Kenwood KTC-HR200?

[derekjsmith]

Now shipping

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post14140229

[Carnivore]

I'm looking forward to this one too. I understand that it will support RDS on analog FM, unlike its Kenwood predecessors.

I hope it will also support tuning down to 87.7 so it can receive WNYZ (analog) in NYC, but I'm not holding my breath since all the rest of Kenwood's tuners start at 87.9.

Crutchfield has it in their most recent paper catalog mailer so it must be due out any time now.

[N1ZZN]

Originally Posted by Carnivore

I'm looking forward to this one too. I understand that it will support RDS on analog FM, unlike its Kenwood predecessors.

I really hope that is true. It's amazing that it's taken so long for someone to come out with a car tuner with both HD and RDS support. Almost every home HD Radio also has RDS. Hopefully someone can confirm that it has RDS soon, if so, I'll be one of the first to get one.

[ChrisW6ATV]

Originally Posted by Carnivore

I hope it will also support tuning down to 87.7 so it can receive WNYZ (analog) in NYC

You may be the same person who talked about tuning below 88 MHz and/or tuning in 0.1 MHz steps in another topic a while back; I am not sure.

I checked out that "87.7 FM" station, and I found out it is pretty much what we all could have suspected. Their license is for low-power analog television on TV channel 6, but they are transmitting audio-only, on or near the FM-audio frequency for channel 6, which is 87.75 MHz. I wonder how long they will be able to get away with it?

[ajmaniccia]

You can put the KTC-HR200 on back order now at Crutchfield. Price is $129 and it's expected in June, '08.

[Carnivore]

Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV

You may be the same person who talked about tuning below 88 MHz and/or tuning in 0.1 MHz steps in another topic a while back; I am not sure.

Yes, in the Sangean HDT-1X thread I praised that tuner for picking up 87.7. At the time that station was running a Russian music format which was quite fun to listen to even without my understanding the language. Now that it has flipped to a dance music format it continues to be one of the more interesting choices to be found on the NYC dial.

Originally Posted by ChrisW6ATV

I checked out that "87.7 FM" station, and I found out it is pretty much what we all could have suspected. Their license is for low-power analog television on TV channel 6, but they are transmitting audio-only, on or near the FM-audio frequency for channel 6, which is 87.75 MHz. I wonder how long they will be able to get away with it?

I've seen this discussed in other radio forums. The consensus among those familiar with FCC regulations is that despite its unconventional use of the frequency, the station is operating within the law. I admire their creativity as it has added an interesting new format to the radio dial here which beats the hell out of another junk shopping network or infommercial LPTV channel that nobody would watch. I believe there are also stations in Alaska and California using the CH6 frequency in the same way (although their formats are reportedly far less compelling), so the idea is not limited to NYC. Not all manufacturers program their tuners to go down to 87.7 though, Kenwood and Pioneer being two major exceptions. I'm still hoping Kenwood might have broken with tradition for their new HD tuner though...I guess we'll find out soon.

[derekjsmith]

Originally Posted by ajmaniccia

You can put the KTC-HR200 on back order now at Crutchfield. Price is $129 and it's expected in June, '08.

Thanks for the heads up. I will place one on backorder.

[derekjsmith]

Just got notification from Crutchfield the KTC-HR200 shipped today.

[Carnivore]

Great -- I look forward to your review Derek.

Do you have a satellite tuner box in your Kenwood system? I'd like to know if the HD tuner daisy chains with it OK. Apparently the new Sirius tuners (two-piece type) require a special cable to do the passthrough but I think the older type (i.e. - Directed's "Sirius Connect") might work fine with the normal bus cable.

[TravKoolBreeze]

The two piece Sirius tuner only needs a special cable from the tuner to the translator (KCA-SR50). Leaving the translator uses a traditional Kenwood cable.

[derekjsmith]

Originally Posted by Carnivore

I'm looking forward to this one too. I understand that it will support RDS on analog FM, unlike its Kenwood predecessors.

I hope it will also support tuning down to 87.7 so it can receive WNYZ (analog) in NYC, but I'm not holding my breath since all the rest of Kenwood's tuners start at 87.9.

Crutchfield has it in their most recent paper catalog mailer so it must be due out any time now.

Just got the HR200 in today, have not installed it yet. The manual says for FM the range is 87.5 - 107.9 I will double check it later this weekend when it gets installed.

The HR200 is little smaller than the HR100 I was hoping they would have gotten much smaller. It does not have a 5L/KAB pass through so it will need to be the last in a chain, mine will be connected to a BT200. No external power requirements just plug in to a 5L or KAB and the antenna so the install should be quick just finding room will be some work.

I will also be able to compare it to the HR100 in my other car.

[TravKoolBreeze]

Just on the information that there is no pass-through, it doesn't look like I can buy this version and will have to wait for one with a pass-through. It seems real foolish to exclude one.

[derekjsmith]

A quick follow up after spending a day with the HR200:

- it does have the FM range of 87.5 - 107.9 like the manual says
- no pass-through connector but was happy to be connected a BT200 at the end of a chain
- HD range, sensitivty and rejection are on par with the HR100 and are a bit better than the JVC HDR1
- you can save HD2 as presets just like the HR100
- one very major bug is the presets are not saved in memory when the power is turned off, so each time you power on you have to reset them

[N1ZZN]

Originally Posted by derekjsmith

- one very major bug is the presets are not saved in memory when the power is turned off, so each time you power on you have to reset them

Do you mean that every time you shut off the car, it loses the presets, or every time you physically disconnect the power from the unit?

Also, can you confirm that it has RDS on stations not using HD?

[derekjsmith]

Originally Posted by N1ZZN

Do you mean that every time you shut off the car, it loses the presets, or every time you physically disconnect the power from the unit?

Also, can you confirm that it has RDS on stations not using HD?

I mean you don't even need to shut the car off just turn the head unit off and the HR200 loses its presets, so yes a major bug I'm sure will get fixed with a firmware update.

Yes RDS on non-HD stations that use it. You also get RDS on stations that have HD before the HR200 locks in to HD mode.

[N1ZZN]

Originally Posted by derekjsmith

I mean you don't even need to shut the car off just turn the head unit off and the HR200 loses its presets, so yes a major bug I'm sure will get fixed with a firmware update.

Wow, that's a pretty major bug! I wonder if possibly just your unit has a bad battery inside or something? I'll be interested to see if anyone else's results are the same.

[derekjsmith]

Originally Posted by N1ZZN

Wow, that's a pretty major bug! I wonder if possibly just your unit has a bad battery inside or something? I'll be interested to see if anyone else's results are the same.

All of my other presets including the clock are fine. I did talk with Kenwood and they think it maybe because I have my HR200 chained off of the BT200 instead of direct but since the HR200 does not have a pass through you have no choice. They did ask me to try the HR200 direct and see if that is the problem.

[JCalin]

Originally Posted by derekjsmith

All of my other presets including the clock are fine. I did talk with Kenwood and they think it maybe because I have my HR200 chained off of the BT200 instead of direct but since the HR200 does not have a pass through you have no choice. They did ask me to try the HR200 direct and see if that is the problem.

This is my first time responding to something here at AVS. I just got the KTC-HR200 last Friday from Crutchfield and have the exact same problem.

I have it hooked up through the BT200 and the stations are lost even if you just turn the head unit on and off. All the other settings are fine it's just the KTC-HR200 that is the problem.

The person I talked to at Kenwood thought that I had a defective unit and told me to swap it out with a new one. So Crutchfield is sending another one and I'm just waiting for it to arrive. But I'm thinking that it might not help swapping them out. I haven't tried hooking it up directly to the radio to see if it still has the problem. Mainly because it takes a lot to get to the radio to even try that. So I would be very interested to see if derekjsmith hooks it up directly whether it still has the problem or if it works fine.

[derekjsmith]

Originally Posted by JCalin

This is my first time responding to something here at AVS. I just got the KTC-HR200 last Friday from Crutchfield and have the exact same problem.

I have it hooked up through the BT200 and the stations are lost even if you just turn the head unit on and off. All the other settings are fine it's just the KTC-HR200 that is the problem.

The person I talked to at Kenwood thought that I had a defective unit and told me to swap it out with a new one. So Crutchfield is sending another one and I'm just waiting for it to arrive. But I'm thinking that it might not help swapping them out. I haven't tried hooking it up directly to the radio to see if it still has the problem. Mainly because it takes a lot to get to the radio to even try that. So I would be very interested to see if derekjsmith hooks it up directly whether it still has the problem or if it works fine.

Let me know if replacing the HR200 makes a difference. Kenwood asked me to try the HR200 direct but I'm in the same boat in that pulling it all out is a lot of work and each time I do the factory bezel gets weaker even with the right tools, it was not designed to be removed a dozen times. This is my second 5120 head unit and forth install of this 5120.

[thor-1]

Just received and installed an HR-200 from Crutchfield tonight, connected directly to a KDC-X491 using the 5L cable, no other components chained together.

The unit has had no problems with maintaining its' presets with power off, even for digital sub channels.

The receiver interpreting white noise on a signal (mostly AM at night) as an RDS or HD stream and displaying the "WAITING" message is somewhat annoying. I will have to see if there is a workaround for that.

Other than that, sensitivity seems okay, and I have not had a chance to check selectivity.

[JCalin]

Originally Posted by derekjsmith

Let me know if replacing the HR200 makes a difference. Kenwood asked me to try the HR200 direct but I'm in the same boat in that pulling it all out is a lot of work and each time I do the factory bezel gets weaker even with the right tools, it was not designed to be removed a dozen times. This is my second 5120 head unit and forth install of this 5120.

I've had to pull my radio out several times also. The new HR200 should be arriving monday I'll let you know if this one works. I'm going to try hooking up the old one directly to the head unit since I'll already have everything pulled apart. It almost seems like it might not be getting enough power to the HR200 going through the BT200. If that was the case I don't know if a firmware update will help.

[hiteksystems]

Originally Posted by JCalin

I've had to pull my radio out several times also. The new HR200 should be arriving monday I'll let you know if this one works. I'm going to try hooking up the old one directly to the head unit since I'll already have everything pulled apart. It almost seems like it might not be getting enough power to the HR200 going through the BT200. If that was the case I don't know if a firmware update will help.

I have the same problem. I have the DDX512 head unit with KNA-G510 Nav, and the KCA-BT200 with the firmware update Ver. 1.4.0 everything was working fine for 2 weeks. I installed the KTC-HR200 tuner and I have the same problems all the presets are lost when I turn off the Ignition. The GPS, Head unit and Bluetooth setting stay intact. With the HD tuner my bluetooth seems to be functioning but when I make a call I can not hear from the speakers. I also notice that not sound comes out of the USB flash drive. After tinkering around for 5 hours today I gave up and removed the HD tuner and everything is working normal again. Since I'm using the 5L connector for the Nav unit. I can only use the KAB from the BT200 and the HD tuner. I allready emailed Kenwood but I problably wont hear from then for a week or so. Hopefully they will come up with a solution if not I will send the tuner back to crutchfield they give a 30 day money back gurantee. I just cant believe they would sell something that doest work as they advertise.

[thor-1]

I finally have had some time to try the HR-200 connected to my KDC-X491.

While it does not have any preset memory issues, it does have RDS problems.

The X491 has a single line display, unlike the DVD heads the rest of you are using, so the RDS data should be scrolling across the display's single line (up to 128 characters according to the manual).

You can choose to display station callsign only, or receive frequency, or clock, or song title / artist info.

Unfortunately, when you select TITLE, all you get is the station's slogan display (best oldies in the valley, or top 40, or whatever).

What you do not get, are the song titles that are actually being encoded in the next line of the RDS info. I have other RDS-capable radios to compare it with, so I can see what I am not getting.

I have tried all the menu options (scrolling / manual) and display choices with no luck.

And the other RDS bug is the receiver always looking for RDS data from EVERY station (AM & FM), and if it does not see any RDS data, it will display "WAITING" for a minute or two, then display "NO TEXT" for the remainder of however long you are tuned to that station. The display does not revert to clock or frequency, or anything else, it just says "NO TEXT". Forcing the receiver to analog or digital-only does not cure this, apparently the RDS cannot be disabled.

Having RDS is the main reason I purchased this unit, as there are only 2 HD stations active in the region, so that was not really worth bothering with. I just wanted to be able to view song titles & artist info like the deceased OEM car stereo could display.

Luckily this was a Crutchfield purchase, so I am not too worried about getting stuck with a bad unit. I just hope Kenwood will do a firmware update that will address the RDS problems for those of us with older or more inexpensive Kenwood "HD-READY" receivers.

[derekjsmith]

Originally Posted by derekjsmith

Let me know if replacing the HR200 makes a difference. Kenwood asked me to try the HR200 direct but I'm in the same boat in that pulling it all out is a lot of work and each time I do the factory bezel gets weaker even with the right tools, it was not designed to be removed a dozen times. This is my second 5120 head unit and forth install of this 5120.

Just removed the BT200 from the chain and now the presets are saved. So it has to do with the BT200 being in the chain before the HR200. I will call Kenwood on Monday and let them know what I found and report back what they say.

BTW, the other issues I have reported for the 5120 are:
- Nav audio needs an option to mute rear speakers.
- DVD needs to remember the dir listing unless the DVD has been removed

[derekjsmith]

Originally Posted by derekjsmith

Just removed the BT200 from the chain and now the presets are saved. So it has to do with the BT200 being in the chain before the HR200. I will call Kenwood on Monday and let them know what I found and report back what they say.

Well Kenwood phone support was not much help. They said my call from last week to report the initial problem has not been escalated yet. So I gave them the new information and told them I would be calling once a week until I got an answer.

[moore101]

I have the exact same issue, submitted online support request to Kenwood:

Subject: Preset memory problems and DNX7120 feature request
Body: Hello I have a DNX7120 headunit and BT200 Bluetooth module. I just installed the KTC-HR200 HD radio tuner and now after the car ignition is turned off for more than a few minutes the radio presets are lost. This problem only happens with the HR200 daisy-chained off the BT200 module. If the HR200 is connected direct to the head unit it works fine and saves the presets. Do you know if there will be a firmware update to fix this bug? Many others reporting the exact same issue here: (This thread URL, sorry I can't post URL's here yet).

DNX7120 safety related feature request: Even with the brightness and color turned all the way down on the radio and GPS screens it is still way too bright. This hurts the eyes of people sensitive to light at night and makes driving dangerous. In a future firmware update please allow the backlight brightness to dim about 50% darker than it can now. Feel free to contact me with any questions.

Thanks,
Loran

[ajmaniccia]

thor-1, I have the same setup as you (X491/HD200). I haven't installed the HD200 yet since, like you, song title/artist display is the main reason I want HD, and I saw the problems you were having.

I talked to "Josh" at Kenwood this morning, and he said it should work, and asked if you were selecting the right display option. Apparently you are, since in your post, you said you, "...tried all the [...] display choices with no luck.".

But just to double-check, here's what Josh said we should be doing:

Select "HD Radio" as Source.
Press "Display" for one second. "Display Select" will appear.
Push Control Knob left/right to display options, then select.

Is this what you were doing? If so, I'm pulling my X491 and sending it back to Crutchfield, along with the HD200, and replacing it with a Sony CDX-GT820IP HU with XT-100HD HD tuner (which has better specs and is $50 less than the HD200).

[thor-1]

Yes, I selected the display option correctly, it simply does not display the line of RDS info I want. I could care less about the station's slogan.

I am guessing that the subcarrier (I believe there are three possible on an analog FM signal) containing the song title / artist info is not one of the the subcarriers that can be displayed by the HD200 on my KDC-X491 radio.

I should really read up on the RDS format one of these days....

Anyway, I heard back from Crutchfield CS today, who says they spoke with Kenwood, and no firmware fixes are planned for this problem ("problem,....what problem?")

Crutchfield CS suggested I push the RESET button on the HD200, and if that does not "restore correct operation", I can exchange the HD200 for another one or refund it.

I really don't want to refund it, I just want it to work the way it is supposed to. Besides, I buried that HD200 behind the dash REAL good, getting at it to press RESET or remove & reinstall it will NOT be easy.

So to ajmaniccia, I ask you to at least try plugging your units together (don't go crazy mounting them like I did) and see if you have the same results that I have.

I have already ripped my dash apart a couple times, now I would appreciate some confirmation that I do not actually have a defective HD200, and so far, you are the only one that can do this.

Thanks in advance!

[ajmaniccia]

Thor-1, my HD200 appears to work as advertised with my X491.

1st off, I know next to nothing about HD Radio. Didn't look at the HD200 manual, just plugged it in and turned it on. Having said that;

I live in the Los Angeles area, so there are lots of HD stations to sample. The major stations displayed, in sequence, the station logo, song title/artist, "Hit's of the '70's" or whatever, and maybe the freq., I don't remember. I never had it just display Song Title/Artist, but I think I just couldn't find the option to have it display all the subcarriers in sequence, or just stay on one.

But the point is, it did display Song Title/Artist.

I only played with it for a few minutes, but every station seemed to display things a little differently, so I guess it's up to the station what they want to xmit. And some of the smaller stations just said "Waiting", then "No text" as you described earlier. I assume they weren't xmitting anything on their subcarriers. I forgot to mention in my previous post that that's what Josh at Kenwood thought was happening in your situation--there just wasn't anything to display, and the unit(s) were displaying the correct info. Maybe a call to the station manager of the two HD stations in your area could confirm this.

derekjsmith and hiteksystems, good luck getting a response from Kenwood by email. I've email them several times over the last year about the HD200 (and the previous model) and I've never received a reply.

[JCalin]

Originally Posted by derekjsmith

Just removed the BT200 from the chain and now the presets are saved. So it has to do with the BT200 being in the chain before the HR200. I will call Kenwood on Monday and let them know what I found and report back what they say.

I got the replacement KTC-HR200 from Crutchfield today. Plugged the new one in and the same result, it won't save the presets. They both work fine if they are connected directly to the head unit. I even tried changing the dip switches on the HR200 and BT200 and that didn't help any.

Talked with Kenwood earlier today and very few people have even gotten the HR200 so the guy I spoke with couldn't really help. He did mention that their planning on making a KAB splitter that might help down the road but they haven't even started making that yet. He's going to send my problem to their tech guys and sometime in the future there supposed to get back to me.

This is really frustrating, I can't believe that Kenwood wouldn't have thought to test the HR200 with the BT200 before releasing it. Well I still haven't decided whether I'm going to return it or wait and hope that they can fix it with a firmware update.