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Customer Reports About Their Professional Calibrations

319K views 941 replies 361 participants last post by  hdtvluvr 
#1 · (Edited)
The first post in this thread a list of links to reports by owners about the results of having their RPTV, CRT, or FP displays professionally calibrated. The second post does the same thing for flat panel displays.

NOTE: The return of AVS from Huddler back to vBulletin caused some serious link problems especially in post number two. Thanks to work done by Woobieizer, I've just replaced all the links in posts one and two with corrected links. If anyone encounters a link that doesn't work, please PM me directly. Thanks Woobieizer.

Quote:

Some owners have posted their calibration reports in this thread, but it's much better for other owners if those reports are posted in a thread dedicated to the model display that's been calibrated.

The list was started in August of 2006, but includes a few reports done earlier. To have your report included in these lists, it's important to indicate who calibrated your display. Where possible, the lists are organized by model, and the AVS user name of the calibrator. If an audio calibration was done, that's also indicated.




Quote:

If you find reports that I've missed, or if you have had a calibration done yourself, please PM me or post here giving the location of the report. I will try my best to keep this list updated.


Links to reports about direct view and projection (front and rear) displays check this post. For flat panel (Plasma and LCD) reports check Post#2.For information about members who were unhappy with their results check Post#3.

Contact Information:

It's easy to contact anyone who is registered at AVS. If you click on their "User Name" in the upper left hand corner of any message that they post, you can either send a personal message, or if they have listed one, visit their personal web page. Almost all of the professional calibrators who's work is discussed in this list have included their web page URL as part of their AVS profile.

I have no contact information for the calibrators who are not members of AVS. Contacting their customers might be one way to reach them.

A quick way to find a post written by any AVS member is to click on "Search" followed by a click on "Advanced Search". Then fill in the "Search by User" box and click on "Search Now".

A way to find a calibrator in your area is to use these AVS threads.

ISF Calibrators, where are you located? Please post here!

You can use the "Search this Thread" option to narrow the list down to your state. Many of the best calibrators travel extensively so you may be closer to one than you think.


Is Factory Calibration Possible?

Comments by professional calibrators:
UMR thinks it's possible, expensive, and incomplete.

Are "free" with your purchase calibrations worth it?
Best Buy Geek Squad for ERosenbrg
Work done for a fee, may not be the Geek Squad:
BB for Pannus

Reports for CRT Direct View and RPTV:

CRT Direct View Sets:
Chad B for crosstiningforks
Chad B for DJF(NJ)
Chad B for Mark Goetz
Chad B for MrGonk
Chad B for Q of BanditZ
Chad B for Shadowknight
UMR for lgwinn -- Including Audio

CRT RPTV Sets:
Chad B for buckeye1010
Chad B for nallja
Chad B for Spall
Chad B for tonkaxl
Chad B for Tulipa
Chad B for viper99ta -- Including Audio
Chuck Williams for davidwb
Gregg Loewen for A9A1C1
Gregg Loewen for Etgts
Gregg Loewen for Fatboy Gixxer
Gregg Loewen for twxabin
Kevin Miller for BFJ 96
Mr Bob on Cleaning Post#4985 through Post#5018
Mr Bob for alwv
Mr Bob for AutoengFL
Mr Bob for brentsg
Mr Bob for bschus9600
Mr Bob for cheebiek
Mr Bob for Don O'Neill -- Repair
Mr Bob for crauen
Mr Bob for drumhedz -- Repair
Mr Bob for GA17ND10
Mr Bob for HBAngel
Mr Bob for joebarnhart
Mr Bob for KKop
Mr Bob for Iil4cyl
Mr Bob for mdelman
Mr Bob for P in Pgh -- Repair
Mr Bob for RobMason Part I
Mr Bob for RobMason Part II
Mr Bob for ScoHo
Mr Bob for strler
Mr Bob for Trigger445
Mr Bob for WERA689
Mr Bob for wmwilber

Reports for Microchip RPTV:

HPxx80n:
UMR's report.
UMR for gtgray -- Including Audio
UMR for TMSKILZ -- Including Audio

JVC Pro-Dila HD-PxxR1U :
UMR for bluevelvet86 -- Including Audio
UMR for hodges69 -- Including Audio
UMR for damon's friend - Including Audio

Mitsubishi L65A90 LaserVue:
UMR for Joe C5
UMR for john Stephens

Mitsubishi 62725:
Les H for Keyser Sose

Mitsubishi 73727:
SethS for millerwill

Mitsubishi WDxx732:
UMR for Cap'n Preshoot
UMR commenting for Cap'n Preshoot
UMR for nrockwell -- Including Audio
Gary(Unknown at AVS) for Yammyha

Mitsubishi WDxx735:
donnymac51 for Black2002ws6

Mitsubishi WDxx831:
Chuck Williams for CHAS ZOSS
UMR for Midnite1971
UMR for PARASITE -- Including Audio
Unknown for jnelson2000

Mitsubishi WDxx833:
David Abrams for ALTANertive

Mitsubishi WDxx837:
Gregg Loewen for Evil Euro

Mitsubishi WDxx738/838:
Gregg Loewen for ElwayLite

Mitsubishi WDxx740/840 Series:
Chad B for sup1judge

Samsung HL-M and HL-N models:
Chuck Williams for iamjemhadar
David Abrams for chris062
Eliab for BobbyCor

Samsung HL-Pxx63W:
SethS for htwaits
SethS for htwaits -- Part II

Samsung HL-Pxx74W:
Eliab for Bob4action

Samsung HL-Pxx85W:
UMR for Iceblade -- Including Audio

Samsung HL-RxxyyW:
Bill Hergonson for cetesq
David Abrams for factorz
David Abrams for Halco
David Abrams for Pixguy
David Abrams for StallionRe
Eliab for bastard
Eliab for guapote
Eliab for jameskollar
Eliab for rridtx
RayJr for MV349 -- Including Audio

Samsung HL-S5679W LED:
Barry928 for stephenpackers1@
David Abrams for ikishk
David Abrams for mstang89
David Abrams for rolandschemers
cheezmo for JMCL
Eliab for Eliab
Eliab for tke800
LMDA1 (Mr. Rivera) for luidoly
UMR for jrdnyquist

Samsung HL-S6767W:
David Abrams and Eliab for gadgtman
UMR for chazanova
UMR for cjlawson

Samsung HL-S7178W:
David Abrams for bearchan
David Abrams for Bobcel
David Abrams for hearth
David Abrams for rnick1976
David Abrams for RockStrongo
David Abrams for SonnyAZ
Eliab for rnick1976
Eliab for Gizmo Joe
Eliab for SheldonT
Eliab for stixx
Gregg Loewen for calentz
UMR for BruceOmega -- Including Audio
UMR for mistermad

Samsung HL-Sxx87W:
Chad B for mata1eao
Chad B for peteranton
David Abrams for applejackaz
David Abrams for JimH-Seattle
David Abrams for KRB
David Abrams for rrldtx
David Abrams for selahsean
David Abrams for Tim Z
David Abrams and Eliab for hammersfd
Eliab for 4theheelz
Eliab for bimmerguy288
Eliab for Chris NIck
Eliab for iambroke
Eliab for Libertarian
Eliab for LowDUB
Eliab for mode101
Eliab for phatty
Eliab for rnick1976
Eliab for Skitch
Eliab for stumacdo
Eliab for Todd Fredericks
Eliab for tundrSQ
Eliab for wildmanD
Eliab for wizzack
Gregg Loewen for Rijax
Gregg Loewen for Brian Hakey
Kevin Anderson(Unknown at AVS) for Midnight55
UMR for apog
UMR for Dick Doll
UMR for fcarpcarp -- Including Audio
UMR for fcarpcarp Part II
UMR for mkozlows
UMR for trgraphics
UMR for laserguns

Samsung HL-Sxx88W:
Barry928 for Rodn'Reel
colinp for colinp
David Abrams for Quisp
David Abrams for TWD
David Abrams and Eliab for miantosca
Eliab for CPTuell
Eliab for dominionXX
Eliab for kidkoala
Eliab for mark2061
Eliab for RMSko
Eliab for scsiraid
Eliab for slogun
UMR for da_burl
UMR for Fargex -- Including Audio
UMR for nikolausp
UMR for texviddy
Zygmunt for the boss35

Samsung HL-Txx87-89W LED:
David Abrams for addrew68
David Abrams for chadje
David Abrams for dpickens
David Abrams for larrygillen
David Abrams for motorheadache
David Abrams for shazza
David Abrams for socalmark
David Abrams for Tim Hess
Eliab for JustinHEMI05
Eliab for sgeorge999
Randy Tomlinson for the record.

Samsung HL-T7288W:
David Abrams for boomer8800
Unknown for jnelson2000

Samsung HLxxA750 LED:
Gregg Loewen for BobF
Gregg Loewen for twxabin
nicholc2 for rdorman
UMR for rydenfan -- Including Audio

Sony KP-57WV700:
Eliab for maxman -- Seperate Audio

Sony A2000 (SXRD):
Chad B for MiracleMan
Chad B for rbh406
Chad B for squeeblez
Michael TLV for REFLEX
Tony Probst (Unknown at AVS) for Bob Fosse
UMR for Bob Fosse -- Including Partial Audio
UMR for Bob Fosse -- Including Audio Part II after upgrade
UMR for geodon005
UMR for j2clark -- Including Audio
UMR for jackie C -- Including Audio
UMR for tirwin -- Including Audio
UMR for Tweaver1 -- Including Audio
Xygmont Wojewoda for davidvogt@comcas

Sony A3000 (SXRD):
Chad B for BarryB1124 -- See also Post #11832
UMR for fgm4275 -- Including Audio

Sony KDS-RxxXBR1 (SXRD):
Chad B for bitwize -- With Velux
Chad B for DarinA
Chad B for rlb
Randy Tomlinson for dreamtheatre1974
Rayjr for earwicker7
UMR for Mac11700 -- Including Audio
UMR for Randy M -- Including Audio
UMR for ThePrisoner -- Including Audio

Sony KDS-RxxXBR2 (SXRD):
Bill Hergonson for RRichardson
Chad B for Gibbie
Chad B for maximum360 -- With Velux
David Abrams for pbmpharmacist
Les H for mabock
Michael TLV for mondo3 -- Including Audio
Randy Tomlinson for cadyguy
UMR for agibbs -- Including Audio
UMR for barryaz1 -- Including Audio
UMR for CDWebster -- Including Audio
UMR for chilidip -- Including Audio
UMR for circumstances -- Including Audio
UMR for craigmobley1 -- Including Audio
UMR for digital_b_avs -- Including Audio
UMR for domingos1965
UMR for dominica -- Including Audio
UMR for evcook -- Including Audio
UMR for EricBergan -- Including Audio
UMR for ErichGS -- Including Audio
UMR for HD AV -- Including Audio
UMR for heavyharmonies -- Including Audio
UMR for hnr
UMR for jbug -- Including Audio
UMR for JeffCar -- Including Audio
UMR for jg! -- Including Audio
UMR for JMCecil
UMR for johnaussie 1 -- Including Audio
UMR for johnaussie 2 -- Including Audio
UMR for KevinofCMR
UMR for Mac11700 -- Including Audio
UMR for marc454 -- Including Audio
UMR for mr. wally -- Including Audio
UMR for MsVana -- Including Audio
UMR for padd54 -- Including Audio
UMR for pwiss -- Including Audio
UMR for RobbinMerritt
UMR for Sharpie9000 -- Including Audio
UMR for sjv -- Including Audio
UMR for strutter -- Including Audio
UMR for tgaines14
UMR for the_bull -- Including Audio
UMR for venpra -- Including Audio
UMR for Weyland Yutani -- Including Audio
UMR for whiskerbiscuit -- Including Audio
UMR for Wolo -- Including Audio
UMR for XBR2Mike with Audio coming soon!
UMR on the 70" XBR2

Sony Qualia 006 (SXRD):
UMR for C-Dub006 -- Including Audio
UMR for RonB63 -- Including Audio

Front Projectors:

Barco 808s
Chad B for Don Berry

Epson 6500ub:
UMR for milacqua

Epson Pro Cinema 1080UB:
UMR for Thrang -- Including Audio

Epson 8350:
Luke Kamp for carp

JVC RS10 / HD-350:
UMR for maximus1971 -- Including Audio

JVC RS20 / HD-750:
Chuck Williams for nathan-h
Gregg Loewen for dave7
Gregg Loewen for gonzalc3
UMR for Cal68 -- including Audio
UMR for egrady Part I
UMR for egrady Part II -- including Audio
UMR for fugueness
UMR for imdocjoe -- Including Audio
UMR for Kensmith48 -- Including Audio
UMR for nathan-h
UMR for millerwill
UMR for R Harkness
UMR for Ralph Potts
UMR for rolette
UMR for thrang
UMR for UMR

JVC RS25 / HD-950:
Chad B for 3no
Michael Osadciw for PLA
UMR for KB1
UMR for RalphoR

JVC RS35:
UMR for RMK! -- Including Audio

JVC RS45:
Chad B for Bitwize

JVC RS4810:
Chad B for DavidHir -- Including Audio

Mitsubishi:
Gregg Loewen for Hoooch

Panasonic:
SierraMikeBravo for marchewd -- Including Audio

Pioneer PRO-FPJ1 (JVC RS2):
Chad B for hts1
Gregg Loewen for Robert George

Sharp XV-Z17000
gerianne for flint

Sim2 Lumas:
UMR for Ash Sharma Part I
UMR for Ash Sharma Part II
UMR for Craig Peer
UMR for HealthNut
UMR for Jeffmac
UMR for owl1 -- Including Audio
UMR for thebland
UMR for Wireless_Mind -- Including Audio

Sony G70:
Chad B for BluDevil Part I
Chad B for BluDevil Part II

Sony VPL-HW30:
Chad B for BigCoolJesus

Sony VPL-VW50: Ruby
UMR for CharlesJ -- Including Audio

Sony VPL-VW60:
UMR for Jive Turkey
UMR for mwiebelhaus

Sony VPL-VW600ES:
Chad B for BCWookie -- Including Audio

Audio Only

UMR for Brucemck2
UMR for callot
UMR for RandyL999@aol.co
UMR for RonB63
UMR for Vashti
UMR advise for KevinofCMR
 
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1
#679 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ERosenbrg /forum/post/21672809


Anyone have a recommendation for a real calibrator here in the Los Angeles area?

David Abrams ( dave@avical.com ) is in the Los Angeles area. You can find reports on his work in the flat panel (post #2) lists in this thread.


Other well known calibrators do tours to your area. UMR ( jeff@accucalhd.com ) and D-Nice ( d-nice@audiovideofidelity.com ) are two examples. David might be cheaper because of travel costs.


Based on your report about your calibration, I've added a new category to page one and two of this thread.

Are "free" with your purchase calibrations worth it?


Thanks for posting.
 
#680 ·
@ ERosenbrg


I've had more than one pro work on my system. Even with his $100 "tour premium" on top of his basic pricing, UMR was still competitive in terms of price (in fact, a touch cheaper than some), and I got much better results.
 
#681 ·
I'm not sure how the mods would feel about this, but perhaps a sticky could be posted at least warning forum members about Best Buy calibrations. I have read of so many horror stories over the years from Best Buy and it bothers me people are spending their hard earned money on these clowns not realizing the high risks of a poor calibration. Sure, people need to do their homework, but it's still unjustified none the less. Just a thought.
 
#682 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir /forum/post/21677458


I'm not sure how the mods would feel about this, but perhaps a sticky could be posted at least warning forum members about Best Buy calibrations. I have read of so many horror stories over the years from Best Buy and it bothers me people are spending their hard earned money on these clowns not realizing the high risks of a poor calibration. Sure, people need to do their homework, but it's still unjustified none the less. Just a thought.

I've started a list of people who post about their "free" calibrations. I only read a few threads so I need all the help I can get.


I recall a recent post by an knowledgeable individual who was happy about the work that BB did on his display. I don't think that AVS would be interested in posting any kind of warning.
 
#683 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits /forum/post/21678030


I've started a list of people who post about their "free" calibrations. I only read a few threads so I need all the help I can get.


I recall a recent post by an knowledgeable individual who was happy about the work that BB did on his display. I don't think that AVS would be interested in posting any kind of warning.

I agree- Best Buy is not inherently bad when it comes to calibrations, it's just that they don't always have the "quality control" to ensure all of their calibrators know what they are doing. I'm sure some people have had excellent calibrations. Just the luck of the draw.
 
#684 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by avfanatic1 /forum/post/21678423


Just the luck of the draw.

That's why I haven't been linking reports that don't include a calibrater's user name here at AVS.


Now that I've set up a category for "free" calibrations and "for fee" Best Buy calibrations we'll have a way to track them.
 
#685 ·
I had my Toshiba 55SL417U calibrated recently by Doug Weil (droptheremote). He showed up on time and proceeded to setup his gear. He thoroughly explains what he is doing and why as well as educate you on the science behind color calibration. When he was finish I notice the colors were more natural and not over saturated. After he was finish I was telling him about this great burger joint down the road (Hubcap Grill) and he invited and treated me to lunch. (Thanks Doug!) I have to admit that at first I kind of freak out at first with the dimmer picture. But the more that I saw my newly calibrated picture and after watching a movie at the theater do I appreciate my tv more. I didn't realize how high my brightness was set before and all the detail that was lost. I highly recommend Doug for your calibration needs.
 
#686 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by risk235 /forum/post/21744482


I had my Toshiba 55SL417U calibrated recently by Doug Weil (droptheremote).

Thanks for your calibration report. I've included it in the flat panel (post #2) lists for LCD displays.
 
#687 ·
Chad did an outstanding job on my D530 earlier today. He arrived promptly and well prepared as always. This is the second set he has calibrated for me in the last year. Chad increased Peak light output to the 50 range, improved gamma, greyscale and color accuracy.


I am very pleased with the end result. The picture now has much more depth, pop and looks amazing. Overall it is a great experience because Chad is the consumate professional. Expert at his craft and very open to answering ?s about my set and others that he has calibrated. It is always a fun learning experience for me. He spent about 2 1/2 hours on my set and did not leave until I was completely satisfied. I highly recommend him for anyone wanting to get the most out of their display.
 
#688 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon /forum/post/21761013


Chad (Cand B @ AVS) did an outstanding job on my D530 earlier today.

Thanks for your calibration report. I've included it in the flat panel (post #2) lists for Samsung plasma displays.
 
#689 ·
Like all the other reviews, I wanted to give my glowing review of my calibration by Doug Weil. Doug spend over 5 hours thoroughly explaining each step of his expert calibration my Panasonic 65VT30. The combo of increasing my understanding of the technology, the benefits of the changes (before/after measurements), and most importantly the substantial improvement in my PQ (with good PQ before), greatly exceeded my expectations. Going into the calibration I expected the end result would maximize the potential of my display, but the post calibration PQ, has increased the PQ from good to outstanding.


I highly recommend Doug's services to anyone in his travel area in the Midwest and Southeast, etc. I'm fortunate that he's located in my metro areas of St. Louis. To top it off, Doug is a very nice guy and gave me advice in other areas as well
 
#690 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Sabin /forum/post/21784793


Like all the other reviews, I wanted to give my glowing review of my calibration by Doug Weil. (DroptheRemote @ AVS)

Thanks for your report. I've included a link to it in the flat panel (Post#2) lists at the top of this thread.
 
#691 ·
I'd like to give a big thumbs up to someone who is barely mentioned on the forums.


His name is Don Krasen, President of Krystal Clear Audio Video in Dallas, TX. Don spent two and a half hours explaining every step during the calibration of my Samsung PN59D7000, and providing me a few tips on how I can enhance my viewing experience with the equipment / lighting I have now, and advice on enhancing my experience in the future, should I wish to shell out a few bucks here and there.


This is my first pro calibration, and I am absolutely stunned by the results, and on top of that, you can just tell how passionate Don is about his work. He personally didn't need to come out today, but he decided to do the calibration himself because of how enthusiastic I sounded when I called to book the appointment.


Totally satisfied, and I'll definitely be calling Don when I need my displayed touched up.


Here's his link: http://www.kcaudio.com/



******UPDATE*****


Attached are the charts...due to a software glitch, both are titled "pre-calibration", but it's pretty obvious which chart is pre, and which chart is post calibration.

 

after.pdf 320.4931640625k . file

 

before.pdf 262.9404296875k . file
 

Attachments

#692 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTitleExaminer /forum/post/21934838


I'd like to give a big thumbs up to someone who is barely mentioned on the forums.

Thanks for posting your comments.


You can help other owners if you repost your comments in the owner's thread for your display. It will help me if you include your calibrators (Don Krasen) AVS user name if it's different than his real name.
 
#693 ·
I would like to give Chad a big thank you for the fantastic job he did calibrating my D8000. Chad was here Monday and spent a total of 5 hours working on it a long with doing something's that he did not have to do for me. He arrived on time, was prepared to start and was very professional. You can deffinently tell that he knows what he is doing.

I am a DIY calibrator with my own meter and CalMan software. So as you can imagine I asked a lot of questions. Never once did I get the feeling that he was getting irritated with me for what I am sure were a lot of stupid simple questions. He answered them and tried to make sure I understood. Also I never felt like he was in a rush to get done and leave. Again he did some extra things that he did not have to do.

At the end of the day, all I can say is wow. I have tried many, many times to calibrate this tv but never got the picture to look this good. So if your looking for a pro calibrator this is the guy you want.

Thanks again Chad.
 
#694 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM250 /forum/post/21978772


I would like to give Chad a big thank you for the fantastic job he did calibrating my D8000. Chad was here Monday and spent a total of 5 hours working on it a long with doing something's that he did not have to do for me. He arrived on time, was prepared to start and was very professional. You can deffinently tell that he knows what he is doing.

I am a DIY calibrator with my own meter and CalMan software. So as you can imagine I asked a lot of questions. Never once did I get the feeling that he was getting irritated with me for what I am sure were a lot of stupid simple questions. He answered them and tried to make sure I understood. Also I never felt like he was in a rush to get done and leave. Again he did some extra things that he did not have to do.

At the end of the day, all I can say is wow. I have tried many, many times to calibrate this tv but never got the picture to look this good. So if your looking for a pro calibrator this is the guy you want.

Thanks again Chad.

Thanks for your report. If you can repost your report in the owner's thread for your display that will make it available to owner's of your model display. If you don't, I'll repost it later.


EDIT (05/07/2012) I've reposted your comments in the owner's thread for your model display.
 
#698 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyknoxsvill  /t/712929/customer-reports-about-their-professional-calibrations/690#post_21990723


Does anyone have a recommendation for a pro calibratator in the Phoenix area?

You have one of the old guard greats in Phoenix. Michael Hamilton of The Real Picture.


mhamilton@therealpicture.tv
 
#699 ·
If anyone knows about calibration reports posted by owners that I've missed, please let me know where to find them. Otherwise I can only include the reports that I find in threads where I'm subscribed. All I need is the owner's comments about the results and the AVS user name of the professional calibrator.
 
#700 ·
I also want to say a big thank you to Chad Billheimer for calibrating my Samsung D7000 and also setting up my sound system and Harmony remote. Chad was everything and more that I had read on this forum about him. He arrived on time and worked till he had everything set up the way he wanted ( no short cuts) and made sure I was aware of everything he was doing and stayed till I understood how to run all the equipment with the new remote. I live in the middle of Kansas and he traveled a long ways to get here.
 
#702 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarias2311  /t/712929/customer-reports-about-their-professional-calibrations/700_50#post_22167145


Does anyone know of a good calibrator in the Northern VA area?
Check the link in my signature at the bottom of my post. You can also PM turbe. He may be able to suggest someone. I would check D-NIce and UMR to see if they do tours to your area.
Quote:
Also, anyone have any reviews on Best Buy calibrators? Currently have one set up for Aug 4th for my VT50 but just by reading the forums I have read that its a mix bag..
I've never been able to collect BB reviews because they are all anonymous. In general, I would say that the ones I have read here at AVS are negative, but I have read a couple that were good.


Personally I would rather go with someone with a track record. My impression is that adding free calibrations to close a deal on a new TV is the main reason that BB offers calibrations.
 
#703 ·
just had my lg 60pv450 calibrated by doug weil/lion av & he did a great job. very informative & went through all the steps & explained in great detail what he was doing & why. highly recommend doug & his skills & calibration in general; definitely worth it. the pq on my lg was great before, now it's stupendous. had no idea my gray scale was so out of balance & that actually affects color balance. just watched the 1st episode of lost, blacks are stupendous now & green/blue pops! thx doug!!!
 
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