360 Add on Kong vs SD DVD audio

[LexMan]

aaronwt,

It might seem to be flawed to compare two different versions of the same movie, but I don't have another HD DVD player. Are you saying that the sound from the A1 and the add on is exactly the same? Why would they remix an entire soundtrack to sound so different? Wouldn't they sound similar? Wouldn't the higher bit rate soundtrack be an improvement? Why does soundtracks with plain DD and TrueHD sound much better off the add on than DD+?

Many others have also stated that it is not a loss of bass that is the problem. Bass is there, but little else. Its hard to describe. There is very little envelopement and sounds very lacking as some people have described as flat. I would think a higher bit rate sound format that is downconverted to DD (at 640kbit/s) to sound as good if not better than the standard DVD title (448kbit/s).

I would expect the audio difference to be like DD and DTS and not like an entirely different soundtrack. I doubt they changed the soundtrack...

I think it is a valid issue.

[AlbertA]

Sounds like dynamics compression to me.

[MSpeed6]

Originally Posted by AlbertA

Sounds like dynamics compression to me.

it is. Like explosions don't sound any louder then dialog, sounds very flat.

[flipcody]

I now own 4 HD-DVDs (wooo-hooo):

MI:3
The Thing
King Kong
V for Vandetta

The only one that sounds great is V for Vandetta while played in TrueHD. In my mind there is no way this is how DD+ sounds played on a A1 (or other HD-DVD player). I just watched MI:3 and the whole sequence on the bridge sounded very flat. Even my wife who does not know much of these things commented that it sounded "off".

[Incensed]

Start the 360.

Hit the Guide button to open the dashboard.

Select the Speaker icon that appears above the "Select Music" button in the dash.

Note the default volume setting is at approx. 30%.

Adjust it to 100% - full right.

Hit OK or A on the controller to commit the change.

Close the dash by pressing Guide again.

Insert HD-DVD disc.

Notice that the audio has expected dynamic range, you can crank your amp/receiver back to normal listening levels, etc.

I didn't break out a meter, but my ear says that with the dash music volume max'd, the HD player's audio level matches the SD audio level when playing a SD DVD directly on the 360.

[MSpeed6]

it might be all in my mind but i think that made a difference. I won't know untill morrow because if i pump up my reciever the neighbors are gonna be pissed.

[Luffy]

Just tried it but it didn't seem to help at all. Tried U-571 and the DD+ sound is still flat compared to the DTS version. They might be different mixes but it can't possibly be so different that there is such a clear difference between the two. I only tried just the opening sequence of Constantine and the DD+ sounds ok but the TrueHD sound meatier. I really can't watch Constantine right now but tomorrow I probably will.

[ckong]

I think the xbox team need to tweak their downconversion algorithm a little. Hopefully they can have fix by year end.....

[metalsaber]

Originally Posted by Incensed

Start the 360.

Hit the Guide button to open the dashboard.

Select the Speaker icon that appears above the "Select Music" button in the dash.

Note the default volume setting is at approx. 30%.

Adjust it to 100% - full right.

Hit OK or A on the controller to commit the change.

Close the dash by pressing Guide again.

Insert HD-DVD disc.

Notice that the audio has expected dynamic range, you can crank your amp/receiver back to normal listening levels, etc.

I didn't break out a meter, but my ear says that with the dash music volume max'd, the HD player's audio level matches the SD audio level when playing a SD DVD directly on the 360.

Nothing done here. The speaker volume is not the issue really. The LFE channel is just not there. My standard DVDs just rock the room, this barely sounds like it has a hicup.

[MeasuredPath]

I hope MS resolves this issue soon.. I am very tempted to return my drive and get a stand alone if this keeps up.

[rudy2112]

Originally Posted by Incensed

Start the 360.

Hit the Guide button to open the dashboard.

Select the Speaker icon that appears above the "Select Music" button in the dash.

Note the default volume setting is at approx. 30%.

Adjust it to 100% - full right.

Hit OK or A on the controller to commit the change.

Close the dash by pressing Guide again.

Insert HD-DVD disc.

Notice that the audio has expected dynamic range, you can crank your amp/receiver back to normal listening levels, etc.

I didn't break out a meter, but my ear says that with the dash music volume max'd, the HD player's audio level matches the SD audio level when playing a SD DVD directly on the 360.

Boy, I feel stupid, I cant find the speaker icon, could you guide me to it. Which tab is it on?

[MSpeed6]

yeh that speaker thing didn't do anything. soundeffects still sound muted compared to dialog.

[medrberg]

i tried the speaker icon trick as well and it did not do anything. i still need to crank the volume way up.

[MSpeed6]

who do we shoot an email to get this thing working properly??? Just saw "Accepted" sd side vs HD. Suprisingly SD audio blows away the HD.

[aaronwt]

Originally Posted by MSpeed6

it is. Like explosions don't sound any louder then dialog, sounds very flat.

Definitely nothing like that on my 5.1 and 7.1 system from the 360 with the HD DVD addon.

[MSpeed6]

with DTS and trueHD its fine but DD+, its pretty weak. I"m not crazy either, many people here are having the same issue. I've just tried "Accepted" dual disk on the same HDdvd drive. SD sounds miles better.

[metalsaber]

Originally Posted by aaronwt

Definitely nothing like that on my 5.1 and 7.1 system from the 360 with the HD DVD addon.

What receiver and speakers are you connected to?

[JonStatt]

I agree, something is not quite right. To me it sounds like compression. On the opening logos with Kong as soon as you start playing the disc before even the menu appears, as the "rumble" sound starts on the first logo, the volume should get louder, but it stays static. It is so obviously compression.

With True HD discs, there isn't a problem, so whatever bug/coding error exists with DD+, is not there with True HD...obviously a different codec.

Microsoft CAN fix this. It is all in software. The fact that TrueHD works fine, is evidence of that fact.

Therefore, we need to sit back and wait for the fix...in the meantime it would be good if Microsoft could confirm that they are looking into it, and feel confident they are going to resolve it in a short time.

Jonathan

[MSpeed6]

yeh if we don't complain, this issue is going to get ignored.

[HCK-UK]

Originally Posted by JonStatt

I agree, something is not quite right. To me it sounds like compression. On the opening logos with Kong as soon as you start playing the disc before even the menu appears, as the "rumble" sound starts on the first logo, the volume should get louder, but it stays static. It is so obviously compression.

With True HD discs, there isn't a problem, so whatever bug/coding error exists with DD+, is not there with True HD...obviously a different codec.

Microsoft CAN fix this. It is all in software. The fact that TrueHD works fine, is evidence of that fact.

Therefore, we need to sit back and wait for the fix...in the meantime it would be good if Microsoft could confirm that they are looking into it, and feel confident they are going to resolve it in a short time.

Jonathan

Do you think that TrueHD is works fine ? I think it is better than the DD+ but the SD DVD version sounds better than TrueHD.

[LexMan]

HCK-UK, which movie are you referring to? King Kong does not have a TrueHD soundtrack but only a DD+ soundtrack. I have yet to play a movie that has a TrueHD soundtrack yet but I have a handful queued through BlockBuster Online.

[flipcody]

Originally Posted by aaronwt

Definitely nothing like that on my 5.1 and 7.1 system from the 360 with the HD DVD addon.

Please list your equipment.

Also, are you comparing to the same movie on a DVD?

[HDStud]

Well after reading this thread I decided to do an A/B test using the add-on and my SD DVD player with KK both set to DD+. I was shocked how much the SD blew the add-on out of the water audio wise. The addon sounded almost muffled, lacking umph, especially during the dinosaur chase scene. Thank you for bringing this too my attention. MS needs to address this ASAP, when they do I may re-purchase the addon, as of now its going back.

I also noticed the audio sounded the same during MI:3 HD DVD but I didnt have a SD copy to compare it too but it just didnt sound dynamic at all during action scenes. I suspect the same result if I A/B'd it.

Love the video but the audio is a serious step back.

My set up:

Rcv - Interga DTR 6.4
Speakers - Energy Connoisseur C9,CC1,C-3 (5.1 set up)
Sub - Def Tech ProSub 1000
DVD player - Pioneer DV 563A

And to the poster who says we shouldn't compare different formats. I thought the upgrade from SD to HD DVDs was suppossed to improve both video and audio. Am I wrong for assuming that?

[FilmMixer]

Originally Posted by medrberg

i tried the speaker icon trick as well and it did not do anything. i still need to crank the volume way up.

I'd be curious some that are hearing no difference are using the analog outs, and some are using the digital outs... just curious if that setting only works on one and not the other...

The other interesting note is that although DD+ and THD are different codecs, the both must be decoded to PCM through post the mixer before being re-encoded in real time into legacy DD.

[LexMan]

I'd be curious some that are hearing no difference are using the analog outs, and some are using the digital outs... just curious if that setting only works on one and not the other...

The other interesting note is that although DD+ and THD are different codecs, the both must be decoded to PCM through post the mixer before being re-encoded in real time into legacy DD.

I think you're right and people need to clarify what outputs they are using. I am using the optical output and bass is not an issue nor do I think the volume adjustment in the 360 menu would do anything as that appears to be a analog adjustment. So it most likely the lack of bass is with the analog output.

The sound is very poor when compared to the SD version fo Kong, but not because of lack of bass but lacking in envelopment and is flat...

[HCK-UK]

Originally Posted by LexMan

I think you're right and people need to clarify what outputs they are using. I am using the optical output and bass is not an issue nor do I think the volume adjustment in the 360 menu would do anything as that appears to be a analog adjustment. So it most likely the lack of bass is with the analog output.

The sound is very poor when compared to the SD version fo Kong, but not because of lack of bass but lacking in envelopment and is flat...

I am using the optical out and for me bass is an issue. During the various scenes within KK, Dinosaur and T-rex fight there is hardly any bass at all. Also on Batman Begins on DD+ the bass is lacking and the whole range is flat.

You mentioned analogue outs on the xbox 360, where can these be found so I can test it ?

[HDStud]

I tried both optical and analog, same results

[aaronwt]

Originally Posted by metalsaber

What receiver and speakers are you connected to?

A Denon 3806 for the 7.1 system(with polk speakers and an SVS subwoofer), and a Spherex Xbox 5.1 system.

[amirm]

Just a quick FYI that we are looking at this problem. I don't have an update on it because I was on vacation for a while. But for now, wanted to let you know that we are finalizing our DTS encoder which once done, should produce the same experience as the Toshiba player which everyone was happy with....

[MSpeed6]

Sweet!!!!