AVS Forum banner

The Official Pioneer 9G Elite KURO Owner's Discussion Thread

3M views 32K replies 2K participants last post by  smsiwan 
#1 ·
 Pioneer 111FD and 151FD Owner's Manual

111FD Product Brochure

151FD Product Brochure

The Official Pioneer 9G Kuro Settings/Issues Thread

The Official 9G Pioneer General Discussion Thread


9G Elite Reviews

D-Nice's Review of the Pro-111FD

Sound and Vision's Review of the Pro-111FD

Ultimate AV's review of the Pro-111FD

CNet's review of the Pro-111FD



It seems I'm the first to get the PRO-151FD in this forum so I figured I'd start the Thread.


First impressions:


Can notice blacker blacks over 5010. It's hard to tell were the bezel ends with the black bars.


Initial start up is set to performance mode.


While in the menu. Very slight buzz when you put your head behind the set. Can't hear it in front at all. Haven't try TV or video yet but I will before I start break-in.


Update regarding buzz:

While running the break-in disc, I do hear a buzz which does change pitch from dark to light screens, light screens higher pitch, but I have to be 2 to 3 feet from the front to hear it and it's the same as my 5010. My DVR box is louder then the buzz.


Not the brightest backlite remote I've seen. It's a little hard to see if the room is very dark.


I like the menus better then the 5010. I didn't care for the windows xp-ish menus in the 5010.


It has a great tool menu that comes up from the bottom during viewing which you can change settings like picture mode and screen size. Here's the post of the picture. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...4&postcount=10




PRO-111FD/151FD Specs:


- High-Definition 1080p Resolution (1920 x 1080p)


- 50”/60" Diagonal Class / 16:9 Wide-Screen Aspect Ratio


- 1080 Progressive Image Reproduction with ability to accept 480i / 480p / 720p / 1080i / and TRUE 1080p 24fps signals


- New Deeper, Intense Blacks for Unmatched Contrast (5x Previous Generation)


- New Thinner Cosmetic Design with ››Elegant Acrylic Bezel


- New, Improved Optimum Mode. Automatically analyses and adjusts audio and video settings according to specific room light conditions and type of light and color. Program content is also monitored and finely adjusted so movies, sports and news are all faithfully reproduced. Includes OSD with status.


- New External Color Sensor


- Room Light Sensor for automatic picture adjustment adjustment


- PureCinema Smooth Film Motion mode to eliminate motion jutter in 3:2 Pulldown (60Hz) providing natural even playback of content created on film


- 4 Independent HDMI 1.3 inputs with HDMI-CEC control and the ability ››to accept 1080p 24/60Hz signal


- Standard 3:2 (60Hz) and Advanced PureCinema with 3:3 Pulldown (72Hz) for accurate playback of film content


- Fully integrated ATSC and NTSC Tuner with Clear QAM


- Home Media Gallery – offering a multimedia experience to enjoy movies, music and photos through an existing home network or USB memory device


- ISFccc Calibration Ready for professional customization of plasma picture according to personal preferences for contrast, tint, color as well as room conditions for both day and nighttime viewing. Includes:

- Independent Gamma Control (R / G / B) for heightened color ––calibration


- V-Chip Parental Control


- Remote Control – Illuminated / Preset Mode / Learning Mode


- New Advanced Redesigned GUI


- A/V Selection Memory – 10 options for viewing preferences: Optimum / Performance / Sports / Movie / PURE / Game / Standard*/ ISF-Day / ISF-Night / ISF-Auto (PC input: only Standard)


- Aspect Ratio Control – 9 positions: Auto* / Full / “Dot by Dot” / Zoom* / Cinema* / 4:3 / Wide* (only for SD) / Wide1* (only for HD) / Wide2* (only for HD) *Except PC signal


- Advanced Picture-in-Picture (4 positions), Picture-side-Picture for use with Home Media Gallery & Broadcast and Still Picture capability


- After-Image Reduction Function

- Orbiter (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)

- Auto Size (Off/ Natural / Wide-Zoom)

- Side Mask Detection (Mode 1 – for black side masks / Mode 2 – for black & illustrated side masks)

- Side Mask Brightness Sync (Fixed / Auto)

- Video Pattern (White Bar)

- Game Control Preference (AV Selection: only Game) (Off / On)


- Fine Tune Setting for ultimate picture control of color temperature, noise reduction and color management


- Intelligent Mode (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)


- Room Light Sensor & New External Color Sensor (Off / Mode 1 / Mode 2)
 
See less See more
#14,421 ·
For those getting pixelation, pop in a Blueray and see if the pixelation is still there, if it is not, then you know it is the broadcast. I have no pixelation when watching Blurays on my 151.
 
#14,422 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by crowtoo /forum/post/16104498


These 2 statements seem to be in conflict. I was under the impression that FIOS passed along the signal exactly as they received it.


So either, FIOS does not pass along the original signal, or CBS sends out a compressed or otherwise altered signal, which FIOS just passes along.


For the record I have been noticing the same "snow"/"pixelation" or whatever you want to call it in fast scenes during the NCAA's as well. My guess would be that it has to do with the equipment being used on site or in the remote transmission process. All footage from the studio or even during the HD commercials look great, even with fast motion. Perhaps they are using inferior HD cameras at the sites or stepping on the footage either prior to or during transmission from the local arenas.


Whatever the reason, I'm very disappointed. I just got my 151 up and running 2 weeks ago and I was looking forward to the NCAA's in HD so much that I actually took off work Thursday and Friday afternoon just to be able to finally watch them in all their HiDef glory.
I guess I'll just have to wait until football season to see what HiDef and my 151 is capable of.


Chris
crowtoo@earthlink.net

The statements are not necessarily contradictory. CBS may be sending a pristine signal to the local stations but those stations can be changing what they get in the CBS feed by compressing it (so they can carry the allowed alternate channels) or doing other things to it. What you get through FiOS is the local station signal which is made available to FiOS, not the CBS network source feed. They could be the same and they could be very different.
 
#14,423 ·
Hey all, I pulled the trigger on a new PRO-111FD this weekend. This is the tv I've wanted for a while, but never thought I would get. I found an extremely good deal that I couldn't pass up.


Anyway, after only having it a few days, I really like the Optimum setting for HD and SD TV. As for movies, I've only watched a couple. I don't have a blu-ray player yet, but last night I watched tears of the son on DVD and it looked amazing on the Performance setting. The contrast between the darkness and the bright green jungle was awesome. I still need to do a lot of tweaking to see what I like best. I haven't done any kind of calibration yet. So far, I love it!!
 
#14,424 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits /forum/post/16101895


If you post your impressions of the results that you got from your professional calibration, I'll include it in the flat panel (Post#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post. I'm sure there are a lot of folks that will be interested in what you report.

My picture is a lot brighter now and specially DVDs look much nicer. Previously, I was using my Oppo 980 as a transport and upconvert was taking place in my Onkyo NR-906. I somehow assumed Reon would be the better upconverter. When Jeff compared Reon and PS3, it turned out that PS3 was in fact better than NR-906 to my amazement. There is day-and-night difference in my DVD picture after his calibration. I never saw an Oppo 983, but I am having a hard time to imagine how much better can it be than the PS3.


In high-def satellite TV, it again turned out that 111 had a better scaler than 906, so we switched that around. Jeff also shut down Edge Enhancement as it was creating a lot of noise.


Blu-ray is well blu-ray, not much change there other than things are brighter now.


I must emphasize my color accuracy was almost perfect out-of-box, so many other less fortunate folks will have a lot more significant difference in their post-calibration picture.


I had much drastic improvement in my sound. Before I had no bass, localized surrounds, and an inaudible center channel and I was extremely unhappy with my sound. Now it is the exact opposite. There is a day-and-night difference.


I will scan the official calibration report tonight. I am not sure how to interpret all those charts, so if anyone can throw some light, I will in fact appreciate.
 
#14,425 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtySouth /forum/post/16104806


Hey all, I pulled the trigger on a new PRO-111FD this weekend. This is the tv I've wanted for a while, but never thought I would get. I found an extremely good deal that I couldn't pass up.


Anyway, after only having it a few days, I really like the Optimum setting for HD and SD TV. As for movies, I've only watched a couple. I don't have a blu-ray player yet, but last night I watched tears of the son on DVD and it looked amazing on the Performance setting. The contrast between the darkness and the bright green jungle was awesome. I still need to do a lot of tweaking to see what I like best. I haven't done any kind of calibration yet. So far, I love it!!

any buzz?
 
#14,426 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues /forum/post/16103641


Pure mode is the most accurate and that's a fact. But i will guess you watch with alot of lights or have alot of lighting in the room and prefer something like sport

I've never disagreed that Pure is the most "accurate". I agree that it is, however the fact that its "accurate" is entirely irrelevant to my viewing experience (and I suspect the majority of people) .


The question is which AV mode provides the best viewing experience for me and my family (and many others based on the posts in this thread). Here's the rankings I had for my 151 with D-Nice settings that I posted a few pages back that kinda started this discussion.

Quote:
I used D-nice's settings for ISF Day and Night and activated ISF Auto as well for the key inputs I plan on using. I'll calibrate more inputs over time as needed. I'm VERY pleased with the results. Here's the order of preferred viewing that my wife and I agreed would provide the best picture during a BRIGHT DAY and while watching HD cable (National Geographic). Different settings might be better for different video such as a blu-ray or if I were watching a night. The modes are listed from best to worst for our viewing experience.

1. ISF Auto or Optimum (I'm using the color/light sensor and have the sensor mode set to 2).

2. ISF Day

3. Performance

4. ISF Night

5. Standard

6. Sport

7. Game

8. Movie

9. Pure (using D-nice's settings after full break-in)

I find it somewhat entertaining that so many AVSers might struggle with the fact that viewing a video "acurrately" might also s*ck from the perspective of everyday viewing for most people.
 
#14,427 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by heatwave3
While the user cannot directly change grayscale of colorspace without Controlcal, they can certainly make other adjustments to the picture. Can changes to the picture through the Elite user-enabled capabilities effect grayscale or colorspace in any way?


If so, than changes made by the user before the Pre-calibration settings could either help or hurt the picture vs out-of-the-box settings. In which case, we'll never know if the calibration did anything more than take the panel back to the original settings (unless he kept a record of those original settings) or make a real difference vs the actual factory settings.


How much of a professional calibration is really just trying to correct for bad adjustments made by the user before the professional calibration vs optimizing the original factory settings. I would be very interested to see a report or hear the findings of a professional calibration made to a panel that exactly followed the Break-in steps and settings set out by D-nice vs an out-of-the-box panel.


In the absence of a professional calibration post-D-nice's procedures by others, its really not possible to refute D-nice's conclusions that he made after professionally calibrating multiple panels to arrive at the settings he's posted.



The end user has full control over the Grayscale and Color Space in the user menu. There are RGB HIGH and LOW controls for the Grayscale and full CMS controls for Color Space.


The calibration report that I posted earlier was in fact comparing the Pure mode vs. the calibrated ISF Night mode using ControlCAL. To be clear the Pre Calibration reports shows the Pure mode with changes made using settings from AVS.


Here are some other reports.


Report 1

Pre Cal (Pure Mode w/ AVS settings)

Post Cal (ISF Night Mode using a Minolta CS-200 with Progressive Labs Calibration Software and ControlCAL)


Report 2

Pre Cal (Uncalibrated ISF Night Mode - factory settings)

Post Cal (Calibrated ISF Night Mode using a Minolta CS-200 with Progressive Labs Calibration Software and ControlCAL)


Report 3

Pre Cal (Pure Mode with settings from AVS)

Post Cal (After I calibrated the Pure Mode using a Minolta CS-200 with Progressive Labs Calibration Software)

 

Report 3.pdf 226.1689453125k . file

 

Report 2.pdf 230.0703125k . file

 

Report 1.pdf 227.84375k . file
 

Attachments

#14,429 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTMav /forum/post/16103800


I can speak from experience that adjusting those gamma settings slightly (-1) has a significant impact. After using D-Nice settings in Pure as well as accessing the ISFccc settings I prefer ISFccc day. I have a fairly bright room and with those settings the 151 is more than bright enough, no red or green push, just a natural and, to my eyes, accurate picture.


YMMV

I definitely agree with JTMav. In fact for nighttime viewing, the D-Nice settings for ISFccc Night mode are excellent, even in a very dark room and far better than Pure or Movie mode to my eyes.
 
#14,430 ·
I assume by Pure mode settings from AVS you mean D-Nice's? If so, D-nice goes to great lengths to state that his settings are only appropriate if they following his break-in steps to the letter. Unless the user did these break-in steps (which he stated he did not), he could have just as easily moved the panel further from a calibrated Pure mode as he did closer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Evans /forum/post/16105018


The end user has full control over the Grayscale and Color Space in the user menu. There are RGB HIGH and LOW controls for the Grayscale and full CMS controls for Color Space.


The calibration report that I posted earlier was in fact comparing the Pure mode vs. the calibrated ISF Night mode using ControlCAL. To be clear the Pre Calibration reports shows the Pure mode with changes made using settings from AVS.


Here are some other reports.


Report 1

Pre Cal (Pure Mode w/ AVS settings)

Post Cal (ISF Night Mode using a Minolta CS-200 with Progressive Labs Calibration Software and ControlCAL)


Report 2

Pre Cal (Uncalibrated ISF Night Mode - factory settings)

Post Cal (Calibrated ISF Night Mode using a Minolta CS-200 with Progressive Labs Calibration Software and ControlCAL)


Report 3

Pre Cal (Pure Mode with settings from AVS)

Post Cal (After I calibrated the Pure Mode using a Minolta CS-200 with Progressive Labs Calibration Software)
 
#14,437 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie /forum/post/16104916


When Jeff Meier (UMR) compared Reon and PS3, it turned out that PS3 was in fact better than NR-906 to my amazement.

Thanks for your calibration report. I've included it in the flat panel (Post #2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.


Enjoy -- especially that audio.
 
#14,438 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROMAN O /forum/post/16105395


Pretty sure he was talking about Pioneer Plasma's going away.

Right. And, as the biggest home electronics chain in the US (world?), BB's staff training has made it's own contribution to Pioneer's departure. Today's news is just another aspect of that training.



As far as whatever else BB is "authorized" to sell from Pioneer, only time will tell. The trend doesn't encourage me.


Thanks to you Roman, I should be set for life with our 60" Kuro.
 
#14,439 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson /forum/post/16105440


Not true, I certainly did do the break-in , exactly per D-Nice's instructions.

I think it's about time I intervened in this convo....


The settings I posted for the 151FD are for plus green 151FD sets (roughly 94% of all 151FDs out there) and were created with a PR-655 (your calibrator knows the performance of this particular spectroradiometer) using CalMAN and ControlCAL. Based on your pre-cal chart, you did not have a plus green set (that's why your grayscale was 4500K before calibration).


When I posted those settings, I specifically said that the majority of the 151FDs were plus green and there were a few 151FDs that were plus red (plus red is the normal/typical pre cal grayscale before calibration). I went into detail as to how that happened in the manufacturing process of the 151FDs. I also said that if your set look too red after you applied those settings, you should NOT use them and try the 111FD settings instead.


Now on to this BS about set variance.....


I can say with confidence that I know more about how Pioneer sets perform and are manufactured than any other calibrator in North America. To say that there could be a 10% variance on an Elite is technically BS in my book. I have found that other calibrators tend say that when they apply more emphasis on the duds that can, and do, slip by QA when they are sleeping... or... attempt to apply CRT/DLP/LCoS manufacturing processes. Speaking on the prior, we talking about
 
#14,440 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice /forum/post/16105709


I think it's about time I intervened in this convo....


The settings I posted for the 151FD are for plus green 151FD sets (roughly 94% of all 151FDs out there) and were created with a PR-655 (your calibrator knows the performance of this particular spectroradiometer) using CalMAN and ControlCAL. Based on your pre-cal chart, you did not have a plus green set (that's why your grayscale was 4500K before calibration).


When I posted those settings, I specifically said that the majority of the 151FDs were plus green and there were a few 151FDs that were plus red (plus red is the normal/typical pre cal grayscale before calibration). I went into detail as to how that happened in the manufacturing process of the 151FDs. I also said that if your set look too red after you applied those settings, you should NOT use them and try the 111FD settings instead.


Now on to this BS about set variance.....


I can say with confidence that I know more about how Pioneer sets perform and are manufactured than any other calibrator in North America. To say that there could be a 10% variance on an Elite is technically BS in my book. I have found that other calibrators tend say that when they apply more emphasis on the duds that can, and do, slip by QA when they are sleeping... or... attempt to apply CRT/DLP/LCoS manufacturing processes. Speaking on the prior, we talking about
 
Top