Fargo, ND - HDTV

[puck71]

Wonder if they're trying to add a bunch of channels in a hurry to compete with Midco. As far as I can tell, Midco costs pretty much the exact same, but has these HD channels in addition to what CableOne has:

AMC HD
Big Ten Network HD
CNN HD
Fox News Channel HD
Golf Channel HD
HDNet
HDNet Movies
MLB HD
NFL Network HD
Palladia
SPEED HD
The Weather Channel HD
Universal HD
Versus HD

So even if you take SPEED off that list, CableOne is still 13 behind...

[solter]

I built this antenna a while back and last night I decided to added the mesh wire on the back and to try and get it setup and pointed to the correct location ... fyi I live in south fargo past 32nd ave



I believe I have it pointed in the correct location according to antennaweb.org ... I took readings facing my antenna one way and then 180 the other way ... here are my results

• Description, Channel, Facing NW, Facing SE
• cbs, 4-1, 87, 45
• abc, 6-1, 100, 100
• cw, 6-2, 100, 100
• wth, 6-3, 100, 100
• nbc, 11-1, 84, 50
• pbs, 13-1, 25, 77
• pbs, 13-2, 36, 77
• pbs, 13-3, 33, 77
• pbs, 13-4, 38, 77
• fox, 15-1, 92, 100

I am very happy with the results with it facing NW ... to me it is perfect, but my kids would be upset if they could not watch their pbs programming after school, so my question is ...

Would an amp of some sort be enough to boost those lower strengths on pbs or do I need to redo my antenna?

Thoughts or suggestions

[sehli]

Hi All,

Been a while since I have visited this forum. Just curious about PPS 13.1. I cannot seem to get it over the air. NBC, CBS, FOX, ABC all come in great OTA. I did a re-scan with my Dish Network DVR and it is picking up the channel information, but no signal. Any ideas? I have the antenna pointed directly at the tower based on Antenna Web's information.

Thanks

[egftechman]

Originally Posted by sehli

Hi All,

Been a while since I have visited this forum. Just curious about PPS 13.1. I cannot seem to get it over the air. NBC, CBS, FOX, ABC all come in great OTA. I did a re-scan with my Dish Network DVR and it is picking up the channel information, but no signal. Any ideas? I have the antenna pointed directly at the tower based on Antenna Web's information.

Thanks

KFME-DT (13.1,2,3,4) is transmitted on VHF channel 13, the other signals are UHF (KVRR is on 19, WDAY is on 21, KXJB is on 38, KVLY is on 44) - you're going to need an antenna with about 1 foot elements (which is a 1/4 wave at channel 13) to receive KFME

[solter]

Is there plans for KFME to go back to uhf?

[puck71]

Originally Posted by sehli

Hi All,

Been a while since I have visited this forum. Just curious about PPS 13.1. I cannot seem to get it over the air. NBC, CBS, FOX, ABC all come in great OTA. I did a re-scan with my Dish Network DVR and it is picking up the channel information, but no signal. Any ideas? I have the antenna pointed directly at the tower based on Antenna Web's information.

Thanks

Dish Network offers Fargo locals in HD now right? So you shouldn't need the antenna?

[egftechman]

Originally Posted by solter

Is there plans for KFME to go back to uhf?

I wouldn't think so since they chose 13 as their post-transition signal instead of their pre-transition signal on 23, although many stations are regretting moving back to VHF, see http://www.rabbitears.info/vhf.php "VHF Nightmares" page.

[solter]

egftechman,

you think an amp along my line before my splitter help with signal at all?

[egftechman]

Originally Posted by solter

I built this antenna a while back and last night I decided to added the mesh wire on the back and to try and get it setup and pointed to the correct location ... fyi I live in south fargo past 32nd ave



I believe I have it pointed in the correct location according to antennaweb.org ... I took readings facing my antenna one way and then 180 the other way ... here are my results

• Description, Channel, Facing NW, Facing SE
• cbs, 4-1, 87, 45
• abc, 6-1, 100, 100
• cw, 6-2, 100, 100
• wth, 6-3, 100, 100
• nbc, 11-1, 84, 50
• pbs, 13-1, 25, 77
• pbs, 13-2, 36, 77
• pbs, 13-3, 33, 77
• pbs, 13-4, 38, 77
• fox, 15-1, 92, 100

I am very happy with the results with it facing NW ... to me it is perfect, but my kids would be upset if they could not watch their pbs programming after school, so my question is ...

Would an amp of some sort be enough to boost those lower strengths on pbs or do I need to redo my antenna?

Thoughts or suggestions

You'll need an antenna with larger elements to receive the VHF signal from PPTV, or pressure PPTV to put a UHF signal in Fargo - perhaps move KFGE-DT 15 to the Rollag area?

[solter]

thanks for info

[egftechman]

Originally Posted by solter

egftechman,

you think an amp along my line before my splitter help with signal at all?

Since you have a signal, an amp will increase the signal you have (it will also amplify noise), and probably make it viewable with little dropouts - an amp isn't a solution for getting a signal when you have almost none.

[hotdogs]

I noticed as I'm watching the Vikings/Rams game that the KBRR ID is incorrect. It shows:

KVRR Fargo-Moorhead
KJRR Jamestown
KBRR Euclid

KBRR's DTV transmitter is in Euclid (north of Crookston, between Grand Forks and Thief River Falls), but it's still licensed to Thief River Falls. Pre-DTV when their analog stick was still near TRF (which had a weak analog signal into GF, but is the strongest GF DTV signal now) the ID was "KBRR Thief River Falls-Grand Forks" which is legal as long as there isn't anything between the call letters and city of license (you can have stuff before and after it)

KNRR is silent so they don't have to ID that right now.

I've also noticed a lot of stations that moved back to VHF after the DTV transition have applied for fill-in translators (that cover the main city in the market) on the pre-transition UHF DTV channel to help with signal issues on UHF only antennas.

[DirectorFlik]

The legal ID is about to be changed again. There was a mis-understanding about the licensed location when it was modified. It will soon say Thief River Falls again. KNRR will also be lighting back up very very soon.

[corman]

DirectorFlik,

Any word on when KBRR will have an HD feed?

[puck71]

Saw a bunch of Midco trucks in my neighborhood last night and this morning. Hopefully I'll be able to try them out soon!

[egftechman]

Originally Posted by corman

DirectorFlik,

Any word on when KBRR will have an HD feed?

Interesting that this was the topic of the KNOX roundtable today and many people calling in angry that they can't see the Vikes in HD in the grand forks area (Apparently Red River won't let Midcontinent pick up the HD feed from Fargo to be broadcast on cable either).

[corman]

Originally Posted by egftechman

Interesting that this was the topic of the KNOX roundtable today and many people calling in angry that they can't see the Vikes in HD in the grand forks area (Apparently Red River won't let Midcontinent pick up the HD feed from Fargo to be broadcast on cable either).

It's frustrating. Did anyone have anymore details on when it would be available? We have all pissed and moaned about the KBRR satellite.

[DirectorFlik]

I unfortunately do not have the answer about KBRR. I think it's a technical issue but I do not know the details on why or when it would finally happen. It's possible it could become more of a focus when KNRR is taken care of, but that's just my speculation.

If I hear anything new I'll let you know.

[DirectorFlik]

FYI, KNRR is officially back on the air as of today.

[hotdogs]

Originally Posted by egftechman

Interesting that this was the topic of the KNOX roundtable today and many people calling in angry that they can't see the Vikes in HD in the grand forks area (Apparently Red River won't let Midcontinent pick up the HD feed from Fargo to be broadcast on cable either).

You can see it on HD via satellite, which carries the KVRR feed.

I'm guessing Red River doesn't want cable companies carrying the KVRR feed in Grand Forks because then Grand Forks viewers wouldn't see the Grand Forks ads on KBRR.

[DowntownGF]

Well, it's been awhile since I posted on here as I largely gave up on ever getting KBRR-FOX in HD in Grand Forks. I know it's probably due to many reasons, but I think I can speak for everyone when I say that our local FOX affiliate is WORTHLESS. If it's a lack of funds to upgrade the equipment, wouldn't it be a worthwhile investment to find a way to get the equipment by any and all means? NOONE WANTS TO WATCH YOUR SH177Y LOCAL SD BROADCAST when they could be watching ANY OTHER LOCAL CHANNEL in HD!!! FIGURE IT OUT. After YEARS of drilling this point home on this forum, and with a head of Red River Broadcasting actively reading this forum, get on the stick and get your equipment needs fulfilled FIRST and worry about the money SECOND. You will get more revenue and more viewers by going HD. This is really beyond a request anymore. Make it happen. Now.

*whew* that being said...here is a current (12:00 CDT, 10/18/09) rundown of my available OTA channels in Downtown Grand Forks (right next to the river, 4th floor, SE exposure, antenna aligned E-W almost exactly)

Analog:

17 - 3ABN - some religious channel, color, fuzzy, ghost-imaged
49 - EWTN? - another religious channel, color, clear

Digital:

4-1 KXJB-DT - CBS - 1080i 16:9, some artifacts, some stuttering, should be cleared up by re-aligning the antenna

6-1 WDAY-DT - ABC - Weak or No Signal
6-2 WDAY-DT - CW - Weak or No Signal
6-3 WDAY-DT - WX - Weak or No Signal
10-1 KBRR-DT - FOX - 480i 4:3 Clear, no artifacts, (still listing KNRR on the local news TV commercials??), kudos for having detailed programming info, STILL NOT HD >
11-1 KVLY-DT - NBC - 1080i 16:9, clear, some artifacts, should be clearer with proper alignment of the antenna
15-3 PPTV-DT - 1080i 16:9 - VERY clear, no artifacts
15-4 PPTV-DT - 480i 4:3 - simulcast with 15-3, same quality
15-5 PPTV-DT - 480i 4:3 - different programming, same quality
15-6 PPTV-DT - 480i 4:3 - another different programming, same quality
16-1 PPB1-DT - 1080i 16:9 - same programming as 15-3, VERY clear, no artifacts
16-2 PPB2-DT - 480i 4:3 - simulcast as 16-1, same quality
16-3 PPB3-DT - 480i 4:3 - same programming as 15-5, same quality
16-4 PPB4-DT - 480i 4:3 - same programming as 15-6, same quality

That's it for now, not sure why WDAY wasn't coming in today OTA, got it via cable pass-through in HD from Midco. Tried re-aligning antenna, still nothing. Hope this is mildly helpful info for everyone!

[DowntownGF]

As a follow up, anyone know why I'm picking up so many PPTV channels? It's quite disappointing that Prairie Public Broadcasting is FULL HD including several subchannels and a simulcast 1080i & 480i programming, but KBRR can't get a single HD digital signal out to the area...

[Trip in VA]

Would you maybe have better luck with WDAZ than WDAY?

- Trip

[DowntownGF]

I did an auto-scan using my TV's ATSC tuner, and those are the channels it locked in. I tried to manually enter WDAZ with no luck. Anyone else notice if the local Grand Forks ABC affiliates were off air recently?

[egftechman]

Originally Posted by DowntownGF

I did an auto-scan using my TV's ATSC tuner, and those are the channels it locked in. I tried to manually enter WDAZ with no luck. Anyone else notice if the local Grand Forks ABC affiliates were off air recently?

I have no trouble getting WDAZ with an indoor VHF antenna on the point in EGF.

[egftechman]

Originally Posted by DowntownGF

As a follow up, anyone know why I'm picking up so many PPTV channels? It's quite disappointing that Prairie Public Broadcasting is FULL HD including several subchannels and a simulcast 1080i & 480i programming, but KBRR can't get a single HD digital signal out to the area...

KGFE (channel 15) and KCGE (channel 16) are on the same tower near Euclid, MN. KCGE-DT was rushed on the air in 2003(?) when an ice storm did major damage to KGFE's analog transmitter and channel 2 antenna. It never came back on the air (a temporary LPTV transmitter was set up on channel 2 to keep a signal on the air, but it had no range). PPTV also added a new digital signal in Devils Lake in 2006(?), so between the Crookston signal and the Devils Lake signal most who were in the KGFE analog viewing area, had a digital signal to watch. PPTV turned on KGFE-DT in June, I assume just to hold the license (if a station is dark too long, they could loose their license)

[DirectorFlik]

Originally Posted by DowntownGF

and with a head of Red River Broadcasting actively reading this forum

If you are referring to me, you are quite mistaken.

[ckkmav]

Originally Posted by DowntownGF

As a follow up, anyone know why I'm picking up so many PPTV channels? It's quite disappointing that Prairie Public Broadcasting is FULL HD including several subchannels and a simulcast 1080i & 480i programming, but KBRR can't get a single HD digital signal out to the area...

Public and religious TV and radio get gobs of money from the public. That's why.

[Jon Ellis]

Religious broadcasters are not eligible for government funding.

[Tom Bell]

Originally Posted by Jon Ellis

Religious broadcasters are not eligible for government funding.

he didn't specify government funding, just public funds.

And the public is surprisingly easily goaded into giving funds to religion. I wonder if its tax deductible the way PBS donations are?

KNRR has not made money or has broke even at the most for years, to my knowledge. That they even have the tower operational is a general surprise to me. As well, DirectorFlik has been very communicative with what he can and I personally appreciate his presence. It's more than most do.

Although I too would certainly like to see KNRR up its power a bit and broadcast the Simpsons and the like in HD. If they did, I might even start watching it again. The Simpsons in particular I mean. Fox still makes the Simpsons right?

I also think that there is certainly potential for KNRR to start pulling in a bigger profit. New age of media advertising rates notwithstanding.

Last but not least, I'd like to blame and personally condemn DirectorFlik for the cancellation of Firefly. As an employee of a Fox affiliate it is all his gorram fault and I will not rest until he is brought to justice or it is brought back.