The Official Sony 2006 KDS-(XX)A2000 [NO PRICE TALK] SXRD Owner's Thread

[UxiSXRD]

Originally Posted by toofargone

I dunno (don't think any of us really know), but the xbr1 has v2.0, which is being retired, presumably because of problems. In any event, this has been discussed TO DEATH. Read the thread.

I wouldn't go as far as saying 2.0 was identified specifically as having any issues. As far as V2.5, it's just another step in the chart. Old Man Tech doesn't stop moving, so it should be very interesting to see the XBR2 in action.

[pwiss]

Originally Posted by umr

I am very sensitive to rainbows. A proper calibration of the HLS will reduce the rainbow effect, but at the expense of light output. Doing this also reduces the rainbow phenomena dramatically, but not completely. All of these things are a set of tradeoffs. The A2000 may be the best for you. I tolerate the rainbows in exchange for low noise, excellent color performance and a better form factor.

umr

Thanks for your response. I think you don't do service menu tweak info anymore. But, I know us a2000 owners would feel alot better about our sets if you share that resolution improvement info just this one time.

[dallas27]

Was the reduced resolution still apparent with a 1080p feed? Did you have the ability to feed 1080p?

[umr]

Originally Posted by dallas27

Was the reduced resolution still apparent with a 1080p feed? Did you have the ability to feed 1080p?

I don't know because I did not look.

I have a Sencore VP403C it generates some 1080p resolutions, but they are not supported by all displays.

[jaxcarlson2]

Originally Posted by umr

IRE corresponds to signal level. In this case it is equal to percent. You are correct about wanting the triangles in the squares.

Thanks again, umr. Does the signal level correlate to strength of signal, or clearness? I'm just trying to resolve this to myself, but if the signal strength is < 20%, you basically have the garbage in/garbage out thought coming in to play. I realize you want all three lines to be dead on the 100% mark, and the XBR1 seems to be somewhat closer above 20% than the A2000 (with the exception of the 50% IRE area), but are the small differences that discernable to the regular joes like me? Maybe it's just the chart graduations going from 0-200 and they should go from 80-120 or 90-110 to magnify/stress the difference. Thanks again for being so helpful and sharing your thoughts/info on this set.

[scott1974]

man o man. Ive been monitoring this thread and the XBR1 thread for a year now.. just waiting for the A2000 to come out. 1080p input, no green blob, no speakers, 55", etc. was looking like the A2000 was the ticket. damn you UMR!!

but seriously, finally going to hit up the CCs in the area tonight and see if I can get a side by side between the XBR1 and A2000. It wouldnt kill me to grab a 50" XBR1 (damned speakers) maybe I can haggle.

[umr]

Originally Posted by scsiraid

Would it be possible for you to post the charts for your 6188?

Here are the results post calibration for my display. The grey scale tracking below 10 IRE cannot be seen numerically for any of these displays, but the quality does matter. DLP is generally superior to all others in this respect.

[jbug]

Originally Posted by pchung3009

I sometimes wish I never found this website. I keep second guessing myself.

I had my mind set up purchasing the 05' XBR1, but after reading all the threads about that set, I changed opinions and decided to go for the A2000. Was pretty happy about that decision since all the initial thoughts, comments, and reviews were positive; until about page 53 when UMR posted a reply and Mr. Foo said something about a red haze.

I myself purchased the 55 A2000 for what I thought was a good deal. Why? Like most people who purchased, they saw the display and enjoyed the PQ, ability for 1080p input, and didn't have the "dumbo ears." Oh yeah...also the great price. I am not a "pro" in the HDTV arena (this is my first purchase), but my eyes told me that this set is great for that price.

When I first went out on a mission to buy my first HDTV, I thought Plasma all the way and had $8K to budget (originally budgeted $4k, but won $5k in a poker tourney). After 4 months of research and going into every local consumer electronic store within a 50 mile radius of Chicago, I realized that in "my" opinion, the XBR1 had the best picture of all the displays that I saw (Pan PX60U, Pioneer Pro 1130HD, Samsung HLS6188W, Mits WD62927 were the other sets that I was considering). What I liked about the SXRD, was the non-cartoony and eye-straining brightness of the Plasmas. Also, once again "my" opinion, much less noise and better contrast, sharpness, and black levels of the other DLP's. I went with the A2000 because of the horror stories of the Green Blob and I liked the look of the A2000 better than the XBR. Since in my own eyes, the pictures were quite the same, I went with the A2000 and saved some money$$$.

I respect all of the A/V philes in this forum and their contributions helped me make my decision. But to be honest with you, UMR and all the other REALLY technical people see things that I will NEVER be able to see or notice. After reading that last few pages of the threads, I started to feel some regret purchasing the A2000, but I remembered what I saw in the store compared to other sets. The fact is, no display will be perfect to people like UMR's eyes since they are always trying to find the Utopian picture and constantly trying to uncover the different faults. Not a bad thing, but it is their job and I appreciate the information and their professional opinions. BUT, once again I go back to the fact that in my own eyes, I loved the picture and the design of the display which was the most important factor in my buying decision.

My point for this insanely long message, for all the lurkers like myself, go see the display for yourself and make your own decision. This forum is a great place to help guide your decision and learn things you never knew existed, like what SSE was, what OTA means, and 2:3 reversal. The experts here are great to have, but what it should ultimately come down to is what you personally think of the display and what you will be willing to pay for it. Hate to keep using you as an example UMR, but in his posts, he never said the A2000 was a bad set nor have I read anything negative about this display from the current owners. In fact, I think they are all too excited about owning such a fine TV that they are too busy watching it. How about some thoughts and satifaction levels from current owners that have had some time now to use the set. I would love to hear some opinions on there feelings of owning this set after reading some of the past posts.

I was somewhat dismayed after finding and reading the Warren Report . BUT...I don't see the noise that I see on Samsung models on the A2000. And as I was watching Saturday Night Live this past weekend I was amazed at how good HD can look. Some of the other HD shows are hit and miss but DVD's look very good. I'll wait to see what some of the magazines have to say about the UMR report regarding the A2000. Ah, was a bad day when the mighty Casey struck out.

[UxiSXRD]

Very interesting. Roughly how far out were the Samsung, XBR1, and A2000 before the calibrations?

[ericsatidiitedu]

Originally Posted by umr

... What I said was "It does do inverse telecine on 1080i material, but not of very high quality."

Is the inverse telecine's reduced quality visible as noise in the picture (a nuisance, but not huge), as apparent frame-rate problems (stutters or dropped frames - a disaster to me), or as something else? Thanks!

[umr]

Originally Posted by UxiSXRD

Very interesting. Roughly how far out were the Samsung, XBR1, and A2000 before the calibrations?

No reason to be rough here is the data for the Samsung before.

[umr]

Originally Posted by UxiSXRD

Very interesting. Roughly how far out were the Samsung, XBR1, and A2000 before the calibrations?

Here are the before measurements for the XBR1.

[umr]

Originally Posted by UxiSXRD

Very interesting. Roughly how far out were the Samsung, XBR1, and A2000 before the calibrations?

Here are the before measurements for the A2000. What I find is the gray scale values vary wildly between samples of displays, but the tristimulus is more consistent.

[stevenjw]

Originally Posted by dmass

The danger of a forum like this is it points out the warts, then that is all you can see.

Oh look, Jessica Simpson has a wart on her ass (you'll need the HD-DVD and a SXRD to see it on though). Maybe her newly upgraded sister will look better.

My advice is to stop looking for the warts and enjoy the picture. Life is way too short to be this critical. You won't find perfection at any price, so stop looking. Take a look at an A2000 for yourself. Judge with your own eyes and if you see something you like it, buy it.

I only wish I could do that with a Simpson girl....warts and all.

[evilore]

Interesting, umr, thanks.

[funkfunk]

Thank you UMR for sharing your results.

It is really informative since I am looking to purchase this set. I feel a little deflated after reading it, but I still appreciate it. I'm also looking forward to other calibrator's assessment of this set.

I saw the set last night at CC. It looks good, but it only had the hawaiian HD feed on. And according to UMR, you will not see a difference with a good feed. But at home, I will probably be watching lower quality feed, so this does concern me.

[umr]

Originally Posted by jbug

I was somewhat dismayed after finding and reading the Warren Report . BUT...I don't see the noise that I see on Samsung models on the A2000. And as I was watching Saturday Night Live this past weekend I was amazed at how good HD can look. Some of the other HD shows are hit and miss but DVD's look very good. I'll wait to see what some of the magazines have to say about the UMR report regarding the A2000. Ah, was a bad day when the mighty Casey struck out.

You should take heart that this is only a single sample. It is possible that things will improve as time goes on. The newer XBR1 sets are generally better than the earlier models.

[ghstudio]

I am not at all surprised that the A2000 is not perfect in every way...and I won't be surprised when the XBR2 arrives and it has it faults as well. I don't know of a car on the road that doesn't have some design flaw or problem that folks complain about....ditto with HDTV's.

I am ready to move to HDTV from my 46" Mitsubishi RP and I want a reasonably good set...well, actually, like everyone else, I want the clearcut best set out there. Unfortunately, there isn't one absolutely perfect set. I have bought much hifi gear over the years and I compare it to death in the stores. Know what? When I get it home, the one I selected always sounds terrific to my friends, family and even though I know the sonic problems, to me as well.

So I am trying to find the generally best 60" set under $3500. I think the A2000 is probably so much better than what I have that it will be my choice...and I'll live with the problems. Today, I have my speakers too close to the Mitsubishi and I can see the misconvergence when I'm close...you would say it's just terrible....but from 10', it still looks pretty darn good.

Certainly the A2000 is a cut above most of the other brands out there for lots of reasons. I'll wait to see the new JVC's but then I'll probably buy an A2000 and it will probably have a red shift and some digital glitches, but I'll still be buying one of the best on the market.

[AVBill]

umr,

Thanks for all your posts. You are really helping us less knowledge folks to make the right choices!

I can understand that your expensive equipment can record the differences in color/gray-scale, but what I'm wondering is: do you feel you can personally notice the color/gray-scale differences between the a2000, XBR1, and HL-S (making the comparison after your perfect calibration or each)? Is the color/gray-scale difference between these calibrated sets like night-and-day or is it subtle at best? I am asking if you, a highly sensitive person, can readily notice the differences not Joe Shmoe.

[pchung3009]

This might be a stupid question, but from experience, the older RPTV's had to be calibrated at least once a year and even twice as the set got older to maintain a quality picture, whether or not the feed was good or bad. Luckily, my service contract/EW covered these calibrations. My question is, once you get the SXRD ISF calibrated, is this something you will have to invest in every year or every other year or do the settings never change? What about the DLP diplays? I know with the newer technology like LCOS/DLP/LCD have made these displays better than the traditional RPTV's, but I was wondering if I will have to spend another grand over the next 3-5 years on calibrations. Stupid question, but thought I would ask for the rest of the lurkers out there.

[umr]

Originally Posted by AVBill

umr,

Thanks for all the posts. You are really helping us less knowledge folks to make the right choices!

I can understand that your expensive equipment can record the differences in color/gray-scale, but what I'm wondering is: do you feel you can personally notice the color/gray-scale differences between the a2000, XBR1, and HL-S (making the comparison after your perfect calibration or each)? Is the color/gray-scale difference between these calibrated sets like night-and-day or is it subtle at best?

I can most definitely see the difference.

Gray scale tracking effects noise suppression my old nemesis. Consider this. You are watching a dark scene and as it gets dark the color shifts dramatically. The eye is not very sensitive to illumination differences, but it is very sensitive to color if what should be a shallow ramp like the edge of a face suddenly shifts color it will look strange and probably noisy instead of smooth and natural.

The primary/secondary errors are more subtle, but still important. Good images just look more real when those are very close to correct. I find that until you get to the HLS level you are still short of where you want to be. I did a job fairly recently for a graphic artist for example. He thought his HLS was as good as it could get. When I finished he was stunned at the level of realism. He even asked about color correcting his computer monitor to the same level. Great color is just that. Without it you may have a colorful image, but it is not very real looking. Great primaries, secondaries and gray scale all contribute to to this.

[Covak]

umr, anything to say about the A2000's overscan? Easy to fix via service menus?

And for anyone: can an average Joe get into the service menus? I hear it's easy to mess up a TV if you get into the service menus and don't know what you're doing. People say "Write down every default setting first!" But it sounds like some things (like overscan) are easy enough for anyone to adjust. Hopefully reducing/disabling filters, as umr has done, is also something we could do ourselves. If only we knew how to get in...

Thanks for all of the great info, umr, and all of the other owners for their posts. I'm looking forward to picking up a 50" A2000 as soon as I can.

[BertWoo]

Originally Posted by HoundDogCatia

This has been posted sevral times. I believe the depth is about 18".

I don't believe the base dimensions of the 50" have been posted.

[umr]

Originally Posted by pchung3009

This might be a stupid question, but from experience, the older RPTV's had to be calibrated at least once a year and even twice as the set got older to maintain a quality picture, whether or not the feed was good or bad. Luckily, my service contract/EW covered these calibrations. My question is, once you get the SXRD ISF calibrated, is this something you will have to invest in every year or every other year or do the settings never change? What about the DLP diplays? I know with the newer technology like LCOS/DLP/LCD have made these displays better than the traditional RPTV's, but I was wondering if I will have to spend another grand over the next 3-5 years on calibrations. Stupid question, but thought I would ask for the rest of the lurkers out there.

I find these displays hold a calibration much better than a CRT. There will be some shift, but nothing close to as severe as the initial state. Most calibrators offer reduced fees for touchups and I do not recommend them unless requested.

[umr]

Originally Posted by Covak

umr, anything to say about the A2000's overscan? Easy to fix via service menus?....

The overscan was about 3 percent on the sample I looked at which I consider in specification. I did not attempt to change it, but the controls were present.

[funkfunk]

The price for A2000 is definitely very attractive. I just don't like the fact that Sony is knowingly putting DRCv1 in their product when they already have DRCv2 and DRCv2.5 ready to go.

[Googer]

I'll be sure to post before & after grayscale and tristim charts as well for the one that I do. I must say that the before charts on that particular A2000 are actually decent though for what they are - meaning the measured results for an uncalibrated set. Perhaps this is why the grayscale on my coworker's set merely looked like it needed some work to me instead of being grossly way out of alignment - this would tends to coincide with the before-calibration grayscale that umr posted, so that may end up being 2 samples precalibration that are similar there.

Also, it's likely I'll be back at my coworker's place at some point before I do the full calibration (which is waiting on two things at the moment - one being his bulb to age some more, the other being me waiting to get my Eye-One Pro back from Gretag Macbeth with a fresh recertification of its accuracy ), so I may already dig into playing with the sharpness / LPF service menu settings and see if I can figure it out - I don't need my spectroradiometer nor does the bulb's age matter to do that much, just some test patterns so I can truly see what's going on as I manipulate the settings.

[dmass]

Originally Posted by Googer

I'll be sure to post before & after grayscale and tristim charts as well for the one that I do. I must say that the before charts on that particular A2000 are actually decent though for what they are - meaning the measured results for an uncalibrated set. Perhaps this is why the grayscale on my coworker's set merely looked like it needed some work to me instead of being grossly way out of alignment - this would tends to coincide with the before-calibration grayscale that umr posted, so that may end up being 2 samples precalibration that are similar there.

Interestingly when i saw the charts i thought that this might be a better TV out of the box for some folks, expecially if they are not getting calibrated. Looking forward to a second sample here.

[jbug]

What page if UMR's review? I can't find it.

[pchung3009]

Originally Posted by BertWoo

I don't believe the base dimensions of the 50" have been posted.

http://www.sonystyle.com/intershopro...KDS50A2000.pdf

This is your best bet, but it's hard to tell what the actual base is vs. the whole display front to back, side to side.