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playing BD disc with MPC - Home Cinema with bit-perfect HD audio over an analog sound

50K views 167 replies 28 participants last post by  renethx 
#1 ·
I haven't been able to play my BD disc with my recently purchased Arcsoft TotalMedia Theatre v3. TMT3 doesn't recognize all of the features of my soundcard, which uses an Echo Audio 'AudioFire 8' FireWire interface. When I originally downloaded TMT3 (v3.0.1.180) I was able to play a BD disc, but it only gave me the option of either headphones or '2 channel stereo'. Windows 7 recognizes the AudioFire 8 as an 8-channel 24-bit, 96KHz audio device and it works fine with all other A/V software applications like W7MC, WMP12, JRMC15, foobar2000, VLC and MPC HomeCinema. I updated TMT3 to v3.0.1.185 and now it only offers S/PDIF output.


I asked for advice in the Arcsoft thread and haven't been able to get the problem resolved (I have left a message on Arcsoft's forums and have a support ticket with their support). However, renethx mentioned an alternative solution in this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post19369109


He wrote: "You can play a BD disc directly (with AnyDVD HD or DVDFab Passkey running in the background). MPC HomeCinema plays the main title immediately (with good probability )."


He also provided an attachment for a utility (the modified version of MPC Mpeg Source splitter (MpegSplitter.ax)) that works with Arcsofts Audio Decoder HD.


I don't want to hijack the Arcsoft thread with more questions about this, so I decided to ask for more details here.


So, how can you play a BD disc directly with MPC HomeCinema?


I have the Spark007 codec pack installed and it is set as per the recommendations in the Windows 7 Media Center: Setup Guide, Knowledge Base & Support thread.


Do I need any other codecs or changes to my Shark007 settings?


How do I utilize MpegSplitter.ax?


Thanks in advance for any help...
 
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#2 ·
I think the thread title is not good. Playing BD with MPC-HC is actually easy: insert a disc with AnyDVD HD or DVDFab Passkey running, select File menu > Open DVD and point to the optical drive; then the main title is automatically played back (but the success rate is not 100%; sometimes a wrong title may be selected). The difficult part is how to get bit-perfect HD audio with an *analog sound card*. So a proper title would be "Playing BD disc with MPC HomeCinema with bit-perfect HD audio over an analog sound card".
 
#3 ·
Updated on April 13, 2011

Table of Contents
  • Registering LAV Splitter 32-bit for BD movies, M2TS and MKV
  • Registering ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD of TMT3 Build 185
  • Using ReClock
  • Playing back BD movie/M2TS/MKV with MPC HomeCinema
  • Playing back BD movie/M2TS/MKV with Zoom Player Home MAX v8.00
  • Playing back MKV with WMC
  • Checking the filters used
  • Checking the output audio stream to the audio device

1. Registering LAV Splitter 32-bit for BD movies, M2TS and MKV .


- Download LAV Filter 32-bit and unzip it to a folder.

- Register LAV Splitter by right clicking install_splitter.bat in the folder, then clicking "Run as administrator".

- Set LAV Splitter to the Windows default source/splitter filter for BD movies, M2TS and MKV by merge the following in the registry:


For Windows 32-bit:
Code:
Code:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\\Media Type\\Extensions\\.mpls]
"Source Filter"="{B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338}"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\\Media Type\\Extensions\\.m2ts]
"Source Filter"="{B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338}"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\\Media Type\\Extensions\\.mkv]
"Source Filter"="{B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338}"
For Windows 64-bit:
Code:
Code:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\\Wow6432Node\\Media Type\\Extensions\\.mpls]
"Source Filter"="{B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338}"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\\Wow6432Node\\Media Type\\Extensions\\.m2ts]
"Source Filter"="{B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338}"

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\\Wow6432Node\\Media Type\\Extensions\\.mkv]
"Source Filter"="{B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338}"
{B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338} is GUID of LAV Splitter. This assures LAV Splitter is always used to play back MKV files in any DirectShow player (unless the player specifies another source/splitter filter).

2. Registering ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD of TMT3 Build 185 .


- Place the custom version of checkactivate.dll in C:\\Program Files\\ArcSoft\\TotalMedia Theatre 3\\Codec for Windows 32-bit, or C:\\Program Files (x86)\\ArcSoft\\TotalMedia Theatre 3\\Codec for Windows 64-bit.

- Open the file win.ini located in C:\\Windows with Notepad. Add the following lines at the end and save it (you may have to save it in another location, then copy it).

Code:
Code:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\ArcSoft\\MPEG Codec\\Decoder Setting\\]
AudioOutputMode=17
AudioDynamicRange=1
This is for normal DynamicRange and 7.1 speakers. Other choices are

Code:
Code:
AudioDynamicRange:
0: Light
1: Normal
2: Threaded

AudioOutputMode:
0,1,2,5: Stereo
6,13: 5.1 Channels
17: 7.1 Channels
16: S/PDIF
- Register ASAudioHD.ax (and whatever filters you want to use, e.g. ASVid.ax, ArcSoft Video Decoder [for H.264, VC-1, MPEG-2]). ( How to register a DirectShow filter .)

Remarks
  • TMT3 185 is the only build of TMT3 that supports bit-perfect decode outside TMT3, and none of TMT5 build support bit-perfect decode. Here is a link to Trial (enough if your purpose is use decoders outside TMT):
    ArcSoft TotalMedia Theatre 3 Platinum 3.0.1.185 Trial
  • Read the post below Minimum ArcSoft DLLs if you don't want to keep the entire TMT.

  • So called "wrapper" (ASAudioHD+.ax) won't work with TMT3 185. Forget about that and use only win.ini.

3. Using ReClock .


You have to use WASAPI exclusive mode via ReClock to avoid Windows Audio Engine resampling audio streams without your permission.
)


- Install ReCock (the latest version is found in the SlySoft forum ).

- Open Configuration. Audio Interfaces to use for PCM: WASAPI Exclusive. PCM Output Format: 24 bit int padded to 32 (this depends on the audio device).


4. Playing back BD movie/M2TS/MKV with MPC HomeCinema .


MPC HomeCinema is the easiest media player to configure. All what you need are:


- Options > Internal Filters > Source Filters: uncheck "Matroska" and "MPEG PS/TS/PVA", so that LAV Splitter is used for MKV, M2TS and MPLS.

- Options > External Filters: add ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD and set it to "Prefer".


Of course you can add any video decoder in External Filters as well and set it to Prefer if you want to use it. To play a BD disc, File > Open DVD and point to the drive.

5. Playing back BD movie/M2TS/MKV with Zoom Player Home MAX v8.00 ( Free and Professional do not support BD movie playback ).


In Smart Play, add LAV Splitter for Blu-ray Play List, MPEG-2 Stream and MKV, and ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD for AC3 and DTS. To decode DTS-HD properly, add the following media subtype

Code:
Code:
{00002001-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
in ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD for both AC3 and DTS. Similarly, to decode TrueHD, add

Code:
Code:
{4288B843-610B-4E15-A53B-43007FCFF614}
for AC3. This is because Smart Play of Zoom Player supports only media subtypes stored in the configuration and you have to add these uncommon media types used to connect to ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD manually.

6. Playing back MKV with WMC .


Playback with WMC internal player is practically restricted to MKV. M2TS works by disabling Media Foundation, but you can't select video decoder. BD movie is not supported. Moreover you can't use ReClock so that audio stream is subject to resampling by Windows Audio Engine. Keep these in mind.


First you have to raise the merit value of ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD higher than ffdshow Audio Decoder (0xFF800001). Setting it to 0xFF80000 is enough. Next append ffdshow Audio Decoder ( why ) by enabling Codecs > Uncompressed: all supported, then select Output > Connect to: DirectSound (untick "Apply only to S/PDIF"). To avoid audio processing by ffdshow, disable all processors and make sure to check all of "16-bit integer" to "32-bit floating point".


7. Checking the filters used .

Use GraphStudio (with proppage.dll and DirectShowSpy.dll). This gives complete information on the filter graph.

8. Checking the output audio stream to the audio device .


- Install MediaInfo. Go to E(the drive letter of the optical drive):\\BDMV\\STREAM and select the largest M2TS file (usually the main title). Right click it and select MediaInfo. You will see the information of the video/audio/subtitle streams.

- Click the ReClock icon in the system tray. ReClock Porperties is opened. Check Audio Stream.

- If sample rate, bit depth, and channel count are the same as those seen in MediaInfo, then perhaps you succeeded in decoding the HD audio track bit-perfect.


The screenshot below is taken when Surround_DTS-HD_MA_7.1.mkv (96kHz 24-bit 7.1 DTS-HD MA audio track) is played back with WMC internal player.



 
#4 ·
renethx- thanks for all the info. I haven't had a chance to try everything out, but will as soon as I can free up some time.


Earlier this week, I got a promotional email from Nero for their Nero Multimedia Suite 10 Platinum HD. I use Nero8 as a burning application, but I never install their other stuff because it all seems to be crapware. Has anyone ever tried their program for Blu-ray playback? Does it have the same limitations as TMT3 and PowerDVD?
 
#5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by greggplummer /forum/post/19373843


Earlier this week, I got a promotional email from Nero for their Nero Multimedia Suite 10 Platinum HD. I use Nero8 as a burning application, but I never install their other stuff because it all seems to be crapware. Has anyone ever tried their program for Blu-ray playback? Does it have the same limitations as TMT3 and PowerDVD?

In general every AACS-compliant BD player must downsample HD audio to 48/16 if a non-PAP sound device (like yours) is used. It's an AACS requirement and there must not be an exception.


But I have no idea how Nero 10 is.
 
#7 ·
Renethx, thanks for the detailed post. Couple of questions.


1. In MPC-HC, should I uncheck all the filters under the "Internal Filters" section? To make sure MPC uses only the filters selected in the External Filters section?


2. For MKVs with HD audio, just use the hacked MatroskaSplitter.ax instead? And merge the following into registry?

Code:
Code:
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\\Media Type\\Extensions\\.mkv]
"Source Filter"="{0A68C3B5-9164-4A54-AFAF-995B2FF0E0D4}"
 
#8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 /forum/post/19374297


Renethx, thanks for the detailed post. Couple of questions.


1. In MPC-HC, should I uncheck all the filters under the "Internal Filters" section? To make sure MPC uses only the filters selected in the External Filters section?


2. For MKVs with HD audio, just use the hacked MatroskaSplitter.ax instead? And merge the following into registry?

Code:
Code:
[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\\Media Type\\Extensions\\.mkv]
"Source Filter"="{0A68C3B5-9164-4A54-AFAF-995B2FF0E0D4}"

1. No, there is no need to untick all the internal filters. The priority is given in this order:


1. Filter in a higher position in the "External Filters" list that is set to "Prefer".

2. Internal filter of MPC-HC that is enabled.

3. Filter registered and specified in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\DirectShow\\Preferr ed (can be configured with Win7DSFilterTweaker)

4. Filter registered with a higher merit value.


The "preferred" filter in External Filters (the one in the highest position if there are multiple competing "preferred" filters) is always used as long as its pins are connected successfully even if the competing internal filter is enabled.


2. You don't have to hack the MPC Matroska Source filter (internal/external) to use ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD for DTS-HD decoding. I experimented and confirmed that.


If you use MPC HomeCinema, just make sure that "Matroska" is ticked in Options > Internal Filters > Source Filters. If you use the standalone MPC Matroska Source filter in another DirectShow player (e.g. the 7MC internal player), you may need to merge that value to the registry, or you may be able to specify the source filter for MKV inside the player for some players like Zoom Player.
 
#9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx /forum/post/19373943


In general every AACS-compliant BD player must downsample HD audio to 48/16 if a non-PAP sound device (like yours) is used. It's an AACS requirement and there must not be an exception.


But I have no idea how Nero 10 is.

A little off topic... but, you'd think they'd accept soundcard->analog out as good as a protected path. The only way to copy the digital signal would be to tap the I2S lines and that would be pretty difficult for 99.9% of the users. Otherwise, you'd have to record the analog signal, which is impossible to stop. Oh well. As for tapping the I2S lines, it would be just as easy to do so with an AVR as it is with a soundcard.
 
#10 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by greggplummer /forum/post/19374638


A little off topic... but, you'd think they'd accept soundcard->analog out as good as a protected path. The only way to copy the digital signal would be to tap the I2S lines and that would be pretty difficult for 99.9% of the users. Otherwise, you'd have to record the analog signal, which is impossible to stop. Oh well. As for tapping the I2S lines, it would be just as easy to do so with an AVR as it is with a soundcard.

AACS LA considers PC as an open system. They ask every user-accessible bus, including PCI bus (many sound cards use this bus to get audio streams from the system memory), PCI Express bus, HD Audio bus, to be protected to transmit HD audio streams, otherwise HD audio must be downsampled. This sounds ridiculous, but is a fact.


Moreover not every AACS-compliant BD player supports every PAP sound device. For example, ASUS Xonar HDAV 1.3 supports PAP, but is supported only by TMT.
 
#11 ·
renethx this guide is better than the older one.


I'll add that if you don't want to have TMT3 installed in your system but still have DTS-HD audio decoded you can create a folder anywhere you want and then copy these files into it from the TMT3 installation folder.


ASAudioHD.ax

DtsDec.dll

dtsdecoder.dll

MagCore.dll

MagPCMac.dll

MagUIEngine.dll

MagUIInter.dll

and also the custom version checkactivate.dll


This way can uninstall TMT3 and still have DTS-HD decoded.


Thanks for all the help and awesome guide and "tweaking" skills!
 
#12 ·
Renethx,

Maybe you can help me. I'm getting a "Audio format not support by this hardware/driver" 48000Hz, 6 channels, 24bit when I'm trying to decode DTS-MA (m2ts and mkv) video files. I've verified that the every step above is done correctly; Arcsoft HD audio codec is from .185, Reclock is 1.8.7.1, and MPC-HC is loading all the correct filters.


Reclock is set to Wasapi exclusive and audio device is set to Nvidia HD Audio. I have installed the lastest Nvidia HD Audio driver (1.1.9.0) from Nvidia's website. I'm using a Nvidia GT240 video card.


My receiver is a HK 254 and definitely can accept up to 24/192 multichannel pcm sources via hdmi.


Any ideas?


Edit

Nevermind, I messed up this step "PCM Output Format: 24 bit int padded to 32 (this depends on the audio device)." :p working now
 
#13 ·
I finally have a chance to start working on this, but before I try anything I have a few questions. I'm still at the stage where I'm downloading all the necessary files.


The instructions (above in the 3rd post) for Part 1, provide a link for MpegSource.ax. This is actually a link to MpegSplitter.zip and when you extract the files from this you get 'MpegSplitter.ax modified'. Is this what we should use? Or, is this the wrong link? If it is correct, should it be renamed 'MpegSplitter.ax' or 'MpegSource.ax'?


The instructions for registering the '.ax' files include the attachment 'GraphStudio.zip'. This zip file includes 'FilterGraphSpy.dll'. However, it also says to download the latest version of 'FilterGraphSpy.dll' and provides a link that takes you to 'DirectShowSpy.dll'. Are 'FilterGraphSpy.dll' and DirectShowSpy.dll' the same thing (maybe the author renamed it to something more descriptive)?


That's as far as I've gone. I'm not ready to go any further until I know these answers.


Thanks!
 
#14 ·
Just rename 'MpegSplitter.ax modified' to 'MpegSplitter.ax' and use it.


Use DirectShowSpy.dll instead of FilterGraphSpy.dll.
 
#16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthog /forum/post/19375429


renethx this guide is better than the older one.


I'll add that if you don't want to have TMT3 installed in your system but still have DTS-HD audio decoded you can create a folder anywhere you want and then copy these files into it from the TMT3 installation folder.


ASAudioHD.ax

DtsDec.dll

dtsdecoder.dll

MagCore.dll

MagPCMac.dll

MagUIEngine.dll

MagUIInter.dll

and also the custom version checkactivate.dll


This way can uninstall TMT3 and still have DTS-HD decoded.


Thanks for all the help and awesome guide and "tweaking" skills!

My TMT3 installation must be a little different than yours. First, I have already installed TMT3 and the program's installer was an "exe" file (as was the update to v185). How do you find the installation folder?


I can't find many of the files listed above in the ArcSoft codec folder.


These files don't exist in my TMT3 installation and they don't come up after performing a Windows search:


MagCore.dll

MagPCMac.dll

MagUIEngine.dll

MagUIInter.dll


And, 'dtsdecoder.dll' was actually named 'dtsdecoderdll.dll' on my system.


What version of TMT3 were you using? I originally purchased v180, which is the current version you get after choosing the BUY button. Then when you run TMT3, you are prompted to upgrade. The upgrade takes you to v185.


Thanks for your help!
 
#17 ·
The installation folder Nighthog means is


C:\\Program Files\\ArcSoft\\TotalMedia Theatre 3


All Mag...dll files are located in this folder.


You first install TMT3, update it to 185, copy the necessary files in another location, then uninstall TMT3. But if you are going to use TMT3, you don't have to do this.
 
#18 ·
I'm not having much luck. I'm not sure if this is critical in this situation, but when I try to register 'DirectShowSpy.dll' (using InstallFilter.exe as described in the linked post) I get an error that says it couldn't load the file. However, the older 'FilterGraphSpy.dll' does register. I was also able to register 'MpegSplitter.ax'.


I'm not sure what you mean by "Merge the following in the registry:" I ran regedit and navigated to 'Computer\\HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\\Media Type\\Extensions\\.m2ts' and saw that "Source Filter"="{1365BE7A-C86A-473C-9A41-C0A6E82C9FA3}" is there. I confirmed with GraphStudio that the CLSID listed for 'MPC - Mpeg Source (Gabest)' was the same. BTW, I'm running W7 64-bit, if that makes any difference, so I actually ran 'graphstudio64.exe'.


I also edited my 'win.ini' file. However, the choices for AudioOutputMode shows "6,13: 5.1 Channels". Does this mean you can enter AudioOutputMode=6 or AudioOutoputMode=13 or do you just use AudioOutputMode=6,13?


I registered both ASAudioHD.ax and ASVid.ax, but when I try setting the external filter for MPC HomeCinema to 'ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD', I can't find 'ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD' or any other ArcSoft filter in the list.


Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it.
 
#19 ·
Here is a new list of the minimum DLLs to use ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD (and ArcSoft Video Decoder) of TMT3.


If you don't want to keep the entire TMT3, you can copy only minimum DLLs from the folder C:\\Program Files\\ArcSoft\\TotalMedia Theatre 3\\Codec as in the following:

1. Install TMT3.
2. Update it to 185 (this is important to assure 24-bit audio output).


Here is a link to
ArcSoft TotalMedia Theatre 3 Platinum 3.0.1.185 Trial
in case you can't find it (Trial is enough of course).
3. Create a new folder, say, C:\\ProgramData\\ArcSoft Codec. Copy


- ASAudioHD.ax (if you want to use ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD)

- ASVid.ax (if you want to use ArcSoft Video Decoder)

- checkactivate.dll (the critical file to use ArcSoft codecs outside TMT3)


to the new folder. Register ASAudioHD.ax and ASVid.ax.
4. This is an important step to get ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD to output LPCM audio streams with correct channel count, sample rate and bit depth. Open the file win.ini located in C:\\Windows with Notepad. Add the following lines at the end and save it (you may have to save it in another location, then copy and paste it).

Code:
Code:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\ArcSoft\\MPEG Codec\\Decoder Setting\\]
AudioOutputMode=17
AudioDynamicRange=1
This is for normal DynamicRange and 7.1 speakers. Other choices are

Code:
Code:
AudioDynamicRange:
0: Light
1: Normal
2: Threaded

AudioOutputMode:
0,1,2,5: Stereo
6,13: 5.1 Channels
17: 7.1 Channels
16: S/PDIF
5. ASAudioHD.ax and ASVid.ax are not enough to decode various codecs. Copy the following DLLs to the folder C:\\ProgramData\\ArcSoft Codec:


- Ac3HDDecoderDll.dll for AC3/TrueHD

- DdpDec71.dll for Dolby Digital Plus

- dtsdecoderdll.dll for DTS/DTS-HD


- ASH264Vid.dll for H.264

- ASVC1Vid.dll for VC-1

- ASMPEGVid.dll for MPEG-2


The total folder size is only 5.3MB.

6. Uninstall TMT3.


Alternatively just download:
ArcSoft Codec.zip
that includes all 9 files (checkactivate.dll, ASVid.ax, ASAudioHD.ax and all six ArcSoft dlls), unzip it place it in an appropriate place (I prefer C:\\ProgramData), the register ASVid.ax and ASAudioHD.ax and you are done.
 
#20 ·
@greggplummer


Apparently something is fundamentally wrong.
Let me check with 64-bit OS...
 
#22 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd /forum/post/19420839


@greggplummer: The ArcSoft decoders are 32 bit only so they will not show up in 64 bit apps. You would need to use 32 bit for GraphStudio, MPC-HC, DirectShowSpy, etc.

Thanks vladd, that helped a lot. After following these instructions, but making sure I used the 32-bit versions, I was able to see the ArcSoft filters listed as external filters for MPC HomeCinema.


I continued with the instructions and installed ffdshow and ReClock.
 
#23 ·
I've played several BD discs. I have AnyDVD HD installed and I'm using the 32-bit version of MPC HomeCinema. Here are the results:


Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince - no menus, no sound, video good

Filters -

Analog out 1-8 (AudioFire 8)

Enhanced Video Renderer (custom presenter)

ffdshow Audio Decoder: Audio - English, Dolby TrueHD, 48.0kHz, 6 chn, 640.0 kbits/s (1100,fd,00) - TrueHD, 5.1, 48000 Hz (libavcodec)

MPC Video Decoder


Planet Earth - no menus, sound good, video good

Filters -

Analog out 1-8 (AudioFire 8)

Enhanced Video Renderer (custom presenter)

ffdshow Audio Decoder: Audio - English, Dolby Digital, 48.0 kHz, 6 chn, 448.0 kbits/s (1100,fd,00) - AC3, 5.1, 48000, 448 kbps (liba52)

MPC Video Decoder


Shine A Light (Martin Scorsese's Rolling Stones film) - no menus, sound good, video good

Filters -

Analog out 1-8 (AudioFire 8)

Enhanced Video Renderer (custom presenter)

ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD

MPC Video Decoder


I've also generated a filter graph of the Harry Potter BD using GraphStudio and attached the screen capture to this post.


As you can see these results are pretty promising. I'll be very happy once I get this working with TrueHD. I'd also really like to be able to navigate these disc with the menus and possibly play some of the special features, etc.
 
#25 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by greggplummer /forum/post/19421792


Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince - no menus, no sound, video good

Filters -

Analog out 1-8 (AudioFire 8)

Enhanced Video Renderer (custom presenter)

ffdshow Audio Decoder: Audio - English, Dolby TrueHD, 48.0kHz, 6 chn, 640.0 kbits/s (1100,fd,00) - TrueHD, 5.1, 48000 Hz (libavcodec)

MPC Video Decoder

Does anyone know why I can't hear any audio when playing a Blu-ray with the Dolby TrueHD track?
 
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