Highest high def channels per dollar ratio?

[ps24eva]

Which has the most HD channels per dollar?

Directv
Dish Network
Fios
Comcast
Something else?

[kucharsk]

Define "HD."

DirecTV and DISH both downres 1920x1080i channels to 1440x1080i or even 1280x1080i.

I believe FIOS passes 1920x1080i channels as 1920x1080i, which automatically gives them more HD channels than either DirecTV or DISH, neither of which pass anything higher definition than 1440x1080i.

Rumor has it Comcast also recompresses but I've no proof of that.

[bicker1]

And the legacy cable services all have their rates reviewed by each individual town, so there is very little consistency. So your question is unanswerable.

And unnecessary. You should contact each of the services that serve your area, get a quote for the best deal available from each, and then make your decision based on that. You don't like in "the national average" -- you live in your own hometown.

[Rammitinski]

Originally Posted by kucharsk

Define "HD."

16:9 format channels.

[LEVEL4]

Los Angeles-Market HD Channels by Provider: [as of 11/07/09]

I've had the same question bouncing around my head for months! You'd think these numbers would be more easily available. As you can see, the actual numbers are a bit of a chore to derive and qualify accurately by looking at their websites. Most of these had to be counted manually, by touching my finger to the screen, as I counted. Total channel numbers will vary by location, depending on the number of local-OTA channels carried by your system in your specific area.

1. Verizon FiOS: 134 (includes 16 "twin-time zone" channels from east/west coast feeds; i.e., 118 "non-twin, time zone" channels).

2. AT&T U-verse: 91 (site claims "over 105" HD channels, which includes premium sports channels).

3. dishNetwork: 66 basic extended-type channels (e.g., NatGeoHD), plus 11 "platinum" movie channels (e.g., HDnet), plus an unknown number of premium movie channels (e.g., HBO), and, I assume, their east/west coast twin channels (number includes 1 HD on-demand "channel" and one HD pay-per-view "channel); site claims "over 80 HD channels;" actual HD premium movie channel count unknown and difficult to derive from their site.

4. Cable (TimeWarner, Los Angeles): 67 (includes 4 east/west-coast, duplicate premium movie channel feeds, and 1 HD on-demand "channel;" i.e., 62 "unique" channels).

5. DirecTV: 60, not including 20 additional, available regional sports networks, which would then total 80.


The winner: FiOS! (I think).

[Rammitinski]

How about U-verse (save the cracks about it not being "HD-enough")?

[CPanther95]

Originally Posted by Rammitinski

16:9 format channels.

They're all 16:9 if your TV has a "stretch" function.

[QZ1]

Originally Posted by ps24eva

Which has the most HD channels per dollar?

Directv
Dish Network
Fios
Comcast
Something else?

Comcast, because they give you infinity HD channels per dollar, since one can have any and all of their HD channels for zero dollars over SD channels.

Each HD channel is included in a service with SD channels. Also, a given HD channel is almost always in the same service as the corresponding SD channel.

If, however, you mean, how much would it cost to buy all of the HD channels available from a provider, divided by the price, to determine the highest average number of HD channels per dollar, that I don't know.

[homcom]

Originally Posted by bicker1

And the legacy cable services all have their rates reviewed by each individual town, so there is very little consistency. So your question is unanswerable.

Very few towns have any control over any pricing what so ever. If they do it usually just for the most basic level of service. As some states have moved to statewide franchises there is not any local control what so ever.

[jpr281]

Originally Posted by kucharsk

DirecTV and DISH both downres 1920x1080i channels to 1440x1080i or even 1280x1080i.

I thought that stopped years ago.

[fredfa]

What possible difference does it make if one provider or another has more HD channels?

All that matters is which provider has more of the channels you and your family want to watch.

It could have just a couple of dozen, but if they are the "right" ones -- the ones watched in your house -- they are enough. (Surveys show the average family of four watches about 17 channels in a given month.)

The only people who really should care about total numbers are the folks who write press releases for the various providers.

[Jeremy W]

Originally Posted by kucharsk

DirecTV and DISH both downres 1920x1080i channels to 1440x1080i or even 1280x1080i.

Originally Posted by jpr281

I thought that stopped years ago.

DirecTV stopped, Dish still does it. But people love to still spread misinformation about DirecTV.

[LEVEL4]

Originally Posted by fredfa

What possible difference does it make if one provider or another has more HD channels?

It makes a difference to me. I see that FiOS has a lot of HD channels that my cable provider, TimeWarner, doesn't carry. Many, that I would definitely like to check out. And, doggone-it . . . only DirecTV has the stupid NASA channel that I've only been wanting my whole life! I just wanted to know who had the most HD channels, and I couldn't believe how difficult it was to quantify that one dimension among the available providers, just from reading their websites. I now have seven HDTVs in the house (and no SDTVs), and I think most would agree, all else being equal, the more available HD channels, the better.

I've been considering FiOS ever since it was rolled out in my community, but the promotional insertions they put in the Los Angeles Times were wholly misleading--I had initially thought that they actually had the fewest HD offerings from reading that partial list they published in the flier!

The OP actually didn't ask, "Who has the most HD channels?" They asked (to paraphrase), "Who has the best-bang-for-the-buck HD channel line-up?" After a lot of review, I found that the various services only differ, at most, by about $50, once you add up your programming, internet, and hardware preferences, and take away any temporary promotional discounts. But, if I had to choose the best HD bang-for-the-buck channel line-up, it would be FiOS.

[Ken H]

Originally Posted by LEVEL4

Los Angeles-Market HD Channels by Provider:

A better list for national HD providers:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1058081

[Ken H]

Originally Posted by kucharsk

Define "HD."

DirecTV and DISH both downres 1920x1080i channels to 1440x1080i or even 1280x1080i.

I believe FIOS passes 1920x1080i channels as 1920x1080i, which automatically gives them more HD channels than either DirecTV or DISH, neither of which pass anything higher definition than 1440x1080i.

Rumor has it Comcast also recompresses but I've no proof of that.

With the exception of Verizon FiOS and some Comcast (local HD, ESPN, TNT, a few others) all providers reduce HD image quality in one way or another.

[CPanther95]

Your local affiliates can't be beat for cost ratio. $0.00 for all of your local HD channels.

[keenan]

Originally Posted by CPanther95

Your local affiliates can't be beat for cost ratio. $0.00 for all of your local HD channels.

If you can receive them.

[LEVEL4]

Originally Posted by Ken H

A better list for national HD providers:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1058081

Nice! Duh! I NEVER seem to see the stickies right in front of my face!

Originally Posted by Ken H

With the exception of Verizon FiOS and some Comcast (local HD, ESPN, TNT, a few others) all providers reduce HD image quality in one way or another.

Slightly off-topic:

So true. The amount of compression applied by typical cable providers and DirecTV is very heavy--any significant detail, and the whole thing falls apart (e.g., DiscoveryHD's "Plant Earth"). Since "everything" is compressed at one point in the stream, even beginning at in-camera acquisition (e.g., HDCAM at 440 Mbps; 8-bit at 3:1:1) or in telecine, I wonder what FiOS' Mbps, sampling rate/quantization really is? Anyone know what they use to encode their streams? I mean, no one transmits in 10-bit, 4:4:4 HD-SDI. I wonder what FiOS is really sending?

[coyoteaz]

MPEG2 feeds are passed without recompression. MPEG4 feeds are recompressed to VBR MPEG2, maximum 18Mbit/s video. All consumer-grade video is 4:2:0.

[bicker1]

Originally Posted by homcom

Very few towns have any control over any pricing what so ever. If they do it usually just for the most basic level of service. As some states have moved to statewide franchises there is not any local control what so ever.

Yes, the point I was making... that it varies depending on area, still applies. The areas are just getting larger.

[LEVEL4]

Originally Posted by coyoteaz

MPEG2 feeds are passed without recompression. MPEG4 feeds are recompressed to VBR MPEG2, maximum 18Mbit/s video. All consumer-grade video is 4:2:0.

Even more off-topic stuff:

So, FiOS sends 18 Mbit/s video? Do you have any idea at what data rate they receive those previously encoded MPEG2 feeds at their headend? Also, at what data rate do typical digital cable providers and what data rate does DirecTV send?

[Jim Hef]

Originally Posted by fredfa

...All that matters is which provider has more of the channels you and your family want to watch....

Agreed! With my FiOS service, the lead was easily reached by the addition of a dozen or more channels that have incredibly worthless programming that I'm not sure who would watch. However, those channels are going to multiply over the next few years, with entrepreneurs looking to create a new network, so get ready for the high def Broccoli channel geared toward vegetarians!

[Jeremy W]

Originally Posted by LEVEL4

what data rate does DirecTV send?

DirecTV's stuff typically ranges from 7-9mbps. But they're 100% MPEG4, so you can't just directly compare that to other providers' MPEG2 bitrates.

[Ken H]

Originally Posted by LEVEL4

Even more off-topic stuff:

So, FiOS sends 18 Mbit/s video? Do you have any idea at what data rate they receive those previously encoded MPEG2 feeds at their headend? Also, at what data rate do typical digital cable providers and what data rate does DirecTV send?

We've been down the road many, many times before. You can't simply pick one parameter, bit rate, and use it to quantify HD image quality. It certainly counts, but so do other parameters, as you already noted above.

One large cableco, Comcast, muxes most HD channels three into one QAM frequency, which is one more per QAM than a straight pass through would have. But, local HD and a few other HD channels like ESPN are muxed only two per QAM channel.

[coyoteaz]

Originally Posted by LEVEL4

Even more off-topic stuff:

So, FiOS sends 18 Mbit/s video? Do you have any idea at what data rate they receive those previously encoded MPEG2 feeds at their headend? Also, at what data rate do typical digital cable providers and what data rate does DirecTV send?

They send them at whatever they are received at. A couple examples: USA, Syfy, ESPN, and HDNet are all around 17Mbit/s each. A lot of the lower bitrate channels like Food HD have moved to MPEG4 distribution to save on satellite space. Most providers are doing 3 HD per QAM, which works out to about 12.5Mbit/s each on average, but they will normally be able to steal bits from each other as needed.

[ps24eva]

Hello it is the thread starter here.

a. I don't care about PQ.

b. I don't care about who has the most amount of HD channels. I am only interested in the RATIO of HD channels to dollars

[tighr]

Originally Posted by ps24eva

Hello it is the thread starter here.

a. I don't care about PQ.

b. I don't care about who has the most amount of HD channels. I am only interested in the RATIO of HD channels to dollars

Then CPanther95 has your answer... the local affiliates have the best bang for the buck. $0.00/HD channel can't be beat, unless you get someone to pay you to watch TV. I receive all four major networks via my antenna in High Definition, and a number of others in regular ol' DTV. And even though you mentioned not caring about it, OTA will get you the best PQ, too.

Now if only ESPN would go OTA...

[Rammitinski]

For the major pay providers, it used to hands down be Dish's All-HD Turbo Packages (their All-HD Absolute Package before that was an even better deal), and people were supposedly still able to get them if they asked specifically and got ahold of the right CSR up until a couple of months ago (even though they stopped advertising it). But I don't see too much conversation about it lately on the satellite forums, so I don't know if anyone's still able to get it (as a new subscriber - the old ones are still grandfathered in).

Someone who sells Dish on Satellite Guys did confirm a couple of months back that it was still available, but they were told not to tell people about it unless they specifically asked. So I guess it wouldn't hurt to still try.

Can't really include it here as an official choice, since it's speculative, but to the OP, if they're actually researching this because they're interested in getting it for theirself (they never really said that they were, so who knows), it'd be something to consider.

They apparently aren't adding any new HD channels that come out to the packages for people who have them, though.

[googlegod]

Originally Posted by ps24eva

Hello it is the thread starter here.

a. I don't care about PQ.

b. I don't care about who has the most amount of HD channels. I am only interested in the RATIO of HD channels to dollars

I think comcast cause with "on demand" in HD and most in 5.0 or 5.1 you get the most choices of what you want to watch at any given time.

[Rick_R]

Originally Posted by Rammitinski

16:9 format channels.

Actually I believe the CEA defines HD as any of the 720 or 1080 ATSC formats. Thus HD must be at least 720x1280 at 24 fps since this is the lowest resolution of these formats.

Rick R