
#5,980 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonlightmile /forum/post/14736951


Jeff calibrated my 151 and repaired my audio set up.

Thanks for the calibration report. I've included it in the new compined thread (Post#2) linked at the bottom of my post.
 
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