Appleseed Ex Machina comparison PIX

Xylon · 03-11-08, 05:43 AM

Available also in HD DVD combo

Ok before moving on let us forget any comparison in PQ against Beowulf or Ratatouille for the moment. We have to give this disc a chance

I got the disc a week ago and quickly pop it in my PC for a quick PQ evaluation. Big mistake

Watching this about two feet away from my Dell2408WFP the first thing that I noticed is the minor aliasing happening in the picture. Not to mention some banding in the background and also in some closeup shots

Some artifacting and blocking during fast motion (Did I mention this is an action anime?) especially when Deunan and Brialeos are in Notre Dame. Overall the PQ lacks that 3D look and its soft, soft, soft

I really want to enjoy this movie so later that day I tried watching this on my 1080p Epson PJ at 120" (BTW all my viewing sets are Spyder calibrated) and although the issues are less noticeable its still distracting to me. Maybe using my 720p PJ will suffice? Its still there. I'm finally satisfied when I hook it up to my Samsung 40" LCD

Overall an upgrade in PQ over DVD but in some scenes just marginally. This is a botched transfer. Every CGI based animation I have seen is almost perfect, detailed and sharp. Very 3D looking. There is no reason that this transfer is not going to look like the others. The movie file size is 15.60 GB VC-1. Overall the files occupy 24 GB of the disc. Even if they raise the bit rate on this most of the PQ issues are entirely to be blamed on the transfer.

This will retail low enough to be a blind buy. The movie itself is satisfactory for anime fans (IMHO) and casual buyers that wants to see CGI animation with lots of action, mechs, babes and sci-fi stuff. This would have been a demo material in terms of PQ. This initial release is mediocre. Hoping for a remaster in the future.

Xylon · 03-11-08, 05:43 AM

Example of aliasing. This is taken from Wiki:

aliasing anti-aliasing

Aliasing shows a stairstepping effect on object boundaries instead of a straight line.

Xylon · 03-11-08, 05:44 AM

Underestimated the minimum bit rate for this movie. You still need to throw in more bits in there if you see your advanced codec having a hard time keeping up. Some scenes may hold up using the same bit rate but not this movie.

lgans316 · 03-11-08, 05:44 AM

Your new avatar sux like your HD-Lite

Xylon · 03-11-08, 05:44 AM

Xylon · 03-11-08, 05:44 AM

One of my favorite scenes in the movie

BTW the aliasing is on DVD too. Like I said botched transfer

Xylon · 03-11-08, 05:45 AM

We still get to see details not visible on DVD of course.

Thats it for now . . . .

price3 · 03-11-08, 09:39 AM

great work xylon, looks like a decent boost in quality to me.

lgans316 · 03-11-08, 10:17 AM

Looks haphazard. Not a great improvement. Thanks for saving my $.

ShagMan · 03-11-08, 10:26 AM

Thanks for the caps, looks like this movie has some probs... aliasing and SOFT. I'm cringing to think about seeing banding on a 120" screen too, that's gonna suck.

Having said all that, I am still purchasing this movie, they came through with a 5.1 jap mix and I LOVED the 2004 movie.

GamerGuyX · 03-11-08, 10:41 AM

Bleh... couldn't imagine buying the standard DVD version.

Donnie Eldridge · 03-11-08, 10:47 AM

Hit and miss....but I'll still pick this one up.

tsb · 03-11-08, 11:53 AM

any chance of some Japanese version caps?

Donnie Eldridge · 03-11-08, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsb

any chance of some Japanese version caps?

What is the cost difference out of curiosity?

Blasst · 03-11-08, 01:17 PM

Donnie,

Its a substantial difference!

You have to scroll down to Description where it tells you it includes the HD DVD version.

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=PCBE-52671

sharkcohen · 03-11-08, 01:25 PM

I'm pleased with these screenshots and I'm looking forward to getting this release.

Dracore · 03-11-08, 01:26 PM

i hope somebody from WB is reading this. I can't believe they tried to pass off something this mediocre to the consumers. Do they think we're stupid??!

Nosferax · 03-11-08, 01:36 PM

Holy hell... $95.47 (excluding shipping)... I think i'll satisfy myself with the NA release. For the price, it's starting to look better and better.

sharkcohen · 03-11-08, 01:36 PM

I think it's premature to blame Warner until we see some screencap comparisons between the Warner release and the Japan HD DVD release. My money is on the source as the fault. Do we know that this film was rendered at 1080 or higher?

Xylon · 03-11-08, 05:27 PM

MySassyGirl · 03-11-08, 07:36 PM

I do see improvement..but not substantial. Come on...anime on SD-DVD was good enough...but defintely the HD is worth the money.

It's obvious that I'll take the HD over SD-DVD quality LOL....

Kris Deering · 03-11-08, 08:25 PM

This is an interesting thread. This animation style is soft to begin with (see Innocence for a great example) but there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in detail in this screen shots for the most part. Sure some of the smoke looks the same, but the difference in fine detail is HUGE.

I complained a lot about the line twitter in the presentation and there is some banding (though the level of banding you see has almost as much to do with your display at times) but given the animation style I wouldn't call this a "soft" or "DVD like" transfer at all. Some animation lends itself a lot more to HD than others. The fine detail in this release benefited a lot from the HD presentation and I think that is blatantly obvious in these screen caps.

Faceless Rebel · 03-11-08, 08:35 PM

Innocence was razor sharp. I don't know what you are referring to about soft animation styles WRT Innocence.

Djoel · 03-11-08, 08:41 PM

Is this CGi ?

It doesn't look it, if it is...

DJoel

paku · 03-11-08, 09:11 PM

Aliasing in the first pic is probably due to upscaling. None of the other caps look that bad so maybe it was just that one scene (it doesn't happen to zoom in on the background at that point, does it?).

The aliasing in the fourth pic however looks more render related, owing to the low-budget animation, and not a transfer issue.

sharkcohen · 03-11-08, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djoel

Is this CGi ?

It doesn't look it, if it is...

DJoel

I think that was the intention. Yes, it is CGI.

sharkcohen · 03-11-08, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xylon

One of my favorite scene in the movie

That's now my desktop background at work, thanks

Djoel · 03-11-08, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharkcohen

I think that was the intention. Yes, it is CGI.

Cool

Thanks

D.

Xylon · 03-11-08, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blasst

I meant to ask you, if you could cap this shot here:

There is so much more detail in this shot, more than what my screenshot shows.
The white trim on the top of his uniform has very detailed patterns that do not show up at all in my shots, along with everywhere else.

You should try and match the color timings and brightness/contrast of my digital caps against your viewing set.

You see that indented text on Briarios forehead? That should be visible when paused.

Blasst · 03-11-08, 11:08 PM

Xylon,

That indented text is VERY visible when I pause...... the camera introduces the glare, plus other issues, and I couldn't find a way to correct it. Looking at the paused scene on my set is head and shoulders above the screen shot.

That my friend, is why I wanted to you do a screen cap to show there is additional detail everywhere.

How about some caps of the hot babes in Appleseed Ex Machina?

03-11-08, 05:43 AM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
Xylon Lelouch is alive! AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Liecheinstein Posts: 6,578	*Appleseed Ex Machina comparison PIX* Part 1 Available also in HD DVD combo** Ok before moving on let us forget any comparison in PQ against Beowulf or Ratatouille for the moment. We have to give this disc a chance I got the disc a week ago and quickly pop it in my PC for a quick PQ evaluation. Big mistake Watching this about two feet away from my Dell2408WFP the first thing that I noticed is the minor aliasing happening in the picture. Not to mention some banding in the background and also in some closeup shots Some artifacting and blocking during fast motion (Did I mention this is an action anime?) especially when Deunan and Brialeos are in Notre Dame. Overall the PQ lacks that 3D look and its soft, soft, soft I really want to enjoy this movie so later that day I tried watching this on my 1080p Epson PJ at 120" (BTW all my viewing sets are Spyder calibrated) and although the issues are less noticeable its still distracting to me. Maybe using my 720p PJ will suffice? Its still there. I'm finally satisfied when I hook it up to my Samsung 40" LCD Overall an upgrade in PQ over DVD but in some scenes just marginally. This is a botched transfer. Every CGI based animation I have seen is almost perfect, detailed and sharp. Very 3D looking. There is no reason that this transfer is not going to look like the others. The movie file size is 15.60 GB VC-1. Overall the files occupy 24 GB of the disc. Even if they raise the bit rate on this most of the PQ issues are entirely to be blamed on the transfer. This will retail low enough to be a blind buy. The movie itself is satisfactory for anime fans (IMHO) and casual buyers that wants to see CGI animation with lots of action, mechs, babes and sci-fi stuff. This would have been a demo material in terms of PQ. This initial release is mediocre. Hoping for a remaster in the future. __________________ Project: Tandem 2.0 HTPC Worklog Project: Tandem 1.0 HTPC Worklog Last edited by Xylon; 04-05-08 at 07:56 AM..

03-11-08, 05:43 AM	#2 \| Link
Xylon Lelouch is alive! AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Liecheinstein Posts: 6,578	Example of aliasing. This is taken from Wiki: aliasing anti-aliasing Aliasing shows a stairstepping effect on object boundaries instead of a straight line. __________________ Project: Tandem 2.0 HTPC Worklog Project: Tandem 1.0 HTPC Worklog Last edited by Xylon; 03-11-08 at 07:17 AM..

03-11-08, 05:44 AM	#3 \| Link
Xylon Lelouch is alive! AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Liecheinstein Posts: 6,578	Underestimated the minimum bit rate for this movie. You still need to throw in more bits in there if you see your advanced codec having a hard time keeping up. Some scenes may hold up using the same bit rate but not this movie. __________________ Project: Tandem 2.0 HTPC Worklog Project: Tandem 1.0 HTPC Worklog Last edited by Xylon; 03-11-08 at 07:23 AM..

03-11-08, 05:44 AM	#4 \| Link
lgans316 Never Ever Warn-her Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bangalore India Posts: 6,379	Your new avatar sux like your HD-Lite __________________ Blu-ray : 213

03-11-08, 05:44 AM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
Xylon Lelouch is alive! AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Liecheinstein Posts: 6,578	__________________ Project: Tandem 2.0 HTPC Worklog Project: Tandem 1.0 HTPC Worklog Last edited by Xylon; 03-11-08 at 07:24 AM..

03-11-08, 05:44 AM	#6 \| Link
Xylon Lelouch is alive! AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Liecheinstein Posts: 6,578	One of my favorite scenes in the movie BTW the aliasing is on DVD too. Like I said botched transfer __________________ Project: Tandem 2.0 HTPC Worklog Project: Tandem 1.0 HTPC Worklog Last edited by Xylon; 03-12-08 at 06:32 AM..

03-11-08, 05:45 AM	#7 \| Link
Xylon Lelouch is alive! AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Liecheinstein Posts: 6,578	We still get to see details not visible on DVD of course. Thats it for now . . . . __________________ Project: Tandem 2.0 HTPC Worklog Project: Tandem 1.0 HTPC Worklog Last edited by Xylon; 03-11-08 at 07:32 AM..

03-11-08, 09:39 AM	#8 \| Link
price3 heh.. he said member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Clemson, SC Posts: 1,062 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	great work xylon, looks like a decent boost in quality to me.

03-11-08, 10:17 AM	#9 \| Link
lgans316 Never Ever Warn-her Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bangalore India Posts: 6,379	Looks haphazard. Not a great improvement. Thanks for saving my $. __________________ Blu-ray : 213

03-11-08, 10:26 AM	#10 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
ShagMan AVS Special Member AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 1,480 Classified Rating: 100% (7)	Thanks for the caps, looks like this movie has some probs... aliasing and SOFT. I'm cringing to think about seeing banding on a 120" screen too, that's gonna suck. Having said all that, I am still purchasing this movie, they came through with a 5.1 jap mix and I LOVED the 2004 movie. __________________ -Josh Murrah

03-11-08, 10:41 AM	#11 \| Link
GamerGuyX High-Def Obsessed Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Kentwood, Michigan Posts: 1,473	Bleh... couldn't imagine buying the standard DVD version.

03-11-08, 10:47 AM	#12 \| Link
Donnie Eldridge AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,936 Classified Rating: 100% (3)	Hit and miss....but I'll still pick this one up.

03-11-08, 11:53 AM	#13 \| Link
tsb AVS Special Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,882	any chance of some Japanese version caps? __________________ 1461 Days of Night A Dark Night Indeed. Ted Kennedy Receives Presidential Medal of Freedom.

03-11-08, 01:17 PM	#15 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
Blasst AVS Special Member AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: So.Cal Posts: 2,741 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	Donnie, Its a substantial difference! You have to scroll down to Description where it tells you it includes the HD DVD version. http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=PCBE-52671

03-11-08, 01:25 PM	#16 \| Link
sharkcohen screenshot scientist Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,322	I'm pleased with these screenshots and I'm looking forward to getting this release.

03-11-08, 01:26 PM	#17 \| Link
Dracore New Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 7	i hope somebody from WB is reading this. I can't believe they tried to pass off something this mediocre to the consumers. Do they think we're stupid??!

03-11-08, 01:36 PM	#18 \| Link
Nosferax AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Beauharnois, Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,613	Holy hell... $95.47 (excluding shipping)... I think i'll satisfy myself with the NA release. For the price, it's starting to look better and better. __________________ A boomerang is a lousy way to deliver a bomb - Wile E. Coyote Lacrimosae.com Fantastique, Horreur & Science-Fiction

03-11-08, 01:36 PM	#19 \| Link
sharkcohen screenshot scientist Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 5,322	I think it's premature to blame Warner until we see some screencap comparisons between the Warner release and the Japan HD DVD release. My money is on the source as the fault. Do we know that this film was rendered at 1080 or higher?

03-11-08, 05:27 PM	#20 \| Link
Xylon Lelouch is alive! AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Liecheinstein Posts: 6,578	__________________ Project: Tandem 2.0 HTPC Worklog Project: Tandem 1.0 HTPC Worklog

03-11-08, 07:36 PM	#21 \| Link
MySassyGirl Advanced Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 678	I do see improvement..but not substantial. Come on...anime on SD-DVD was good enough...but defintely the HD is worth the money. It's obvious that I'll take the HD over SD-DVD quality LOL....

03-11-08, 08:25 PM	#22 \| Link
Kris Deering Avid HD Watcher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Port Orchard, WA Posts: 5,388 Classified Rating: 100% (6)	This is an interesting thread. This animation style is soft to begin with (see Innocence for a great example) but there is a SIGNIFICANT difference in detail in this screen shots for the most part. Sure some of the smoke looks the same, but the difference in fine detail is HUGE. I complained a lot about the line twitter in the presentation and there is some banding (though the level of banding you see has almost as much to do with your display at times) but given the animation style I wouldn't call this a "soft" or "DVD like" transfer at all. Some animation lends itself a lot more to HD than others. The fine detail in this release benefited a lot from the HD presentation and I think that is blatantly obvious in these screen caps. __________________ Contributing Writer Home Theater Magazine "If it isn't in HD, I'm not buying it"

03-11-08, 08:35 PM	#23 \| Link
Faceless Rebel ALL HAIL BRITANNIA! Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Holy Empire of Britannia - Pacific Coast Area (Northwest Block) Posts: 1,141	Innocence was razor sharp. I don't know what you are referring to about soft animation styles WRT Innocence.

03-11-08, 08:41 PM	#24 \| Link
Djoel Perplexed Member AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 3,798 Classified Rating: 100% (16)	Is this CGi ? It doesn't look it, if it is... DJoel __________________ Since I've joined AVS I have become a well rounded argumentative person, and can now use a thousand and one CAR analogies in my debate tactics!

03-11-08, 09:11 PM	#25 \| Link
paku Advanced Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 815	Aliasing in the first pic is probably due to upscaling. None of the other caps look that bad so maybe it was just that one scene (it doesn't happen to zoom in on the background at that point, does it?). The aliasing in the fourth pic however looks more render related, owing to the low-budget animation, and not a transfer issue.

03-11-08, 11:08 PM	#30 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
Blasst AVS Special Member AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: So.Cal Posts: 2,741 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	Xylon, That indented text is VERY visible when I pause...... the camera introduces the glare, plus other issues, and I couldn't find a way to correct it. Looking at the paused scene on my set is head and shoulders above the screen shot. That my friend, is why I wanted to you do a screen cap to show there is additional detail everywhere. How about some caps of the hot babes in Appleseed Ex Machina?

Appleseed Ex Machina comparison *PIX*

Appleseed Ex Machina comparison PIX