TVONE Blending Info, General Q&A or just how to?

[Gino AUS]

Originally Posted by Boilermaker

Gino - Good to have you back into it!

The only difference in my setup from Athanasios is I use a little Monoprice DVI splitter out of my VP50pro. The only disadvantage I can see with Moome's wonderful MUX is that you lose the lossless audio codecs unless you go through your audio pre/pro first which adds another handshake.

Sweet, so you're saying all is well with HDCP... straight from source > VP50pro > splitter > TVOne? If that's the case I won't bother with the Moome EXT-HD

[Gino AUS]

Originally Posted by nashou66

Did a few tweaks, still not a perfect match on both PJ's but close enough to enjoy some Foo Fighters !!!

Looking good Athanasios! Remind me what size and type screen you are using.

I've got everything into the home theatre now, and have wired it all up. Tonight I check that both marquee's are working perfectly after having been boxed up for so long. Will probably take them apart first to check that my glycol problem hasn't returned.

[nashou66]

Thanks Gino, I used the MUX due to the tv ones wating to use 1080p @60 and not 24. They have a edid editor but I didn't try to use it.

I'm using a Dalite 1.3 gain. 140" wide screen. I definitly see why
a unity gain would be best.

Athanasios

[Boilermaker]

Sweet, so you're saying all is well with HDCP...

I wish, but no. I am using HD-SDI from BD into the VP50Pro at 24Hz. I then output 1080P@24 through the Monoprice splitter into the two TVOne's. Output from the TVOne's is 1064X1080P@72. I chose 1080 instead of 800 or 817 because I watch a lot of sports and didn't want to throw away any lines and I'm too lazy to setup two resolutions.

Bob

[Gino AUS]

So it is still necessary to include a moome/hdcp stripper before the tvone's when using hdmi sources?

[nashou66]

Gino, it depends sometimes on the player being used and if you using all the default resolutions in the Tv-One. The Tv-one likes to pick the closest input res if it cant' find the exact one. this is an issue really only during the start up of movie where some of the material is not true 1080p@24, so it blanks out etc till it finds the proper res, but if you have lots of choices in the Tv-Ones resolution library it might stick to one resolution you don't want to use( like 1080i). So i eliminated them all and only set it up with 1080p@24, 1064x800 and 1056x817 and thats it. I will add another one for 1.78 content at some point but you can use the aspect control in the unit to not really need it, but then you do alter the true resolution a bit.

Also If you dont need the DVDO try to not use it at first, one reason is you need to then make an exact copy of the timing numbers from the Vp50 to the Tv-one. I just left my lumagen out for now and it works great as is I might use it now since there is no gamma adjustment in the Tv-ones yet, not sure when they'll do it, if ever.

But try it either way with and with out its a simple swap out Gino, I like the Mux ,avoids any issues if any might show up.

But HDCP was not an issue for me its the resolution choices of the player that I had problems with.

Athanasios

[nashou66]

Hey guys I also got this message from Robert today:

Originally Posted by Tv_OneEngineer

TV One Support (Europe) 16/11/2009 12:03:50
Hi Athanasios,
Ok we have looked at the video you sent over and the glitch that you see is not the cause of the problem we have done some further tests here and found that the color banding that you see has nothing to do with the blend - it is an issue at a different level we are currently looking into where the issue lies. There are no plans to add multipoint controls in the near future, but we hope to have a fix for the banding on gradients which is what you are seeing.

Best Regards,

Robert

Bob,I sent a reply to him asking if they are completely ignoring the gamma adjustment or just postponing it, i think the former ( I hope).

I dont think they will forget it since they spent all the energy to have the protocols in place in the unit, Just no software. So i threw in the question if they want to subcontract out the software writing to your niece!! Lets see what he say's and if he will ask his superiors about it.

Athanasios

[Boilermaker]

So it is still necessary to include a moome/hdcp stripper before the tvone's when using hdmi sources?

Gino - I'm pretty sure that Athanasios uses Moomes after the TVOne's - Correct me if I'm wrong here, Athanasios.

Gino, in order to eliminate any issues, you might consider getting an HD-SDI mod and then using an HD-Link to convert to DVI to feed your Lumagen. That way you get rid of any potential HDCP bullshit and free up your HDMI for audio use only. Just a thought.

this is an issue really only during the start up of movie where some of the material is not true 1080p@24, so it blanks out etc till it finds the proper res,

I don't have this problem. Perhaps it is because of the HD-SDI, or maybe it is the BD player difference?

Bob,I sent a reply to him asking if they are completely ignoring the gamma adjustment or just postponing it, i think the former ( I hope).

Well, this doesn't really surprise me, but actually I appreciate the honesty instead of leading us on the way DVDO does. Looks like I will be ordering a pair of SpectraCal's CMS boxes as soom as they come out. Maybe they will have a twofer sale?


Bob

[nashou66]

Gino - I'm pretty sure that Athanasios uses Moomes after the TVOne's - Correct me if I'm wrong here, Athanasios.

Nope, its before the C2-2250's , it has two outputs a DVI and HDMI that are exact in output. I also can use the 4 inputs on the MUX, all HDMI.

I don't have this problem. Perhaps it is because of the HD-SDI, or maybe it is the BD player difference?

I think its due to my LG Bh100 and BH200, the Bh100 only outputs 24hz but the Tv-One was showing the input vale at 1080p@72, its a weird anomaly as I am sure the BH100 does not do 1080p@72 So my issue was the player most likely and I dont think any other players would cause a problem, I never tried the BH200 without the MUX, I should some day and compare it to my Gefen DVI splitter.

Well, this doesn't really surprise me, but actually I appreciate the honesty instead of leading us on the way DVDO does. Looks like I will be ordering a pair of SpectraCal's CMS boxes as soom as they come out. Maybe they will have a twofer sale?

I think they will add it Bob, just not as urgent as fixing the current issues, i am sure others in the commercial industries have different issues that TV-One must also be working on. So an Add on feature like the Blend zone point gamma is not top priority.

I would wait for now Bob since the Gamma they proposed is for the Blend I think, or at least 90% sure, so the color management boxes you plan to order will only help the global gamma. I do not think it would help much. What really helps is getting the full field to be even in brightness at all IRE's , so the zone contrast at the blend edge is critical. I can't see getting it any other way, and tying into that is having both PJ's track greyscale and primaries and secondaries as close as possible, an exact match would be the best and we would then have no need for blend zone point gamma adjustments. the Y value(luminance) in the calibration should all match at all IRES i would think, correct?

Athanasios

[Boilermaker]

What really helps is getting the full field to be even in brightness at all IRE's , so the zone contrast at the blend edge is critical. I can't see getting it any other way, and tying into that is having both PJ's track greyscale and primaries and secondaries as close as possible, an exact match would be the best and we would then have no need for blend zone point gamma adjustments. the Y value(luminance) in the calibration should all match at all IRES i would think, correct?

I agree 100%. Even if TVOne does finally do it, it will probably be much later than the arrival of Spectracal's magic boxes and will probably not have as much adjustability. Hey, I like new toys!

Especially since my XGLC's don't have zone control like the Marquee's (they have a side to side and top to bottom balance control), I have a method in mind that I want to try with the Spectracal's:
If I put the sensor exactly in the middle of the blend zone, I can adjust for a perfect gray scale on one projector, and then get a perfect match on luminance for each color and IRE on the second projector. That way, not only would I get a perfect gray scale, but a perfect match in luminance because the absolute values of the sensor readings will be repeatable. It will probably take a day, but well worth it. what do you think?

Two questions: I have a couple of the Moome Mux's but always assumed that the HDMI output did not pass the new lossless audio codecs. Is this correct, or are you getting them?

Also, I noticed you are using a 1.3 screen - Do you see any problems with the blend as a result?


Bob

[nashou66]

Originally Posted by Boilermaker

I agree 100%. Even if TVOne does finally do it, it will probably be much later than the arrival of Spectracal's magic boxes and will probably not have as much adjustability. Hey, I like new toys!

Especially since my XGLC's don't have zone control like the Marquee's (they have a side to side and top to bottom balance control), I have a method in mind that I want to try with the Spectracal's:
If I put the sensor exactly in the middle of the blend zone, I can adjust for a perfect gray scale on one projector, and then get a perfect match on luminance for each color and IRE on the second projector. That way, not only would I get a perfect gray scale, but a perfect match in luminance because the absolute values of the sensor readings will be repeatable. It will probably take a day, but well worth it. what do you think?

Two questions: I have a couple of the Moome Mux's but always assumed that the HDMI output did not pass the new lossless audio codecs. Is this correct, or are you getting them?

Also, I noticed you are using a 1.3 screen - Do you see any problems with the blend as a result?


Bob

I was thinking about trying that method as well(middle of screen), but with the marquee it has corner adjustments as well so if i wanted to match luminance id have to shift the IRE boxes to each corner or use the full field and then also move the probe to each location, 3 all together for at least the blend zone then 3 more for the outer edges if i really wanted to.

But the problem with using our consumer probes is , are we getting the exact same distance and angle to each tube that will affect the readings? This is even with facing the screen since we need the meter close to get a better reading . even with an Eye One pro i cant get ti the same each time, i did an experiment to see how close i could position and re position the probe to get the same lumen level for the initial Greyscale using Calman. No matter what I did i could not get the same reading for light output off the 100% IRE by re positioning the meter to what i thought was the same placement.
Now if I had a Klien meter where i could position it further away i am sure i would do much better.
I wonder if there is a place i could rent one for a week. I should call Spectracal they might have a rental program.


I am not sure about the Mux and audio, i use the analog outs, i have no HDMI receiver/pre pro.

Regarding the 1.3 screen, I have no comparison to a unity gain so I am not sure. I just assume from what Andy and others have said including Hurley Screen company, that for a blend you need a true unity gain to help eliminate the blend zone.

Athanasios

[Boilermaker]

even with an Eye One pro i cant get ti the same each time,

Exactly! I have found the same thing - That's why if I put it in the middle and never move it or unplug it, I should be able to get accurate repeatable readings. Also if it is in the center (close to the screen) there should be no reflective differences between the two projectors with my 1.0 screen. Even with a screen that has some gain, they should be identical as the angles are identical.

Bob


Bob

[nashou66]

Originally Posted by Boilermaker

Exactly! I have found the same thing - That's why if I put it in the middle and never move it or unplug it, I should be able to get accurate repeatable readings. Also if it is in the center (close to the screen) there should be no reflective differences between the two projectors with my 1.0 screen. Even with a screen that has some gain, they should be identical as the angles are identical.


Bob

But don't you think that since the edges are not as bright you'll get a weird effect of having the 1/4 and 3/4 section of screen too bright?

Hmmm you gave me an idea i should try. set grey scale using the normal method for the one PJ(center of that half) then adjust the contrast zone modulation per Craigs method. then do the other PJ the same way. then afterwards use your method and redo greyscale on both PJ's using the center of the whole screen one PJ at a time with edge Blend off.

Then if need be fine tune Zone contrast to taste for each PJ individualy.

Or Just call Ken Whitcomb or Craig Rounds

Athanasios

[Boilermaker]

But don't you think that since the edges are not as bright you'll get a weird effect of having the 1/4 and 3/4 section of screen too bright?

Not really that concerned about it, as I never really noticed much of a difference before I started blending. That tells me that while absolute differences might not be noticed, slight differences are easily noticed in the blend zone, so I'll make the sacrifice outside the zone.

Or Just call Ken Whitcomb or Craig Rounds

I guess this is a way I can justify the cost of the Spectracal's!!!

[Boilermaker]

Gino - I'm dying of curiosity! How is your new setup coming along?

Bob

[Gino AUS]

Sorry Bob, ran out of time before my brothers visit unfortunately. He leaves sunday so will resume again then.