Ready mount and setup my Electrohome 8500! Throw distance?

[Billy Gun]

I have it sitting on a cart in my basement theater room.
I still need to fabricate some kind of mounting system for it, but was wondering what you guys believe to be the best method of calculating where to mount the unistrut in the ceiling and to determine the proper throw distance for a 92" diag (80" x 45")16:9 screen to be displayed.

(I just ordered Wilsonart D354-60 today from Home Depot for my DIY screen)

I looked in the manual and it just says 107.6" throw distance for 80" wide and the footnote says that’s for a 4:3 screen so I know that can't be correct....

Thanks for any help provided!

[Tim in Phoenix]

Hello

The throw formulas usually have it too far from the screen, so experiment at floor level. Best results if H Size is set around 90.


.

[Prehjan]

Hello and welcome Billy

I do hope that you will have it dialed in in no time at all!

... and start enjoying your M8500...

Let us know if we can help you with the details.

Good luck

Martin

[nashou66]

like tim said, first set up the raster size on the tube face , id stay about 1/4 to 1/2 inch away from the edges with the source image showing. it usually is in the 90 h size range give or take 4 clicks. then once you have that set move the pj to fill the screen your going to use. then transfer the floor location to the ceiling. Use superstrut in the electrical department of home depot for the mount and possibly some round pipe and the corresponding eye bolts that the pipe will go through. its much easier to slide the PJ on the pipe then using all superstrut.

Athanasios

[draganm]

wow, your first marquee, boy that brings back some great memory's for me. I remember painting my first screen in my garage in the middle of December with 20 degree temps outswide, then setting up the 8500 in my basement. The tubes were pretty heavilly worn and the blue G2 was turned down to almost nothing by some previous amatuer hands in a classroom it came from but I thoguht it was the most awesome pic in the world.
HAve fun and good luck. Don't forget to check that P14 voltage. IT was really off on my machine and a big problem in all 1996 models + some late 95's and early 97's. It's a tube killer if left unchecked.
I also have a set-up guide for dummy's if you like.

[John Tremor]

good luck mounting it. the electrohome PJs are nice machines

[Billy Gun]

Originally Posted by nashou66

like tim said, first set up the raster size on the tube face , id stay about 1/4 to 1/2 inch away from the edges with the source image showing. it usually is in the 90 h size range give or take 4 clicks. then once you have that set move the pj to fill the screen your going to use. then transfer the floor location to the ceiling. Use superstrut in the electrical department of home depot for the mount and possibly some round pipe and the corresponding eye bolts that the pipe will go through. its much easier to slide the PJ on the pipe then using all superstrut.

Athanasios

should I set up the raster size while its on the floor? Is this setting done with the remote?

Is the 90H you speak of a setting number I adjust to with the remote in a specific menu?

I'll look at superstrut today at home Depot.

thanks for the Help!

[Billy Gun]

Another note;

I would prefer to only slide the PJ front to back slightly and none side to side as I'm trying to save ceiling height, it's very critical for my situation, this thing, as you know is a beast!

If I get the PJ within a 1/4" dead center of the room, why can't I just bump the screen slightly left or right to get it totaly correct rather than loosing more celing height adding another layer of more strut or pipe beneath just to get the PJ so I can move it a wee bit left or right?

Thoughts? other considrations?

Thanks!

[Billy Gun]

Originally Posted by draganm

wow, your first marquee, boy that brings back some great memory's for me. I remember painting my first screen in my garage in the middle of December with 20 degree temps outswide, then setting up the 8500 in my basement. The tubes were pretty heavilly worn and the blue G2 was turned down to almost nothing by some previous amatuer hands in a classroom it came from but I thoguht it was the most awesome pic in the world.
HAve fun and good luck. Don't forget to check that P14 voltage. IT was really off on my machine and a big problem in all 1996 models + some late 95's and early 97's. It's a tube killer if left unchecked.
I also have a set-up guide for dummy's if you like.

yes, I may need that! please forward the setup instructions? are they specific to the 8500?

[draganm]

You set H size under Geometry, Horizontal and vertical size. Keep in mind that if this machine is all original, and your running a 16:9 "widescreen" you will not be able to set vertical size small enough without a modification to the vertical board. With the anamorphic mod typical sizes for a good 16:9 set-up are like H-90 V-20 approximately. Without the mod, V-0 will still be too tall.
Yes, you can scoot the screen left right and I also strongly urge you to find a proper mounting bracket. Using just straight strut is a royal PITA. I think Curt has brackets for $150.?
I can't attach any kind of files to a PM here, e-mail me through my signature line and I'll send you the set-up guide. It's strictly for the marquee.

[atomiccow]

I don't know if it was specifically Wilsonart but I ordered some flat white laminate back in the day and didn't care for it because I could see the texture of the material and it had a faint...I guess you'd say hot spot. So if you don't like it, don't hesitate to paint it with Behr Ultra Pure White flat. Not eggshell or low luster. Flat. Makes a great picture. Create a matting system. It helps make the movie watching experience a lot more enjoyable. You have some advantages in that regard with a rigid screen.

And here is my other dumb bit of screen advice. You were probably limited to a 5x8 foot piece. Now depending on whether you want a 7.5' screen or an 8' wide screen thats a good thing or a bad thing. Not everyone will agree with me but I think the most desirable screen shape for a fixed screen is 4:3 ratio. And the main reason is image size. There are basically three screen ratios for the movies you will play. Widescreen, 16:9 and old films which use a 4:3 ratio. With a 4:3 ratio your films will always be as big as they can be. Maybe old noir films won't be as impressively shot as the latest epic in cinemascope, but they will be much larger, so you look forward to seeing those. If you opt for an ultra wide fixed screen, playing older movies or 16X9 films means vertical masking making the old movies less wide and therefore smaller in order to fit them on your screen. You may not mind. But personally I like the biggest image possible, and with a 4:3 ratio screen you always get that. Its a matter of preference I suppose. Some people just like the look of a more rectangular less square screen. If so 16X9 is better than a 2.35:1 for the same reasons

[stefuel]

If height is a issue for you, I would start looking for a factory mount. I won't use anything but a factory mount. The only place I use "uni-strut" is to make slides for the factory mount. That allows the factory mount to slide closer/further away from the screen for maximum raster use. It also gives a much more finished/pro look to the installation. You might think that you could save 50-75 bucks building your own mount from uni-strut but you'll spend hours trying to engineer something that will work but it will still look like a DIY afterthought. A $150.00 dollar factory mount is a drop in the bucket compaired to what you will eventually spend on your theater getting it the way you want it. That said, my advice to you is to forget about mounting it for now and master setting it up on the cart first. It's a much easier task to learn on the floor than overhead. That's all I have to say to a new SLAVE to the hobby.

[draganm]

4:3 screens suck a**. How can having your center channel on the floor improve any movie and the only 4:3 movie I've seen in my theatre was a Dr. Seuss video when my kids were 2.
It doesn't even make sense for older movies unless you go back to the 1940's. I have a couple of local friends who went for the "big 4:3" screen and lo and behold every time I go over there there's a wide-screen movie playing and the center channel squawking at my feet

[stefuel]

Actually, if you watch any 4:3 material, it makes perfect sense to go with a 4:3 screen. I have a 4:3 screen with automated masking. My wife and kids do a lot of std def viewing. I would hate to torch a small 4:3 image in the middle of my widescreen raster. As far as sound goes, he may have a micro-perf screen with a hidden center channel speaker. Mine rests above of the screen.

[nashou66]

I agree with Chip if you have the ceiling height and the room doing a CIW set up on a crt is awesome. especially if you even out aspect ratio viewing.

If I wasn't blending id have to have a 105" high screen to keep the 140 inch width

Athanasios

[Billy Gun]

well, I fired it up yesterday and I threw an image on my canyon orange wall while its sitting on its feet on a cart with wheels, moved it towards wall and away until it looked focused, The image is upside down because it was previously mounted on a ceiling, and that’s ok, cause its exactly what I'm gonna do with it.

the pictured looked out of "Rectangle" but I'm assuming that’s cause the back of the PJ is too low???

anyway, my BIGGEST concern the fan noise! It seems pretty noisy compared to my Friends Panasonic PT-AX200U. (Which I can now pick up new for about $900)

I can hear a humming sound from the PJ at one frequency, then different pitched noise that sounds like maybe a bearing going bad at another frequency.

So I see my situation as this; I can just sell it and use the money to buy a Panasonic PT-AX200U for $900. (Which is VERY quiet but PQ isn’t really up to my expectations)

Could I get that noise down to the level of the Panasonic PT-AX200U without spending too much money on new fans or mods? (building a hush box isn’t something I want to endure.)

I really would hate to spend $500 dollars or more only to discover the noise is still there and not as low of a level as say the Panasonic PT-AX200U....

Any honest input would be very much appreciated! I don’t wanna start a CRT Vs. LCD or DLP war. But I bought this unit because of the PQ and smooth film like image that CRT provides. I just wasn’t prepared for this much noise coming from it

I'd like to keep it

[Prehjan]

Billy

if the fans are noisy then they are probably in need of replacement! (Or oiling!)

The stock fans are fairly quite on the marquees...you can replace them with some super silent paspt fans they are almost silent.

The fans are not expensive and you should replace them if you are bothered by the noise...but if you have your heart set on a Panasonic digital then you should get that...but be warned that short of spending mega bucks on a digital you will not even come close to the PQ of one of these marquees!

Good luck

Martin

[Billy Gun]

where can I buy these super quiet replacement fans?!

Sounds like thats the way to go!

[draganm]

Originally Posted by Billy Gun

where can I buy these super quiet replacement fans?!
Sounds like thats the way to go!

it's more than just replacing fan's. The new fans need to be mounted outside the enclosure on a piece of foam.Also, the Papst fans are bare wire and need to be terminated. Tim does this and also checks/fixes the critical P14 voltage for $325.

http://www.curtpalme.com/MARQUEE_FAN_MOD.shtm

[Billy Gun]

ok, what level does this mod take the fan noise down to? any way I can get a point of reference? Also, I think my machine already has mods to it, thats what the previous owner said. Can I just measure the PIN 14 voltage for myself to see if it's ok? Where is it, and what voltage reading should I see to know I'm "Safe"?

Thanks,
Bill

[nashou66]

I would be more worried about the squealing sound you have, it could be a HV leak. witht he lights off and the top cover off look for any blue flashes( High Voltage Arc's) look around the HV splitter and the red cables themselves.

Athanasios

[draganm]

Originally Posted by nashou66

I would be more worried about the squealing sound you have, it could be a HV leak. Athanasios

it's just the HDM, that's why it changes in frequncy. It's normal and shouldn't be obtrusive if the covers are on.

[Billy Gun]

Originally Posted by nashou66

I would be more worried about the squealing sound you have, it could be a HV leak. witht he lights off and the top cover off look for any blue flashes( High Voltage Arc's) look around the HV splitter and the red cables themselves.

Athanasios

its not "Squeeling" really....lower in frequency. more like a "Light grinding" noise thats different than the low hum of the fans running....

[Prehjan]

Billy you can check the P14 voltage yourself using a multimeter...either at the P14 or on the boards itself!

here is the link explaining the process:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=83044

...and

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6618

or...

http://www.etechvideo.com/


And the link for the silent fans manufacturer:

http://www.ebmpapst.us/

Martin

[nashou66]

Hmm, i never heard any Light Grinding sounds from my 5 marquee's


Athanasios

[John Tremor]

[quote=Prehjan;17489186]Billy you can check the P14 voltage yourself using a multimeter...either at the P14 or on the boards itself!

here is the link explaining the process:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=83044

...and

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6618

or

I had to check mine over well for same issues. these are good links with valuable info.

[draganm]

Originally Posted by Billy Gun

its not "Squeeling" really....lower in frequency. more like a "Light grinding" noise thats different than the low hum of the fans running....

that's almost certainly the power supply fan's, I just replaced a couple that did the exact same thing. Sounded like grinding coffee

[draganm]

Originally Posted by Billy Gun

So I see my situation as this; I can just sell it and use the money to buy a Panasonic PT-AX200U for $900. (Which is VERY quiet but PQ isn’t really up to my expectations) I just wasn’t prepared for this much noise coming from it
I'd like to keep it

I just wanted to make a comment regarding this, CRT is a project, and if it's your first it's a big challenge. Fixing the fan noise is easy but chances are you will run into more challenges. There's 2 types of people out there, ones that tend to obsess about things and will plough ahead no matter what and those that will always take the easy way out.
Not to pass judgement, especially since group 2 probably lives longer , but if you have a group 2 personality then just get the DLP and be done with it. No point in putting months of effort into something you might just throw in the towel in on in 2 or 3 months.

[Billy Gun]

I dont mind the challenges, as long as its worth it. I bought this unit because I wasnt happy with the PQ I seen on digital PJs around 3-4K, and I do have the ceiling height to use this big monster. If the fan noise can be quited to "Digital PJ levels, I'll most likely be ok working through whatever else I need to with help from AVS members and friends!

thanks again for all the help so far!

[Prehjan]

Billy

The PQ is going to be great once set up properly...juts take a look at the screenshot wars thread and see what a properly set up 8500 can do.

...the fan noise could also be brought down to better than "digital" levels...almost silent...by using the fans mentioned above!

As far as the PQ is concerned, trust me when I say that you could improve on that too...much more than the mid level digitals...and even better!

Assuming you are willing to follow some basic directions and learn how to do this properly. (...after all there is a learning curve and you get what you put into a CRT setup!)

..but it is possible, none the less! ...and the results are short of amazing as I said!

I too do not have the ceiling height so my mine is setup on the floor...raised by a home made mount to a level that is correct for my applications....what I am saying is that you do not have to ceiling mount a CRT to use it to its fullest...It is the same!!!

Anyhow hope this helped and let us know how else we could help you out with this!

Short of spending mega bucks on a triple chip dlp/lcos you cannot get the performance/PQ that you can get from a Marquee! period. (I am sure that others would disagree! and they may or may not be right for their tastes and applications of the tech!)

Good luck and prepare to be amazed! (You should go to a fellow local members place and check out what is possible in person and then make up your mind as to pursue this "CRT route" or not!)

Martin