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01-09-05, 02:47 PM
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Great Hobby!
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Samsung 2005 DLP HDTV Discussion --- HLRxxxxW Models
Now that CES 2005 is wrapping up, I thought I would start a thread to discuss the new 2005 Samsung HDTV DLP's. I did not attend the show, but summarized my notes from press releases and the comments of other AVSforum members (thanks, to all).
==================================================== PLEASE NOTE: This post is being maintained and updated as new information is discovered about the 2005 Samsung DLP product line!!! ==================================================== 2005 SAMSUNG DLP HDTV For Offical Samsung 2005 CES Press Releases: CLICK HERE For Offical Samsung 2005 HES Press Releases: CLICK HERE For Offical SamsungUSA.com DLP Product Information: CLICK HERE What we think we KNOW so far: ==================================================== PLEASE NOTE: This information is subject to change as we learn more and Samsung develops these products. I think Donald Rumsfeld summed it up best in the following quote. The Unknown As we know, There are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know There are known unknowns. That is to say We know there are some things We do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, The ones we don't know We don't know. Donald Rumsfeld — Feb 12, 2002, Department of Defense Briefing ==================================================== HiRes Gallery ... Thanks TetsujinWave & Daphoid!!! If you are NEW to this thread or the 2005 Samsung DLP product line, you may want to read the spec's and understand the many models offered before browsing this gallery. The 2005 models and their spec's are described in detail in the sections that follow this gallery. Special thanks to TetsujinWave and Daphoid!!! TetsujinWave attended CES and supplied all of the photos in this gallery. Daphoid provided the web server, software and programming expertise to create the gallery. For the Full High Resolution Gallery: CLICK HERE!!!  << 6168 Sample *** 1080P Models (1920x1080 Screen Resolution) *** ================================= There will be TWO cosmetic versions of the tabletop models. One version, the 78 series, will have a black lacquer bezel and will be sold by higher-end retailers and custom installers. The other version, the 68 series, will have a floating screen design and is believed to be targeted at larger chain stores like BestBuy. The internals of both lines are equivalent, the case (and offered screen sizes) is the only difference. In fact, Samsung has lead us to believe that the internal components on the 68 series, 78 series, and the 88 series pedestal model are all based on the same technology.  <<>>  Photos by TetsujinWave TABLETOP MODEL >>> HLRxx78W --- 78 Series --- Black Lacquer Screen Design HLRxx78W Series Brochure: CLICK HERE 71" -- HLR7178W (October 2005, MSRP guess $6,799) Spec Sheet 61" -- HLR6178W (July 2005, MSRP guess $4,799) Spec Sheet 56" -- HLR5678W (July 2005, MSRP guess $4,499) Spec Sheet 50" -- HLR5078W (July 2005, MSRP guess $3,999) Spec Sheet PLEASE NOTE - 71" HLR7178W replaces previously listed HLR7078W, the HLR7078W will not be produced. I will leave the photos of the 70" below because they should approximate the 71". HLR7178W NOTE - The screen on the 71" set is a more reflective than used on all of the other Samsung DLP models ... it is similar to the screen on the 70" Qualia 006.
Measurements: Thanks Kirk@TVauthority!!!
50" -- HLR5078W -- Photo #1 -- Photo #2 -- Photo #3 -- Photo #4 -- Placecard 56" -- HLR5678W -- Photo #1 -- Photo #2 -- Photo #3 -- Placecard 61" -- HLR6178W -- Photo #1 70" -- HLR7078W -- Photo #1 -- Photo #2 -- Photo #3 -- Photo #4 -- Photo #5 70" -- HLR7078W -- Photo #6 -- Photo #7 -- Photo #8 -- Photo #9 -- Photo#10 70" -- HLR7078W -- Photo#11 -- Photo#12 -- Photo#13 -- Placecard -- Poster Rear Inputs --- CLICK HERE Background: 1080p vs 720p Comparison -- Series 78 Poster -- Technical Discussion, Screen Shots, Photos Background: TI DLP Brochure for Winter 2005 -- TI DLP Presentation  <<>> Photo by TetsujinWave, KyungKim TABLETOP MODEL >>> HLRxx68W --- 68 Series --- Floating Screen Design HLRxx68W Series Brochure: CLICK HERE 67" -- HLR6768W (July 2005, MSRP $6,199) Spec Sheet 61" -- HLR6168W (July 2005, MSRP $4,799) Spec Sheet 56" -- HLR5668W (July 2005, MSRP $4,499) Spec Sheet
Measurements: Thanks Kirk@TVauthority!!!
56" -- HLR5668W -- Photo #1 (Good For Depth, Shape) -- Photo #2 -- Photo #3 56" -- HLR5668W -- Placecard 61" -- HLR6168W -- Photo #1 -- Photo #2 -- Photo #3 -- Photo #4 -- Photo #5 61" -- HLR6168W -- Photo #6 -- Photo #7 -- Photo #8 -- Photo #9 (Shows Stabilization Base) 61" -- HLR6168W -- Photo#10 -- Placecard 67" -- HLR6768W -- Photo #1 -- Photo #2 -- Placecard Rear Inputs --- CLICK HERE Background: Floating Screen Close-up -- Series 68 Poster Photos of Internal Components: CLICK HERE Video: VIDEO (Warning: C/Net's Price and CableCard Comments are in ERROR) High Resolution PHOTO (1.25 MB, Excellent): HiRes Photo / LowRes Preview Photo  Photo by Samsung PEDESTAL MODEL >>> 88 Series 56" -- HLR5688W (July 2005, $5,199) Spec Sheet
HLR5688W OWNERS MANUAL: CLICK HERE Online OWNERS MANUAL: CLICK HERE Measurements: HL-R5688W, 58.7 x 21.9 x 58.4 Measurements: of the CURRENT HLP5685, 58.7"(W) x 58.3"(H) x 21.9"(D) 88 Series Photos --- Pedestal Screen Design --- Click on Link 56" -- HLR5688W (Photo appears to be of 50" model) -- Photo #1 -- Photo #2 High Resolution PHOTO (1.25 MB, Excellent): HiRes Photo / LowRes Preview Photo *** 720P Models (1280x720 Screen Resolution) *** ================================ PLEASE NOTE: The three 2005 Samsung 720p product lines (HLRxx67W, HLRxx77W, HLRxx87W) are currently released and shipping. You can go down to your favorite store and carefully evaluate each of these models. When you go down to take a closer look at the HLRxxxxW models, you may find HLPxxxxW models still on sale. These are units from the 2004 Samsung 720p product line. They can be identified by the P in the model number, HLP5063W for example. 2005 models will begin with HLR. Costco is also selling a couple of models that begin with HLN. These are 2003 models that are still being produced and sold through this discount chain.  Photo by TetsujinWave TABLETOP MODELS >>> HLRxx67W --- 67 Series --- Floating Screen Design DLP Product Descriptions on Samsung.com: CLICK HERE AVSforum HLRxx67W OWNERS THREAD: CLICK HERE 61" -- HLR6167W (April 2005-Revised to first week in May, $3,799) Preliminary Spec Sheet 56" -- HLR5667W (April 2005-Revised to first week in May, $3,499) Preliminary Spec Sheet 50" -- HLR5067W (April 2005-Revised to first week in May, $2,999) Preliminary Spec Sheet 46" -- HLR4667W (April 2005-Revised to first week in May, $2,699) Preliminary Spec Sheet 42" -- HLR4266W (Mid May 2005, $2,499) SamsungUSA.com HLR4266W has 4 specs which are different from the rest of the 67 series: 1. Does NOT have the super fine screen. 2. Does NOT have the PC/VGA input. 3. Does NOT have the 1394 inputs. 4. Does NOT have the electronic program guide support on the CableCard.
HLRxx67W Owners Manual: Owners Manual HLR4266W Owners Manual: Owners Manual HLRxx67W Quick Reference Guide: Quick Reference Guide 67 Series Photos --- Click on Link (Also, see photos under 68 Series above - same case) 46" -- HLR4667W -- Photo #1 -- Photo #2 -- Placecard 50" -- HLR5067W -- Photo #1 -- Placecard 56" -- HLR5667W -- Photo #1 BACK & INTERNAL COMPONENTS - 50" - HLR5067W - Photos #1 - #8 - NOTE: There are 8 PHOTOS in the SERIES High Resolution PHOTO (1.25 MB, Excellent): HiRes Photo / LowRes Preview: LowRes Photo  Photo by Samsung THIN BEZEL TABLETOP MODEL >>> HLRxx77W --- 77 Series --- Thin Bezel Design DLP Product Descriptions on Samsung.com: CLICK HERE 56" -- HLR5677W (Now Available, $3,499) 46" -- HLR4677W (Now Available, $2,899) 8/9/2005 - Model Discontinued The HLRxx77W models are based on the HLPxx74W models introduced in November 2004. There has been extensive discussion and evaluation of these model in this forum. For specific information, please refer to the HLPxx74W Owners thread. The HLRxx77W are identical to the HLPx74W, except the DVI and PC/VGA inputs of the HLPxx74W have been deleted on the HLRxx77W. In addition an ATSC over-the-air digital tuner (can receive HD) and CableCard tuner have been ADDED to the HLRxx77W series. For further information, please check the Samsung web site (CLICK HERE).
 Photo by Samsung PEDESTAL MODEL >>> 87 Series DLP Product Descriptions on Samsung.com: CLICK HERE AVSforum HLRxx87W OWNERS THREAD: CLICK HERE 56" -- HLR5687W (56", Unknown Release, $Unknown) [Little is known about this POSSIBLE model] 50" -- HLR5087W (50”, May 2005, $3,899) Spec Sheet
Measurements: HL-R5087W, 53.6 x 20.5 x 54.7 Measurements: of the CURRENT HLP5085W, 53.6"(W) x 54.7"(H) x 20.5"(D), Weight: 125.4 lbs. HLR5087W Technical Drawing: Technical Drawing HLRxx87W Owners Manual: Owners Manual 87 Series Photos --- Pedestal Screen Design --- Click on Link 50" -- HLR5087W -- Photo #1 -- Photo #2 High Resolution PHOTO (1.25 MB, Excellent): HiRes Photo Canada ONLY Models: The following HLRxx64W models are Canadian ONLY models. They are based on the cosmetics of the USA HLRxx67W series, but have different internal components and specs ... so you can look at the photos above in the HLRxx67W section (and in the HLRxx68W section) for an idea of what the cabinet looks like. In addition, the following 1080p units (specs same as USA versions described above) have been confirmed as being available in Canada. The status of the 56" and 67" 1080p models is currently unclear. 50" -- HLR5078W (August, $3999) 61" -- HLR6178W (August, $4799) 61" -- HLR6168W (August, $4799) 71" -- HLR7178W (August, $6999) It is currently believed that the HLRxx88W and HLRxx77W product lines will not be offered in Canada. TABLETOP MODELS >>> HLRxx64W --- 64 Series --- Floating Screen Design Samsung's Canadian Web Site DLP Area (includes spec's and pictures): CLICK HERE 42" -- HLR4264W (Released, $2499) 46" -- HLR4664W (Released, $2799) 50" -- HLR5064W (Released, $2999) 56" -- HLR 5664W (Unknown, $xxxx) The 56" is shown in the HLRxx64W manual, but we have not confirmed it's sale in Canada, yet. 61" -- HLR6164W (Released, $3799)
What we DON’T KNOW so far: 1. What computer resolutions are supported on the 68, 78, and 88 series sets on the HDMI input(1920x1080?)? Specifically, does it support 1080i or 1080p? 2. Will the internal ATSC tuner or CableCard tuner support the future 1080p broadcast format on the 1080p units? 3. What capabilities does the 1394 port have to support 1080p? Specifically, if the internal tuner can support broadcast 1080p/24, can this be output via the 1394 port? Could a 1080p signal be input via the 1394 port? 4. Will Samsung provide any method (USB port/PC, Memory Cards) for customers to apply firmware upgrades to the new 1080p HDTVs? There are two other manufacturers that currently provide this capability for their DLP sets. 5. On the 1080p sets, which inputs have DNIe turned on all of the time. On the HDMI inputs and other inputs (VGA/PC, 1394), is DNIe ON or OFF? Does selecting a specific device type with inputs that have DNIe on all of the time reduce the level of processing (selecting GAME on component, for example)? 6. Will 1080p sets support multichannel audio (5.1) on the HDMI inputs? 720p sets only support 2 channels and this prevents a multichannel pass through to a receiver. This is important to manage sync in some situations. Items We Would Like To Test, But Need To Wait Until HDTV's Are Released: 1. Do the remote control IR discrete codes work for ALL inputs? 2. Given the increased video processing demands of 1080p, what is the capability of the 68/78/88 series 1080p sets to handle computer/video gaming? Specifically, what is lag? 3. Given the increased video processing required in the 1080p units (68, 78, 88 Series), what steps has Samsung taken to insure that we don't see lip sync issues? Did anyone ask specifically about this concern? 4. Will 1080p be supported on the HDMI input on the 1080p models (68, 78, 88 series)? All of our information collected up to this point indicates that it won't, but it is an important item and many of us hope Samsung will find a way to include it in the final production sets. It should be checked when the sets are released. 5. How will SD broadcasts look on the 1080p sets? How will this compare to SD broadcasts on 720p sets? 6. How will standard DVD's look on the 1080p sets? How will standard DVD's look after being upshifted by the better upshifting DVD players in comparison to standard DVD on the 720p sets? Is there any advantage to the new 1080p sets when playing standard DVD's? 7. In selecting a DVD player, will you get a better quality picture if you send the 1080p HDTV a 480i digital feed and let the TV do all of the processing OR by using a upshifting DVD player to send a 1080i digital signal that is deinterlaced to 1080p? 8. When setting up a given input, such as HDMI or Component 1, does the processing associated with the input change when you select a different descriptive name for the input (such as GAME, DVD, HD STB, etc.)? 9. Can you get 1:1 pixel mapping of a computer input on the PC/VGA input (at 1920x1080)? On HDMI? If so, how exactly is it setup and what picture mode do you use? FAQ's: 1. What is the PQ on the new 1080p models?
The HLPxx74W will be updated to a HLRxx77W model that will have integrated ATSC tuner and CableCard support. Unfortunately, the HLRxx77W will not have the DVI and PC/VGA inputs of the HLPxx74W.
None of the 2005 models have a center channel speaker shelf.
In general, stepping up to 1080p will allow you view the HDTV from a closer minimum viewing distance than 720p. This will allow you to either move closer or step up to a larger monitor at your current viewing distance.
RELATED PRODUCTS: HD DVD PLAYERS: DVD-HD950 ($250, May 2005), DVD-HD840 ($199, March 2005), DVD-V9500 LINK: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=dvdhd950 PHOTO: DVD-HD950 AV RECEIVER: AV-R3000 – 7.1 Channel, All Digital Receiver ($4,999, May 2005) LINK: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...71#post4939571 LINK (includes photo): http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CESpr...HXreceiver.php PLASMA: HPR5072 – 50” Plasma HDTV (April 2005, $6,999) PHOTO http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/P...105_0000089656 CRT: 30" Thin Profile CRT http://ultimateavmag.com/news/010905ces/ CHANGES TO SPECS: 01-10-2005 11:00 AM - Removed reference to IEEE 1394 input / output from both the series 68 and series 88 specs 01-10-2005 11:00 AM - Added question about black lacquer cases to open questions area 01-10-2005 11:20 AM - Reduced the contrast ratio on the HLR5688W from 10,000:1 to 5,000:1 per Samsung press release - thanks administrator 01-10-2005 11:50 AM - Reduced the number of HDMI inputs on the HLR5087W from 2 to 1 per Samsung press release -thanks administrator 01-10-2005 12:07 PM - Added comment about some models being available in an all black lacquer case 01-10-2005 12:20 PM - Removed question about black lacquer cases, since it was answered by pjr - thanks pjr 01-10-2005 12:20 PM - Added a question covering whether 1080p can be sent to the 68/88 sets via HDMI 01-10-2005 12:20 PM - Added a question covering what computer resolutions are supported on the 1080p sets 01-10-2005 12:20 PM - Added question about computer gaming capabilities on the 68/88 series 01-10-2005 04:45 PM - Added comment about possible chip upgrade between 88 and 68 series 01-10-2005 07:50 PM - Added question about VGA / PC Connector 01-10-2005 11:11 PM - Added 78 series info and photos 01-10-2005 11:11 PM - Modified info on black lacquer case 01-10-2005 11:30 PM - Added VGA/PC input to all units 01-10-2005 11:41 PM - Added Photo Link HLR6168W 01-10-2005 11:50 PM - Added 67 series placecard 01-11-2005 09:30 AM - Added HLR6768W photo 01-11-2005 09:30 AM - Added addition info to video gaming question 01-11-2005 01:30 PM - Updated Info on 78 series and moved to top of 1080p section, added disclaimer about accuracy of information 01-11-2005 08:00 PM - Added TV Guide electronic program guide to all models 01-11-2005 08:20 PM - Added IEEE 1394 info in 1080p area, added new pictures 01-11-2005 09:00 PM - Closed out question about the future of HLPxx74W line; closed out question about additional models in 2005 01-12-2005 12:15 AM - Added open issue about center channel speaker shelf 01-12-2005 10:20 AM - Added several photos, fixed a broken link, text editing 01-12-2005 02:30 PM - Closed out question about HDMI digital video resolutions and posted answer in the closed issues area, plus added info to spec area for all 1080p units 01-12-2005 03:45 PM - Added 1080p vs 720p comparison photo 01-12-2005 11:45 PM - Closed open issue about center channel shelf - none of the 2005 models have one 01-13-2005 12:15 AM - Updated DLP chip info with our latest data 01-13-2005 12:30 AM - Updated text in observations area 01-13-2005 09:00 AM - Added "The Unknown" 01-13-2005 09:20 AM - Added audio differences question between 68 and 78 series 01-13-2005 09:27 AM - Added the MSRP for the 78 series question 01-13-2005 12:45 PM - Created FAQ's section, moved open issues up higher in document 01-13-2005 10:00 PM - Deleted HLR6778W entry, can't confirm that it was a real product 01-13-2005 10:15 PM - Added link to Gemstar TV Guide + Gold DEMO 01-13-2005 10:30 PM - Added a description of AnyNet to the spec's 01-13-2005 11:00 PM - Added HLPxx63W series measurements for comparison 01-13-2005 11:00 PM - Added CableCard open issue 01-14-2005 09:47 AM - Added 3 small photos to display within the post to help people quickly understand the difference between black lacquer and floating screen units 01-14-2005 11:00 AM - Updated IEEE 1394 data based on Kirk@TVauthority's excellent information 01-14-2005 12:05 PM - Added additional 70" series 78 photo 01-14-2005 04:30 PM - Updated status on 50", 70" 78 series; closed open issues on 50"/70" and 78 series MSRP 01-14-2005 07:45 PM - Added an additional comment to the FAQ section indicating that there will be not HDMI 1080p input 01-14-2005 11:00 PM - Closed out the two open issues on 1080p PQ, and DLP chips 01-14-2005 11:00 PM - Create new list of items we will want to test once production sets are released 01-14-2005 11:00 PM - Added viewing screen design issue to problems to check area 01-15-2005 07:40 PM - Added warning about errors in C/Net coverage on video 01-15-2005 11:00 PM - Added new 6168 and 7078 pictures 01-15-2005 11:20 PM - Revised layout and small placeholder photos 01-16-2005 10:00 AM - Updated layout and organized text better 01-17-2005 09:00 AM - Added first pedestal model photo - great photo 01-18-2005 01:15 PM - Added link to additional 1080p screen shots and technical info in series 78 section 01-18-2005 02:00 PM - Updated HDMI digital input specs to indicate that 1080p resolution will NOT be offered on 1080p series 68,78, 88 01-18-2005 02:00 PM - Added comments to 1080p input section 01-18-2005 02:10 PM - Change lead in comments on 68 and 78 series to indicate that the internals are the same on both the 68 and 78 series 01-18-2005 02:15 PM - Added a comment about HLPxx74W series production ending in March or April 01-18-2005 03:30 PM - Updated copy per suggestions --- if any other changes or corrections need to be made --- please PM me 01-18-2005 08:45 PM - Added HiRes photos, Samsung press release link 01-18-2005 09:15 PM - Added LoRes previews of HiRes photos 01-18-2005 09:15 PM - Raised guess price on HLR5078W 01-19-2005 10:00 PM - Added additional photos to 68, 67, 87, 88 series 01-19-2005 10:30 PM - New POST photos of 5087 and 5688, plus fixed link to administrators comments in FAQ #9 01-20-2005 04:50 PM - Added additional photos and placecards from gotHDTV 01-20-2005 06:00 PM - Added FAQ # 12 01-20-2005 06:15 PM - Added FAQ # 13 01-21-2005 10:00 AM - Removed stock Samsung photos from some screen sizes after determining the photos were not of those screen sizes 01-21-2005 05:30 PM - Replaced 6768 Photo #1 with a better version 01-22-2005 11:45 AM - Added PR $6,999 price note back in for 67" 68 series 01-22-2005 06:20 PM - Updated Photo #7 in 7078 with higher quality image 01-23-2005 05:45 PM - Added addition information to FAQ #13, including a viewing angle photo 01-25-2005 11:00 AM - Added Photo #8 to 7078 photo area 01-26-2005 03:25 PM - Added Photo #9 to 7078 photo area 01-26-2005 03:35 PM - Moved release date for 87/88 series to Apr 2005 01-30-2005 11:50 PM - Removed all white text from post, AVS white users can now use FAQs without a problem 01-31-2005 10:00 AM - Added photo #10, 70" 78 series 01-31-2005 11:20 AM - Added photo #11, 70" 78 series 01-31-2005 12:40 PM - Added photo #12, 70" 78 series 02-05-2005 10:30 PM - Replaced several 78 series photos with higher resolution versions 02-05-2005 10:40 PM - Added a new photo to 6168 photo section 02-05-2005 10:45 PM - Added a new photo to 7078 photo section 02-07-2005 06:00 PM - Added photo #8 to 6168 photo section 02-07-2005 06:15 PM - Added technical drawing links to the measurements sections of 67, 68, 78 series 02-08-2005 01:45 PM - Fixed HRLxxxxW typo ... now HLRxxxxW 02-08-2005 08:20 PM - Added Photo #9 in 6168 section 02-11-2005 10:15 AM - Added Photo #10 in 6168 section 02-11-2005 10:30 AM - Replaced Photo #4 in 7078 section with larger, clearer version 02-15-2005 02:15 PM - Added 1080p component video and 1080p tuner questions to open issues area 02-16-2005 12:50 PM - Confirmed xHD3 in HLR5688W, updated specs 02-16-2005 01:00 PM - Added TI DLP Brochure in Series 78 section 02-16-2005 02:00 PM - Added TI DLP Presentation in Series 78 section 02-17-2005 09:40 PM - Begin creating the HiRes photo area added 5078, 5678 02-20-2005 09:30 PM - Added 6168 HiRes sample, removed 6768 photo in from of FAQ's 02-22-2005 02:30 PM - Added the smudged screen issue resolution as item #14 in FAQ section 02-22-3005 02:35 PM - Added update about Samsung POSSIBLY not producing the Series 78 product line and going with the Series 68 line alone 02-22-2005 03:00 PM - Added the CableCard issue resolution as item #15 in the FAQ section 02-23-2005 07:00 PM - Added link to high resolution gallery 02-25-2005 10:45 AM - Revised Series 67 release dates to mid MAY 03-01-2005 06:33 PM - Removed TV Guide needs to be confirmed from Series 67, it has been confirmed 03-08-2005 10:00 AM - Added question about 1080p over 1394 to open issues area 03-10-2005 07:45 PM - Added photo of the back of a HLR4667W to 67 Series section 03-10-2005 07:45 PM - Added link to HLR4667W preliminary manual 03-11-2005 09:30 PM - Updated 67 manual link and description associated with BACK photos 03-11-2005 09:30 PM - Increased the number of S-Video and composite inputs on the 67 series to 3 each 03-18-2005 12:21 PM - Updated FAQ #9 to indicate the production of HLRxx77W 03-21-2005 10:30 PM - Add measurements for all units, added HLRxx67W final owners manual link, add FAQ #16 with all stand dimensions 03-24-2005 12:15 AM - Added HLR4266W to 67 series section ... this is a new 42" model 03-24-2005 12:15 AM - Added digital audio output (optical) to all NEW units with CableCard (not 77 series) 03-24-2005 12:30 AM - Added weight in lbs. for the 67 series units, data taken from owners manual 03-24-2005 12:45 AM - Added 77 series units to the 720p section 03-24-2005 12:45 AM - Changed the release dates for the 67 series to mid APRIL, changed the release date for the 87 series to mid APRIL 03-24-2005 08:00 AM - Corrected 77 series pricing 03-24-2005 08:10 AM - Added HLR4266W manual to 67 series area; also added weight to specs area 03-24-2005 08:30 AM - Added preliminary spec sheet links for 67 / 87 series 03-24-2005 09:00 AM - Added FAQ #17 covering chip technology updates 03-25-2005 03:30 PM - Noted in 67 series section that HLR4266W does not have CableCard or TV Guide 03-25-2005 06:30 PM - Removed HLR4266W CableCard and TV Guide statments, they are actually included with the unit 03-26-2005 10:30 AM - Removed the tentative comments from HLR5078W and HLR7078W models in the 78 series section - this is based on Samsung continuing include these models in dealer communications 03-26-2005 09:00 PM - Added more detail to 77 series specs 03-26-2005 11:45 PM - Removed "What we don't know" question about dimensions ... we have them now. Also, removed FAQ about dimensions. 04-02-2005 10:45 PM - Added FAQ #17, there will be no 1080p component video input on new 1080p units 04-02-2005 10:45 PM - Removed open question on 1080p component video input 04-02-2005 11:15 PM - Added HLR5688W preliminary manual to 88 series section ... this is the first 1080p manual 04-05-2005 02:45 PM - Clarified that 1920x1080 @ 60 Hz will be supported on the PC/VGA input on the 1080p models 04-07-2005 10:45 AM - Reset 67 series release date to mid May 04-08-2005 10:30 PM - Updated 67 Series contrast ratio to read up to 2500:1 04-08-2005 10:30 PM - Add link to Samsung HLRxx67W Series brochure ... excellent 04-09-2005 09:00 AM - Confirmed HD4 in HLRxx67W series 04-09-2005 10:00 AM - Added SamsungUSA.com link for HLR4266W 04-11-2005 10:30 PM - Added HLRxx87W owners manual to 87 series section 04-11-2005 10:30 PM - Added a possible new model HLR5687W to the 87 series section 04-11-2005 11:00 PM - Added FAQ #18 about video processing chips 04-19-2005 03:00 PM - Added comment to 67 CR spec indicating confusion over 2000:1 or 2500:1 --- RESET IT BACK TO 2500:1 04-25-2005 09:00 PM - Added HLRxx67W Quick Reference Guide 04-25-2005 09:30 PM - Added open issue / question about customer firmware updates to "What we don't know yet:" section. 04-29-2005 09:30 AM - Revised 5688 price and delivery date; Revised 5087 price and delivery date 04-29-2005 09:45 AM - Reviese 68 / 78 series pricing and delivery dates 04-29-2005 10:00 AM - Revised Cinema Smooth Generation Light Engine spec from gen 5 to gen 6 on 68/78 series 04-29-2005 10:15 AM - Added dynamic black comment to 68 / 78 / 88 series 04-29-2005 10:20 AM - Added HES press release to top of POST 04-29-2005 10:30 AM - Updated 88 / 87 series specs 04-29-2005 07:45 PM - Added Photo of rear inputs on 68 / 78 series 04-29-2005 11:00 PM - Added 7178, deleted 7078 model 04-29-2005 11:15 PM - Added comment to 1080p intro stating that the internal components of the 68, 78, 88 series are all equivalent 05-02-2005 10:00 PM - Removed text discussing possible non-production of 78 series ... we now know it will be released 05-02-2005 10:00 PM - Simplified PC support question under information that we don't know 05-03-2005 08:30 AM - Revised 67 series availability to first week in May 05-09-2005 10:00 AM - Created a separate 720p Owner's Thread 05-12-2005 09:24 AM - Revised 78 series pricing 05-13-2005 10:00 AM - No VGA/PC, 1394 on HLRxx87W 05-16-2005 11:50 AM - Added link to Samsung.com to 67 series area 05-24-2005 08:30 AM - Added reminder to check the HDMI input on 68, 78, 88 series for 1080p support 05-24-2005 09:45 AM - Updated HLR5688W availability to June 05-24-2005 07:20 PM - Added comment to top of 720p section indicating that all 2005 models are shipping and discussing 2003, 2004 models 05-24-2005 07:45 PM - Added links to SamsungUSA.com in the 77, 87 series areas 05-24-2005 08:00 PM - Added DLP Chip Operation area to each model line 05-24-2005 08:30 PM - Added links to 78 series spec sheets at the top of the 78 series area, excellent doc 05-24-2005 08:40 PM - Changed all 1080p contrast ratio specs to read 'up to 10,000:1' 05-24-2005 09:00 PM - Added brightness spec to 78 series section 05-24-2005 09:15 PM - Updated 78 series dimensions 05-24-2005 09:25 PM - Revised 68 series dimensions 05-24-2005 09:35 PM - Added lamp specs to series 78 section 05-25-2005 10:25 AM - Added brightness and lamp specs to 68 series section 05-26-2005 04:00 PM - Added standard TI chip descriptions in the form (.xx" xxxxp) format 05-26-2005 04:00 PM - Added DLP Chip Note to 87 series section describing the HD2++ 05-26-2005 07:45 PM - Confirmed 2500:1 contrast ratio on HLRxx87W 05-26-2005 08:30 PM - Added a link to owners thread in 87 series section 05-26-2005 08:45 PM - Added a link to owners thread in 67 series section 05-27-2005 01:00 AM - HLR4266W spec differences from HLRxx67W models are listed in the 67 series section 05-31-2005 08:30 AM - Confirmed HD2+ in 5087, closed out open issue about DLP chip in unit and updated text in 87 series area 06-01-2005 11:45 AM - Added brightness and lamps specs to the 67 series area 06-01-2005 12:00 PM - Added FAQ #18, instructions for removing the pedestal base from tabletop models 06-06-2005 11:30 AM - Added technical drawings for 67, 68, 78, 87 series, great for installation planning 06-11-2005 06:00 PM - Added two questions to the "tests we will want to make after systems are available" area. 06-14-2005 03:15 PM - Added 68 series spec sheets 06-14-2005 03:20 PM - Removed estimated from 6768 lamp spec, it will be using the 132/120 lamp 06-14-2005 03-25 PM - Updated 6768 brightness spec to 550 06-14-2005 03:45 PM - Added a question about DVD players (to upshift or not) to our items that we will want to test 06-15-2005 05:30 AM - Revised 68, 78 release dates to July 06-18-2005 12:45 AM - Added power consumption specs to all models. 06-19-2005 01:45 PM - Updated the HLR4266W specifications 06-20-2005 11:51 PM - Added Canadian Models ONLY section 06-22-2005 08:30 AM - Updated Canadian Models based on input from Canadian AVS member 06-23-2005 11:30 AM - Added FAQ #20, Cabling to connect HDTV to Personal Computer 06-24-2005 09:15 AM - Updated Canadian Specs 06-24-2005 04:00 PM - Added HLRxx78W series OWNERS MANUAL to 78 series section 06-24-2005 05:00 PM - Added HLR5688 online OWNERS MANUAL to 88 series section 06-24-2005 09:30 PM - Added HLR5688 pdf OWNERS MANUAL to 88 series section 06/25/2005 09:15 PM - Updated VGA/PC spec on HLRxx64W's 07/01/2005 12:15 PM - Updated HLR5688W due date to July 07/04/2005 10:45 AM - Added question #5 about DNIe to open questions 07/05/2005 10:45 AM - Added question #6 about multichannel HDMI audio to open questions 07/05/2005 12:15 PM - Added question #8 about input labels to the thing we want to test section 07/05/2005 01:00 PM - Added HLRxx68W owners manual to 68 series section 07/08/2005 03:00 PM - Added question #9 to items we want to test area, covers 1:1 pixel mapping from computer 07/11/2005 09:00 AM - Added 68 series brochure and created new measurements area for TV without base is 68 series area 07/11/2005 09:00 AM - Added 78 series brochure and created new measurements area for TV without base is 78 series area 07/14/2005 09:45 PM - Added a link to photos of internal components in 68 / 78 series. 07/15/2005 09:30 AM - Added 87 / 88 Spec Sheets 07/16/2005 12:30 AM - Created a separate 1080p Owner's Thread 08/09/2005 11:00 AM - Marked HLR4677W as discontinued 10/06/2005 11:00 AM - Updated HLR7178W release date 10/08/2005 01:45 PM - Updated HLR7178W screen & release date
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> Bill Last edited by UCSB; 10-10-05 at 05:32 PM.. |
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01-09-05, 03:00 PM
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#2 | Link |
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Well, let the debate begin on what chips are really being used in the various dlp sets. There was discussion early on about a page on the Carl Zeiss site that referenced a xHD4 chip. I was looking around there again today and there is a pdf file Zeiss that has a description of their DLP Optical Modules for Projection TV (last page on the right). The description is Best xHD3/xHD4, High Demand HD2/HD2+ and Cost-Effective HD3/HD4. The x chips are listed as 1080p, DVE, Smooth-Picture and Dynamic Black. It is apparent that there really is a xHD4/HD4 chip. What they consist of I have no idea.
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My DIY Stand Project Last edited by schaffer970; 01-16-05 at 05:54 PM.. |
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01-09-05, 03:25 PM
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Great Hobby!
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It does seem like there is a new 1080p chip that goes beyond the xHD3. The xHD3 was spec’d with a contrast ratio of 5000:1 and now the new models appear with a contrast ratio of 10,000:1. Plus TI had an additional year to make improvements. The 720p HD3 chips had contrast ratio’s of around 1,500:1. If someone at the show could report the contrast ratio’s on the new HLRxx67W series units, that would give us an idea if the HD3 had been upgraded / replaced. Below is a press release from Optoma, but basically it says they are using a new HD4 in their 720p units and it has contrast ratio of 2,500:1. I’ll bet the new Samsung DLP’s have a contrast ratio of 2,500:1 and are using the HD4. If there is new technology in the HD3 yielding an HD4, then certainly they had to integrate this new technology into the xHD3. This would give us something like a xHD4.
Another tip ... Samsung is assuring show attendees, that they are using the latest techology. =================== Optoma Showcases First Rear Projection HDTV Featuring the Latest HD4 DLP and DarkChip3 Technology from Texas Instruments First public display of new digital projection technology from Texas Instruments, the HD504 delivers an astounding 2500:1 contrast ratio and film quality HD image LAS VEGAS, CES, Jan. 6, 2005 – Optoma Technology, Inc. is raising the bar in the HDTV market by being the first company to introduce rear projection High Definition displays with the newest HD4™ DLP™ and DarkChip3™ technology from Texas Instruments. With the introduction of several pioneering solutions for home theater aficionados, including digital projectors, plasma and rear projection TVs, and video scalers, Optoma is sure to make a big splash at the show. Optoma is exhibiting at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas (January 6-9, 2005), at the Optoma booth located in the South Hall section 1, #20538. CES represents the first public technology demonstration of the latest HD4 DLP, DarkChip3, and SmoothPicture™ technology from Texas Instruments, delivering the world's finest HDTV projection images to date. The HD504 projects a superior 2500:1 contrast ratio with a native resolution of 720p for a film-quality HD image, on a non-reflective, fine-grade screen. The latest technology available from Texas Instruments achieves both higher brightness and deeper black levels by “filling in” the area where the digital micro mirror connects to its hinge – the so-called “dimple.” In addition the gap between the mirrors has been further reduced and the backing to the mirrors has become more light absorbent. The HD504 measures only 14.8-inches deep and weighs only 90 pounds.
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> Bill |
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01-09-05, 03:50 PM
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#4 | Link |
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Great Hobby!
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If someone at the show could take a close look at the image on the 50" 720p pedestal model and tell us if the unit has distinct pixels (like HD2+ models) or the wobulation effect like HD3 models of the past, it would be useful in understanding if the HD2+ is continuing in this model. If wobulation is present, then they have switched in a HD4.
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> Bill |
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01-09-05, 04:21 PM
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#6 | Link |
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Great Hobby!
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OK ... here is another photo ... what is going on? We seem to be getting photos of two different cosmetic versions. One with the monitor floating above the pedestal and the other with more of a single unit appearance. This is a 56" set.
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> Bill |
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01-09-05, 06:01 PM
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#17 | Link |
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They couldnt tell me the pc resolution on the 1080p set. You can tell from the photos that the resolution is higher on the 1080p, since all the materials appear smaller.
This brings us to point number one with these 1080p guys. No one could tell me if the new sets can take a 1080p signal from the outside. This isnt only a samsung problem. I asked at every mfg of 1080p tvs and all of them confirmed at least the on the digital side, they were cut off from taking a 1080p signal. Only hope is for the vga/rgb input on the samsung and panasonic. Neither of which could confirm whether or not the vga inputs were confined to a lower pc resolution. K |
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01-09-05, 06:08 PM
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#18 | Link | |
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Quote:
This is to bad as I was hoping for a 1080p DVI input and use as my primary computer monitor. This really SUCKS!!!!! I wonder if it has anything to do with the studios. I really hope not. GeoffQ |
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01-09-05, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
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01-09-05, 07:14 PM
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#22 | Link |
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Real 1080P?
I read a while back about the HD3 chip using "wobbling" to achieve 1080i. I was wondering if this is the case with the chips Samsung is putting in these sets (since we don't have a real name to call them yet) to achieve 1080p? Do the chips in these new units actually have enough mirrors to natively do 1920x1080? Sorry if this is redundant, just curious.
I understand there is a fundemental argument over which devices are "REAL" HD devices. Presonally, I'm fine with techniques like wobble as long as there is no perceivable difference. Or better put, if it can display 1080p (good luck finding a source until blu-ray and hd-dvd) and keep up with the big boys for cheaper, then right on. Cheers, -Brian |
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01-09-05, 07:55 PM
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#23 | Link |
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Great Hobby!
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Cokecan ... you bring up a good point. TI uses 960x1080 chips and each mirror handles two pixels. The topic has been extensively discussed since their introduction about a year ago (720p chips at the time). In the 720p arena, I think people thought that the picture produced was more film like without the screen door effect of prior DLP chips. But, some felt that this lead to a softer picture. For that reason, many perferred the 1280x720 HD2+ chip. Which generated a sharper image.
To bring that discussion up-to-date, I guess we would need to see if the current chips have made any progress in the sharpness and definition area.
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> Bill |
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01-09-05, 08:40 PM
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#24 | Link |
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Some more notes on pq here, good and bad.
The compter graphics display was very impressive, stable and not "flickery". No hints of the wobulation effect. These guys retain that very digital, dlp look. False contouring or clay facing was a bit noticeable up close. But at proper viewing distances, this really shouldnt be a problem. Sammie dlps have always been finicky with what you feed it. I think its gonna count triple with these 1080p's. The source for the demos was a shared voom feed, prob split about a 100 times. It wasnt the best and it really showed on these sets. Some of the artifcats i saw was the aformentioned false countouring and a bit of ringining. I'd imagine a hdmi source fed 1080i would look much better than what was on display. In fact, some of the other 1080p sammies shown in other areas of CES did look different if not a bit better than the rows in the main room. I mentioned this before, but blacks were very very impressive on the new sammies. Im very intrested in watching some dark material on this guy to really check out how it handles shadow detail. K |
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01-09-05, 08:51 PM
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01-09-05, 09:20 PM
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Richard, i belive you're right.
The hdmi dvi ports are more than capable of handling the badnwidth. But the sony rep said for the port to be "compliant with hdcp" they could not accept a resolution through those ports at anything greater than 1080i. I hope he is wrong and they can infact take in unecncrypted 1080p via hdmi. Didnt see this posted, but heres the placcard on the 56in model. K |
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01-09-05, 09:45 PM
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#28 | Link |
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H2O Engineer
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From what I have read the HDMI/DVI ports can just barely handle 1080p, they can easily handle 1080i (under what is called single link, double link can handle a much higher resolution). There is an article on Toms Hardware that discusses this in great detail with regard to video cards - but never comes out and says whether 1920x1080p really works all of the time. Link: http://graphics.tomshardware.com/gra...129/index.html
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My DIY Stand Project |
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01-09-05, 09:51 PM
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#29 | Link |
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Senior Member
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A little info about DVI
check out: graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041129/tft_connection-06.html (excerpt from the above articel)
Not bad reading.. The problems isn't that DVI can't handle it -- but most DVI is single link and not dual-link. Not sure what the HDMI spec says, but I'm off to read that next. Standard DVI tops out around 1920x1200, according to this article. -Brian Last edited by cokecan; 01-09-05 at 09:59 PM.. |
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01-09-05, 09:57 PM
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#30 | Link | |
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H2O Engineer
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HDMI is a superset of DVI so everything (video wise) DVI can do HDMI can do. Your right, its the single/dual link thing that limits the output. 1920x1080p is right on the edge of what single link can do.
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