18" Easy Button End Tables 24" x 21" x 36" hwd

NEO Dan · 04-11-08, 08:35 AM

This year looks to be the year of the 18" driver

This will be my construction and documentation thread

This will work with anything from a Dayton Classic 18" with a 240 watt plate amp up to the Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X on 3KW. The RSS390HF-4 and the BASH 300 look good. I'm personally thinking the eD 19Ov.2 on a EP2500 will be used in my build.

Every version should include some form of subsonic filter at ~10Hz, the PE and BASH plate amps are easiest, I can calculate the resistor values and post them. Once I get the EP2500 I plan on figuring out how to mod the filters, I will share that info

Proposed build:
24" x 21" x 36" hwd
Internal volume just over 6'³ @ ~10Hz, port area > 6" id.
The experiment is to get the low tune and useable response into the single digits while cheating the port resonance

This set of cut sheets is for a two cabinet build. You will need 4 sheets of 3/4" MDF

You need to make two #1, one #2, and one #3.

NEO Dan · 04-11-08, 08:35 AM

UPDATE:
I have come up with a slightly larger design that features larger ports with an aggregate area >8"Id. The volume is also up around 6.375'³ the tuning should come in around 12Hz.
You will need a 1.25" round-over for the port bends and opening, it's available at MLCS.
Don't forget the 4-$2.50 pillows from Wal-Mart

The Shiva-X on a filter modded(easy to do) PE BASH 500 would be provide amazing deep bass response in this box.

Here is a 6'³ sealed vs old vs new comparison:

Raw response, no SSF or room gain added.
As you can see there is ~2dB more output on the low end vs the old design.
The response with the Maelstrom-X will still tend to be a bit lean in most rooms, but it has all the usable extension and articulation you could ever hope for. The system group delay factor (Sum of (GDxHz) is below 250 down to 15Hz.

NEO Dan · 04-11-08, 08:36 AM

Construction Section:

Just got back from HomeDepot

You will need a roundover bit 1.5" or 1.25" will work
MLCS has them @ $46 for the 1.5" #8658 or 39$ for the 1.25" #8659

NEO Dan · 04-12-08, 07:42 PM

Here are the Cut sheets for the single cab build:

tundrSQ · 04-12-08, 08:07 PM

Great thread, anyway to get the cut list down to 3 sheets?

NEO Dan · 04-12-08, 10:20 PM

tundrSQ,
I do have a smaller version for 15" divers that is 3 sheets for 2 boxes.

But for this you could use 2 handi panels instead of the 4th sheet, to save some money. I just noticed Friday when I bought MDF the pricing for 4 handi panels is almost exactly the same as a regular 49" x 97" sheet.

JaxLax · 04-12-08, 10:44 PM

you have 6 braces (the long ones that create the port) in the drawing that are not included on the cut sheets... or did i miss them?

robertcharles · 04-12-08, 11:10 PM

I like those boxes. I am looking at getting 4 of the parts express tc closeouts. Maybe we could go with a box somewhat like yours if they model well.

NEO Dan · 04-12-08, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaxLax

you have 6 braces (the long ones that create the port) in the drawing that are not included on the cut sheets... or did i miss them?

Good point, I think there is more than enough scrap to get these cut.

NEO Dan · 04-12-08, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertcharles

I like those boxes. I am looking at getting 4 of the parts express tc closeouts. Maybe we could go with a box somewhat like yours if they model well.

Right,
like you would ever NEED another sub

Just busting your chops

You've not even got your BEAST running yet.

Your just hooked on MDF dust

........ Like me

Those TC colseout 12" are a sweet deal, 3= 4ohm load though.

Me, I like the 19Ov.2, as long as the params are not BS.

I ordered an 19Ov.2 this afternoon. So we shall see shortly.

I requested in the notes of my order that they include detailed TS params (including inductance) for both versions of the 19Ov.2 to be published in this thread along with the parameters I measure here. We shall see if there service/support is on the ball

Kil4Thril · 04-13-08, 01:17 AM

Just PM Mandos here at the forum, and he'll post the numbers in the thread.

Sorry, PM Chris Schempff or alexlindeman - I gave a different forum name.

NEO Dan · 04-13-08, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kil4Thril

Just PM Mandos here at the forum, and he'll post the numbers in the thread.

Sorry, PM Chris Schempff or alexlindeman - I gave a different forum name.

Kil4Thril,
Good idea. I'll invite them over while I'm at it

*****

Here is a preliminary of the in-room response I am shooting for. This would take into account a custom modded EP2500 filter section and room gain of 6dB per octave @30Hz. Most rooms have better gain than that. The rising response will be mostly eliminated by bass management, but this gives you the option to raise the X-over point for when you want to get lots of impact

.
I have a couple parametric EQ's already that will allow me to prototype this filter before I mod the EP2500. I am waiting to order the EP2500 until after I've got the sub completed, should take about a week.

robertcharles · 04-13-08, 06:57 PM

I am having such a good tim e building, just looking for more, but different.

NEO Dan · 04-13-08, 11:26 PM

I have now inhaled enough mdf fiber to officially have "Woodboogers"

Hopefully I'll get the four holes router'd out in the braces and then it's on to glue up

Kubbie · 04-14-08, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEO Dan

I have now inhaled enough mdf fiber to officially have "Woodboogers"

Being a carpenter for years, I know what you mean. If the respirator is too bulky, get yourself some decent masks at least. Almost all mdf is manufactured with formaldehyde resins. MDF particles are much smaller than standard wood dust, get lodged deeper in the lungs and potentially cause more damage.

In addition, enough long term exposure to plain, straight 'ole wood dust can be carcinogenic.

Enough with the scaring, it will be an irritant, headaches, asthma, allergies. I myself get sinus infections a few times a year.

And shopvacs help catch some of the dust, but it being so small, you need a 1 micron filter to catch it all, you end of just circulating it around...

I don't mean to sound like your mom or school shop teacher, but fact is they did know a thing or two...

NEO Dan · 04-14-08, 02:47 PM

Kubbie,
I had a headache till just a couple hours ago. I used to get nosebleeds when I cut lots of MDF.

NEO Dan · 04-16-08, 08:58 AM

Update,
eD shipped yesterday, yea.
It's about this far away:

I'm feeling a bit screwed though. I can't locate my Jasper Jig to cut the two holes in the braces:

I've got no real extra cash ATM so I'm gonna give a good look around before I bite the bullet and go buy another router that I have a Circle Jig for.

tundrSQ · 04-16-08, 09:18 AM

You can cut the holes with a jigsaw..in fact I would NEVER use a router with MDF....maybe I'm a wuss....but its bad enough using a table saw with it.

Baltic Birch is your friend!!!!

NEO Dan · 04-17-08, 02:52 AM

tundrSQ,
i have some Baltic Birch but I I'm more partial to MDF, that is the saw is more partial to it.

I found the Jasper Jig I had used it as a shim when I reassembled s squirrel cage fan from a HVAC unit. that was why I knew I had just seen it. I had been walking by it several times daily.

There was decent progress today: click on picture for slideshow

And my driver has left columbus and should be local within the next hour or so.

kemist1117 · 04-17-08, 10:00 AM

Dan can you post the 15" table build.

Is it the same tune as this one?

I am looking to order a C15.1 from AE (supposed to be similar to the AV15) and was looking for build options.

NEO Dan · 04-17-08, 10:20 AM

kemist1117,
the origional version is narrower at 18.5" . I would tennetavely recomend the 21" wide version I am building now, but hold on untill I confirm tuning. I Will have to redraw the origional if you want it.

Here is a link to the origional

The current has more bracing and a double baffle to allow you to flush mount the driver

price3 · 04-17-08, 10:40 AM

Kind of OT, but if you are dealing with a regular MDF butt joint at 90 degrees, how big of a roundover can you do before you have to worry about cutting through the wood? I would think 1.5" is getting to that point already... Anyone know?

Those look like nice bar clamps Dan, what kind are they?

NEO Dan · 04-17-08, 11:10 AM

I used 1.5" raidus in the drawings, there's still plenty of meat there.

The bar clamps are from Rockler. Not cheap but I catch them on sale.

NEO Dan · 04-17-08, 12:41 PM

Plenty of meat in the corners, see:

NEO Dan · 04-25-08, 11:41 PM

My woofer got punted by FedEx, causing a bent frame and loose motor assembly:

But I guess that is to be expected when the motor is 2-25mm slices of magnet and a 19mm top plate

Alex at eD was quick to start the process to get the driver picked up and a new one on it's way. I should have a replacement tomorrow.

michael hurd · 04-25-08, 11:45 PM

That's gotta suck, but that is what insurance is for. I have seen cast aluminum frames broken via impact... it seems that if it is heavy and has a fragile sticker.... it is more apt to damage.

NEO Dan · 04-27-08, 02:24 PM

I finally got one finished
Here is the impedance data for tuning:
;===================================================
Vented box test completed: Sat Apr 26 21:51:39 2008
Vented box drive current 3181.82 uA
Shunts: No Shunts Used
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Revc = 5.1217 (box test)
flo = 7.6685, Zlo = 26.5810
fhi = 34.8161, Zhi = 70.4773
fm = 10.4869, Zmid = 5.8855
Fsb = 25.4592
Ha = 0.4119
Alpha = 0.7912
Qloss = -1.#IND
;-------------------------------------------------------------------

NEO Dan · 04-28-08, 12:22 PM

It lives

alexlindeman · 04-28-08, 02:19 PM

Glad to see the other one arrived safely.

JaxLax · 04-28-08, 03:48 PM

test it, test it, test it!!!
I want to build something very similar this summer...

04-11-08, 08:35 AM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
NEO Dan AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Was in North East Ohio, now Columbus Posts: 2,431	18" Easy Button End Tables 24" x 21" x 36" hwd This year looks to be the year of the 18" driver This will be my construction and documentation thread This will work with anything from a Dayton Classic 18" with a 240 watt plate amp up to the Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X on 3KW. The RSS390HF-4 and the BASH 300 look good. I'm personally thinking the eD 19Ov.2 on a EP2500 will be used in my build. Every version should include some form of subsonic filter at ~10Hz, the PE and BASH plate amps are easiest, I can calculate the resistor values and post them. Once I get the EP2500 I plan on figuring out how to mod the filters, I will share that info Proposed build: 24" x 21" x 36" hwd Internal volume just over 6'³ @ ~10Hz, port area > 6" id. The experiment is to get the low tune and useable response into the single digits while cheating the port resonance This set of cut sheets is for a two cabinet build. You will need 4 sheets of 3/4" MDF You need to make two #1, one #2, and one #3. __________________ Regards, Dan

04-11-08, 08:35 AM	#2 \| Link
NEO Dan AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Was in North East Ohio, now Columbus Posts: 2,431	UPDATE: I have come up with a slightly larger design that features larger ports with an aggregate area >8"Id. The volume is also up around 6.375'³ the tuning should come in around 12Hz. You will need a 1.25" round-over for the port bends and opening, it's available at MLCS. Don't forget the 4-$2.50 pillows from Wal-Mart The Shiva-X on a filter modded(easy to do) PE BASH 500 would be provide amazing deep bass response in this box. Here is a 6'³ sealed vs old vs new comparison: Raw response, no SSF or room gain added. As you can see there is ~2dB more output on the low end vs the old design. The response with the Maelstrom-X will still tend to be a bit lean in most rooms, but it has all the usable extension and articulation you could ever hope for. The system group delay factor (Sum of (GDxHz) is below 250 down to 15Hz. __________________ Regards, Dan Last edited by NEO Dan; 10-18-08 at 02:20 PM..

04-11-08, 08:36 AM	#3 \| Link
NEO Dan AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Was in North East Ohio, now Columbus Posts: 2,431	Construction Section: Just got back from HomeDepot You will need a roundover bit 1.5" or 1.25" will work MLCS has them @ $46 for the 1.5" #8658 or 39$ for the 1.25" #8659 __________________ Regards, Dan Last edited by NEO Dan; 04-12-08 at 12:58 PM..

04-12-08, 07:42 PM	#4 \| Link
NEO Dan AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Was in North East Ohio, now Columbus Posts: 2,431	Here are the Cut sheets for the single cab build: __________________ Regards, Dan

04-12-08, 08:07 PM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
tundrSQ AVS Special Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,785	Great thread, anyway to get the cut list down to 3 sheets?

04-12-08, 10:20 PM	#6 \| Link
NEO Dan AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Was in North East Ohio, now Columbus Posts: 2,431	tundrSQ, I do have a smaller version for 15" divers that is 3 sheets for 2 boxes. But for this you could use 2 handi panels instead of the 4th sheet, to save some money. I just noticed Friday when I bought MDF the pricing for 4 handi panels is almost exactly the same as a regular 49" x 97" sheet. __________________ Regards, Dan Last edited by NEO Dan; 04-13-08 at 02:08 PM..

04-12-08, 10:44 PM	#7 \| Link
JaxLax Some Dude Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Jacksonville Posts: 30	you have 6 braces (the long ones that create the port) in the drawing that are not included on the cut sheets... or did i miss them?

04-12-08, 11:10 PM	#8 \| Link
robertcharles AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Orleans Posts: 1,322	I like those boxes. I am looking at getting 4 of the parts express tc closeouts. Maybe we could go with a box somewhat like yours if they model well.

04-13-08, 01:17 AM	#11 \| Link
Kil4Thril spambot Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 318	Just PM Mandos here at the forum, and he'll post the numbers in the thread. Sorry, PM Chris Schempff or alexlindeman - I gave a different forum name. __________________ will work for sushi Last edited by Kil4Thril; 04-13-08 at 01:33 AM..

04-13-08, 06:57 PM	#13 \| Link
robertcharles AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Orleans Posts: 1,322	I am having such a good tim e building, just looking for more, but different.

04-13-08, 11:26 PM	#14 \| Link
NEO Dan AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Was in North East Ohio, now Columbus Posts: 2,431	I have now inhaled enough mdf fiber to officially have "Woodboogers" Hopefully I'll get the four holes router'd out in the braces and then it's on to glue up __________________ Regards, Dan

04-14-08, 02:47 PM	#16 \| Link
NEO Dan AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Was in North East Ohio, now Columbus Posts: 2,431	Kubbie, I had a headache till just a couple hours ago. I used to get nosebleeds when I cut lots of MDF. __________________ Regards, Dan

04-16-08, 08:58 AM	#17 \| Link
NEO Dan AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Was in North East Ohio, now Columbus Posts: 2,431	Update, eD shipped yesterday, yea. It's about this far away: I'm feeling a bit screwed though. I can't locate my Jasper Jig to cut the two holes in the braces: I've got no real extra cash ATM so I'm gonna give a good look around before I bite the bullet and go buy another router that I have a Circle Jig for. __________________ Regards, Dan Last edited by NEO Dan; 04-16-08 at 10:59 AM..

04-16-08, 09:18 AM	#18 \| Link
tundrSQ AVS Special Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,785	You can cut the holes with a jigsaw..in fact I would NEVER use a router with MDF....maybe I'm a wuss....but its bad enough using a table saw with it. Baltic Birch is your friend!!!!

04-17-08, 02:52 AM	#19 \| Link
NEO Dan AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Was in North East Ohio, now Columbus Posts: 2,431	tundrSQ, i have some Baltic Birch but I I'm more partial to MDF, that is the saw is more partial to it. I found the Jasper Jig I had used it as a shim when I reassembled s squirrel cage fan from a HVAC unit. that was why I knew I had just seen it. I had been walking by it several times daily. There was decent progress today: click on picture for slideshow And my driver has left columbus and should be local within the next hour or so. __________________ Regards, Dan

04-17-08, 10:00 AM	#20 \| Link
kemist1117 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 277	Dan can you post the 15" table build. Is it the same tune as this one? I am looking to order a C15.1 from AE (supposed to be similar to the AV15) and was looking for build options.

04-17-08, 10:20 AM	#21 \| Link
NEO Dan AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Was in North East Ohio, now Columbus Posts: 2,431	kemist1117, the origional version is narrower at 18.5" . I would tennetavely recomend the 21" wide version I am building now, but hold on untill I confirm tuning. I Will have to redraw the origional if you want it. Here is a link to the origional The current has more bracing and a double baffle to allow you to flush mount the driver __________________ Regards, Dan

04-17-08, 10:40 AM	#22 \| Link
price3 heh.. he said member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Clemson, SC Posts: 1,062 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	Kind of OT, but if you are dealing with a regular MDF butt joint at 90 degrees, how big of a roundover can you do before you have to worry about cutting through the wood? I would think 1.5" is getting to that point already... Anyone know? Those look like nice bar clamps Dan, what kind are they?

04-17-08, 11:10 AM	#23 \| Link
NEO Dan AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Was in North East Ohio, now Columbus Posts: 2,431	I used 1.5" raidus in the drawings, there's still plenty of meat there. The bar clamps are from Rockler. Not cheap but I catch them on sale. __________________ Regards, Dan

04-17-08, 12:41 PM	#24 \| Link
NEO Dan AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Was in North East Ohio, now Columbus Posts: 2,431	Plenty of meat in the corners, see: __________________ Regards, Dan

04-25-08, 11:41 PM	#25 \| Link
NEO Dan AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Was in North East Ohio, now Columbus Posts: 2,431	Update My woofer got punted by FedEx, causing a bent frame and loose motor assembly: But I guess that is to be expected when the motor is 2-25mm slices of magnet and a 19mm top plate Alex at eD was quick to start the process to get the driver picked up and a new one on it's way. I should have a replacement tomorrow. __________________ Regards, Dan

04-25-08, 11:45 PM	#26 \| Link
michael hurd electricity user Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Nipigon Ontario Canada Posts: 1,709	That's gotta suck, but that is what insurance is for. I have seen cast aluminum frames broken via impact... it seems that if it is heavy and has a fragile sticker.... it is more apt to damage. __________________ Big boxes FTW~

04-27-08, 02:24 PM	#27 \| Link
NEO Dan AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Was in North East Ohio, now Columbus Posts: 2,431	Tuning @ 10.4869Hz I finally got one finished Here is the impedance data for tuning: ;=================================================== Vented box test completed: Sat Apr 26 21:51:39 2008 Vented box drive current 3181.82 uA Shunts: No Shunts Used ;------------------------------------------------------------------ Revc = 5.1217 (box test) flo = 7.6685, Zlo = 26.5810 fhi = 34.8161, Zhi = 70.4773 fm = 10.4869, Zmid = 5.8855 Fsb = 25.4592 Ha = 0.4119 Alpha = 0.7912 Qloss = -1.#IND ;------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________ Regards, Dan

04-28-08, 12:22 PM	#28 \| Link
NEO Dan AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Was in North East Ohio, now Columbus Posts: 2,431	It lives __________________ Regards, Dan

04-28-08, 02:19 PM	#29 \| Link
alexlindeman Elemental Designs Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Newton, IA Posts: 700	Glad to see the other one arrived safely.

04-28-08, 03:48 PM	#30 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
JaxLax Some Dude Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Jacksonville Posts: 30	test it, test it, test it!!! I want to build something very similar this summer...