Sony Grand Wega SXRD, III & IV Tweakers - HTPC Users Thread (ATI/NVIDIA)

[vidkidd]

** 1/31/2006 **
This thread about to be updated for the SXRD addition to Sony's Grand Wega XBR family of Micro Display Television sets. HDMI and VGA connections will be explored and documented.




Overview
The purpose of this thread is to provide GWIII Users with a difinitive resource for all your GWIII tweaks. I will attempt to keep the 1st message in this thread updated with all the exciting tweaks that the AVS forum GWIII audience contributes.

There are many different techniques and approaches to achieve the best image on the GWIII. There are some things you can do on the set and some things that just won't work. Perhaps with a bit of cooperation we can all create a single source for all our hard work with the set.

Thanks,
Vidkidd


Powerstrip Learning Resources
I started to write an overview of how this works but since there are many excellent guides out there that I used, here they are:

• Powerstrip Guide for the powerstrip impaired - This article is a must read for the new powerstrip user.
• Custom Resolution Guide for 1080i HDTV-HTPC-POWERSTRIP-RADEON - A guide is tailored for Mitsubishi CRT Rear Projection HDTV's. The concepts of Powerstrip and video timings apply apply to the GWIII. Some of the resolutions listed there work. Many do not. I have listed the ones in this thread that I know work.

Powerstrip 1st Steps

• Use the Correct Windows Monitor Driver
  Make sure you change the default Plug and Play Monitor that is selected by windows for your GWIII The standard monitor driver will inhibit you from gaining much more than 640x480.
  
• Get Powerstrip
  You can get a 30 day trial version of Powerstrip from here: PowerStrip Product Page
• Getting Started
  Once you have Powerstrip installed you can start adding resolutions from the ones listed below. Be careful, I highly recommend working with powerstrip in Dualhead Clone Mode. Meaning you are working on a VGA display at the same time you are working on the GWIII. Without further delay, here are the timings that are known to work:

GWIII Resolution Timings
This section details timings that are known to work on the GWIII in Powerstrip from Entech Taiwan. It's a great utility that allows you to add timings to your HTPC that are not supported by the standard monitor drivers.

• 480P Powerstrip Timings
  720x480=720,16,62,60,480,9,6,30,27000,7
  
• 720P Powerstrip Timings
  800x600=800,248,24,232,600,40,2,111,58712,1 Needs Refresh Lock
  1280x720=1280,80,40,248,720,18,19,30,75600,2310
  1280x768=1280,80,136,240,768,1,12,6,79740,7
  1304x734=1304,32,40,272,734,11,5,23,74250,7
  1312x744=1312,64,136,216,744,1,3,26,79096,2304
  1320x744=1320,64,136,200,744,1,3,22,78140,1
  1344x734=1344,168,48,160,734,24,5,21,78923,2308 *updated 3/4/04
  1376x768=1376,64,136,336,768,9,3,0,86946,2304
  1384x768=1384,128,144,216,768,0,3,0,84203,2304
  1384x784=1384,72,144,216,784,1,3,23,85421,1
  
• 1080i Powerstrip Timings
  640x480=640,50,56,46,480,38,30,14,26730,1
  1776x1000=1776,121,56,239,1000,32,5,88,73980,9
  1920x1080=1920,169,56,295,1080,2,5,38,82350,9 (broke in cat 4.2)

UMR's GWIII Home Theater Calibration
What can I say? This thread says it all. The expert UMR speaks on how to set up your GWIII for optimal Home Theater Usage

UMR Does GWIII XBR & WE

Test Patterns
Here are a couple of test patterns you can use to "assist" in you low level image calibrations. The best way to use them is to use them as a desktop pattern - set to Centered. The 1x1 Vertical and 2x2 Diagonal test pattern illustrates of the the problems with the GWIII that we will figure out.

• 2x2 Diagonal Test Pattern
• 1 Pixel Vertical Test
• 2 Pixel Hotizontal and Vertical Test
• GWIII HTPC Block Test Pattern

SM Adjustments
This section will detail the different areas of the GWIII's service menu and how you can use it to improve your viewing experience:

GWIII SM Excel Worksheet
There was a posting on UMR's thread that contained a .PDF file. I have that file in an exel format and this is text output of what I have been able to find documented across all the formums here at AVS. Here is the file in excel format. I should not this is optimized for 1280x720 with 1/2 inch underscan on all sides.

Monitor Driver and GWIII SM Settings - Original and VIDKIDDS's in Excel format Come on everyone Lets conquer this!
Displaying this in Excel on HTPC while making adjustments makes things very easy

NOTE: The settings i have in the .XLS spreadsheet are LIVE and are updated as I adjust my set. They are the "best" I can do for now for 1280x720. These settings take the following User Menu settings into consideration: I can achieve a "clean" patterns with 1384x784 but i am having problems with 1280x720.

• Mode: Pro
• Brightness - 33%
• Picture - 75%
• Sharpness - 100%
• Detail Enhancer - HIGH
• ...(I dont remember all of this so this will be updated.)

Tweakable SM Area Desctiptions

• DCP-USER[/u] - Adjusts the GWIII's User Menu Setting Offsets.
• DCP-ADJ1 - Adjusts the GWIII's White Balance / Color Balance / Contrast Brightness.
• DCP-ADJ2 - Adjusts the GWIII's Detail, Edge and Black Enhancements.
• Mid1 - Adjusts the GWIII's dispay panels. This effects ->ALL<- GWIII Inputs.
• Mid2 - Adjusts 480i Inputs on the GWIII. Changes are specific to the input you are working with.
• Mid4 - Adjusts 480P/720P/1080i Inputs on the GWIII. Changes are specific to the input you are working with.
• Mid5 - Adjusts the GWIII's Image clarity.

Many Details to come....


Useful Software Links
PowerStrip Product Page
Refresh Lock Product Page


This information is made available as a use at your own risk basis. It has been made avaialble by collecting GWIII data from across the form and placing access to it in a single location.

[Azmodeus]

Does anybody have the 480i or 1080i Timings for

800x600 and 1024x768?

I had it working with the windows default monitor driver in any resolution, but since I installed PS and applied the 720P timings, none of the 480/1080i timings work.

So, anybody?

480i or 1080i in 800x600 and 1024x768?

[vidkidd]

Hey Azmodeus,
I just updated the top of the thread with known working resolutions on the GWIII. You will need to change your monitor driver to the Sony GDM-w900 to access additoinal resolutions.

1024x768 Update
I spent close to an hour this evening trying to get 1024x768 to work on the GWIII. There seems to be some kind of incompatabilty with PS and the GWIII that is similar to the issue I encountered in getting 800x600 to work. Unfortunately, there is no unility available that will allow me to send the GWIII the correct timings to achieve 1024x768. I had all the frequencies exactly where they should be but it is a no go for now. Perhaps the new drivers from Nvidia will correct this issue.

Thanks,
Vidkidd

[MadChemst]

Vidkidd,

So this is where you went then...

Why tell all these people to use the GSM900 driver when they can make their own with powerstrip?

Josh.

[vidkidd]

MadChemst -

Great idea. I can put a link to the .inf file at the top of the thread that I can host on my server. Should we include all the resolutions I listed - or are there too manu? Best question - i what resolutions are missing?

I can create the file - or would you like to?

Thanks,
Vidkidd

[KobeShaq]

960x540

I also think 1336x752 and 1344x756 are worth investigating

I can also host a file if need be. IP is pretty static.

[vidkidd]

Those resolutions should be easy to test. Has enyone out there tried these out yet?

SM Settings / Original and PC Desktop/Game Optimized
I updated the 1st page to include a link to the GWIII's default service mode settings and my current setup. There are a lot of notes based on other AVS posts and my observations. These are Optimized for PC use. I'd be interested in your feedback. I kept it as an excel spreadsheet to make your viewing / editing easier.

NOTE: The original file was a .PDF document from the UMR thread. Credits to follow.

You can grab it here: VidkiddGWIII Exel File

Thanks,

[vidkidd]

I just added in my test patterns for easy downloading. If anyone has additional patterns, we can add them in.

Thanks,
Vidkidd

[iamnaeth]

Hey Vidkidd,

So the 1024x768 is a no go huh? Well, i'm at work and can't recall, but I think the EA Sports games also support 1280x1024. Thats a pretty standard resolution, right? If you wanted to help out with this, I'd love to give some assistance. I'm not really a whiz at this but, I'm a electrical engineer, so I should be able to help a bit after a little learning curve. Send me a PM saying how you start your initial assumptions about bandwidth and frequencies and such. Thanks for your help so far!

[RareB]

Great work vidkidd!!! I can not wait to get home from work to try some of these out.

Can you hurt your LCD by using a incorrect resolution or refresh rate? I knew this was bad on a CRT, but not sure on a LCD.

Thanks,
Chad

[vidkidd]

Hey iamnaeth:

I have added the following section to the 1st page to point you in the right direction for PS learning resources. This is your best starting point to go from. I can followup with the details on setting the Horizontal signal then finishing with the Vertical by adjusting the frontporch, signal witdth and back porch to get the timing to snap in.

Thanks,
Vidkidd

Additional Powerstrip Learning Resources
I started to write an overview of how this works but since there are many excellent guides out there that I used, here they are:

Powerstrip Guide for the powerstrip impaired - This article is a must read for the new powerstrip user.
Custom Resolution Guide for 1080i HDTV-HTPC-POWERSTRIP-RADEON - A guide is tailored for Mitsubishi CRT Rear Projection HDTV's. The concepts of Powerstrip and video timings apply apply to the GWIII. Some of the resolutions listed there work. Many do not. I have listed the ones in this thread that I know work.

I will add in a link to an advanced overview of the method I use to get custom timings to work on the GWIII. (I actually started writing it. but I figured there is no need to rewrite an expert article.) It will just take a bit of time to create it.

[vidkidd]

Hey Chad,

Under my best understanding that the GWIII is a fixed frequency device. If you send the GWIII a signal that is within it's displayable range, it will display it. If it is outside of that range you will get a black screen. I have not seen any adverse effects to date when adding and adjusting resolutions to work on the GWIII. Perhaps someone can add to this?

Originally posted by RareB
Great work vidkidd!!! I can not wait to get home from work to try some of these out.

Can you hurt your LCD by using a incorrect resolution or refresh rate? I knew this was bad on a CRT, but not sure on a LCD.

Thanks,
Chad

[be4r]

hei vidkidd what does 1:1 mapping meansi seen it come up in the other thread and i was wondering why is it that important we got the PC to sync up to the TV thats real good. Is it possible for the grandwega to have all the standard windows resolutions like 640 but without underscan?

[umr]

vidkidd,

Nice spreadsheet. I have a few comments:

CCPM-1 YCDL sounds like a chroma delay adjustment. This can be useful for compensating devices with poor Y/C timing.

DCP-INT GON, BON, RON are indicated as being able to turn panels on and off. I was not able to reproduce this. Have you been able to?

MID5 MHLC, MVLC are labeled as linearity corrections. I am pretty sure these are filter adjustments.

How do you know some of the parameters are anti-aliasing and timing parameters? Do you have access to Sony chip documentation?

[vidkidd]

Hey UMR.

Thanks for the positive post. Im glad you like the spreadsheet. Anything I can do to help fellow GWIII users in their quest for the ultimate picture. My replies to your questions / comments below:

RE: Anti-Aliasing
I had my excel spreadsheet displayed on the GWIII as I was going through the SM items 1 at a time. As i changed the items labled as "Anti_alaising", additional stray grey pixels that apppeared around fonts, icons, and graphics would either increase of vanish. I was looking for the settings that provided the "cleanest" representation of the image. When we add those additional pixels to our game in an effort to smooth out the edges, we refer to it as anti-aliasing. I wasn't sure what to call - beyond what I was seeing the effect as..

RE: MID5 MHLC, MVLC
Errrr. Ummm. I may have gotten this from somewhere on the the forum. I'll check my notes. I seem to rememeber a short excel spreadsheet that had these labled as such. My laptop with my notes is at the office.

RE: DCP-INT GON, BON, RON
I double checked... Your right - I'm wrong. I'll update the spreadsheet. I must have written down the panel on/off in the wrong spot. I know I hit it and I'll find it again. My GWIII service manual will arrive shortly.

Thanks,
Vidkidd

[vidkidd]

Hey Be4r:

1:1 mapping is for HTPC philes that want to have the absoluetly best picture on the GWIII and are willing to spend what ever time it takes to get it there. For the average user, using the 1st 4 values values in MID4 to position and stretch the image will work for most.

Specifically for 640x480 - you will notice that the image is cropped on the left and right sides. This is in normal and wide. This bugged me as several of my daughters games run in 640x480 and I wanted to have a full-screen experience.

To correct this, You will need to the following:

MID4: DHPL Increase the number so the screen moves right so that the left edge of the start menu is fully visible. You will end up cropping the right side of the screen more.

MID1: MDHO Increase the number so that the right edge of the 640x480 image is fully visible.

MID1: MDHP Center the image in the screen.

all other inputs / resolutions The image may have stretched and you may have to adjust the width of the MID4: DHSL to get the oeft side of the back to where it belongs. You may also have to adjust the position for the left edge: MID4: DHPL Personally I like a little bit of overscan so I get an edge to edge image.

I have my XBR950 set up perfectly for Standard and Wide in 480P. I believe for WIDE mode, I only had to adjust the MID4 settings so that it fills the image full screen. It's been several weeks since I worked on 480P

Come to think of it. I have a completely different SM setting for 640x480 that really unsoftens the image and improves the image quality. I'll have to update the SM spreadsheet with my 480P settings.

Thanks,
Vidkidd

Originally posted by be4r
hei vidkidd what does 1:1 mapping meansi seen it come up in the other thread and i was wondering why is it that important we got the PC to sync up to the TV thats real good. Is it possible for the grandwega to have all the standard windows resolutions like 640 but without underscan?

[MadChemst]

Someone give me an email address to send the file to and I will send you my GWIII driver if you are willing to host it somewhere.

Thanks Tom,

Josh.

[EuG00]

You can e-mail it to eug@yellowC5.com

Did you remember to update it with corrected 1344x734 timings from http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&pagenumber=37 (1344x734=1344,168,48,160,734,24,5,21,78923,2308)

[vidkidd]

Hey EugOO,

Thanks for the corrected 1344x734 timing. I updated the timing list to reflect it. If would be OK with you, I'd like to host the files for the thread. The Handheld Games server is in my AV cabinet - as I have a Business SDSL line running to my home & studio. It will make maintaining the main thread a bit easier as I have to cut and paste the all the URL's.

Do you have any other resolutions you are working with that are not in the 1st page?

Thanks,
Vidkidd

[EuG00]

vidkidd,

If would be OK with you, I'd like to host the files for the thread.

By all means. As long as it hosted somewhere.

Do you have any other resolutions you are working with that are not in the 1st page?

Not really.
I run 1344x734 and takes care of all my needs just fine.
C&C Generals runs in that exact resolution.
Unreal 2003 runs in that res. Too.
Movies, browsing and other computer needs are all fine.

[iamnaeth]

Vidkidd,

Do you think 1280 x 1024 is even possible? Before I start to fool around with it.

[MadChemst]

1280-1024 is certainly possibly if you want to send it an interlaced resolution. We are already able to run 1920-1080i and the set just scales it back to its native rez. Interlaced is not my cup of tea however so if you guys want to persue it, you're on your own.

Josh.

[MadChemst]

Vidkidd,

Have you gotten any further in removing the "ghosting" effects we've encountered before? I changed my SM settings to the "tweaked" version in your and UMR's spreadsheet. The font clarity is okay but there are darker spots in the text than in others. I checked the 1 pixel grid and I'm at our closest 1:1 settings but getting text a little sharper would be fantastic. Let me know if you have any input. You should have my GW3 driver for all these guys if you want to post it. I just emailed it over.

Thanks,

Josh.

[vidkidd]

Hey iamnaeth,

1280x1024 should be possible. I would say to start with the resolution of 1776x1000 as I know that is a working resolution on the GWIII in the catalyst 4.2 drivers. Ive seen 1280x1024 in the fixed resolution mode of 1920x1080 on those drivers and it does visually work. Good luck..

Thanks - Vidkidd

Do you think 1280 x 1024 is even possible? Before I start to fool around with it.

[vidkidd]

Hey MadChemst

Thanks for the GWIII.INI file. It has been added to the 1st post.

I looked at the image from the XBR's internal tuner and I see exactly what you are talking about. The noise is very noticable on upscaled content. 1080i feeds look very clean. I will not know until the Primetime HD content this evening. I'm not going to change it back until I completely understand what is going on 1st.

I wanted to see if this is a problem with all video content playback. I fired up a couple of DVD's to check it out @1280x720. ToyStory2 looked awesome so did HarryPotter 2. Harry Potter has a lot of grainy scenes where the noise was not over amplified.

Here are a couple more things I have set in the user menu: sharpness at 100%, clear wite on, detail enhancer high, black corrector low, gamma corrector high.

Thanks,
Vidkidd.

Originally posted by MadChemst
Vidkidd,

Have you gotten any further in removing the "ghosting" effects we've encountered before? I changed my SM settings to the "tweaked" version in your and UMR's spreadsheet. The font clarity is okay but there are darker spots in the text than in others. I checked the 1 pixel grid and I'm at our closest 1:1 settings but getting text a little sharper would be fantastic. Let me know if you have any input. You should have my GW3 driver for all these guys if you want to post it. I just emailed it over.

Thanks,

Josh.

[RareB]

Hey Vid,
Can you please check that link. It is now working for me.

Thanks,
Chad

[MadChemst]

Vidkidd,

Wait a sec... doesn't this issue remind you of a convergence problem on an older RPTV? Is it possible that the convergence is off by 1 or 2 pixels with one of the panels and that is the reason we can't get vertical 1:1? It really looks like it...

Is it possible to adjust the convergence of this set at all?

The ghosting I speak of is with text. If I look really close, I can see another letter "i" one pixel to the right. Maybe 2 pixels. There is a ghost of most letters. Also, the ghosting appears to be red on the left and then white on the right. Take a close look and tell me what you see.

[MadChemst]

UMR,

I have a question regarding "convergence" or the digital equivelant. As you know, we've been able to attain 1:1 mapping in the horizontal but not in the vertical. I am beginning to wonder if it is because a panel is 1 pixel to the left or right. Even with near 1:1 settings, if you examine text on the screen, on most given letters, there will be a slight reddish bloom that bleeds from the left side of the text and on the right side, you can see ever so faintly, a "clear" duplicate of the letter just 1 pixel or so over and it will overlap most of the original letter. Here is a link to an image describing what I am talking about.

Take special note of the "l" in "pixel" on the right and the "b" in be on the left.


http://free.one.picturehost.co.uk/Picture%204.jpg


I know the quality isn't the best but I will email you the original if you like. We're all pulling our hair out with this.

Thanks again,

Josh.

(This message was carbon copied from UMR's tweak thread.) I wanted to make sure he saw it.

[spydyr]

Your link to the .inf file isn't working. Please fix.

[Datalux]

Even with near 1:1 settings, if you examine text on the screen, on most given letters, there will be a slight reddish bloom that bleeds from the left side of the text and on the right side, you can see ever so faintly, a "clear" duplicate of the letter just 1 pixel or so over and it will overlap most of the original letter.

Here is mine....

edit: I don't seem to be seeing what you are with my settings