Onkyo HT-S990THX

[G-star]

$900 is WAY too much for any HTIB, you're paying for the THX name with this one. i doubt the speakers and sub are much better than in the 7X0 package. like ron said, it isn't very hard to shop for separates, and the benefits you'll gain in sound quality are not small, we're talking major improvements here.

go through some of the longer threads in this forum and you'll see just how many people have ditched their HTIB's for separates b/c those systems just don't cut it after awhile, with their muddy dialouge and hollow sound.

do yourself a favor and avoid this step alltogether. onkyo and yamaha make good HTIB's for those on a very strict budget, but for this much scratch, you can build a system that is light years ahead of the best HTIB.

[ShamHollingera]

Hey Gstar,

I'm not really understanding where you are coming from here, hopefully you can educate a noob.

How can you say that this unit sucks because it comes in one box? When I look at this system, the speakers in particular, the specs are a lot better than the 790 which I have heard a lot of complaints about. I have heard very few reviews from users of the 990, and nobody say anything negative about it except people generalizing that htib's suck. I agree that almost all htib's i've heard do suck a great deal, but looking at the specs (the dual 5" woofers, 12" subwoofer, etc) I got the feeling that this is not your average htib. Throw in the thx cert as a bonus, makes me think it at least meets some level of quality???

I have considered piecing a system together, but I have no idea how to match the timber and all that jazz so that i get a complete sounding system.

Summary: I'm a noob who doesn't know much, this system looks like its a lot better than any other htib i've seen (still trying to hear one set up before i buy). I'm just wondering if you've heard the system, or if there is any other reasons why this system is bad other than it comes in one box??

Thanks, Sham

[G-star]

sham,

i never said that this system "sucks", it is probably one of the best all-in-one box systems you can buy. however, for $900, i think that there are other options that will give you superior sound quality and bass relative to what the 990 will do.

forget about THX certification, i don't put much stock in that. IMO it is a marketing manuver much like saying these HTIB's are "1000 WATTS!!!!!!", which is also B.S. onkyo has to pay to get that certification, and they are passing along that cost to the consumer.

i haven't heard the 990 in person. but i have heard several other onkyo HTIB's, and i have come to the firm conclusion that speakers/subwoofers are not onkyo's strong points. they make GREAT receivers. the value of their HTIB's lies in the fact that they give you those quality receivers in those packages. are the 990 speakers/sub substantially better? maybe, but i seriously doubt it.

so my advice to you, based on personal experience, is to go with what onkyo does best, and that is to buy one of their fine receivers. get your speakers from a real speaker company whose products can survive on their own merits in the market. likewise for the subwoofer.

there is a TON of information here on building your own system, it just takes a little research. most people who have done so are former HTIB owners. myself included.

[ShamHollingera]

Thanks G-star! Good points, that i'm gonna take into consideration! I appreciate your patience and input.

[luckyram]

G-star,

Please post a system or combo you feel can match the performance of the 990 that even comes close to its price point.

I've recently auditioned it and for the price/contents I don't think there are many, if any, separates that when TOTAL COST is factored in can deliver at the same $. Once you total up the 7 speakers, subwoofer AND 7.1 receiver I'd like to see the amount you arrive at.

The 990 is now available for $849 if one looks around and I'm sure in the weeks/months ahead it will drop in price. I wouldn't be suprised to see it available for $599 - $699 by Xmas/ year end.

When price is a minor or no object, of course one can find the top of the heap in quality but many of us need a excellent system at an affordable price especially when we dished out over $5 G for the plasma (+ extra for wires, surge protectors, ext. warranties, etc.).

While I'd agree with you about some of the HTIB's available mass market and at the big store chains, the 990 is a different animal.....It is much like the Harmon Kardon CP 35 which that company put together as a collection of matched separate components and has held up very well in reviews and comparisions to separates.

I'm not saying you're one, but many people who've spent a lot of money on separates refuse to accept that a well designed, quality system from a major manufacturer can compete with their expensive, marquee named ones and be quite adequate in performance at that.

At the very least, you should audition it before making a blanket statement that a better system can be put together at the same price.

[Leftey]

I tell yall, I've trying to find flaws in the system and I'm just not finding any. The sound quality is fantastic. I'm wearing out the Queen of the Damned soundtrack right now and it sounds beautiful. Very full of sound. And I'm running the audio from my computer to my 360 then to the recvr, without a hitch.

[Ron Temple]

Originally Posted by luckyram

G-star,

Please post a system or combo you feel can match the performance of the 990 that even comes close to its price point.

I've recently auditioned it and for the price/contents I don't think there are many, if any, separates that when TOTAL COST is factored in can deliver at the same $. Once you total up the 7 speakers, subwoofer AND 7.1 receiver I'd like to see the amount you arrive at.

The 990 is now available for $849 if one looks around and I'm sure in the weeks/months ahead it will drop in price. I wouldn't be suprised to see it available for $599 - $699 by Xmas/ year end.

When price is a minor or no object, of course one can find the top of the heap in quality but many of us need a excellent system at an affordable price especially when we dished out over $5 G for the plasma (+ extra for wires, surge protectors, ext. warranties, etc.).

While I'd agree with you about some of the HTIB's available mass market and at the big store chains, the 990 is a different animal.....It is much like the Harmon Kardon CP 35 which that company put together as a collection of matched separate components and has held up very well in reviews and comparisions to separates.

I'm not saying you're one, but many people who've spent a lot of money on separates refuse to accept that a well designed, quality system from a major manufacturer can compete with their expensive, marquee named ones and be quite adequate in performance at that.

At the very least, you should audition it before making a blanket statement that a better system can be put together at the same price.

luckyram, you make a good point regarding 5.1 vs. 7.1. and matching price points. I for one don't think 7.1 is even a worthwhile format in most small to medium sized room, but let's take a look.

I haven't heard the 990 speaks, but did take a look at them. They have been upgraded, better tweeter and drivers (but that's not saying much). I also looked at the sub, which has been re-worked, but left unfinished...WTF? Take the grill off and you see naked MDF(this is a pet peev). I was going to go into a rant, but just changed my mind. This HTIB (and this is a HTIB forum) undoubtedly delivers increased value over their and other lesser offerings.

If you're going to drop a grand(or close to it) you most likely want quality, as well as, an easy solution. The HK 25/35 is a better example because the receiver/DVD player are better stuff than the Onkyo. G-star said it, these HTIBs give you a decent entry level base with the receiver (and with HK receiver and DVD), but the speakers/sub are as good as they can make them and still make a decent margin on the product.

Go to a speaker manufacturer and you'll still get Chinese OEM speakers, but the fit, finish and SQ will have to compete with other direct competitors...it's quite a bit better. Hearsay right? Get to a Frys and compare the HTIB speakers with the entry level offerings in the speaker rooms. Then look at the sale prices that come up every week.

My intention wasn't to slam anyone's purchase. As said before, I went this route. Look up my early posts about the Onkyo 770 and see how my mind has changed.

My recommendations for midfi value at entry level prices at close to $1000 all in.

B Stock SBS-01s w/ PB10 (5.1) with a receiver of your choice. Ok, that's ~ $1400, but the sub is sooo good that you feel like you spent $5Gs. www.svsound.com

Rocket X-LS package (5.1) with a receiver of your choice. You can get very close to a grand with the right receiver. These speakers are the bomb. Designed by the guy behind GR Research. They are like a fine bottle of $50 Chardonnay. www.**********. It comes with an overacheiving sub, just not SVS quality.

These are guaranteed to smoke the Onkyo. Said too much...hope this helps.

[micah3sixty]

Let me help answer your question Luckyram. My first surround system was the Onkyo HT-S760 which served me well for 2 years and then I upgraded to 7.1 with the Onkyo HT-S780. I recently upgraded my speakers and subwoofer and receiver that blow away either of these systems and also beats out the 990 for price and performance. There are lots of deals out there for great speakers from manufacturers that KNOW speakers that will have much better/flatter response and dynamics. Below is the system I now have and what I paid for it by shopping good deals from respectible speaker manufacturers. A good setup that I would recommend while they last are Infinity Primus speakers that are being cleared out at Circuit city. 2 or 3 pairs of Primus 150s, a Primus C25 center and a BIC H100 12" sub paired with an Onkyo TX-SR503 would best the 990 in price and performance. These can also be found online too.

Here are my audio deals:

Advent H500 towers, got them for $59 each, original cost was $299
Advent H200 bookshelfs, got them for $69 a pair, original cost: $199
Advent H100 bookshelfs, got them for $49 a pair, original cost: ~$180
Advent Heritage Center, got for $24, original cost: $149
Total cost for 7.0 setup above: $276.25

SVS PB10-NSD, got if for $399 b-stock (still looks new and they replaced the amplifier for free cause the auto/on switch was damaged in shipping).

Onkyo TX-SR603x silver I picked up as an Open Box for $180.

So my total cost for this setup was $855.25 but had I paid full retail for it, I would have spent $1914 so I paid roughly 45% of original MSRP!!! A $2000 setup for under $900 aint bad in my book.

[G-star]

lucky,

ron and micah have explained in detail what i alluded to in my first post, so i won't repat what they have said. they're right on the money.

when you have nothing to compare it to, HTIB's of the 990's caliber will of course sound great. your first true 5.1 experience is a memorable one.

i originally owned an onkyo 780, and never ran it in 7.1 mode (overkill for my room). i got rid of it b/c i wasn't happy with the quality of the speakers or sub. dialogue was difficult to understand, sound was thin and hollow, and the sub was a one-note wonder. the receiver was excellent, though.

for $850, here's what i would do, knowing what i know now:

onkyo 503 - $180
2 pair athena B1.2's - $240
1 athena C1.2 - $140
Bic Acoustech H-100 - $225

Total: $785. use the rest of the money for cables/stands/etc. or if you really have your heart set on 7.1, throw in another pair of B1.2's and your at the MSRP of the onkyo 990 system, but you'll be light years beyond it in terms of sound quality.

[andross77]

Originally Posted by G-star

lucky,

ron and micah have explained in detail what i alluded to in my first post, so i won't repat what they have said. they're right on the money.

when you have nothing to compare it to, HTIB's of the 990's caliber will of course sound great. your first true 5.1 experience is a memorable one.

i originally owned an onkyo 780, and never ran it in 7.1 mode (overkill for my room). i got rid of it b/c i wasn't happy with the quality of the speakers or sub. dialogue was difficult to understand, sound was thin and hollow, and the sub was a one-note wonder. the receiver was excellent, though.

for $850, here's what i would do, knowing what i know now:

onkyo 503 - $180
2 pair athena B1.2's - $240
1 athena C1.2 - $140
Bic Acoustech H-100 - $225

Total: $785. use the rest of the money for cables/stands/etc. or if you really have your heart set on 7.1, throw in another pair of B1.2's and your at the MSRP of the onkyo 990 system, but you'll be light years beyond it in terms of sound quality.

G-Star, would you mind critiquing this system? i posted it in the receivers forum and got a sour response.

Pioneer 1016 -$430
Infinity Primus 360's (pair) - $400
Infinity Primus 160's (pair) - $160
Infinity Primus c25 - $130
SVS SB12-Plus - $700

this comes in at $1,820 w/sub and $1,120 w/o sub.

What i was told to do was change the primus 360's for ascend 340's and the primus 160's for the ascend 170's. (and of course the center channel out too). Like the ascends would be VASTLY superior in SQ. This adds about $500 or more to the package and am wondering how true it is.

I was originally looking at the Onkyo 990 HTiB but would guess that since 95% of the people on this forum seem to agree that separate components will always yield better SQ for a similar price (albiet with more effort than going to CC and buying 1 big box), they are probably not all wrong.

i have a few questions though. Will my system be SEVERELY handicapped if i held off on the sub for a while? i will be doing 60% games/ 30% movies/ 10% music. Also, what is the difference between a tall 3' floor standing speaker and a bookshelf? obviously in the same line the bookshelves are cheaper but i saw a Polk Audio in Fry's that was $900 for one bookshelf (Li9's ?). Does the floorstanding speaker give a fuller sound? are the bookshelves offered just so people can fit them in smaller spaces?

i appreciate your and others advice. This post isn't just to G-Star but anyone that can advise me on my setup.

[Ron Temple]

Originally Posted by andross77

G-Star, would you mind critiquing this system? i posted it in the receivers forum and got a sour response.

Pioneer 1016 -$430
Infinity Primus 360's (pair) - $400
Infinity Primus 160's (pair) - $160
Infinity Primus c25 - $130
SVS SB12-Plus - $700

this comes in at $1,820 w/sub and $1,120 w/o sub.

What i was told to do was change the primus 360's for ascend 340's and the primus 160's for the ascend 170's. (and of course the center channel out too). Like the ascends would be VASTLY superior in SQ. This adds about $500 or more to the package and am wondering how true it is.

I was originally looking at the Onkyo 990 HTiB but would guess that since 95% of the people on this forum seem to agree that separate components will always yield better SQ for a similar price (albiet with more effort than going to CC and buying 1 big box), they are probably not all wrong.

i have a few questions though. Will my system be SEVERELY handicapped if i held off on the sub for a while? i will be doing 60% games/ 30% movies/ 10% music. Also, what is the difference between a tall 3' floor standing speaker and a bookshelf? obviously in the same line the bookshelves are cheaper but i saw a Polk Audio in Fry's that was $900 for one bookshelf (Li9's ?). Does the floorstanding speaker give a fuller sound? are the bookshelves offered just so people can fit them in smaller spaces?

i appreciate your and others advice. This post isn't just to G-Star but anyone that can advise me on my setup.

I've heard the Ascends...very nice, but when you get from the top of entry level (the Infinitys) to comparisons with well regarded ID brands like Ascend you're getting into subjectivity on a higher plane. For example, I own entry level Polks. I listened to the Ascends...they were undoubtedly better. I'd like to hear them again (in my room). Were they as much better as my speaks vs. HTIB speaker?...no way. It was a subtle difference of tweeter, midrange and imaging. I didn't have to run out and order them.

So if this is your first system...and you like the Infinitys...why not? I know you'll be blown away. You can always upgrade later (like me). You may, in fact, prefer the Ascends. Find an owner in your area and ask for a listen. It's the only way you can know without ordering a pair. It's your ears...

Bookshelf vs floorstander shouldn't matter with a good sub, but I've got to admit I prefer floorstanders... No stands and a larger soundstage, IMO.

Get the sub...

[JohnnytheSkin]

Getting close to pulling the trigger, but I have a question.

I'm looking at buying the HD-A1 and it has 5.1 analog output for the Dolby HD and DTS HD audio formats. If I plug them into the Onkyo receiver, will the two back surrounds output sound if the input is only 5.1? Will this degrade the audio soundtrack from the HD-DVD?

Also, what is "special" about the THX specific sound modes (Cinema, Game, Music)? Are they preferred by people on here? Should I use THX Cinema for movie watching and not DTS or Dolby Digital on the receiver?

PLEASE HELP!

[JohnnytheSkin]

Add me to the latest list of buyers on this system...placed the order a half hour ago! I would like any help with my list of questions in the previous post, as well as suggestions for center speaker mounts.

I can't WAIT for the weekend when my gear arrives! I'm like a kid before Christmas

[ShamHollingera]

Congrats on the purchase Johnny, I can only imagine how excited you must be!!!

Let us know how it goes when you get it! set up, how it sounds etc!!

As for the questions about the THX sound modes... I can't speak personally on them, but in the user manual from onkyo that you can download for free it explains them!!

The manual can be found here: http://www.onkyousa.com/download/own...fm?cat=Systems

It doesn't have all the info in the world but its at least a starting point for discussion!
Here is what it says:
THX
Founded by George Lucas, THX develops stringent standards
that ensure movies are reproduced in movie theaters
and home theaters just as the director intended.
• THX Cinema
This mode is for watching movies, which are typically
recorded and edited on the assumption that they
will be played in a sizable place like a movie theater.
It carefully optimizes the tonal and spatial characteristics
of the soundtrack for reproduction in the
smaller home-theater environment. It can be used
with 2-channel sources processed with other formats,
and multichannel sources. Surround back
speaker output depends on the source material and
the selected listening mode.
• THX Cinema2
This mode expands Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1-
channel sources for 7.1-channel playback. It doesthis by analyzing the composition of the surround
source, optimizing the ambient and directional
sounds to produce the surround back channel output.
This is a new and improved mode especially for
home theater use.
• THX Music Mode
This mode is designed for use with music. It expands
Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1-channel sources for 7.1-
channel playback.
• THX Games Mode
This mode is designed for use with video games.
• THX Surround EX or
This mode expands Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1-
channel sources for 6.1/7.1-channel playback. It’s
especially suited to Dolby Digital EX sources. THX
Surround EX, also known as Dolby Digital Surround
EX, is a joint development between Dolby Laboratories
and THX Ltd.

Sham...

[G-star]

Originally Posted by andross77

G-Star, would you mind critiquing this system? i posted it in the receivers forum and got a sour response.

Pioneer 1016 -$430
Infinity Primus 360's (pair) - $400
Infinity Primus 160's (pair) - $160
Infinity Primus c25 - $130
SVS SB12-Plus - $700

ron explained it better than i could have, the difference between HTIB to good entry level speakers is BIG, but those differences become more subtle as you move up the food chain.

if this is your first system, i think you'd be happy with the infinities. i personally prefer bookshelf/sub systems rather than floorstanders/sub, but that's just me.

that is a nice system you've put together there, certainly a huge step up from the onkyo 990. you could save a bit of money by going with 2 pair of bookshelves, and maybe getting a smaller sub (don't recall your room size, though).

and as ron said, don't leave out the sub, it is critical, especially for HT/gaming.

[Leftey]

Originally Posted by JohnnytheSkin

Add me to the latest list of buyers on this system...placed the order a half hour ago! I would like any help with my list of questions in the previous post, as well as suggestions for center speaker mounts.

I can't WAIT for the weekend when my gear arrives! I'm like a kid before Christmas

Johnny, congrats on the system. I think you'll love it and be impressed with it. I know I am. Once you get it, just keep tweeking it alittle at a time to get the right combination of sound level out of each speaker to where your optimum listening position is in the room. And the jungle scenerio on the thx disk that comes with it is pretty kool. It really enhanses what a 7.1 system sounds like.

[andross77]

Originally Posted by G-star

ron explained it better than i could have, the difference between HTIB to good entry level speakers is BIG, but those differences become more subtle as you move up the food chain.

if this is your first system, i think you'd be happy with the infinities. i personally prefer bookshelf/sub systems rather than floorstanders/sub, but that's just me.

that is a nice system you've put together there, certainly a huge step up from the onkyo 990. you could save a bit of money by going with 2 pair of bookshelves, and maybe getting a smaller sub (don't recall your room size, though).

and as ron said, don't leave out the sub, it is critical, especially for HT/gaming.

thanks for all the helpful advice guys. I ended up going with the 6 channel insignia receiver at bestbuy for $130 and 6 Insignia bookshelves that i ended up paying $15.50 each for. So for under $240 i have a complete surround sound system hooked up to comcast and my xbox 360 in my bedroom. The 6" woofers on the speakers give good bass and i decided after much reading that it's not worth it to spend all the money on a system until it's in a dedicated HT room or at least a large mainly entertainment room.

I plan on getting the new Oppo 972 dvd player, svs pb-12+ sub, Ascend 340 SE's (F,R,C) and Ascend 170's for the 4 surrounds. And probably the Pioneer ts80v or whatever the elite version is. Of course this will be a much more costly system and i will want to hook it up to a better tv (Sony SXRD 55" for $2k or something similar) than my current 32" LCD.

But getting into audio is fun and i eventually plan on spending $3k-$5k total for audio and components and another $2k-$4k for the tv. I just need to win the Iowa lottery for $201 million like that other couple today

[Ron Temple]

Originally Posted by andross77

thanks for all the helpful advice guys. I ended up going with the 6 channel insignia receiver at bestbuy for $130 and 6 Insignia bookshelves that i ended up paying $15.50 each for. So for under $240 i have a complete surround sound system hooked up to comcast and my xbox 360 in my bedroom. The 6" woofers on the speakers give good bass and i decided after much reading that it's not worth it to spend all the money on a system until it's in a dedicated HT room or at least a large mainly entertainment room.

I plan on getting the new Oppo 972 dvd player, svs pb-12+ sub, Ascend 340 SE's (F,R,C) and Ascend 170's for the 4 surrounds. And probably the Pioneer ts80v or whatever the elite version is. Of course this will be a much more costly system and i will want to hook it up to a better tv (Sony SXRD 55" for $2k or something similar) than my current 32" LCD.

But getting into audio is fun and i eventually plan on spending $3k-$5k total for audio and components and another $2k-$4k for the tv. I just need to win the Iowa lottery for $201 million like that other couple today

LOL...way to go. Enjoy your new stuff and when you get ready to upgrade there will be something else "hot" to want.

[bmasiak]

Well, after a lot of thinking I pulled the trigger on this system as well.
It now completes my setup which already includes:

Samsung DLP 1080p 56"
Sony DVD DVP-NS75H with HDMI and upconverting
Comcast Motorola 6412 Phase III

I can't wait to hook it up this Saturday so I can enjoy the Bears beating up on Buffalo on Sunday.

I do have a question about speaker wires. How good are the ones that come with the system? Should I get different ones or just go with the ones in the package?

Thanks

[Leftey]

bmasiak, the wire that comes with is very thin, something like a 50 g wire. I would run to lowes or Homedepot and get 16g or if you're running over 50 ft lengths get 14g. But you can always try out the supplied wire to see if you like it. It's color coded for ease of setup.

[rsk]

Hey guys, HT-noob here but long time AVS user.

I'm looking at this system as an upgrade (and first ever HT system) to default TV speakers, so I think my wife and I will be happy with the sound quality.

What I'm curious about is what does the reciever do if you don't hook up all the speakers? For example, we may do a 3.1 setup for starters, then add the rear speakers later... will the reciever intelligently remix the rear sounds and output them from the front speakers, or will it just cut them out completely?

Also the big benefit to doing a HITB for us right now is having everything all ready to go. I just spent quite a while researching TV/Stand/etc and don't have any energy anymore to research all the audio components. I also have a horrible tendency to want to only buy the best (total overkill?) and with audio that can get horribly expensive and I likely wouldn't notice it.

[G-star]

Originally Posted by rsk

What I'm curious about is what does the reciever do if you don't hook up all the speakers? For example, we may do a 3.1 setup for starters, then add the rear speakers later...

I also have a horrible tendency to want to only buy the best (total overkill?) and with audio that can get horribly expensive and I likely wouldn't notice it.

1. yes, you can run in 3.1 mode, you just won't hear any of the surround channel information if you use the standard dolby digital/DTS modes. you will see the benefits of dialogue separation and stereo effects, etc.

2. if you're starting off with 3.1, and are the type of guy who wants quality gear, stay away from HTIB, even the better ones like the 990. if you are discerning at all, you will notice the lack of dialogue clarity and overall mudiness of onkyo speakers.

ask yourself this: "why do i want to pay for speakers i'm not going to use, and that can't survive on their own merits in the A/V market?" HTIB's are great for people on a very strict budget who want instant 5.1 or 7.1. at the price this thing is selling at, you can do much better quite easily when it comes to speakers/sub.

if i were in your position with that kind of budget, i'd start with a solid 2.1 system.

receiver: H/K 240, onkyo 504, pioneer 816/1016, panny xr-57, low end denon/marantz. $200 - 300.

speakers: a pair of nice bookshelves, maybe advents, infinities, athenas, polks, av123, or even ascend 170's. $150 - $300.

sub: Bic acoustech H-100, mirage S-12 (if you can find one), SVS PB-10, HSU STF-2 or VTF-2. $225 - $500.

add the center speaker next, then the surrounds, as budget/space allows. you'll be light years ahead of the even the front of the HTIB crowd, with gear that has proven itself to be worth its salt in the marketplace.

my $0.02.

[Noya]

@ RSK,

Here is your best bang for the buck option:

Buy 7 of these speakers:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/produ...?oid=75519&c=1

Along with a FACTORY refurbished receiver (original warranty):
http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/item/MARSR4600

100ft of Speaker wire (you might need less):
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style=

Digital Coaxial (DVD player to Receiver):
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style=

Banana plugs for your speaker wires:
http://monoprice.com/products/produc...seq=1&format=2

Subwoofer Cable
http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...ormat=2&style=

Then go for a subwoofer along the lines of an SVS or HSU, which are undoubtedly the best for the money- so don't skimp.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/

And there you go, similar price of the Onkyo HTIB with much better sound and quality.

Here is an old review of the Primus 150's:
http://www.stereophile.com/standloud...s/404infinity/

[rsk]

Reply for G-star and Noya:

To Both of You:
I want to send a very sincere thank you for you both taking the time to give comprehensive and detailed explanations of your reasons in addition to all the suggestions for me. I was originally using the HTIB approach to avoid *thinking* too much about this process because I'm so burned out from 8 months of researching the video side of our HT. Your replies were just what the doctor ordered. Now let me reply to both of you individually:

Originally Posted by G-star

2. if you're starting off with 3.1, and are the type of guy who wants quality gear, stay away from HTIB, even the better ones like the 990. if you are discerning at all, you will notice the lack of dialogue clarity and overall mudiness of onkyo speakers.

ask yourself this: "why do i want to pay for speakers i'm not going to use, and that can't survive on their own merits in the A/V market?" HTIB's are great for people on a very strict budget who want instant 5.1 or 7.1. at the price this thing is selling at, you can do much better quite easily when it comes to speakers/sub.

if i were in your position with that kind of budget, i'd start with a solid 2.1 system.

Your comments rang very true to me. I've long been a "build your own computer, home theater, home office, etc." type of guy but apathy was leading me down the HTIB path.

I also really liked your approach to starting with a solid "core" system, more specifically, the 2.1. After reading Noya's link to the stereophile review of the Infinities, I was confident enough to make that a 3.1 starter system (using another as the center channel).

Originally Posted by Noya

Here is your best bang for the buck option:

Buy 7 of these speakers:
http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/prod...o?oid=75519&c=1

Along with a FACTORY refurbished receiver (original warranty):
http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-bin/item/MARSR4600

100ft of Speaker wire (you might need less):
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...format=2&style=

Digital Coaxial (DVD player to Receiver):
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...format=2&style=

Banana plugs for your speaker wires:
http://monoprice.com/products/produ...&seq=1&format=2

Subwoofer Cable
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...format=2&style=

Then go for a subwoofer along the lines of an SVS or HSU, which are undoubtedly the best for the money- so don't skimp.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/

And there you go, similar price of the Onkyo HTIB with much better sound and quality.

Here is an old review of the Primus 150's:
http://www.stereophile.com/standlou...rs/404infinity/

This was probably one of the most concise and helpful references as an alternative HTIB posts I've seen. I sent this off to an audiophile friend of mine who looked it over and said "Damn, yea that's actually an excellent list to not only start with, but likely keep you happy for a very long time". I really appreciate you putting that together for me.

Now to both of you, here is what I was thinking, let me know what you think:
Receiver: Denon AVR-1907
Speakers: 3 x Infinity Primus 150 (Left, Center, Right for starters)
Sub: SVS PB10-NSD
Note: I'm still looking over Noya's link to factory refurbished w/ Warrenty receivers... those prices are awesome.

This is basically what you guys were suggesting except with a Denon receiver. Noya do you have any good quick-reference comparisons where I could learn about Marantz? I've only ever looked into Denon and there is that tendency to buy-what-you-know, but I don't want to pay 2x just out of ignorance.

The reason I haven't included 2 more speakers immediately for the rear channel is my room won't allow for wires running to the rear speakers, so I'm thinking of a wireless bridge (more specifically the Kenwood wireless bridge) for the rear speakers... in which case I might just get 5 of the speakers right away, and add the wireless bridge later. Also I love monoprice, awesome store.

Let me know what you think, you two have really saved me a lot of time and effort jumping starting at this point, I feel rejuvinated

[Noya]

You're welcome. I just wanted to prevent someone from purchasing a HTIB when there are much better options available, especially in the price range of the Onkyo 990.

As for Marantz, here is the wiki entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marantz

It's a higher-end brand that you won't see in Circuit City/Best Buy, just in the higher-end "Boutique" stores. And from the Wiki entry and G-Star's recommendations, it appears Marantz/Denon are part of a family. Their displays white lettering and brushed aluminum faces do look similar. I froogled the Denon 1907 and it's available new for about $100 more than the Marantz, though I don't know if that's from an authorized dealer (if that bothers you). I would definitely go for the 1907. I haven't logged on to AVS in quite a while, but I do remember reading that the Denon 07 models' DSP and Auto calibration systems are much improved over the 06 series (don't quote me on that).

As for the Infinity Primus, I would buy 5 of them just because of the price and 7 if your room could* accommodate them in the future. The difference between 5.1 and 7.1 is noticeable. Is there no way for you to run the wires under the carpet or behind some base trim?

[G-star]

that looks like a very solid 3.1 system. i've always had a lot of respect for denon receivers, i don't think you'd be disappointed with a 1907. i used to own an older pro-logic marantz receiver, and that thing had a very sweet, warm sound. i wouldn't hesitate to go for either one, or maybe an H/K 240/340/435.

your speaker selection is solid, really at this price point it is more a matter of preference. take a listen to them if you are at all able to.

the sub is an excellent choice, there really aren't any < $500 subs that can match it for sheer extension, output, and sound quality, IMO. it is a monster performer in small to medium sized rooms, especially for HT.

i'm glad you've found the advice helpful, and like Noya said, there are much better options than HTIB at the price the 990 is selling for. you are paying through the nose for the THX label with that system, and IMO its not worth it.

good luck and happy hunting.

[rsk]

Hmm, the audio friend when asked "Do you know Marantz" replied "Oh hell yes", and since you two spoke very highly of them, just for comparison sake with the Denon, which Marantz would you suggest I keep my eyes peeled for? I haven't learned the differences in the models yet.

Also as far as the wiring goes, it's unfortunate, but the room is like a rectangle, laying long-ways (TV against one long side, couch against the opposing long side) and then both ends of the rectangle are *open*. One side is a kitchen, the other side is a sunken doorway into the master bedroom... so running cable along the edge of anything is out of the question especially since we are ripping it all up and putting down laminate floor. The only option I was aware of doing was using super-thin cabling, but that stuff is like $5 a foot and I was looking at like $250 or more worth of cable, which is expensive enough for me to say "forget it".

Then when I was thinking about holding up finishing the flooring until I figure out the wiring situation, I got a shipment notice for the TV yesterday... so now I'm in crunch-mode... doh!

[G-star]

Originally Posted by rsk

Hmm, the audio friend when asked "Do you know Marantz" replied "Oh hell yes", and since you two spoke very highly of them, just for comparison sake with the Denon, which Marantz would you suggest I keep my eyes peeled for? I haven't learned the differences in the models yet.

i'd seriously consider the SR 4600, right in your price range:

http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-.../MARSR4600BLKA

they have a very warm, musical sound and are built like tanks. enough connectivity options and pre-amp outputs makes this one worth a hard look.

[rsk]

Originally Posted by G-star

i'd seriously consider the SR 4600, right in your price range:

http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-.../MARSR4600BLKA

they have a very warm, musical sound and are built like tanks. enough connectivity options and pre-amp outputs makes this one worth a hard look.

Few things:
1) Looks almost *exactly* like what I want. Dug up some reviews, looks excellent.

2) The silver one is $10 cheaper... but I like the black.

3) The lack of high end video switching is not a concern at all, my TV (Mitsubishi WD-65831) has enough inputs and I'm not a fan of running signals through more components if it's avoidable, regardless of how high quality the connections are.

4) There are only 2 optical audio inputs, I'll admit I don't know much about recievers, but I was thikning of doing optical audio from my STB to the receiver and from my XBox 360, then that leaves my DVD player, future HD-media player and optionally a PS3 or Nintendo Wii that I'd like to do optical over as well (isn't optical the best way to transfer audio?)

#4 was really my only concern, everything else looks fantastic and the price point was actually 1/2 what I was expecting to pay. Any ideas on the optical-input situation? Maybe I'm just thinking about this all wrong or missing some detail about audio connections? Or maybe there is another receiver that would fit the bill better?

[G-star]

Originally Posted by rsk

#4 was really my only concern, everything else looks fantastic and the price point was actually 1/2 what I was expecting to pay. Any ideas on the optical-input situation? Maybe I'm just thinking about this all wrong or missing some detail about audio connections? Or maybe there is another receiver that would fit the bill better?

it looks like that receiver has 2 optical digital inputs, and 2 coaxial digital inputs, so you could theoretically have up to 4 digital audio sources, provided at least some of those sources provide both connection options...

for digital audio, optical/coaxial connection makes no difference, bits is bits, you won't see any difference using one or the other. both transmit digital information to the receiver's decoding processors.