Panasonic XR55 7.1 Digital Receiver

Landroval · 08-03-05, 09:11 AM

How would you owners describe the soundquality difference between dual-amp and normal modes? Is there any? Difference only with high volume levels?

Andrzej · 08-03-05, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landroval

How would you owners describe the soundquality difference between dual-amp and normal modes? Is there any? Difference only with high volume levels?

Definitely there is a difference. In the bi-amp mode the sound is cleaner, smoother and better defined. Particularly highs and mids. I can hear the difference at all (usable) volume levels. Your milage may vary depending on the quality of your speakers, interconnects, sources etc.

Bikedorian · 08-03-05, 10:02 AM

My 55 arrived yesterday. I'm just getting a chance to do some listening and have a few preliminary comments. The remote is indeed poorly laid out. The sound is more "clinical" than the Kenwood 6060 that it is replacing. I never thought of the Kenwood as being "warm" but that may be the case. From all that I've read on this forum I expected the Panny to be this way so I'm not considering this a plus or minus at this point. I'll use the Panasonic through Labor Day and then put the Kenwood back for a reappraisal. I have use of both receivers so I'm not concerned with a return policy. I only use the receiver for audio so I won't be able to answer any questions about the video portion of the receiver. One thing for sure. For the price, this unit is amazing.

David

VicAjax · 08-03-05, 10:12 AM

Bikedorian, what speakers are you using?

55belair · 08-03-05, 10:39 AM

I just ran arcoss this receiver on Amazon. I pretty much had my receiver choices narrowed down to either the Yamaha HTR 5890 or the HK 635, until I ran across the XR55. I know that it does not have all the bells and whistles of the Yamaha or the HK, but for the price who cares! My speakers are (5) 8ohm Phase Technology Teatro 6.5's and a Sunfire True Subwoofer. My theater room is 24'x14' My main question regarding this receiver is would it be enough power for my application?

Bikedorian · 08-03-05, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VicAjax

Bikedorian, what speakers are you using?

Ascend 340's accross the front, Altec Lansing 75's are surrounds and a CSW CC Plus as a rear surround. The sub is a Dayton 10" with a BFD.

David

Bikedorian · 08-03-05, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 55belair

I just ran arcoss this receiver on Amazon. I pretty much had my receiver choices narrowed down to either the Yamaha HTR 5890 or the HK 635, until I ran across the XR55. I know that it does not have all the bells and whistles of the Yamaha or the HK, but for the price who cares! My speakers are (5) 8ohm Phase Technology Teatro 6.5's and a Sunfire True Subwoofer. My theater room is 24'x14' My main question regarding this receiver is would it be enough power for my application?

My listening position is only eight feet from the speakers so your application would require more juice from the amp but I'd be surprised if this unit couldn't handle it. I'm running at 85db at the LP and I'm not even close to using all it's got. Every application is different but that's my experience.

David

dynamowhum · 08-03-05, 11:53 AM

Remember guys some have reported these digital amps needing 40 hours of play time to break them in. I wouldn't judge the sound quality until some time after that. Cheers.

jaseman · 08-03-05, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynamowhum

Remember guys some have reported these digital amps needing 40 hours of play time to break them in. I wouldn't judge the sound quality until some time after that. Cheers.

Break in time?

Why would a receiver need break in time?
Well, I have experienced where software/computers seem to run differently over time...I suppose you could call it "break-in-time."
Maybe that's the digital world??????

Landroval · 08-03-05, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrzej

Definitely there is a difference. In the bi-amp mode the sound is cleaner, smoother and better defined. Particularly highs and mids. I can hear the difference at all (usable) volume levels. Your milage may vary depending on the quality of your speakers, interconnects, sources etc.

Thanks, but are you talking about bi-amp or dual-amp? Dual-amp should be 'single-wire', but two amps somehow 'bridged' to one output for more power? Am I right?

Bikedorian · 08-03-05, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaseman

Break in time?

Why would a receiver need break in time?
Maybe that's the digital world??????

It's a carryover from the analog world. If there is an extended period needed for "break-in," it's quantifiable. Absent verifiable data, what's breaking in is the question. Is it the user of the equipment? The equipment can be tested. The user cannot. Take your choice.

David

Steve Kahn · 08-03-05, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrzej

Why is up-conversion so important? It doesn't make a crappy signal look better. And all decent sources of video have at least component out. Is it only a matter of having a single cable going out?

I just realized I misread the earlier description of these receivers' switching capabilities. I read it as "you need to run a separate cable out for each cable in" - ie absolutely no switching, which is brain-dead, and apparently, incorrect. It appears that both receivers (55 & 70) do at least component video switching - quite useful since the 55 has 3 component inputs. I assume it also does composite & s-video switching. So at least some of my initial concern about this goes away (my receiver is about 10' from my TV, if I need to buy three 10' component cables I would be spending almost as much on cables as on the receiver)... LOL

Steve

Landroval · 08-03-05, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kahn

I just realized I misread the earlier description of these receivers' switching capabilities. I read it as "you need to run a separate cable out for each cable in"

You need a separate cable out for each type of cable in. Actually I think every receiver does composite -> svideo transcoding, so you'll need one svideo cable out and one component cable out (for XR70 also HDMI if you'll use it). If the receiver would transcode svideo to component, you would need only the component cable out.

Andrzej · 08-03-05, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landroval

Thanks, but are you talking about bi-amp or dual-amp? Dual-amp should be 'single-wire', but two amps somehow 'bridged' to one output for more power? Am I right?

I am talking about bi-amping bi-wired speakers. So, 4 wires go to 4 binding posts on each speaker.

VicAjax · 08-03-05, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrzej

I am talking about bi-amping bi-wired speakers. So, 4 wires go to 4 binding posts on each speaker.

so can you hear any difference in dual amp mode vs. normal mode?

Landroval · 08-03-05, 03:02 PM

Ok, thx. What about dual-amp? comments? feelings?

Andrzej · 08-03-05, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VicAjax

so can you hear any difference in dual amp mode vs. normal mode?

What do you mean? I just said that.

Landroval · 08-03-05, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrzej

What do you mean? I just said that.

No, no. Dual-amp != Bi-amp. The XR55 has separate dual- and bi-amp features. Bi-amp is normal bi-amping while dual-amp is bridging two amps for a single-wire speaker.

Andrzej · 08-03-05, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landroval

No, no. Dual-amp != Bi-amp. The XR55 has separate dual- and bi-amp features. Bi-amp is normal bi-amping while dual-amp is bridging two amps for a single-wire speaker.

Ok. You're right about those features of XR55. I don't do dual-amping. My room is mid-size and mono-amping provides more than enough of db. I do "normal" be-amping.

SoftwireEngineer · 08-03-05, 03:52 PM

Folks, this thread has so many posts. It is almost like a fan club for the Panasonic. Based on posts here I am beginning to suspect that the XR55 is an improvement over the XR50 in terms of handling various speakers with widely changing impedences. For eg. the XR50 was not able to handle the Ascend speakers. Now it seems people are using it satisfactorliy. I have a XR50, and I think, I might 'upgrade' to the 55.
So some tips for people new to the Panasonics -

1. Whether you think break-in is a real phenomenon or not, please, let the receiver work hard for a week or two, and then get back to critical listening.

2. Make sure the receiver is on a vibration free shelf. There are some cork/rubber bases sold on audiogon for $10. Try something like that.

3. The quality of sound is directly proportional to the quality of digital input. Make sure your CD/DVD player is also on a vibration free shelf and use a good digital cable.

4. Power conditioners also influence the sound a bit. Now I have mine connected to a balanced power conditioner. The noise floor has dropped so much, I can hear the deep soundstage/ ambience of the recording venue.

Enjoy the best amplifier deal I have known of ..

azryan · 08-03-05, 05:19 PM

Don’t forget to get a good set of audiophile approved voodoo beads to lay them horizontally across the top of the rec. Do NOT lay them front to back or you’ll totally ruin the sound!!

You should also arrange a small pile of chicken bones (do not clean them) in the semi circle in front of the face of the rec if you can. You might have to build a special shelf attachment to do this but it’s worth it.

Then pop in your Major League DVD (I assume everyone owns a copy) and chant several of the lines that big witch doctor dude said.

EXCEPT do NOT chant "F U Jobu!" as this will curse the Tex. In. Equibit chips in the rec and possibly damage the tuner as well. This is NOT fixable so be glad I warned you!

Andrzej · 08-03-05, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azryan

Don’t forget to get a good set of audiophile approved voodoo beads to lay them horizontally across the top of the rec. Do NOT lay them front to back or you’ll totally ruin the sound!!

You should also arrange a small pile of chicken bones (do not clean them) in the semi circle in front of the face of the rec if you can. You might have to build a special shelf attachment to do this but it’s worth it.

Then pop in your Major League DVD (I assume everyone owns a copy) and chant several of the lines that big witch doctor dude said.

EXCEPT do NOT chant "F U Jobu!" as this will curse the Tex. In. Equibit chips in the rec and possibly damage the tuner as well. This is NOT fixable so be glad I warned you!

Are you saying that your boombox doesn't sound better with all the above?

azryan · 08-03-05, 06:49 PM

Dude, there was zero point in you reposting my entire post just above yours. Yeesh.

And your one line reply doesn't even make any sense.

T. Perinne · 08-03-05, 08:52 PM

I've had the XR55 over a week. I'm running an HSU VTF3 MK2 and the HSU Ventriloquist VT12 system as well. I'm delighted with the sound. I'm comparing to an HK 635 in the same system - I returned the HK in definite favor of the Panny. Cables are RAM optical from a Dish 942 and Blue Jeans digi coax from the Universal player. The Panny just plain sings... for less than $250 I can't imagine being any happier with another receiver. BTW, I'm posting this BEFORE reading the multiple pages of posts in this thread, hopefully my observations are in line - I'm going to read up now.

LOL... its got to be vodoo right? "I'm pissed now, Joboo. Look, I go to you. I stick up for you. You no help me now, I say, fu** you, Joboo. I do it myself."

DigitalHT · 08-03-05, 08:57 PM

Can anyone confirm if the XR55 remote works on other XR models (e.g. XR45).

Also, is it better to use the XR55 bi-wire (using B speakers) mode or use my existing XR45 with the XR55 for bi-amping? Using the XR45 and the XR55 for bi-amping means that I can have bi-amped fronts and surrounds for multichannel listening. Otherwise I am restricted to bi-wired fronts for 2ch listening only, as the XR55 bi-wire mode would only allow this. Would there be a delay or phase shift if I use different amps to drive the HF and LF ?

The reason I'm asking all these questions is because I'm considering getting the XR55 for its 7.1 capabilities when it is released here in Australia, but at the same time I hope I can still use my XR45 for improving the SQ.

JnC · 08-03-05, 10:34 PM

This doesn't quite answer your question but when I bought the XR70, it was so new that it wasn't listed as a choice for my Harmony remote at the time. So I configured it as a "XR50" and was able to control everything with the exception of the 70's specific features. So I would tend to think that the remote should be able to work across the 55/45 platforms as well.

DigitalHT · 08-03-05, 10:41 PM

Thanks JnC, hope that is the case. I just want to use one remote to control the main features such as volume, when I link the XR45 and XR55 via optical to bi-amp.

Dickster · 08-04-05, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landroval

How would you owners describe the soundquality difference between dual-amp and normal modes? Is there any? Difference only with high volume levels?

There's no real good way to make a comparision. The dual-amp setting automatically engages when playing a 2 channel source. The only way to turn it off is to use a multichannel decoding like DD, DTS, PLII, Neo6 or a DSP mode.

Landroval · 08-04-05, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dickster

There's no real good way to make a comparision. The dual-amp setting automatically engages when playing a 2 channel source. The only way to turn it off is to use a multichannel decoding like DD, DTS, PLII, Neo6 or a DSP mode.

Ok, I didn't know that. I bet someone did compare XR45/50/55 with 2 channel so maybe I just need to read the whole thread again from the beginning.

mcamden · 08-04-05, 02:37 PM

Thanks to everyone for the great info on the XR55; this is a fantastic thread. I've been quietly following Panasonic digital receivers for a couple of years and finally decided to buy the XR55; I placed my order today from Amazon, so I'm looking forward to trying this out. I will be replacing a Yamaha HTR-5550 that has served me well for the past 18 months. The small size and three component inputs for component switching were the big factors for me (once I read all of the positive comments on audio quality). I will be pairing the new receiver with my trusty Fluance speakers (great speakers for the price).

If anyone here knows someone in the market for a great second receiver, my Yamaha will be available as soon as the new Panny arrives.

08-03-05, 09:11 AM	#391 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
Landroval Advanced Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 624	How would you owners describe the soundquality difference between dual-amp and normal modes? Is there any? Difference only with high volume levels?

08-03-05, 10:12 AM	#394 \| Link
VicAjax male supermödel Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: ñ¥ç Posts: 542	Bikedorian, what speakers are you using? __________________ music is the best.

08-03-05, 11:53 AM	#398 \| Link
dynamowhum Thread killer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Lake Charles, Louisana Posts: 523	Remember guys some have reported these digital amps needing 40 hours of play time to break them in. I wouldn't judge the sound quality until some time after that. Cheers. __________________ The only difference between outlaws and inlaws is one of them is wanted.

08-03-05, 03:52 PM	#410 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
SoftwireEngineer Software As The Wire Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 575	Folks, this thread has so many posts. It is almost like a fan club for the Panasonic. Based on posts here I am beginning to suspect that the XR55 is an improvement over the XR50 in terms of handling various speakers with widely changing impedences. For eg. the XR50 was not able to handle the Ascend speakers. Now it seems people are using it satisfactorliy. I have a XR50, and I think, I might 'upgrade' to the 55. So some tips for people new to the Panasonics - 1. Whether you think break-in is a real phenomenon or not, please, let the receiver work hard for a week or two, and then get back to critical listening. 2. Make sure the receiver is on a vibration free shelf. There are some cork/rubber bases sold on audiogon for $10. Try something like that. 3. The quality of sound is directly proportional to the quality of digital input. Make sure your CD/DVD player is also on a vibration free shelf and use a good digital cable. 4. Power conditioners also influence the sound a bit. Now I have mine connected to a balanced power conditioner. The noise floor has dropped so much, I can hear the deep soundstage/ ambience of the recording venue. Enjoy the best amplifier deal I have known of ..

08-03-05, 08:52 PM	#414 \| Link
T. Perinne Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 135	I've had the XR55 over a week. I'm running an HSU VTF3 MK2 and the HSU Ventriloquist VT12 system as well. I'm delighted with the sound. I'm comparing to an HK 635 in the same system - I returned the HK in definite favor of the Panny. Cables are RAM optical from a Dish 942 and Blue Jeans digi coax from the Universal player. The Panny just plain sings... for less than $250 I can't imagine being any happier with another receiver. BTW, I'm posting this BEFORE reading the multiple pages of posts in this thread, hopefully my observations are in line - I'm going to read up now. LOL... its got to be vodoo right? "I'm pissed now, Joboo. Look, I go to you. I stick up for you. You no help me now, I say, fu** you, Joboo. I do it myself." __________________ T. Perinne

08-03-05, 10:02 AM	#393 \| Link
Bikedorian Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 604	My 55 arrived yesterday. I'm just getting a chance to do some listening and have a few preliminary comments. The remote is indeed poorly laid out. The sound is more "clinical" than the Kenwood 6060 that it is replacing. I never thought of the Kenwood as being "warm" but that may be the case. From all that I've read on this forum I expected the Panny to be this way so I'm not considering this a plus or minus at this point. I'll use the Panasonic through Labor Day and then put the Kenwood back for a reappraisal. I have use of both receivers so I'm not concerned with a return policy. I only use the receiver for audio so I won't be able to answer any questions about the video portion of the receiver. One thing for sure. For the price, this unit is amazing. David

08-03-05, 10:39 AM	#395 \| Link
55belair Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 23	I just ran arcoss this receiver on Amazon. I pretty much had my receiver choices narrowed down to either the Yamaha HTR 5890 or the HK 635, until I ran across the XR55. I know that it does not have all the bells and whistles of the Yamaha or the HK, but for the price who cares! My speakers are (5) 8ohm Phase Technology Teatro 6.5's and a Sunfire True Subwoofer. My theater room is 24'x14' My main question regarding this receiver is would it be enough power for my application?

08-03-05, 03:02 PM	#406 \| Link
Landroval Advanced Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 624	Ok, thx. What about dual-amp? comments? feelings?

08-03-05, 05:19 PM	#411 \| Link
azryan Advanced Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Az Posts: 570	Don’t forget to get a good set of audiophile approved voodoo beads to lay them horizontally across the top of the rec. Do NOT lay them front to back or you’ll totally ruin the sound!! You should also arrange a small pile of chicken bones (do not clean them) in the semi circle in front of the face of the rec if you can. You might have to build a special shelf attachment to do this but it’s worth it. Then pop in your Major League DVD (I assume everyone owns a copy) and chant several of the lines that big witch doctor dude said. EXCEPT do NOT chant "F U Jobu!" as this will curse the Tex. In. Equibit chips in the rec and possibly damage the tuner as well. This is NOT fixable so be glad I warned you!

08-03-05, 06:49 PM	#413 \| Link
azryan Advanced Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Az Posts: 570	Dude, there was zero point in you reposting my entire post just above yours. Yeesh. And your one line reply doesn't even make any sense.

08-03-05, 08:57 PM	#415 \| Link
DigitalHT Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 163	Can anyone confirm if the XR55 remote works on other XR models (e.g. XR45). Also, is it better to use the XR55 bi-wire (using B speakers) mode or use my existing XR45 with the XR55 for bi-amping? Using the XR45 and the XR55 for bi-amping means that I can have bi-amped fronts and surrounds for multichannel listening. Otherwise I am restricted to bi-wired fronts for 2ch listening only, as the XR55 bi-wire mode would only allow this. Would there be a delay or phase shift if I use different amps to drive the HF and LF ? The reason I'm asking all these questions is because I'm considering getting the XR55 for its 7.1 capabilities when it is released here in Australia, but at the same time I hope I can still use my XR45 for improving the SQ. Last edited by DigitalHT; 08-03-05 at 11:04 PM..

08-03-05, 10:34 PM	#416 \| Link
JnC Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Charlotte Posts: 342	This doesn't quite answer your question but when I bought the XR70, it was so new that it wasn't listed as a choice for my Harmony remote at the time. So I configured it as a "XR50" and was able to control everything with the exception of the 70's specific features. So I would tend to think that the remote should be able to work across the 55/45 platforms as well.

08-03-05, 10:41 PM	#417 \| Link
DigitalHT Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 163	Thanks JnC, hope that is the case. I just want to use one remote to control the main features such as volume, when I link the XR45 and XR55 via optical to bi-amp.

08-04-05, 02:37 PM	#420 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
mcamden Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wheeling, WV Posts: 114	Thanks to everyone for the great info on the XR55; this is a fantastic thread. I've been quietly following Panasonic digital receivers for a couple of years and finally decided to buy the XR55; I placed my order today from Amazon, so I'm looking forward to trying this out. I will be replacing a Yamaha HTR-5550 that has served me well for the past 18 months. The small size and three component inputs for component switching were the big factors for me (once I read all of the positive comments on audio quality). I will be pairing the new receiver with my trusty Fluance speakers (great speakers for the price). If anyone here knows someone in the market for a great second receiver, my Yamaha will be available as soon as the new Panny arrives.