HD syndication ... more on the way

TVOD · 10-22-08, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProTuber

BTW, MPEG-1 audio is preferable to DD when being fed to be recorded and re-encoded at the local station. It will be of better quality as AC-3 audio is really best for only one encode-decode cycle due to its lossy nature.

ABC uses 640K 3/2L AC3 and it sounds OK to me. That will change when they go to their new MPEG4 distribution. MPEG-1 audio - which layer? 2 (aka Musicam)? I don't know if MPEG2 sounds significantly better than 2/0 AC3 at decent bit rates - 320k+. If the audio is 5.1 then AC3, preferably at a high bit rate like 640k, is much better than using multiple MPEG2 stereo streams. The individual MPEG2 stereo streams could sound better but inter-channel timing is an issue (NBC).

mrvideo · 10-23-08, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProTuber

While the audio for the "Making of" special was only stereo, the actual series will have 5.1 audio sent as Dolby E.

I wonder how many stations are actually going to be able to use Dolby-E?

Quote:

BTW, MPEG-1 audio is preferable to DD when being fed to be recorded and re-encoded at the local station. It will be of better quality as AC-3 audio is really best for only one encode-decode cycle due to its lossy nature.

MP2 isn't lossy? News to me. So, you are saying that MP2 survives a decode/recode better than AC3?

If I remember correctly, the MP2 stream was 256kbps. Wouldn't 320kbps be better?

mrvideo · 10-23-08, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVOD

The individual MPEG2 stereo streams could sound better but inter-channel timing is an issue (NBC).

A couple of days ago NBC engineering sent out a quick note that the transition to the new C-band MPEG-4 feed (using the Tandberg RX1290 IRD) has been postponed.

The new IRD is supposed to be more phase accurate than the current TDR-6 transport mode. Our local NBC affiliate knows quite well the problems with phasing problems. Our local forum has had complaints regarding the issue.

And now NBC has postponed going to the more "in-phase" feed. If there was a reason supplied with the engineering note, my source didn't send that along.

mrvideo · 10-23-08, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVOD

ABC uses 640K 3/2L AC3 and it sounds OK to me. That will change when they go to their new MPEG4 distribution.

Have you heard what they will be using instead - Dolby-E?

TVOD · 10-23-08, 01:36 PM

I think ABC will be using the Tandberg phase aligned audio streams with MPEG4. This sounds similar to what NBC is doing except I think ABC will be carrying three HD streams.

mrvideo · 10-23-08, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVOD

I think ABC will be using the Tandberg phase aligned audio streams with MPEG4. This sounds similar to what NBC is doing except I think ABC will be carrying three HD streams.

A little birdie has confirmed what you are saying. Yuck! That probably means that ABC will be using the Tandberg RX1290 IRD as well (it is the one that NBC affiliates received).

Three HD streams is a LOT better than what NBC is doing.

What is so wrong with using Dolby-E? No phase issues using that.

TVOD · 10-23-08, 02:53 PM

No phase issues, but it requires an external decoder. Also if they are using phase aligned MPEG streams, there is a bandwidth savings. I don't know the limitations of this system, but if they were using 256K MPEG2 streams, 4x256K=1024K which is half the bandwidth of Dolby E. Multiply that by 3 and 3Mbs becomes significant with all these streams being muxed. If they allow all channels to be embedded on the HD SDI output, it reduces cost as an external embedder isn't required and wiring is simplified. Even at 320K per channel, it's still only 1.28Mbs which is just over half the 2.2 Mbs needed for Dolby E.

It seems there are still many CBS and CW stations not using their 5.1 Dolby E stream. From what I've read CBS planning to stick with MPEG2 but will move to DVB-S2 and mux two 40Mbs network streams on a transponder.

bdfox18doe · 10-23-08, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvideo

What is so wrong with using Dolby-E? No phase issues using that.

Simple. Cost.

ProTuber · 10-24-08, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvideo

MP2 isn't lossy? News to me. So, you are saying that MP2 survives a decode/recode better than AC3?

Yes it's true MP2 is also lossy (perhaps poor choice of words on my part originally). Several papers I've seen indicate MPEG-1 Layer II at 256K is suitable for 5 or so multiple encode/decode cycles in distribution/contribution applications, whereas AC3 was originally designed as a one-time transmission codec although it is unclear whether only 2 encode/decodes would actually be audible especially if the satellite distribution used a higher bitrate (640K).

Marcus Carr · 10-24-08, 04:17 AM

Two and a Half Men is in HD on WUTB.

mrvideo · 10-24-08, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVOD

It seems there are still many CBS and CW stations not using their 5.1 Dolby E stream. From what I've read CBS [is] planning to stick with MPEG2 but will move to DVB-S2 and mux two 40Mbs network streams on a transponder.

Interesting. If a CBS affiliate isn't using the Dolby-E and they are doing DD5.1, then they are faking it, as CBS only feeds Dolby-E and MP2. OTOH, CBS's TOC is feeding The CW with Dolby-E, DD5.1, DD2.0 and MP2 streams.

What is interesting with the CW is that the documentation regarding the audio streams has it wrong. Each release has it wrong

I wonder why CBS is sticking with MPEG-2. Cost?

mrvideo · 10-24-08, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProTuber

While the audio for the "Making of" special was only stereo, the actual series will have 5.1 audio sent as Dolby E.

Confirmed. Audio stream 1 will be MP2 and stream 2 will be Dolby-E.

videojanitor · 10-25-08, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvideo

I watched the "Making of a Legend" special for the series (hosted by Lucy Lawless) and it is looking good.

I just watched this OTA, and thought the PQ was outstanding. The combination of spectacular locations and costumes that are finely detailed really makes for some great looking HD. I don't know if it's the best looking TV show I've ever seen, but it's way up there.

Marcus Carr · 10-27-08, 03:08 AM

Stargate: Atlantis is in HD on WNUV.

Marcus Carr · 10-28-08, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Carr

Stargate: Atlantis is in HD on WNUV.

And so is House of Payne.

ENDContra · 10-28-08, 08:51 AM

OP, any chance you could update the first post to include a list of what syndicated shows are available in HD? Sorry if its already here, buried in the thread somewhere, but a quick one-stop list would be helpful.

ProTuber · 10-29-08, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENDContra

OP, any chance you could update the first post to include a list of what syndicated shows are available in HD? Sorry if its already here, buried in the thread somewhere, but a quick one-stop list would be helpful.

Already exists in the sticky "The Official AVS HDTV Programming Synopsis - Fall 2008!" http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=164671

"Syndicated" is sorted alphabetically between Starz-HD and TBS-HD and currently contains:

Syndicated HDTV Programs
Available on local DTV stations across the country, syndicated HD programs are typically game shows, talk shows, and reruns of network sitcoms and dramas. Theatrical films and first run dramas have also been available.
-Jeopardy
-Two And A Half Men
-Wheel of Fortune
-Everybody Loves Raymond
-Seinfeld
Sony Pictures syndicated sit-com is available in HD, as all 180 episodes are in the process of being transferred. First sighting was on TBS HD, 9/2/08, with the 4:3 image zoomed in to fill the 16:9 image area.
-Ellen DeGeneres Show
-Oprah
-Dr. Phil
-Entertainment Tonight
-The Insider
-CSI: NY
-CSI: Miami
-Lost
-Tyler Perry's House of Payne
-Desperate Housewives
-Stargate Atlantis
Coming Soon:
-Legend of the Seeker - November 1, 2008
-Boston Legal

tigerfan33 · 10-29-08, 08:19 AM

I watched a episode of "Frazier" on Lifetime hd last night. It was in hd and a 2004 episode. The early years of the show have been stretched on Lifetime hd.

hdtvfan2005 · 10-31-08, 02:52 AM

KUSI also has Stargate in 720p but Time Warner San Diego doesn't have it yet. Cox does but not TWC. They should hopefully add it within the next 2 to 3 weeks.

Marcus Carr · 11-02-08, 01:36 AM

American Chopper is in HD on WBFF.

nickdawg · 11-02-08, 02:29 AM

Isn't WBFF a local station? Why is American Chopper now on a local affiliate?

Charles O · 11-02-08, 08:30 AM

The older episodes are now in syndex, it's on KIKU Honolulu as well...but they don't do HD.

Desert Hawk · 11-02-08, 08:02 PM

Here in Bakersfield we have ZERO ZIP NADA HD syndication! This is an extremely backward market. None of our local stations can record and playback syndicated shows in HD. It totally sucks!

ProTuber · 11-11-08, 11:36 PM

Announced on today's show (Tues, Nov 11) - Live with Regis and Kelly goes HD on Monday, January 5, 2009.

kucharsk · 11-12-08, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvideo

A couple of days ago NBC engineering sent out a quick note that the transition to the new C-band MPEG-4 feed (using the Tandberg RX1290 IRD) has been postponed.

The new IRD is supposed to be more phase accurate than the current TDR-6 transport mode. Our local NBC affiliate knows quite well the problems with phasing problems. Our local forum has had complaints regarding the issue.

And now NBC has postponed going to the more "in-phase" feed. If there was a reason supplied with the engineering note, my source didn't send that along.

I would expect money.

If NBC's paying for the new IRD, they probably don't have the cash, and if stations are paying, they don't.

Either way, I suspect financial conditions are the rationale.

hdtvfan2005 · 11-12-08, 02:45 AM

XHDTV is airing American Chopper in syndicated form but no HD. They are in the process of adding a digital transmitter in Cerro Bola on their Analog mast. They should have the DT signal by no later than 2.17.09. No word on when an HD signal will air but if they go HD it will just be for MNTV programming. They are the areas MNTV affiliate licensed in Tecate, Mexico.

hdtvfan2005 · 11-12-08, 02:47 AM

As for HD syndication. Only KFMB and KUSI have the proper equipment to syndicate shows in HD. XETV I have no idea. KNSD who knows as well. Same with KSWB. KSWB is owned by Tribune. Maybe next year from them in regards to HD syndication.

mp3trojan · 11-12-08, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProTuber

Announced on today's show (Tues, Nov 11) - Live with Regis and Kelly goes HD on Monday, January 5, 2009.

I'll take the under on the fox stations carrying this show. ESPECIALLY KDFW

Marcus Carr · 11-12-08, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProTuber

Announced on today's show (Tues, Nov 11) - Live with Regis and Kelly goes HD on Monday, January 5, 2009.

Great, another show for WBAL not to show in HD, along with Oprah and Ellen.

aemeeich · 11-12-08, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mp3trojan

I'll take the under on the fox stations carrying this show. ESPECIALLY KDFW

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Carr

Great, another show for WBAL not to show in HD, along with Oprah and Ellen.

Regis is syndicated, however, it is sent out over satellite and taken to air live at most stations, hence the title "Live With Regis and Kelly". The actual live filming/airing is at 9am eastern/8am central. It is delayed on Regis' end and replayed over satellite again at 10am eastern/9am central. If Regis puts in the equipment on their end to delay and replay in HD (which I assume they will since most stations take the delayed airing) your local station will be able to take the HD feed, since this is alot easier than recording and playing back on the station's end.

On a side note, by the time the analog shutoff happens, I have a feeling many more stations will have the ability to delay HD locally. The main hang-up now for many stations is having to manage two separate signal chains throughout the station. Once they are down to a single signal chain it will be much simpler to install and manage the equipment to delay HD programming.

10-23-08, 01:36 PM	#275 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
TVOD AVS Special Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 3,778	I think ABC will be using the Tandberg phase aligned audio streams with MPEG4. This sounds similar to what NBC is doing except I think ABC will be carrying three HD streams.

10-23-08, 02:53 PM	#277 \| Link
TVOD AVS Special Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 3,778	No phase issues, but it requires an external decoder. Also if they are using phase aligned MPEG streams, there is a bandwidth savings. I don't know the limitations of this system, but if they were using 256K MPEG2 streams, 4x256K=1024K which is half the bandwidth of Dolby E. Multiply that by 3 and 3Mbs becomes significant with all these streams being muxed. If they allow all channels to be embedded on the HD SDI output, it reduces cost as an external embedder isn't required and wiring is simplified. Even at 320K per channel, it's still only 1.28Mbs which is just over half the 2.2 Mbs needed for Dolby E. It seems there are still many CBS and CW stations not using their 5.1 Dolby E stream. From what I've read CBS planning to stick with MPEG2 but will move to DVB-S2 and mux two 40Mbs network streams on a transponder. Last edited by TVOD; 10-23-08 at 03:05 PM..

10-24-08, 04:17 AM	#280 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
Marcus Carr HDTVangelist Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Baltimore City Posts: 6,550	Two and a Half Men is in HD on WUTB. __________________ YOU ARE READING AVS FORUM

10-27-08, 03:08 AM	#284 \| Link
Marcus Carr HDTVangelist Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Baltimore City Posts: 6,550	Stargate: Atlantis is in HD on WNUV. __________________ YOU ARE READING AVS FORUM

11-02-08, 01:36 AM	#290 \| Link
Marcus Carr HDTVangelist Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Baltimore City Posts: 6,550	American Chopper is in HD on WBFF. __________________ YOU ARE READING AVS FORUM

10-28-08, 08:51 AM	#286 \| Link
ENDContra Advanced Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 929	OP, any chance you could update the first post to include a list of what syndicated shows are available in HD? Sorry if its already here, buried in the thread somewhere, but a quick one-stop list would be helpful.

10-29-08, 08:19 AM	#288 \| Link
tigerfan33 Advanced Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 501	I watched a episode of "Frazier" on Lifetime hd last night. It was in hd and a 2004 episode. The early years of the show have been stretched on Lifetime hd.

10-31-08, 02:52 AM	#289 \| Link
hdtvfan2005 I hate snipes! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Some very hot and dry place. Posts: 1,281	KUSI also has Stargate in 720p but Time Warner San Diego doesn't have it yet. Cox does but not TWC. They should hopefully add it within the next 2 to 3 weeks.

11-02-08, 02:29 AM	#291 \| Link
nickdawg 40 Ounce Casualty Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: a place where the HD OTA is just riiight!! Posts: 3,897	Isn't WBFF a local station? Why is American Chopper now on a local affiliate?

11-02-08, 08:30 AM	#292 \| Link
Charles O Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Peoria, Arizona Posts: 600	The older episodes are now in syndex, it's on KIKU Honolulu as well...but they don't do HD.

11-02-08, 08:02 PM	#293 \| Link
Desert Hawk Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bakersfield California Posts: 431	Here in Bakersfield we have ZERO ZIP NADA HD syndication! This is an extremely backward market. None of our local stations can record and playback syndicated shows in HD. It totally sucks!

11-11-08, 11:36 PM	#294 \| Link
ProTuber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Glenville, NY Posts: 186	Announced on today's show (Tues, Nov 11) - Live with Regis and Kelly goes HD on Monday, January 5, 2009.

11-12-08, 02:45 AM	#296 \| Link
hdtvfan2005 I hate snipes! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Some very hot and dry place. Posts: 1,281	XHDTV is airing American Chopper in syndicated form but no HD. They are in the process of adding a digital transmitter in Cerro Bola on their Analog mast. They should have the DT signal by no later than 2.17.09. No word on when an HD signal will air but if they go HD it will just be for MNTV programming. They are the areas MNTV affiliate licensed in Tecate, Mexico.

11-12-08, 02:47 AM	#297 \| Link
hdtvfan2005 I hate snipes! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Some very hot and dry place. Posts: 1,281	As for HD syndication. Only KFMB and KUSI have the proper equipment to syndicate shows in HD. XETV I have no idea. KNSD who knows as well. Same with KSWB. KSWB is owned by Tribune. Maybe next year from them in regards to HD syndication.