Raleigh, NC - HDTV

[HDTV-NUT]

Originally Posted by posg

most people that work in an industry are not "enthusiasts" and will only learm what they need to know.

truer words have never been spoken.

also keep in mind that the people answering the phones are pretty much at the bottom of the food chain. they make nothing in terms of money and this is just a job to pay there rent type of deal. most of them couldnt tell you the difference between component and composite cables.. im sure if we could get ahold of a technical engineer for Time Warner, they would know alot more.

[thamlet]

Originally Posted by KLebda

Thanks! That did the trick. We had needed to reboot (a time or two) right after the upgrade, but no telling what the aspect ratio was set to at the time.

And v/v passthru - that setting may be gone, but now you can select multiple output resolutions so that's good too.

Happy camper again.

Yes, that is the new area of the menu that does not work on my box. No matter what output resolution or combination of resolutions I select, when I try to "accept" them, it just defaults back to 1080i. I fear that TWC may have disabled all outputs over the DVI except 1080i. Are you using the DVI out from the Pace, and have you successfully selected multiple output resolutions?

I will try rebooting once more and also try component out as posg suggested to see if this is the case.

Thanks for all of the help guys.

[KLebda]

Originally Posted by thamlet

Yes, that is the new area of the menu that does not work on my box. No matter what output resolution or combination of resolutions I select, when I try to "accept" them, it just defaults back to 1080i. I fear that TWC may have disabled all outputs over the DVI except 1080i. Are you using the DVI out from the Pace, and have you successfully selected multiple output resolutions?

I will try rebooting once more and also try component out as posg suggested to see if this is the case.

Thanks for all of the help guys.

ahh - yes, I spoke too soon on that. Seems the only thing still set is 1080i. I'm using DVI out also.

[thamlet]

Originally Posted by posg

As far as help goes, you just have to swallow the bitter pill that most people that work in an industry are not "enthusiasts" and will only learn what they need to know.

You are right. It really does not make sense to train poeple to serve such a small segment when they have millions of customers that woudln't know the difference between HD and VD.

[Zilla]

Per this input...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post6836228

Is it my understanding then that if I buy a QAM-capable tuner (MDP-130) for my HTPC that I'll get these channels, or at least the ones available in Cary?

[malleusx]

So last week Disc HD moved from 84.2 to 110.4 on my tuner. Everything else was the same. Now I have lost TNT and Disc again. So i know there has been some speculation that TWC has been trying to cut these off for people without the digipc 1000 service level, which I dont have.

Does anyone know for sure that they have not just been moved again like DiscHD was moved for me last week? Anyone done a search for them at all?

If so let us know!

[Erik Garci]

Originally Posted by malleusx

Does anyone know for sure that they have not just been moved again like DiscHD was moved for me last week?

I'm sure they have not been moved. They are just no longer "clear to air".

[Oldemanphil]

Is anyone else having lip sync problems with NBC's evening HD programs through TWC 's cable QAM broadcast?

The other networks seem to be ok.

[mikecon54]

I saw lip sync problems watching Law & Order SVU this week, but not on other shows.

More often, I've seen digital artifacting and facial ghosting with NCN-HD. I've seen none of these issues on any other channel (using an 8300HD to feed a 42" plasma) The facial ghosting in particular is annoying. I've seen it on all of the L&O shows and on the West Wing.

Just for comparison I watched some L&O reruns on TNT and L&O SVU on UniversalHD, and did not see the same problems on either of those channels, so I believe it to be an NCN-HD only problem.

Has anyone else been seeing these types of problems on NCN?

[Daryl L]

Originally Posted by Zilla

Per this input...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post6836228

Is it my understanding then that if I buy a QAM-capable tuner (MDP-130) for my HTPC that I'll get these channels, or at least the ones available in Cary?

That is correct except no more DiscHD or TNTHD.

[Daryl L]

Originally Posted by malleusx

So last week Disc HD moved from 84.2 to 110.4 on my tuner. Everything else was the same. Now I have lost TNT and Disc again. So i know there has been some speculation that TWC has been trying to cut these off for people without the digipc 1000 service level, which I dont have.

Does anyone know for sure that they have not just been moved again like DiscHD was moved for me last week? Anyone done a search for them at all?

If so let us know!

I have the equivilant of the DIGIPiC 4000 package (had all this way before they named them DIGIPiC) plus the HD Suite and as of this week I'm not getting DiscHD or TNTHD anymore with my QAM tuner.

DiscHD or TNTHD is still there on the same QAM allocation, they're just not set to Clear to Air anymore.

[drewwho]

Originally Posted by Oldemanphil

Is anyone else having lip sync problems with NBC's evening HD programs through TWC 's cable QAM broadcast?

Yes. L&O Weds evening, and the Earl from 8:30 on Thurs both had lip sync problems. I haven't watched anything else yet from NBC this week.

Drew

[pepar]

Originally Posted by drewwho

Yes. L&O Weds evening, and the Earl from 8:30 on Thurs both had lip sync problems. I haven't watched anything else yet from NBC this week.

Drew

Not in Raleigh or on TWC, but I watched a bit of EarlHD and noticed no sync issues.

[drewwho]

Originally Posted by pepar

Not in Raleigh or on TWC, but I watched a bit of EarlHD and noticed no sync issues.

Yeah, I don't think its a TWC thing. The L&O I noticed the lip sync problem in was recorded OTA.

Drew

[malleusx]

Originally Posted by Daryl L

I have the equivilant of the DIGIPiC 4000 package (had all this way before they named them DIGIPiC) plus the HD Suite and as of this week I'm not getting DiscHD or TNTHD anymore with my QAM tuner.

DiscHD or TNTHD is still there on the same QAM allocation, they're just not set to Clear to Air anymore.

So is anyone getting those channels now because according to TWC you are supposed to with at least the DigiPC 1000 level of service. Or are you saying that you dont get them on the QAM but can get them with a cable card or box now?

[IamtheWolf]

Originally Posted by Oldemanphil

Is anyone else having lip sync problems with NBC's evening HD programs through TWC 's cable QAM broadcast?

The other networks seem to be ok.

I did during a "clip" shown in the local evening news (channel surfing) on Friday 3/31. I thought it was the clip, as the broadcast seemed ok, but I surfed away soon after.

[kd4pbs]

Originally Posted by posg

Forgive me, I am not a broadcast engineer. But I do know there's a couple of ways to accomplish noise reduction in a video chain, the first being simple real time filtering of the high frequency response which simply softens the image.

Well, there ya go...
A guy comes on here and tries to answer some questions, and suddenly people start assuming things that are not even close to reality.

Sorry, posg, but we don't do any optimizations or changes other than re-encoding the stream for broadcast. Some of the lower quality encoders may provide a "do it all in one box" solution, but not ours. Our encoders are not capable of signal changes by themselves. This is being handled by a separate device which is totally switched out of the signal chain when we are passing through the HD material. Perhaps in your other markets to which you refer they were actually "enhancing" (distorting) the signal from WB, and when you see the real deal on WLFL-DT you assume that we are putting the "vaseline smear filter" on it somehow? I know I sure can't see any difference between, say WLFL-DT and the other HD broadcasters in this area. If there were any "crushed blacks" I sure don't have any way to compensate for this, since there is no signal processing that I can perform from the network.

In fact, there are signal processing tricks I can do, but only on the upconversion signal when we upconvert from SD. The only thing that (as of right now) is being done here though is the sidebars. I have all of the noise reduction effectively turned off, since there is already an extremely clean feed being sent to the upconversion components. All the "detail" (edge) enhancement is turned off to, as this simply adds more distortion and creates a false sense of added resolution to the signal. The way I see it, if the viewer wants to distort the signal, they certainly have enough circuitry in thier HDTVs to do so, but since I run my Mits RPTV at home without all this junk turned on, I certainly don't want to see it added by the broadcaster.

Originally Posted by posg

But thanks for your response. Guessing from your screen name, you just do contract work for the station. Anybody who follows this string knows my feelings towards Sinclair, so I'll shut up.

You guess wrong again as well; I'm not a contract engineer. KD4PBS is an amateur radio callsign. I'm a full-time employee, and have been for over 10 years. I worked my way up from evening/news tech to Chief Engineer in the process. Whatever poltical agenda you may assume I have because of my affiliation would also be incorrect; Sinclair Broadcast Group compensates me fairly for the hard work and dedication I have for my job, and I have nothing but respect and gratitude for them allowing me to work someplace pleasant and keep my family fed and housed. If you really want to be an expert at what SBG is all about, why not come to work for us and find out first hand instead of listening to what some disgruntled ex employee might have to say?

Don't believe everything you may hear or read on the internet about SBG.

[kd4pbs]

Originally Posted by posg

Actually, the towers are right next to each other. Tropo was better this morning than it has been lately. Should continue to improve as the daytime temperatures get warmer.

posg, do you live for dispensing false information on the internet? WLFL-DT and WRDC-DT are on the exact same tower as WNCN-TV, WNCN-DT, WRAL-DT, and WRAZ-DT. In fact, we're all at the same height, give or take the height of the actual antenna, on top of the tower thanks to the candelabra design that Capitol Broadcasting Company (WRAL/WRAZ) incorporated into this tower.
WRDC-DT's antenna is supporting WLFL-DT's antenna. It is mounted on one "arbor" that is at the top of the tower, 120 degrees displaced from WNCN-TV and WNCN-DT's antennas (I'm not sure which one is supporting which, I'd guess the DT antenna is on top of the TV antenna), and 120 degrees displaced the other way from WRAL-DT and WRAZ-DT's antennas.

[posg]

Originally Posted by kd4pbs

posg, do you live for dispensing false information on the internet? WLFL-DT and WRDC-DT are on the exact same tower as WNCN-TV, WNCN-DT, WRAL-DT, and WRAZ-DT. In fact, we're all at the same height, give or take the height of the actual antenna, on top of the tower thanks to the candelabra design that Capitol Broadcasting Company (WRAL/WRAZ) incorporated into this tower.
WRDC-DT's antenna is supporting WLFL-DT's antenna. It is mounted on one "arbor" that is at the top of the tower, 120 degrees displaced from WNCN-TV and WNCN-DT's antennas (I'm not sure which one is supporting which, I'd guess the DT antenna is on top of the TV antenna), and 120 degrees displaced the other way from WRAL-DT and WRAZ-DT's antennas.

The information I dispensed was based on entering transmitter coordinates from the FCC database into Google Earth. If I am wrong, the FCC database is wrong, because it distinctly shows WRDC/WLFL on "the other" tower.

Regardless, please accept my personal apologies for any negative comments. They are directed at Sinclair, not at you personally.

[Daryl L]

kd4pbs,

Again, thx for the info. Unless HDNet/HDNetMovies, InHD/InHD2, ESPNHD, HBOHD, TNTHD, SHOHD & UniversalHD that I get along with the other Raleigh, Florence and Wilmington stations I get are passed to us @ 18Mbps or more and with no artifical enhancement (which I doubt) I really don't recall reading of any other HD feed offered at 18Mbps. Maybe that 18Mbps and no enhancement is what makes WLFL-HD look different and nobody is use to seeing HD like that.

What the heck, show us how HD can look like diamonds, feed us the whole 20Mpbs. j/k.

Although I was viewing through a 32" calibrated analog back around 1996/7 when I first saw an HDTV being feed an HD signal on the Cnet show it looked to have a glossy look to it (something I've not seen yet after owning an HD display for over 5 years, even ISF'd). I've yet to get WLFL's primetime HD feed but hope to one evening.

Just don't leave this forum please. We need all the input all broadcast engineers can provide.

[Daryl L]

Originally Posted by malleusx

So is anyone getting those channels now because according to TWC you are supposed to with at least the DigiPC 1000 level of service. Or are you saying that you dont get them on the QAM but can get them with a cable card or box now?

I don't get them on my tv's built-in QAM tuner anymore (but I don't have a cable card installed). Probably with a cable card I would. And yes I get them on my TWC 8300HD DVR cable box.

[kd4pbs]

Originally Posted by posg

The information I dispensed was based on entering transmitter coordinates from the FCC database into Google Earth. If I am wrong, the FCC database is wrong, because it distinctly shows WRDC/WLFL on "the other" tower.

Regardless, please accept my personal apologies for any negative comments. They are directed at Sinclair, not at you personally.

No worries, man... I figured that much. I didn't take it as an offense at me, and I know that I'm not going to change any minds. I just wanted to make it clear that I don't have any problems working for SBG, and am actually quite proud of the high quality of new technology that SBG has invested. I cannot speak for other departments of the group, but I'm proud to work with such a fine group of engineers and techs that SBG provides. We may not be the ones that blaze the new trails all the time, but we definately ride those same trails in style.

[kd4pbs]

Originally Posted by Daryl L

kd4pbs,

Again, thx for the info. Unless HDNet/HDNetMovies, InHD/InHD2, ESPNHD, HBOHD, TNTHD, SHOHD & UniversalHD that I get along with the other Raleigh, Florence and Wilmington stations I get are passed to us @ 18Mbps or more and with no artifical enhancement (which I doubt) I really don't recall reading of any other HD feed offered at 18Mbps. Maybe that 18Mbps and no enhancement is what makes WLFL-HD look different and nobody is use to seeing HD like that.

What the heck, show us how HD can look like diamonds, feed us the whole 20Mpbs. j/k.

Although I was viewing through a 32" calibrated analog back around 1996/7 when I first saw an HDTV being feed an HD signal on the Cnet show it looked to have a glossy look to it (something I've not seen yet after owning an HD display for over 5 years, even ISF'd). I've yet to get WLFL's primetime HD feed but hope to one evening.

Just don't leave this forum please. We need all the input all broadcast engineers can provide.

20Mbps? Try 19.392658Mbps. Hehe... sorry, egg-headed engineer absoluteism there
Don't worry, I have been a member here for some time, will continue to be, and will offer all the input I can.

[Oldemanphil]

I don't get them on my tv's built-in QAM tuner anymore (but I don't have a cable card installed). Probably with a cable card I would. And yes I get them on my TWC 8300HD DVR cable box.

Ditto for me, I still get them on my 2 TWC STBs, but no longer on QAM. sigh

[posg]

Originally Posted by kd4pbs

No worries, man... I figured that much. I didn't take it as an offense at me, and I know that I'm not going to change any minds. I just wanted to make it clear that I don't have any problems working for SBG, and am actually quite proud of the high quality of new technology that SBG has invested. I cannot speak for other departments of the group, but I'm proud to work with such a fine group of engineers and techs that SBG provides. We may not be the ones that blaze the new trails all the time, but we definately ride those same trails in style.

Don't forget to check out the Zoom on the SD content.

So what's up with CW? Seems like most of the "stars have aligned" for CW (and FOX Jr.) in the top 50+ markets, with the exception of the markets where the only remaining likely CW candidate is a Sinclair outlet. I understand CW is seeking "reverse compensation". That would seem to go against the Sinclair grain.

We all hope Sinclair comes "out of the closet" and becomes a little cable friendlier. You know and I know that even with the advent of ATSC capable TVs, most viewers won't bother with off-air channels, especially for those channels not affiliated with the Big 4.

[Robbie]

Anyone else haveing problems with HD onTime Warner Cable?

I am unable to correctly set the screen aspect ratio since the firmware update to my Pace Digital High Definition cable box this week.

The analog channels can not be set in a mode to fill the screen without major distortin and missing regions of the picture. In letter box mode there are light grey sidebars surrounding the picture.

None of the modes allow correct and complete visibility of the picture on both my Sony XBR 4:3 high definition television and digital recorder.

My digital cable service is essentially unusable since the update. To release an update this defective is unimaginable.

[kd4pbs]

Originally Posted by posg

Don't forget to check out the Zoom on the SD content.

So what's up with CW? Seems like most of the "stars have aligned" for CW (and FOX Jr.) in the top 50+ markets, with the exception of the markets where the only remaining likely CW candidate is a Sinclair outlet. I understand CW is seeking "reverse compensation". That would seem to go against the Sinclair grain.

We all hope Sinclair comes "out of the closet" and becomes a little cable friendlier. You know and I know that even with the advent of ATSC capable TVs, most viewers won't bother with off-air channels, especially for those channels not affiliated with the Big 4.

Not in my realm of responsibility on that one. I'm sure that the people that need to will get it all worked out in the end. It should be interesting to see how it all pans out. I just hope they change "CW" to some other acronym. Being a ham radio operator, CW to me means "continuous wave", or the slang term for transmission of a signal using morse code... Then being a redneck it also means "Country & Western", as in the two types of music in the world.
Just remember, the other side of the coin is that Time Warner is not Sinclair friendly. From what I hear, in other markets Sinclair and the local cable companies have come to an agreement, and Sinclairs DT signal is on these cable companies lineup.
Do you think that xyz-HD would be carried on TWC Raleigh's lineup if Time Warner didn't pay xyz for the priviledge of carrying thier signal?

To tell you the truth, the four friends of mine that have HD capability have ditched getting the local HD channels from TWC and gone back to an OTA antenna to get the broadcast networks. They have told me that the signal quality is too iffy at best over TWC's system. I don't have TWC's cable service so I couldn't tell you my experience with them. So, from my point of view, OTA is the only way to get the locals. Guess what... it's also FREE!

[thess]

Not an HDTV issue, but I'm less than thrilled with TWC moving IFC out of my Digipic 1000 package and into a higher pricing tier. Grr. Evidently this occurred sometime in the last few days.

[cbordman]

Originally Posted by thess

Not an HDTV issue, but I'm less than thrilled with TWC moving IFC out of my Digipic 1000 package and into a higher pricing tier. Grr. Evidently this occurred sometime in the last few days.

Yes, on march 30th. They also moved the Game Show Network. I found no mention of this change on their website, but there was a mention about it in the News and Observer.

[IamtheWolf]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Anyone else haveing problems with HD onTime Warner Cable?

I am unable to correctly set the screen aspect ratio since the firmware update to my Pace Digital High Definition cable box this week.

The analog channels can not be set in a mode to fill the screen without major distortin and missing regions of the picture. In letter box mode there are light grey sidebars surrounding the picture.

None of the modes allow correct and complete visibility of the picture on both my Sony XBR 4:3 high definition television and digital recorder.

My digital cable service is essentially unusable since the update. To release an update this defective is unimaginable.

I set the STB for "TV" as 4:3 (Standard) with Picture as 16:9. This is counter intuitive since my Sony 55XS is 16:9. I then let the Sony take over, since it does a better job (IMO) of sizing to the screen than the STB (SA8300).

I don't like grey (or black) bars, so the Sony is set to Wide Zoom (my preference vs Full or Zoom). I prefer this to the STB Zoom or Stretch.

This got me back to where I was before the upgrade. Before changing the settings to the above, I had the same circumstance that you described.