Grex Advanced video stabilizer vs Video Filter

konfusion · 03-16-08, 07:13 AM

I'm trying to find the best video stablizer to record from my DirecTV HR21 DVR box to my Philips DVDR3575H/37. On some channels i get the cannot copy +VR mode on the dvd recorder. So i need a stablizer that can help me bypass the copywrite for recording HD or SD and get the best quality. I only need it for DVR to DVD. I dont need vhs to dvd or dvd to dvd. I need to use the S-Video for video and the Red/White for audio. Please let me know which will work best or if there is another one.

I was thinking the latest Grex
Advanced video stabilizer with high quality S-Video support
http://www.xdimax.com/grex/grex.html

or

Video Filter Latest One
http://home.cfl.rr.com/filter/

jjeff · 03-16-08, 09:53 AM

Here's a recent thread talking about filters. I think most people seem happy with the Grex, I have a older Sima CT-2 that is no longer made. It works great.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=990948
The link for the video filter in post 1 is no longer active. The correct link is:
http://home.roadrunner.com/~filter/

cyberfly502 · 03-16-08, 05:14 PM

I have the video filter. It works great. I have not encountered anything yet that it wont record.

There are plenty of threads on both stabilizers. I do not own the Grex, but the filter works great.

Rammitinski · 03-17-08, 05:47 PM

A few people here have said that the Grex's PQ is a little "soft" in comparison to the others.

The Video Filter is supposed to keep the widescreen flag, so I'd probably go with that, because none of the others will do that. (True or not, cyberfly502?)

I've never heard anything but good comments about the Video Filter here. (Also the DP5000, and ATX500, but no widescreen.)

Logic Design · 03-17-08, 07:31 PM

The Video Filter is also HD 1080i compatible if anyone is interested. That is, if you run a 1080i HD signal through it, it will switch to HD mode and send CGMS copy always command. I really have not seen the video quality of other units but the filter actually amplifies and buffers the video out signal using a high performance video multiplexer. I would challenge the video quality of the filter with any other similar device. As stated, it also provides Widescreen Signaling. The main difference in the way the filter alllows copying, is that it allows the user to set the CGMS flag as opposed to simply blanking the line. The same line that contains CGMS, has the widescreen embeded in it.

cyberfly502 · 03-17-08, 07:31 PM

The video filter can keep the widescreen flag. It is a setting on it. You can set the filter to insert it or not.

I will also be getting the DP5000 as a back-up. (I am picturing someday where all of these will disappear and I will be kicking myself for not picking one up when I had the chance.) I am already kicking myself for not getting the DP5000 sooner. I have had my eye on it since Christmas and watched the price go up $10.

If it is important to set the 16:9 flag then go with the video filter.

If you are just looking to record, I can vouch personally that the filter works. I have also never seen anything bad about the filter, or the DP5000.

westgate · 03-17-08, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rammitinski

A few people here have said that the Grex's PQ is a little "soft" in comparison to the others.

The Video Filter is supposed to keep the widescreen flag, so I'd probably go with that, because none of the others will do that. (True or not, cyberfly502?)

I've never heard anything but good comments about the Video Filter here. (Also the DP5000, and ATX500, but no widescreen.)

what ram said! i have a grex and a sima ct2 and the grex gives a softer and dimmer image.
i recommend grex only as last resort.

i dont know about the other 'enhancers'.

OUgrad1 · 09-24-08, 11:50 AM

Hey guys, I know this is an older thread but can I'm having issues with my ATT uverse putting Copyright messages when I try to record to DVD on my panny DMR es15 for even basic shows on ABC, NBC...etc. I was looking at this to bypass those messages, is this product, DP-x7000 any good or should I use the video filter suggested above? Thanks in advance!

http://www.world-import.com/dp-x7000...stabilizer.htm

Kelson · 09-24-08, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OUgrad1

Hey guys, I know this is an older thread but can I'm having issues with my ATT uverse putting Copyright messages when I try to record to DVD on my panny DMR es15 for even basic shows on ABC, NBC...etc. I was looking at this to bypass those messages, is this product, DP-x7000 any good or should I use the video filter suggested above? Thanks in advance!

http://www.world-import.com/dp-x7000...stabilizer.htm

Before you spend money on a filter, try recording to RAM first. If there is a true copy flag present and it is a copy-once flag to allow time-shifting then you will be able to only record that program to RAM on a Panasonic.

OUgrad1 · 09-24-08, 12:28 PM

I tried copying to the provided ram disc that came with the Panny but I still got the error. So given this, will a filter work for me? Sorry for the ignorance, I'm trying to educate myself on this stuff...thanks for the reply!!

Kelson · 09-24-08, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OUgrad1

I tried copying to the provided ram disc that came with the Panny but I still got the error. So given this, will a filter work for me? Sorry for the ignorance, I'm trying to educate myself on this stuff...thanks for the reply!!

OK, if the RAM disk doesn't work then it sounds like something is triggering a copy-never flag response. A video filter should clear up the problem. You say this happens even on the major networks (ABC, CBS, NBC)? Is it sporadic or is it a fairly regular occurance.

OUgrad1 · 09-24-08, 12:39 PM

I've noticed it last weekend when I was testing out other channels once I figured out that I could not record HBO. I check ABC and there was a college football game on that I could not record. It was weird because I could record college football on ESPN, which are both owned by Disney so I would think that for the same company, the same copyright policy would apply...that was sorta the last straw for me as I've always tried to abide by the rules. I've been only making copies so I could take them with me as I travel quite a bit for work.

Thanks again for your help and quick response. You don't happen to have an opinion on either of the aforementioned products do you? They both seem to work well, I would prefer the best PQ as possible as my top priority besides getting past the copy issue.

Rammitinski · 09-24-08, 02:00 PM

Like I said in an earlier post here, a few have said that the Grex's PQ is a little bit softer than the others. Either the DP-x7000 or the Video Filter should do. The Video Filter is supposed to have the ability to retain the widescreen flag (there is a link provided in the first post here).

(edit: wow - just checked - I didn't realize the VF was that expensive.)

joed32 · 09-25-08, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OUgrad1

Hey guys, I know this is an older thread but can I'm having issues with my ATT uverse putting Copyright messages when I try to record to DVD on my panny DMR es15 for even basic shows on ABC, NBC...etc. I was looking at this to bypass those messages, is this product, DP-x7000 any good or should I use the video filter suggested above? Thanks in advance!

http://www.world-import.com/dp-x7000...stabilizer.htm

Yes the 7000 is fine.

westgate · 09-25-08, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joed32

Yes the 7000 is fine.

why on earth does the 7k have audio ins/outs

?
totally unnecessary, imo.

joed32 · 09-26-08, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westgate

why on earth does the 7k have audio ins/outs

?
totally unnecessary, imo.

They're handy if you are using RCAs that have all 3 wires in one. If they weren't there you would have to peel the video wire off to plug into the filter with the audio wires bypassing it.

raincat · 09-26-08, 04:43 PM

Konfusion, have you tried dubbing from the DVR to the HDD on the Philips and then direct dubbing from the hard drive to the DVD? I had the same issue with the 3576 and this 2 step process worked well.

jim26 · 10-17-08, 04:25 PM

I just bought the DP-X7000 and hooked it up from my dvd player and the recorder.The picture quality is not as clear as i wanted it to be.There are green color bars in the background and i tried to adjust the picture settings on the unit but still there.Is it suppose to do that?I have been using a video converter (cmd-850) before this that is used to convert pal european tv signals into ntsc american tv signals when using a multi-region dvd player, or a pal vcr.As a benifit it bypasses the copy protection.Anyways,i hooked it up from my dvd player and dvd recorder and it does allow it to record 99 percent of the time.You loose a little bit of the color but not enought to really tell though.I want something that is made to by pass the recording stages.I think that the converter works better than the Dp-X7000.When i talked to the dealer that sold me the unit he says he never heard of it doing that and it may be defective.When i told him about the video converter he said it isn't suppose to do that.But it does.Does anyone have problems with their picture quality on the Dp-X7000?Do you see any green bars on your screen after hooking it up.Thanks for your input.

Rammitinski · 10-17-08, 04:48 PM

Yes, I see them faintly with my Sima against a black background.

Some people say they don't see anything, so I don't know if it's a consistency thing or what.

I'd probably just return it then if the other one works 99% of the time and you can live with or adjust the color fade.

jjeff · 10-17-08, 04:58 PM

I have 3 Sima CT-2s and haven't noticed any green bars, although they all slightly lighten the picture. The only time I really notice this is when I recorded some test patterns for checking contrast, the THX optimizer patterns that comes with some Pixar DVDs. I lost a few shades of gray.
Jim, are you using or does the DPX filter use S-video or just composite.

CitiBear · 10-17-08, 05:22 PM

The "Video Filter" is probably the best of the current options with its generally positive feedback, although its a tad pricey (worth it for the widescreen feature). The Grex has as many detractors as fans, ditto the World Import options. The Sima-based units do have a history of adding slight-to-moderate picture defects: it depends on your particular unit and what you think you can live with. After repeated failures with an array of expensive options, I ended up buying a second-hand Sima CT200 for $115 last year. It occasionally makes the image a little funky, but I'm willing to tolerate it for the filtering capability. One thing I can say for the Simas, nothing gets past them: they work every time against every CP scheme with every combination of source and recorder. I have been disappointed by other units, most notably the $500 DataVideo TBC-1000. The Simas may be slightly flawed but they're killer- if you get a decently functioning one at a reasonable price, they're golden.

jjeff · 10-17-08, 05:31 PM

Citibear, have you had an opportunity to try your Sima with BR? For example playing a BR disc and recording it SD to a DVDR. I agree it's never failed me but then again I don't have a BR player.

joed32 · 10-18-08, 09:11 AM

I have a CT200 and a DP5000 and a DPX7000 and I don't see any green bars in any of them. Will they let you return it?

CitiBear · 10-18-08, 11:22 AM

Sorry, jjeff, I don't have a BR player either so can't verify if the Simas are effective for that source. I would think they have as much chance of being effective as anything else out there, since SD recorders were never updated to be responsive to any newer analog protection schemes. The updated Blu-Ray CP specs are more targeted against digital-to-digital backup attempts with PCs.

jjeff · 10-18-08, 06:30 PM

You're probably right although it would be nice to get a real world conformation. I remember when getting the Simas they it said it would be good for any current or future CP schemes since it totally recreated the vertical interlace signal, or something to that effect.

civilsavage · 11-06-08, 01:21 PM

I just got DP-x7000 yesterday.

It seems to do all as advertised plus a couple other items that I wish it didn’t.

I don’t like what it has done to black levels. And although I have no "green bars" as the user stated above, The unit has added unwanted green to dark scenes. Normal and bright scenes seem ok or at least tolerable but I have to remember that my front projector shooting a 100" picture is not very forgiving.

Nonetheless I’m pleased that I can know backup my huge collection of animated children VHS's. It does great on those.

hermey · 12-07-08, 12:27 PM

I am trying to record widescreen (16:9). When I plug in the power to the Grex Full I do get a widescreen (16:9) display for about 3 seconds then it goes back to standard (4:3). It is obvious that the Grex Full DOES carry a 16:9 display but how do I get it to keep the 16:9 setting (both my cable box and DVD recorder are set to 16:9)? I tried all three Operational modes (1, 2 & 3 and the FW version is v72) but it still goes from the (16:9) display for about 3 seconds back to standard (4:3) diplay. Does the Grex Full support 16:9 (widescreen) recording?

Rammitinski · 12-07-08, 01:15 PM

If you're recording to DVD-RAM it should work, (it does for me with my Pannies and my Sima), but otherwise, the Grex will just letter box it in 4:3.

The Video Filter sounds like it might be the only one that will do it, but I'm not sure. Citibear could answer that better, I'm sure, since he has one.

hermey · 12-07-08, 01:49 PM

Thanks Rammitinski... I have an external Sony DVD recorder hooked to my STB. Not sure what you mean by "recording to DVD-RAM".

hermey

Rammitinski · 12-07-08, 02:44 PM

It's a disc format. No Sony's have ever used it, so forget about it. Looks like you're stuck with letterboxed widescreen using the Grex.

I think there may be some here that have "finagled" a widescreen picture out of it, between settings on the recorder and the TV's aspect ratio's, but I don't know how acceptable it really looks. You'll have to wait for some of them to see this and chime in.

I know just zooming it on the TV will work, but you do lose a lot of sharpness that way.

03-16-08, 07:13 AM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
konfusion Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 47	Grex Advanced video stabilizer vs Video Filter I'm trying to find the best video stablizer to record from my DirecTV HR21 DVR box to my Philips DVDR3575H/37. On some channels i get the cannot copy +VR mode on the dvd recorder. So i need a stablizer that can help me bypass the copywrite for recording HD or SD and get the best quality. I only need it for DVR to DVD. I dont need vhs to dvd or dvd to dvd. I need to use the S-Video for video and the Red/White for audio. Please let me know which will work best or if there is another one. I was thinking the latest Grex Advanced video stabilizer with high quality S-Video support http://www.xdimax.com/grex/grex.html or Video Filter Latest One http://home.cfl.rr.com/filter/

03-16-08, 09:53 AM	#2 \| Link
jjeff AVS Special Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Minneapolis MN Posts: 4,332	Here's a recent thread talking about filters. I think most people seem happy with the Grex, I have a older Sima CT-2 that is no longer made. It works great. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=990948 The link for the video filter in post 1 is no longer active. The correct link is: http://home.roadrunner.com/~filter/ Last edited by jjeff; 12-18-08 at 03:46 PM.. Reason: Added second link

03-17-08, 07:31 PM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
Logic Design Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 347	The Video Filter is also HD 1080i compatible if anyone is interested. That is, if you run a 1080i HD signal through it, it will switch to HD mode and send CGMS copy always command. I really have not seen the video quality of other units but the filter actually amplifies and buffers the video out signal using a high performance video multiplexer. I would challenge the video quality of the filter with any other similar device. As stated, it also provides Widescreen Signaling. The main difference in the way the filter alllows copying, is that it allows the user to set the CGMS flag as opposed to simply blanking the line. The same line that contains CGMS, has the widescreen embeded in it.

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OUgrad1 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31	I tried copying to the provided ram disc that came with the Panny but I still got the error. So given this, will a filter work for me? Sorry for the ignorance, I'm trying to educate myself on this stuff...thanks for the reply!!

12-07-08, 12:27 PM	#27 \| Link
hermey New Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 13	Does the Grex Full support 16:9 (widescreen) recording I am trying to record widescreen (16:9). When I plug in the power to the Grex Full I do get a widescreen (16:9) display for about 3 seconds then it goes back to standard (4:3). It is obvious that the Grex Full DOES carry a 16:9 display but how do I get it to keep the 16:9 setting (both my cable box and DVD recorder are set to 16:9)? I tried all three Operational modes (1, 2 & 3 and the FW version is v72) but it still goes from the (16:9) display for about 3 seconds back to standard (4:3) diplay. Does the Grex Full support 16:9 (widescreen) recording?

03-16-08, 05:14 PM	#3 \| Link
cyberfly502 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 24	I have the video filter. It works great. I have not encountered anything yet that it wont record. There are plenty of threads on both stabilizers. I do not own the Grex, but the filter works great.

03-17-08, 05:47 PM	#4 \| Link
Rammitinski AVS Addicted Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 13,440	A few people here have said that the Grex's PQ is a little "soft" in comparison to the others. The Video Filter is supposed to keep the widescreen flag, so I'd probably go with that, because none of the others will do that. (True or not, cyberfly502?) I've never heard anything but good comments about the Video Filter here. (Also the DP5000, and ATX500, but no widescreen.)

03-17-08, 07:31 PM	#6 \| Link
cyberfly502 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 24	The video filter can keep the widescreen flag. It is a setting on it. You can set the filter to insert it or not. I will also be getting the DP5000 as a back-up. (I am picturing someday where all of these will disappear and I will be kicking myself for not picking one up when I had the chance.) I am already kicking myself for not getting the DP5000 sooner. I have had my eye on it since Christmas and watched the price go up $10. If it is important to set the 16:9 flag then go with the video filter. If you are just looking to record, I can vouch personally that the filter works. I have also never seen anything bad about the filter, or the DP5000.

09-24-08, 11:50 AM	#8 \| Link
OUgrad1 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31	Hey guys, I know this is an older thread but can I'm having issues with my ATT uverse putting Copyright messages when I try to record to DVD on my panny DMR es15 for even basic shows on ABC, NBC...etc. I was looking at this to bypass those messages, is this product, DP-x7000 any good or should I use the video filter suggested above? Thanks in advance! http://www.world-import.com/dp-x7000...stabilizer.htm

09-24-08, 12:39 PM	#12 \| Link
OUgrad1 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 31	I've noticed it last weekend when I was testing out other channels once I figured out that I could not record HBO. I check ABC and there was a college football game on that I could not record. It was weird because I could record college football on ESPN, which are both owned by Disney so I would think that for the same company, the same copyright policy would apply...that was sorta the last straw for me as I've always tried to abide by the rules. I've been only making copies so I could take them with me as I travel quite a bit for work. Thanks again for your help and quick response. You don't happen to have an opinion on either of the aforementioned products do you? They both seem to work well, I would prefer the best PQ as possible as my top priority besides getting past the copy issue.

09-24-08, 02:00 PM	#13 \| Link
Rammitinski AVS Addicted Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 13,440	Like I said in an earlier post here, a few have said that the Grex's PQ is a little bit softer than the others. Either the DP-x7000 or the Video Filter should do. The Video Filter is supposed to have the ability to retain the widescreen flag (there is a link provided in the first post here). (edit: wow - just checked - I didn't realize the VF was that expensive.)

09-26-08, 04:43 PM	#17 \| Link
raincat New Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 6	Konfusion, have you tried dubbing from the DVR to the HDD on the Philips and then direct dubbing from the hard drive to the DVD? I had the same issue with the 3576 and this 2 step process worked well.

10-17-08, 04:25 PM	#18 \| Link
jim26 New Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1	I just bought the DP-X7000 and hooked it up from my dvd player and the recorder.The picture quality is not as clear as i wanted it to be.There are green color bars in the background and i tried to adjust the picture settings on the unit but still there.Is it suppose to do that?I have been using a video converter (cmd-850) before this that is used to convert pal european tv signals into ntsc american tv signals when using a multi-region dvd player, or a pal vcr.As a benifit it bypasses the copy protection.Anyways,i hooked it up from my dvd player and dvd recorder and it does allow it to record 99 percent of the time.You loose a little bit of the color but not enought to really tell though.I want something that is made to by pass the recording stages.I think that the converter works better than the Dp-X7000.When i talked to the dealer that sold me the unit he says he never heard of it doing that and it may be defective.When i told him about the video converter he said it isn't suppose to do that.But it does.Does anyone have problems with their picture quality on the Dp-X7000?Do you see any green bars on your screen after hooking it up.Thanks for your input.

10-17-08, 04:48 PM	#19 \| Link
Rammitinski AVS Addicted Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 13,440	Yes, I see them faintly with my Sima against a black background. Some people say they don't see anything, so I don't know if it's a consistency thing or what. I'd probably just return it then if the other one works 99% of the time and you can live with or adjust the color fade.

10-17-08, 04:58 PM	#20 \| Link
jjeff AVS Special Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Minneapolis MN Posts: 4,332	I have 3 Sima CT-2s and haven't noticed any green bars, although they all slightly lighten the picture. The only time I really notice this is when I recorded some test patterns for checking contrast, the THX optimizer patterns that comes with some Pixar DVDs. I lost a few shades of gray. Jim, are you using or does the DPX filter use S-video or just composite.

10-17-08, 05:22 PM	#21 \| Link
CitiBear AVS Special Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,502	The "Video Filter" is probably the best of the current options with its generally positive feedback, although its a tad pricey (worth it for the widescreen feature). The Grex has as many detractors as fans, ditto the World Import options. The Sima-based units do have a history of adding slight-to-moderate picture defects: it depends on your particular unit and what you think you can live with. After repeated failures with an array of expensive options, I ended up buying a second-hand Sima CT200 for $115 last year. It occasionally makes the image a little funky, but I'm willing to tolerate it for the filtering capability. One thing I can say for the Simas, nothing gets past them: they work every time against every CP scheme with every combination of source and recorder. I have been disappointed by other units, most notably the $500 DataVideo TBC-1000. The Simas may be slightly flawed but they're killer- if you get a decently functioning one at a reasonable price, they're golden.

10-17-08, 05:31 PM	#22 \| Link
jjeff AVS Special Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Minneapolis MN Posts: 4,332	Citibear, have you had an opportunity to try your Sima with BR? For example playing a BR disc and recording it SD to a DVDR. I agree it's never failed me but then again I don't have a BR player.

10-18-08, 09:11 AM	#23 \| Link
joed32 Advanced Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 860	I have a CT200 and a DP5000 and a DPX7000 and I don't see any green bars in any of them. Will they let you return it?

10-18-08, 11:22 AM	#24 \| Link
CitiBear AVS Special Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,502	Sorry, jjeff, I don't have a BR player either so can't verify if the Simas are effective for that source. I would think they have as much chance of being effective as anything else out there, since SD recorders were never updated to be responsive to any newer analog protection schemes. The updated Blu-Ray CP specs are more targeted against digital-to-digital backup attempts with PCs.

10-18-08, 06:30 PM	#25 \| Link
jjeff AVS Special Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Minneapolis MN Posts: 4,332	You're probably right although it would be nice to get a real world conformation. I remember when getting the Simas they it said it would be good for any current or future CP schemes since it totally recreated the vertical interlace signal, or something to that effect.

11-06-08, 01:21 PM	#26 \| Link
civilsavage Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 57	I just got DP-x7000 yesterday. It seems to do all as advertised plus a couple other items that I wish it didn’t. I don’t like what it has done to black levels. And although I have no "green bars" as the user stated above, The unit has added unwanted green to dark scenes. Normal and bright scenes seem ok or at least tolerable but I have to remember that my front projector shooting a 100" picture is not very forgiving. Nonetheless I’m pleased that I can know backup my huge collection of animated children VHS's. It does great on those.

12-07-08, 01:15 PM	#28 \| Link
Rammitinski AVS Addicted Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 13,440	If you're recording to DVD-RAM it should work, (it does for me with my Pannies and my Sima), but otherwise, the Grex will just letter box it in 4:3. The Video Filter sounds like it might be the only one that will do it, but I'm not sure. Citibear could answer that better, I'm sure, since he has one. Last edited by Rammitinski; 12-08-08 at 04:48 AM..

12-07-08, 01:49 PM	#29 \| Link
hermey New Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 13	Recording to DVD-RAM Thanks Rammitinski... I have an external Sony DVD recorder hooked to my STB. Not sure what you mean by "recording to DVD-RAM". hermey

12-07-08, 02:44 PM	#30 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
Rammitinski AVS Addicted Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 13,440	It's a disc format. No Sony's have ever used it, so forget about it. Looks like you're stuck with letterboxed widescreen using the Grex. I think there may be some here that have "finagled" a widescreen picture out of it, between settings on the recorder and the TV's aspect ratio's, but I don't know how acceptable it really looks. You'll have to wait for some of them to see this and chime in. I know just zooming it on the TV will work, but you do lose a lot of sharpness that way.