new ED A7s-650 - 1300 watt dual 13's

[MKtheater]

It depends on when or if the drivers are compressing. I know at 120 db's my system is not even close to compression. I know he said he is hitting 125 db's during movie scenes but at what frequencies I don't know. I am running into trouble with REW now but once I get it fixed(figured out) I will rerun sweeps myself. I showed a big peak at 9 hz but it was 2 octaves wide. When I did not use calibration files for my meter I was +/-5 db's from 5-200 hz. It looked better without the cal files. It does not make sense. Room gain starts usually very low, it depends on the room.

[fab5valentine]

NOTNYT... I have spent some time on the phone with ED this afternoon.. They iterated how well the Av.2 suspension design is for handling the low stuff very well.. That said.. I wanted to ask you how you feel about the mid bass on up on your dual 650 set-up.. I mean do you feel for any reason you'd need to reionforce the mid-upper base with a nearfield mid-base-moduale (MBM) or are you totally stoked as is..?

[notnyt]

Originally Posted by fab5valentine

NOTNYT... I have spent some time on the phone with ED this afternoon.. They iterated how well the Av.2 suspension design is for handling the low stuff very well.. That said.. I wanted to ask you how you feel about the mid bass on up on your dual 650 set-up.. I mean do you feel for any reason you'd need to reionforce the mid-upper base with a nearfield mid-base-moduale (MBM) or are you totally stoked as is..?

I don't see any need, but I have large fronts. If you want to listen to music at reference, they can easily do that.

However, I listen to a lot of dubstep, jungle, industrial, hiphop etc. I like the bass to be clean, loud, and generally way over reference. I have my fronts set to large, but they don't provide quite the kick I'm looking for so I ended up playing around with different crossover settings (just acts as an LPF for the subs when the fronts are set to large). I ended up with it set at 100hz and raising the sub levels by up to 10db depending on what I'm listening to. Audyssey originally calculated their levels to -10, in stereo mode I bring them up to 0 depending on the media.

They provide good clean loud bass, I don't see any need for a MBM. Then again, I'm running a pair of the a7s-650s, and using rf83s for fronts. My RS meter is easily pegged at the LP. They can output bass so visceral that it literally makes everything you look at blurry. The only other time I feel bass hit as hard is in my RX7 with a pair of jl 10w3v3s in a sealed box. It's a very small cabin sharing the same space as the subs, you literally feel them moving the air in and out of you.

[spyboy]

Originally Posted by MKtheater

It depends on when or if the drivers are compressing. I know at 120 db's my system is not even close to compression. I know he said he is hitting 125 db's during movie scenes but at what frequencies I don't know. I am running into trouble with REW now but once I get it fixed(figured out) I will rerun sweeps myself. I showed a big peak at 9 hz but it was 2 octaves wide. When I did not use calibration files for my meter I was +/-5 db's from 5-200 hz. It looked better without the cal files. It does not make sense. Room gain starts usually very low, it depends on the room.

But, if you turn off 6 of your 8 18 inch subs, that would be much closer to the A7S-650 than your 8 18 inch vs. the A7S-650's 2 13 inch.

Your 8 18 inch system bears little in common with the A7S-650. The A7S-650 looks like it might be a lot closer to something like the J L Audio F212.

[MKtheater]

I can reach 125 db's with just 2 subs but now compression and increased distortion come into play. Also, my amps are working harder. He has 4 drivers with plenty of power. Sine waves are much harder on the drivers than source material so if he can post a graph like that at 120 db's with sine waves then any movie should be no sweat. 120 db's from sine waves makes your house feel like it will break. I went with so many subs because I want very low distortion, no compression(results in true dynamics) and long life on my amps and subs. It takes 11 13av.2's to equal 8 190v.2's in spl. They have a different sound and some prefer the 13 and others the 18. I have not heard the 13 but I will.

[fab5valentine]

Originally Posted by notnyt

They provide good clean loud bass, I don't see any need for a MBM. Then again, I'm running a pair of the a7s-650s, and using rf83s for fronts. My RS meter is easily pegged at the LP. They can output bass so visceral that it literally makes everything you look at blurry. The only other time I feel bass hit as hard is in my RX7 with a pair of jl 10w3v3s in a sealed box. It's a very small cabin sharing the same space as the subs, you literally feel them moving the air in and out of you.

Great! I plan on two 650's as well.. I'm also running Reference Series as a complete sytem, but currently have the RB82's as front's until I tear down my media wall and will then upgrade to RF83's as well.

I guess these compare most directly to JL Audio's f212, with maybe an ever so slight advantage to the JL's but at a 1/3 the cost easy, so that equates to a huge advantage to the A7s650 user.. I'm going to be using for HT 90/10.. Have been contemplating a Def Tech Trinity, and though a beast as well, still doesn't work off the high excursson design platform that I'm looking for. Plus those Av.2 drivers really get me worked up.. Not a big fan of the carbon grapghite feaux cone design but preformance will over-ride that of coarse..

Thanks again for your time and relpies..

[MKtheater]

The A7s-650 do look sweet for $1000. Makes me want to build 5 of them(to keep spl similar). I may do this at some time. It will save space but that is really not needed.

[notnyt]

Originally Posted by MKtheater

The A7s-650 do look sweet for $1000. Makes me want to build 5 of them(to keep spl similar). I may do this at some time. It will save space but that is really not needed.

I can't imagine why you'd want to consider other subs with the setup you have. Are you not happy with any part of it?

[MKtheater]

It's the disease. I can't help myself. More movies need to come out. When there is a downtime for movies I always end up changing something and do some demoing. It keeps me busy at night.

[bsoko2]

Originally Posted by MKtheater

It's the disease. I can't help myself. More movies need to come out. When there is a downtime for movies I always end up changing something and do some demoing. It keeps me busy at night.

Not really a disease, just our "crack"!

Bill

[otk]

MK is trying to take away theEar's title as subwoofer mad man

what is the goal? to be flat to 0hz +/- 0db with zero% distortion @ 160db

i wonder how many db you can get in-room before you run out of room for subwoofers

i guess at that point it's time for a 200+ driver IB

[MKtheater]

otk, I would never add to what I have, I can seriously put a hurt on someone now(ears). I would replace if anything. I can only imagine a slight change in sound since I am not pushing my system now. I am just curious.

[fab5valentine]

Many people report feeling the wind comming from their ported subwoofers. This is usually a positive observation as long as there is no wind noise or chuffing.. How would this be different in a sealed sub? As there is not air moving out of the sub, but only air that the sub "is" moving.. Looking at the A7s-650 in a dual system..

[MKtheater]

I get lots of air. My hair feels like I am in an electric storm and I sit 13 feet away from my subs. My subs are sealed with the the eD 190v.2 drivers.

[alexlindeman]

Sealed subwoofers move air exclusively with their cones, while a ported subwoofer uses the port to compress and expel air. This is felt as you are moving a lot of air through a smaller area, increasing the velocity.

Ported subwoofers dont generally do this unless in large large quantities.

[notnyt]

Originally Posted by alexlindeman

Sealed subwoofers move air exclusively with their cones, while a ported subwoofer uses the port to compress and expel air. This is felt as you are moving a lot of air through a smaller area, increasing the velocity.

Ported subwoofers dont generally do this unless in large large quantities.

did you mean to say sealed don't generally do this unless in large quantities?

[alexlindeman]

EDIT:::

ME = FAIL TO READ.


Thats correct I meant to say sealed.

[MKtheater]

I am thankful for multiples.

[fab5valentine]

But when moving some good air do you still get the pant flap in movie ultimate bass scenes in a good sealed, big, multiple.. Like in dual sealed 650's.???

[MKtheater]

I think it will depend on the room. My subs give me everything you mention and more. I think 4 13av.2 drivers could do it, especially if you are getting 125 db's.

[notnyt]

Originally Posted by fab5valentine

But when moving some good air do you still get the pant flap in movie ultimate bass scenes in a good sealed, big, multiple.. Like in dual sealed 650's.???

yes =]

[fab5valentine]

Originally Posted by MKtheater

I think it will depend on the room. My subs give me everything you mention and more. I think 4 13av.2 drivers could do it, especially if you are getting 125 db's.

My room is not too big, it's what it's connected too.. Lot's of open space 10k^3 ish that poses a problem.. I would feel like a king if I could see 125 db on a ratshack meter with 2 A7s-650's..

[MKtheater]

Where are the subs going?

[fab5valentine]

Adventually the media wall will come down and get reconfigured which will include sealing the room.. They'll probably go in the front.. For now I have options.. Currently I have One Phoenix in the corner and the other on the end of the sectional near the media cenetr.. That corner isn't a very good spot, however I will probably stack the 2 Phoenix' there this weekend maybe they can overcome any previous issues.. With the dual A7s-650's I may fire the both into the room with one on the other end of the sectional and one just outside the room near the book case near the enrty (see the foot print in the pic.. Both firing into the room.. The oposite side has proved a good spot (under the solo window) for measuring and that's where the 2nd Phoenix resides currently (the pics are slightly old).. Could also co-locate nearfield behind the couch standing or on their sides.. Dunno.. Have any suggestions?? I hadn't wanted to go adjacent to the opening of the room with a down firing sub but with side firings I may be able to get a good reaction..?? The 2 Phoenix' sounded teffific on each end of the sectional-eye opening brilliant!! However I lost a lot of output (SPL) when splitting them up.. The 650's essentially already co-located drivers by design. So I don't know.. I do want to co-locate my Phoenix and see what happens there first.. So far about 116 db is what I've got at about -8db. But the Phoenix doesn't troll way down deep (really loud).. Need to run REW to confirm...

[MKtheater]

I always prefer a front placement but sometimes that is not the best spot for the subs. My back corners were my best spot but I wanted to hide my subs behind the screen so I needed twice as many subs for the same output. I would just make sure any sub or subs stay in the room. REW will tell you where the best placement is.

[DreamCatcher]

Well I've had my A7s-650 in my system for about a week now so I thought I'd share my impressions, FWIW.
A little background first, I've owned just about every subwoofer out there, well that's a reach but here's the most recent list (last year or so),
SVS PC13 Ultra
SVS PB12 NSD
SVS SB12 Plus
HSU HO Turbo
HSU MBM
JLAudio F113
Revel B15 (2)
Seaton SubMersive (which I still own)
I've always wanted a JLAudio Gotham F213 but couldn't justify the entry price. So I saw the eD as a chance to get close.
But like I said I already own the SubMersive,
so what's the problem?
The SubMersive is an excellent sub but for some reason in my listening room it lacked the chair shaking, room vibrating, chest throbbing bass that I was use to with the PC13 Ultra.
The SubMersive is the best music sub I've ever heard but just wasn't doing it for me for LFE movie impact.
It was like I couldn't get it to misbehave, to let loose and just slam.
Almost like it has some sort of limiter that wouldn't let it shake stuff.
I don't know what was going on really.
It measured flat down to 15 or so HZ.
But when it comes to shaking the room it just doesn't want to do it, at least in my setup.
So in comes the A7s-650 to hopefully shake things up a bit.
WOW does it shake stuff!
The famous Darla glass tapping scene shakes the whole house, now this is what I looking for.
During this scene I was hitting 110db+ on my SPL meter at -6 on the volume control, not quite to reference.
The A7s-650 wasn't displaying any signs of distress but the house was.
The only limits of the A7s-650 seems to be your house's foundation.
Movie after movie the A7s-650 deliver the goods and then some
So with the slam back in my system the only question was could the A7s-650 play nice with music.
The answer..... YES.
It's bass output stays tight, fast and deep even with the most demanding of musical bass,
such as Massive Attack, Michael Franti to Diana Krall, Donald Fagen, Norah Jones, etc....

The SubMersive taught me what musical bass should sound like,
the A7s-650 is teaching what it's like to have it ALL!
Great Job eD.... Thanks,

DreamCatcher

[mcjasonb]

interesting that it beats a Submersive.

[notnyt]

Originally Posted by DreamCatcher

Well I've had my A7s-650 in my system for about a week now so I thought I'd share my impressions, FWIW.
A little background first, I've owned just about every subwoofer out there, well that's a reach but here's the most recent list (last year or so),
SVS PC13 Ultra
SVS PB12 NSD
SVS SB12 Plus
HSU HO Turbo
HSU MBM
JLAudio F113
Revel B15 (2)
Seaton SubMersive (which I still own)
I've always wanted a JLAudio Gotham F213 but couldn't justify the entry price. So I saw the eD as a chance to get close.
But like I said I already own the SubMersive,
so what's the problem?
The SubMersive is an excellent sub but for some reason in my listening room it lacked the chair shaking, room vibrating, chest throbbing bass that I was use to with the PC13 Ultra.
The SubMersive is the best music sub I've ever heard but just wasn't doing it for me for LFE movie impact.
It was like I couldn't get it to misbehave, to let loose and just slam.
Almost like it has some sort of limiter that wouldn't let it shake stuff.
I don't know what was going on really.
It measured flat down to 15 or so HZ.
But when it comes to shaking the room it just doesn't want to do it, at least in my setup.
So in comes the A7s-650 to hopefully shake things up a bit.
WOW does it shake stuff!
The famous Darla glass tapping scene shakes the whole house, now this is what I looking for.
During this scene I was hitting 110db+ on my SPL meter at -6 on the volume control, not quite to reference.
The A7s-650 wasn't displaying any signs of distress but the house was.
The only limits of the A7s-650 seems to be your house's foundation.
Movie after movie the A7s-650 deliver the goods and then some
So with the slam back in my system the only question was could the A7s-650 play nice with music.
The answer..... YES.
It's bass output stays tight, fast and deep even with the most demanding of musical bass,
such as Massive Attack, Michael Franti to Diana Krall, Donald Fagen, Norah Jones, etc....

The SubMersive taught me what musical bass should sound like,
the A7s-650 is teaching what it's like to have it ALL!
Great Job eD.... Thanks,

DreamCatcher

Wow that's quite the list of subs. Glad you finally found something you're happy with. I love mine. It's nice to hear a comparison to the submersive.

[Nels07]

DC how would you compare the eD to the submersive in terms of music and in terms of movies?

[larry7995]

anyone have a picture of a cherry finish 650 yet?