PS3 Firmware 2.3x - Master Thread [FIRMWARE TALK ONLY PLEASE]

[Frank Derks]

Great, a lossy lossless sound format.

[Hiredgoon]

Originally Posted by shabre

I am watching Queen live Montreal which is DTS HR 96/24
I have it set thru LPCM on the PS3 out to Onk 705... the Onk displays the 96 khz as does the PS3 for the decoding

Yoh, I have the Queen live in Montreal, its awesome eh?

Anyway, could the ps3 work with the DTS HD before this update? Or does this update make the DTS-HD work?

[WilliamG]

I can say that disabling the 5.1 PCM in the PS3 XMB does not give me 7.1 in Hairspray with my Onkyo 605. Yes, it SAYS 7.1 on my receiver display, but the two surrounds are silent.

[Ron Jones]

Originally Posted by Frank Derks

Great, a lossy lossless sound format.

It's not a loss of fidelity, since what channels you are hearing with HD-MA are lossless. It's just you are losing the rear two channels on a handful of BDs titles that are using a specific DTS HD-MA 7.1 mix.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by dabrit

Agreed, anyone who has heard DTS-HDMA bitstreamed vs PCM would agree that the bitstream just sounds better, yes it's louder but thats just not it, the clarity is better and the richness also, again it was the same thing when I selected PCM while watching a Dolby Digital movie when I switched over to bitstream the sound was better immediately. If they are both to be theoredically the same then why would one be louder/better than the other, it's supposed to be the same information. Except one copy is in an open envelope and one is in a briefcase( metorphorically speaking).

Priceless.

Originally Posted by Schlotkins

I agree with this 100%. If a month ago someone told me we would get ANY DTS MA before the new Sony players were out this summer, I would have said they were on glue. Now we have it and it works perfectly on 90%+ of the discs out there. In some cases, we are losing the rear two channels and everyone is saying Sony sucks. Um, did Sony ever promise DTS MA at all? No. Has Sony done an incredible job upgrading the AV side of the PS3? Yep. So, why don't you cut them just a little bit of slack.

I imagine Sony will upgrade the playback in an upcoming firmware. My guess is getting DTS MA on the PS3 is not as easy as people thing and that's why they are doing it in pieces (hence the 'limited') tag.

Chris

A voice of reason. Thank you.

Also a thanks to filmmixer and ronny k for helping us to understand the reason for this problem (the dts decoding).

Brandon

[sbalasu3s]

Originally Posted by WilliamG

I can say that disabling the 5.1 PCM in the PS3 XMB does not give me 7.1 in Hairspray with my Onkyo 605. Yes, it SAYS 7.1 on my receiver display, but the two surrounds are silent.

+1

[TRT]

Originally Posted by cougartrace

With the new firmware installed on my PS3. Is there any reason not keep the setting at LPCM on the PS3?

I have an Onkyo 605.

No. In fact, LPCM was the prefered choice prior to the firmware upgrade. If you are a tweeker, use one of the 500 DSP's most receivers/pre-pro's have to offer or Add THX post processing. Meridian or Denon. Mark Levinson or Integra. Bloggers will find fault in all products. The PS3 is currently more machine than any of us could have imagined a year ago for $600. My question to the forum is this: Should Sony build a universal player that does everything perfect and sell it for 20K? Will this make everyone happy? I'll answer the question: NO! If you openned the 20K machine chassis and the internal cables aren't made from a metallic substance found only on the sixth planet of The Hoth system, it will be considered sub-par. I say cut Sony some slack and accept the fact that we are getting our $600 worth and then some.

[krholmberg]

Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey

The rear surrounds on a couple movies seem to be ruining the whole thing for some people.
I think a little perspective is in order.

I agree, too!

[jpmst3]

Yeah, the voice of reason, finally. Some people need to get a life.

[MacFreibier]

Originally Posted by italiano

Check out the Yamaha RX-V663 (did a pricegrabber search and got it for much less than 500). It can handle LPCM 7.1, can matrix 5.1 to 7.1, and can decode all of the lossless codecs in case you decide in the future to get a player that bitstreams.

Can you really confirm that the RX-V663 will matrix 5.1 PCM signal to 7.1?

[jpco]

Originally Posted by vancouver

Man there are a lot of people showing bitterness in regards to the DTS MA update on the PS3. Honestly what percentage of peopel can can take advantage of DTS MA...then what percentage of people can actually take advantage of DTS MA in a 7.1 setup?!

If sony actually addresses the issues found I would be surprised and impressed that they invest time into such a small percentage of peopel. IMO the ONLY reason they should is if DTS dictates to Sony they must because the current version does not meet spec.


DTS MA for the PS3 is the BEST freebee I can ever remember getting.

It's not a freebee as far as I'm concerned because I don't own a PS3, and I'm still trying to decide which will be the best BD player for under $400 for me. DTS MA was a necessity for me to consider this player, so I'm very interested in the experiences here.

I'm sure there are others like me who want access to all audio codecs on all discs from major studios. Sony is not doing us a favor by providing this functionality. They are trying to solidify a format as a viable option for mainstream adopters. This firmware has made me consider PS3 in the near term. Try to understand that there are many of us who come here to gain complete information to inform our purchases. It's important to know what is and what is not working, however minor these issues may seem to you.

[Bugg77]

Originally Posted by jpco

It's not a freebee as far as I'm concerned because I don't own a PS3, and I'm still trying to decide which will be the best BD player for under $400 for me. DTS MA was a necessity for me to consider this player, so I'm very interested in the experiences here.

I'm sure there are others like me who want access to all audio codecs on all discs from major studios. Sony is not doing us a favor by providing this functionality. They are trying to solidify a format as a viable option for mainstream adopters. This firmware has made me consider PS3 in the near term. Try to understand that there are many of us who come here to gain complete information to inform our purchases. It's important to know what is and what is not working, however minor these issues may seem to you.

That is fine and many of us here do the same thing... just try to keep in mind that people love to whine when things go wrong but are silent when things are working.

Sony certainly did not owe us HD:MA decoding, but it was incredibly smart of them to provide it. It is a freebie to those of us who already own, but it (decoding of all lossless codecs) is also a major selling point to people who are shopping for a Blu-Ray player.

[adrian457]

This probably has been said before so if it has please disregard this.

IIRC, I believe this problem also happened with a couple of receivers as well that accept bitstreams of 7.1 DTS-HDMA on certain movies from capable players. The movies were Pan's Labyrinth and Shoot 'Em Up. The receiver wasn't flagging the inputs correctly and wasn't showing 7.1 on the display. Then someone had said that it was the way that the movies were encoded. That on certain DTS-HDMA 7.1 movies, they mixed it for having 2 sets of side surrounds and not any back surrounds. I believe Denon and Pioneer had fixed the problem and now their receivers are displaying properly. I can't really add much else as this is what I have read in the Denon and Pioneer forum.

I have a Yammy 1800 and it still shows 7.1 on the display even though the movies are 5.1 and suffered from the DTS-HDMA bomb, which I fixed using the Euro DSP firmware. People that use presence speakers on the Yammy, are not being able to use them for DTS-HDMA but matrixing the back surrounds still work. I'm patiently waiting for Yamaha to fix these problems.

There seems to be a lot of quirks with DTS-HD right now with every company and little by little the quirks are being fixed. I just hope that all the quirks are fixed for everyones sake as we all have invested well earned money into our systems. Nothing against DTS or DTS-HD as I believe the sound is outstanding, just pointing out a similar situation.

[Calamus]

Originally Posted by jpco

It's not a freebee as far as I'm concerned because I don't own a PS3, and I'm still trying to decide which will be the best BD player for under $400 for me. DTS MA was a necessity for me to consider this player, so I'm very interested in the experiences here.

I'm sure there are others like me who want access to all audio codecs on all discs from major studios. Sony is not doing us a favor by providing this functionality. They are trying to solidify a format as a viable option for mainstream adopters. This firmware has made me consider PS3 in the near term. Try to understand that there are many of us who come here to gain complete information to inform our purchases. It's important to know what is and what is not working, however minor these issues may seem to you.

Can I get my money back on my A30 then since this update didn't help it at all with DTS-HD-MA? Oh, wait it didn't come with DTS-HD-MA, kinda like the PS3????

[TRT]

Originally Posted by jpco

It's not a freebee as far as I'm concerned because I don't own a PS3, and I'm still trying to decide which will be the best BD player for under $400 for me. DTS MA was a necessity for me to consider this player, so I'm very interested in the experiences here.

I'm sure there are others like me who want access to all audio codecs on all discs from major studios. Sony is not doing us a favor by providing this functionality. They are trying to solidify a format as a viable option for mainstream adopters. This firmware has made me consider PS3 in the near term. Try to understand that there are many of us who come here to gain complete information to inform our purchases. It's important to know what is and what is not working, however minor these issues may seem to you.

The new Oppo 983 is the only DVD player to score a perfect score on the Secret's DVD testing. How long did that take? When did the first DVD player hit the market? You should wait until the perfect Blu-ray player is on the market before you buy. You'll be able to afford it because you will have 15 years to save for it. Sound and video RE-production! If a band played in your family room, we could blog for years about the acoustics in the room. Nothing is perfect and certainly nothing re-produced. Great audio and video are available NOW. Enjoy! If you are waiting for the first player built on the international space station from materials brought in from the six nearest galaxies, then you're just waiting.

[Bytre]

Originally Posted by Ron Jones

I read the statement to say:

For DVDs: the PS3 does not support playback (i.e., will not decode to LPCM output) of DTS-ES or DTS 96/24

For BDs: the PS3 does not support playback (i.e., will not decode to LPCM output) of DTS-ES Matrix

However, if you are using a bitstream output from the PS3 then these are not issues if your AVR can decode these DTS formats.

That's my reading and understanding of it as well.

[Frank Derks]

Great,
Sound from back channels bit without the indicator lighting up.
Now the indicators light up and no sound from the back channels.

Nearly there.

[Jay_Davis]

Originally Posted by wakashizuma

I have compared the PCM output versus bitstream for DD/DTS and they sound the same after level matching. I put my receiver to Pure Direct so no necessary processing can happen.

Yup, me too. They are IDENTICAL.

[Chris Rein]

I tried in two different cases to get a list going, and even suggested a dedicated thread on it, but got shot down.

Here's what I know....

Saw IV - Works fine
Shoot Em Up - Does not work as advertised
The Condemned - Does not work as advertised (and that is 7.1 DTS-HR)


I have Pan's Labyrinth and House of 1,000 Corpses to test here today as well.

Not sure what other 7.1 DTS (either HR or MA) tracks are out there, but would be happy to check if I can get the list (and have it in my library!).

[TRT]

I can't tell the difference. All of the new CODEC's sound great to me. I really don't understand exactly what people are looking for from the sound of a spaceship exploding. When the pieces start landing all around and the sound is authentic; What more can you ask for?

[TRT]

Originally Posted by TRT

I can't tell the difference. All of the new CODEC's sound great to me. I really don't understand exactly what people are looking for from the sound of a spaceship exploding. When the pieces start landing all around and the sound is authentic; What more can you ask for?

Perhaps the quality of one's system may be responsible for dissapointing performance.

[Jay_Davis]

Originally Posted by dabrit

Agreed, anyone who has heard DTS-HDMA bitstreamed vs PCM would agree that the bitstream just sounds better, yes it's louder but thats just not it, the clarity is better and the richness also, again it was the same thing when I selected PCM while watching a Dolby Digital movie when I switched over to bitstream the sound was better immediately. If they are both to be theoredically the same then why would one be louder/better than the other, it's supposed to be the same information. Except one copy is in an open envelope and one is in a briefcase( metorphorically speaking).

Obviously not "anyone". This is just fundamentally untrue.

First, with the PS3, you can only directly compare the standard codecs, not the lossless ones, so you can't be just "switching to bitstream" to compare the PS3 decoding of DTS-HD MA.

Second, with the standard codecs, if you have your setup configured properly and you have a receiver that fully supports PCM, there will be NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL between bitstream and PCM.

[jpco]

Originally Posted by Calamus

Can I get my money back on my A30 then since this update didn't help it at all with DTS-HD-MA? Oh, wait it didn't come with DTS-HD-MA, kinda like the PS3????

I'm sorry. I honestly don't understand what this means in regards to my posting.

[JayG30]

This is why there should be more standards. When you leave so many options, these sort of things become inevitable. It's of no surprise though. This is how the a/v world has always been. To many people trying to be the standard and therefore no one is the standard. I thought that this was why certain organizations existed such as THX. I mean we already deal with multiple aspect ratios that make it impossible to pick a desired screen size for your room. You pick a 100" diag. screen for 2.35 ratio movies and now you have to watch an 80" diag. screen for all your 1.78 ratio movies. I guess you better have multiple rows of seating for different ratios or be able to move your chairs closer to the screen. Nothing like making life hard on the consumer.

It's the same thing here. You have some studios wanting to mix 7.1 one way and others doing it a different way. Yea the AVR manufacturers can probably handle all this, but why should they have too. Why can't there just be a standard. Without standards it becomes very hard to move forward. I wonder why so many studios don't even bother with 7.1. After seeing all the different ways it can be mixed I don't think I'd want to deal with it either.

I know that was a pointless rant and many people might not agree with me. But that is how I see it and it makes me feel better to just get it out.

Oh and I have no problem with the PS3. It is an improvement because it gave us something that wasn't there before. If it doesn't work right 100% yet, it is still better than not having it. It sure would be funny if the new standalones come out and people have the same problems.

[jpco]

Originally Posted by TRT

The new Oppo 983 is the only DVD player to score a perfect score on the Secret's DVD testing. How long did that take? When did the first DVD player hit the market? You should wait until the perfect Blu-ray player is on the market before you buy. You'll be able to afford it because you will have 15 years to save for it. Sound and video RE-production! If a band played in your family room, we could blog for years about the acoustics in the room. Nothing is perfect and certainly nothing re-produced. Great audio and video are available NOW. Enjoy! If you are waiting for the first player built on the international space station from materials brought in from the six nearest galaxies, then you're just waiting.

You'll take this one? Wow. I guess there's something wrong with my posting that I'm interested in finding out all the strengths and weaknesses of the player after the 2.3 firmware update. Seems like a sensitive group.

Nowhere did I say the player needed to be perfect. However, I do see a number of discs coming out with DTS HD audio. Before taking the plunge, I need to know how things are functioning.

Just so you know, after reading through this whole thread, my current feelings are:

1. PS3 decodes DTS HD pretty much fine. I have a 5.1 setup, so I'm not too concerned about the 7.1 issues, but I do like being informed.

2. The settings for LPCM and bitstreaming are a little cumbersome. I'd prefer being able to have one setting for legacy codecs (bitstreaming) and one for advanced codecs (LPCM). I could live with the current setup, but it seems unnecessarily confusing.

3. The PS3 is the fastest-operating, smoothest-functioning, most-glitch-free, player out there, as well as being one of the least expensive.

I'm not waiting for or looking for perfection. I'm pretty much set on PS3. My biggest concern is around the bitsreaming vs. decoding issue and sound quality, but I doubt there'll be clear evidence favoring one over the other. Even with that, PS3 is clearly a great value. However, there's nothing wrong with sharing all experiences.

[x-evil-x]

the only thing i see different in the setup is dts
shounldnt it say dts-ma or hd?

also do i keep it in linear pcm and not change it to bitstream correct?

[grtwhtsk]

Please forgive my ignorance as I ask this question, but I feel even more lost after this latest PS3 update. Will the DTS-HD MA work through my Sony STR-KS2000 receiver? If so, what do I have to do on my end so that it works properly?

Can someone please help me out as my head is spinning trying to get a grasp on this? Thank you.

[TRT]

Originally Posted by JayG30

This is why there should be more standards. When you leave so many options, these sort of things become inevitable. It's of no surprise though. This is how the a/v world has always been. To many people trying to be the standard and therefore no one is the standard. I thought that this was why certain organizations existed such as THX. I mean we already deal with multiple aspect ratios that make it impossible to pick a desired screen size for your room. You pick a 100" diag. screen for 2.35 ratio movies and now you have to watch an 80" diag. screen for all your 1.78 ratio movies. I guess you better have multiple rows of seating for different ratios or be able to move your chairs closer to the screen. Nothing like making life hard on the consumer.

It's the same thing here. You have some studios wanting to mix 7.1 one way and others doing it a different way. Yea the AVR manufacturers can probably handle all this, but why should they have too. Why can't there just be a standard. Without standards it becomes very hard to move forward. I wonder why so many studios don't even bother with 7.1. After seeing all the different ways it can be mixed I don't think I'd want to deal with it either.

I know that was a pointless rant and many people might not agree with me. But that is how I see it and it makes me feel better to just get it out.

Oh and I have no problem with the PS3. It is an improvement because it gave us something that wasn't there before. If it doesn't work right 100% yet, it is still better than not having it. It sure would be funny if the new standalones come out and people have the same problems.

Well stated. Of course this won't prevent new format wars and following in the footsteps of the home computer industry, but I agree with you.

[jpco]

Originally Posted by JayG30

Oh and I have no problem with the PS3. It is an improvement because it gave us something that wasn't there before. If it doesn't work right 100% yet, it is still better than not having it. It sure would be funny if the new standalones come out and people have the same problems.

I'm sure new standalones will have issues as well. My Yamaha has problems with bitsreamed DTS HD as have Denon and Onkyo. There's a reason there are so few ways to access this codec properly.

Why we need 2 different LOSSLESS codecs is beyond my understanding, but I'm glad there's a $400 2.0 BD player that can access both of them.

[TRT]

Originally Posted by grtwhtsk

Please forgive my ignorance as I ask this question, but I feel even more lost after this latest PS3 update. Will the DTS-HD MA work through my Sony STR-KS2000 receiver? If so, what do I have to do on my end so that it works properly?

Can someone please help me out as my head is spinning trying to get a grasp on this? Thank you.

Does your receiver have HDMI inputs?