PS3 Objective Measurements

[sspears]

Update: 2-9-07 - I just re-checked using FW 1.51.

I ran some objective tests on the PS3 today, my results are below. I have included Panasonic, Samsung and Toshiba results as well. I only looked at the HDMI to HDMI scenario.

I fed the output of the PS3 (and other players) into a DVDO VP50 and then into the Marantz VP11S1. I looked at both the 1080p and 1080i outputs.


HDMI Output Format
PS3
R'G'B'
2-7-07: Y'CbCr

Panasonic DMP-BD10
Y’CbCr 4:4:4

Toshiba HD-A1
Y’CbCr 4:2:2

Samsung BD-P1000
Y’CbCr 4:4:4

Pixel Cropping:
PS3
Left: 0
Top: 0
Right: 0
Bottom: 0
Comments: This is perfect behavior. You actually get all 1920x1080 pixels.

Panasonic DMP-BD10
Left: 0
Top: 0
Right: 0
Bottom: 0
Comments: This is perfect behavior. You actually get all 1920x1080 pixels.

Toshiba HD-A1
Left: 0
Top: 0
Right: 0
Bottom: 0
Comments: This is perfect behavior. You actually get all 1920x1080 pixels.

Samsung BD-P1000
Left: 8
Top: 2
Right: 1
Bottom: 0
Comments: As you can tell, the Samsung is not able to provide a true 1920x1080 active image. You are only getting 1911x1078 of real picture.

Dynamic Range – HDMI to HDMI
PS3
2-7-07: Still clips even when using Y'CbCr
Above White – Fail – Clips
Below Black – Fail – Clips

Panasonic DMP-BD10
Above White – Fail – Clips
Below Black – Fail – Clips
Comments: The player has built-in picture controls. If you lower contrast down to -4 through -7, it will no longer clip. However, you are compressing the dynamic range. Steps are introduced, which show up as contouring. If you adjust brightness, you can make below black appear. If you do this, you are actually raising the black level of the player. I suspect this clipping may be caused by the bug in the Silicon Image 9030 HDMI transmitter. If they were to output Y’CbCr 4:2:2, it may fix the problem. I recommend you do not change the picture controls.

Toshiba HD-A1
Above White – Pass
Below Black – Pass

Samsung BD-P1000
Above White – Pass
Below Black – Pass

Luma Resolution
I looked at both horizontal and vertical resolution out to Nyquist. All four players were fine in this regard. There was no apparent roll-off.

Chroma Resolution
PS3
The horizontal Nyquist burst was rolled-off. It was not gone like the BD-10, but not as good as the Samsung and Toshiba.

Panasonic DMP-BD10
The horizontal Nyquist burst was pretty much gray. Something in the player must be filtering out this high resolution information. Vertical was fine.

Toshiba HD-A1
Both horizontal and vertical produced the full resolution out to Nyquist.

Samsung BD-P1000
There was a loss of vertical resolution at Nyquist. I suspect this is caused by the filtering in the Cortez (Genesis/Faroudja) chip.

Chroma Bug
PS3
ICP: This player does not have a filter to reduce the ICP artifact.
2-2: Pass – This player does not suffer from 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Pass – This player does not suffer from 2-3 chroma bug.

Comments: The upsampling it not high quality, though it is correct. You can see some steps in the chroma. The BD-10 looked better, when it did not have CUE.

2-7-07: The steps in chroma are now gone, not sure which update corrected this, but chroma upsampling is more or less perfect.

Panasonic DMP-BD10
ICP: This player does not have a filter to reduce the ICP artifact.
2-2: Pass – This player does not suffer from 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Pass – This player does not suffer from 2-3 chroma bug.

*1.02 FW update - I am not sure what happened, but it now has CUE. I am going to try and locate a 1.0 player just to double check my original results.
2-2: Fail – This player suffers from 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Fail – This player suffers from 2-3 chroma bug.

Toshiba HD-A1
ICP: This player does not have a filter to reduce the ICP artifact.
2-2: Fail – This player suffers from the 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Fail – This player suffers from the 2-3 chroma bug.

Samsung BD-P1000
ICP: This player does include a filter to reduce the ICP artifact. Sadly it is present on both 1080i and 1080p. If a filter is included, it should only exist for the 1080p output.
2-2: Fail – This player suffers from the 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Fail – This player suffers from the 2-3 chroma bug.

Deinterlacing
The PS3 does not appear to be able to output 1080p when the source is encoded as 1080i. It changes the output resolution back to 1080i while 1080i content is playing. The Panasonic is using the AVC2510 while the Samsung is using the Cortez. Neither player can deinterlace 2-2, but both support 2-3 deinterlacing.

If you have the DVDO VP50, Anthem D2 or the Marantz VP11S1, I highly recommend you use the 1080i output of these players. It will do a better job creating the 1080p image than the players will.

Color Space Conversion
PS3
2-7-07: Had not tested this before
I verified that R'G'B' output is done as 709 on HD, which is correct. My test was HDMI to HDMI. (PS3 -> VP50)

[Robert George]

Now that you have run OBJECTIVE tests, which I for one appreciate, what is your SUBJECTIVE opinion of the PS3 as a BD player, both on its own and compared to the other BD players available?

My interest is personal. I have a PS3 on the way and I am returning a Samsung. based on numbers alone, it appears I am trading one set of shortcomings for some different ones?

[nic17]

Originally Posted by Robert George

Now that you have run OBJECTIVE tests, which I for one appreciate, what is your SUBJECTIVE opinion of the PS3 as a BD player, both on its own and compared to the other BD players available?

My interest is personal. I have a PS3 on the way and I am returning a Samsung. based on numbers alone, it appears I am trading one set of shortcomings for some different ones?

From the test it looks like the PS3 is the best out of the Panasonic and Samsung.
The Panasonic and PS3 test results were exact except for:

Chroma Resolution
PS3
The horizontal Nyquist burst was rolled-off. It was not gone like the BD-10, but not as good as the Samsung and Toshiba.

Panasonic DMP-BD10
The horizontal Nyquist burst was pretty much gray. Something in the player must be filtering out this high resolution information. Vertical was fine.

The Samsung has the filter problem and also suffers from 2-2 and 2-3 chroma
bug. I guess this would line up with the majority of the reviews saying the PS3 blu-ray playback was better than the Samsung and on par with the Panasonic. I have the philips BD player and I am very happy with it, so if the picture is as good as the phillips or better than I will keep the PS3.

[Robert George]

Yeah, I read all that too.

Objective measurements are instructive to a degree. I am interested in Stacey's subjective opinion of the PS3 specifically as a Blu-ray player. In other words, how do these measurements translate into real world performance?

[sspears]

I was planning on putting the PS3 in my mini theater and the BD-10 in the main theater. Given the results, I will swap them. The PS3 is faster in terms of disc access, etc... I also like the bluetooth control. My gear is in a back room and IR to that room sucks. I was able to use the remote (controller at the moment) in the theater while the PS3 was in the rack w/o any issues.

The PS3 is a lot louder than I was expecting. I don't own an Xbox 360, so I can't compare, but it is louder than everything else in my system, except the projector. I used to think my TiVo's were loud, now they are drowned out.

The chroma bug pretty much kills chroma resolution over 9 Mhz, or Nquist / 2. This translates into fine chroma detail. If you compare Corpse Bride on the PS3 to the Samsung or Toshiba, you will see a perceived increase in saturation on the PS3.

If you are watching B&W content, then the PS3 will look identical to the BD-10. It looks a bit sharper than the Samsung on MPEG2 and the same on AVC and VC-1.

The VP50 did have a slightly more difficult time performing IVT on the PS3 vs. the BD-10. I have seen this with SD DVD players too. For example, the VP50 performs better IVT from an SDI RP82 vs. an HDMI Oppo 970.

[Robert George]

Interesting. Sounds like I made a good choice.

[nic17]

Originally Posted by sspears

I was planning on putting the PS3 in my mini theater and the BD-10 in the main theater. Given the results, I will swap them. The PS3 is faster in terms of disc access, etc... I also like the bluetooth control. My gear is in a back room and IR to that room sucks. I was able to use the remote (controller at the moment) in the theater while the PS3 was in the rack w/o any issues.

The PS3 is a lot louder than I was expecting. I don't own an Xbox 360, so I can't compare, but it is louder than everything else in my system, except the projector. I used to think my TiVo's were loud, now they are drowned out.

The chroma bug pretty much kills chroma resolution over 9 Mhz, or Nquist / 2. This translates into fine chroma detail. If you compare Corpse Bride on the PS3 to the Samsung or Toshiba, you will see a perceived increase in saturation on the PS3.

If you are watching B&W content, then the PS3 will look identical to the BD-10. It looks a bit sharper than the Samsung on MPEG2 and the same on AVC and VC-1.

The VP50 did have a slightly more difficult time performing IVT on the PS3 vs. the BD-10. I have seen this with SD DVD players too. For example, the VP50 performs better IVT from an SDI RP82 vs. an HDMI Oppo 970.

That is interesting about the noise because every review I have read said the PS3 was virtually silent when playing blu-ray, but your saying its drowning out your TIVO The only differences in the reviews were from a heat standpoint some saying its warm and others saying its very hot! I will be really disappointed if the PS3 throws a better pic than the phillips but I can't use it because of the noise. I was wondering what your thoughts about the future upgrades for the PS3. Do you feel it can be made to be an even better player with firmware upgrades in the future from Sony? Thanks for the review.

[xbdestroya]

The PS3 can definitely be made into a better BD player as time goes on; for decoding the Cell has virtually limitless power, and thus anytime a better decode algorithm is developed for it, it can just be bundled in with whatever firmware update and - presto! - better BD playback.

As for noise, my system is near-silent, but I may have a different reference point for what silence means than sspears has (well, obviously). If you're actually watching a movie though and the PS3 is moree than five feet away, I couldn't possibly imagine how one could hear it.

[ctakim]

Thanks for the great post and wealth of information!

[krinkle]

Originally Posted by sspears

I was planning on putting the PS3 in my mini theater and the BD-10 in the main theater. Given the results, I will swap them. The PS3 is faster in terms of disc access, etc... I also like the bluetooth control. My gear is in a back room and IR to that room sucks. I was able to use the remote (controller at the moment) in the theater while the PS3 was in the rack w/o any issues.

The PS3 is a lot louder than I was expecting. I don't own an Xbox 360, so I can't compare, but it is louder than everything else in my system, except the projector. I used to think my TiVo's were loud, now they are drowned out.

The chroma bug pretty much kills chroma resolution over 9 Mhz, or Nquist / 2. This translates into fine chroma detail. If you compare Corpse Bride on the PS3 to the Samsung or Toshiba, you will see a perceived increase in saturation on the PS3.

If you are watching B&W content, then the PS3 will look identical to the BD-10. It looks a bit sharper than the Samsung on MPEG2 and the same on AVC and VC-1.

The VP50 did have a slightly more difficult time performing IVT on the PS3 vs. the BD-10. I have seen this with SD DVD players too. For example, the VP50 performs better IVT from an SDI RP82 vs. an HDMI Oppo 970.

Hmmm, interesting observations. My PS3 is silent during BD playback. Wonder if you got a buggy unit?

The only time I can hear the fan is during video game play and it is still very quiet. I have to turn down the volume on the game to zero to hear it.

When playing a BD, even after turning volume to zero the PS3 is not making an audible noise from 10 feet away. The only way to hear it then is to go put your head next to it.

[Dauod]

Thanks for the indepth information SSpears. I'm nine feet away from my PS3, and noise is not an issue for me at all. It does get hot, but no issues with overheating. I've watched three BD's so far with no glitches to report at all. The PS3 was running for about 14 hours straight today between movies and some gaming, and I had no problems at all. I'm pretty pleased with the PS3 so far.

[Blu-Devil]

Were the Samsung measurements made with or without the new 1.0 firmware?

[sspears]

I have looked at all three Samsung FWs and they all produce the same results with my VC-1 test patterns.

I need to update my previous recommendation. Set the PS3 to output 1080p and also select 1080i. The 1080p is not created by using a deinterlacing chip like the Samsung and Panasonic. It just does a 2-3 frame repeat of the 24p pattern. This means it will never drop out of film mode.

For those using a Ruby, you can compare the stair case scene on MI3. It loses lock on the Ruby due to its poor IVT. The Pearl is better in this regard. The high frequency vertical detail trips it up their bad edit detector (and faroudas) and this produces moire on the steps. The PS3 never loses lock, so the moire is minimal.

As far as PS3 noise, I was sitting on the floor doing something next to the rack when I realized how loud it was. I might have been 2' away. It is all relative. I have heard many people say how silent their display is only to be let down on how noisy it really is. My first CRT was a Dwin, which had no fans. That was silent. All else is noisy. The VP11S1 is pretty damn loud relative to the Ruby.

[avshaman]

Yeah, your comment about it being loud doesn't seem to fit with what the majority of us are experiencing with the PS3. The PS3 is very quiet with Blu-ray playback. Much, much quieter than the Xbox 360.

Your objective measurements do seem to coincide with what we are seeing with our eyes.
Great Blu-ray player!

[sspears]

Another note. I thought I would be clever and try and force the PS3 to stay in 1080p when the source was 1080i. I removed 720p and 1080i as output options. You can't remove 480p. When it hit the 1080i content, it set the output to 480p.

Another test was to set 1080i and 720p. When I played a disc, it set the output to 720p instead of 1080i. very odd. It rankes order of resolution as: 480p, 1080i, 720p and 1080p.

[Robert George]

The only time I can hear the fan is during video game play

The PS3 was running for about 14 hours straight today between movies and some gaming...

It plays games too!?

[Art Sonneborn]

Stacey,
Thanks very much for posting your findings......very useful for all of us.

Art

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert George

Yeah, I read all that too.

Objective measurements are instructive to a degree. I am interested in Stacey's subjective opinion of the PS3 specifically as a Blu-ray player. In other words, how do these measurements translate into real world performance?

On that note, I think that many AVS forum members would really benefit from Stacey or Kris someday doing a ranking of their objective measurements into how they translate into the subjective real world viewing experience.

For instance, would one consider the existence of the Chroma Bug to be far more detrimental to the typical viewer’s experience than say Dynamic range, or vice versa?, would you place Chroma Bug at 2 on a scale of importance in regards to 8 for minor pixel cropping………..or would they seem of equal importance to most folk ?

People here have a good handle on how important noise, bootup time, etc. is to them but may not have the techo savy to decipher all the objective measurements.

So, comments like this are truly appreciated …………..
“I was planning on putting the PS3 in my mini theater and the BD-10 in the main theater. Given the results, I will swap them.”

Not to mention the fact that it seems someone is living the good life up there in Sammamish.

[hd90210]

I think PS3 is loud too, not to the xbox360 level but it's louder than most DVD players. I think it's all relative, some people say Pearl/Ruby projector is slient quiet but I find them to be noisy.

[eecubed]

My impression was that the PS3 ranks resolution as: 1080p, 1080i, 720p, and 480p. It will down res but not up res to the highest that the source material, the player, & the display can all agree on.

[lymzy]

Originally Posted by sspears

It just does a 2-3 frame repeat of the 24p pattern. This means it will never drop out of film mode.

When the source is 1080i60 video or film with flag, what will PS3 do? It couldn't deinterlace it to 1080p60 and have to output as 1080i60 or 480p60?

[sspears]

When the source is 1080i60 video or film with flag, what will PS3 do?

The output of the PS3 changes to 1080i60. My cadence (IVT) and ICP tests are encoded this way.

[Marc Alexander]

Originally Posted by sspears

Another test was to set 1080i and 720p. When I played a disc, it set the output to 720p instead of 1080i. very odd. It rankes order of resolution as: 480p, 1080i, 720p and 1080p.

In my testing, I find it ranks 720p above 1080i only for games. For Blu-ray, it switches to 1080i (I am set to 720p and 1080i).

[Rob Tomlin]

Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn

Stacey,
Thanks very much for posting your findings......very useful for all of us.

Art

As another who plans on using the PS3 as their first BD player, I strongly second this sentiment!

[Larry Sutliff]

Originally Posted by Robert George

My interest is personal. I have a PS3 on the way and I am returning a Samsung.

Robert, just out of curiosity, what made you return the Samsung? You seemed to give it fairly high marks when you reviewed it a few weeks ago.

[Jules343]

Loud/silent is relative as is hot/warm. IMO, when the PS3 has been running for hours esp. after playing games it does get loud. When the unit cools down i.e. surfing the internet from the dash for 10-15 miutes the fan steps down and the unit is quiet. If you have the PS3 in a fairly tight space and will be using it for movie marathons be aware that the fan will most likely be running at full speed and thus it will be loud.

I wouldn't say the unit gets hot, as to me hot means you can't touch or hold something. The ps3 never get to that point and stays much cooler than a comcast cable box. It does get warm though and blows out warm to hot air. Again the air would never burn you, but I know to some it's more than warm.

[SlipJigs]

What does it do with SD DVD's? Upscale?

[Robert George]

Robert, just out of curiosity, what made you return the Samsung? You seemed to give it fairly high marks when you reviewed it a few weeks ago.

Pretty simple, really. I wanted a better player but was not willing to spend the extra money for the Panasonic or Pioneer. When my choices were among the dedicated players, at $799, I considered the Samsung the best value for my circumstances (having to buy two formats). Make no mistake, I am still satisfied with the performance of the Samsung. However, early reports of the PS3 being a bit better on BD performance got me to looking into that.

The 20 GB PS3 had dropped to below $900 on Ebay. A few were selling between $800 and $850 by last Friday. I decided that if I could get one for no more than $750, I'd pocket a bit over $100 by returning the Samsung and still wind up with a better BD player. I was time constrained, though. I only have until the 4th of December to return the Samsung, so I had to make a decision. I decided to go for the PS3 and was able to get one for my budgeted price.

Hell, who knows, I might even want to play a game someday.

[ninjanki]

Finaly, someone doing well defined tests and reporting results in a readable format. I guess now we can figure how teh PS3 deals with video scaling for several different situations and, if necessary, create a list of requests for improvement to Sony. It's a programable unit, so some scaling and de-interlacing might be added by software...(I want to see it doing 1080i deinterlacing to 1080p, as an example, as well as downscaling/upscaling everything to one set output resolution - 720p for my current projector - 1080i for CRTs, etc...)

Allan

[Paul Clancy]

Originally Posted by SlipJigs

What does it do with SD DVD's? Upscale?

Outputs 480p only. Actually I find it to be excellent quality with sd dvd via hdmi. There are 2, 3 step noise filters that can be defeated. I've replaced my sd dvd player in favor of the ps3. An amazing machine for the price.