LG BH200: bug tracking thread (non-disk specific)

[casey.christian]

First, let me say thanks to AVS Forum members bradavon, stpat, and the entire group of BH200 owners who've helped me not only with my machine but also who inspired me to start this thread. A very special thanks to bradavon for his tireless work collecting and organizing information; I've based this thread on his model!

LG BH200: bug tracking thread

for non-disk specific issues

PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD & INFORMATION CONTAINED WITHIN:
*collect confirmed bugs and other irregularities in the LG BH200
*support other users with help for and/or confirmation of bugs
*provide LG employees who might be reading a chance to comment and/or make note of confirmed bugs for future firmware updates
*please note, this is for non-disk specific issues; to report a problem disk please use this thread.
*for questions regarding the BH200's capabilities or what issues are related to what firmware, please use this thread.
*whenever possible, before adding a bug to the "official" list, I will try to have it confirmed by at least two users, and when applicable with at least two different A/V setups (i.e. receivers, TV's, etc.)
*when posting a possible bug, please provide as much information as possible (i.e. firmware version, driver version, A/V setup, etc.)

REPORTED BUGS

Confirmed by multiple users (many people, different locations, with a wide variety of A/V equipment):

1. When sending uncompressed PCM 5.1 audio from a Blu-ray disk to a receiver via HDMI, audio channels are incorrectly reported as 7.1; no sound is output via "extra 2" rear speakers. For more details, click on this thread.

2. When bitstreaming Dolby Digital Plus to a receiver via HDMI, there is sometimes a "motorboat" or "helicopter" sound. This has been confirmed by users with Onkyo, Pioneer, and Marantz receivers. While the vast majority of reports about this problem are related to the HD DVD format (probably because DD+ is much more common on HD DVD), it has been confirmed by at least one person on Blu-ray. The bug is not always repeatable at the same play time or even on the same disk in many instances. Click here for a thread dedicated to this issue.

3. When viewing upscaled 4:3 SD DVD's via HDMI, images are incorrectly stretched into the 16:9 aspect ratio instead of being displayed in their native 4:3. Pending further research, some users suggest this can be defeated if your display allows you to select pillar box (4:3) when viewing content via the HDMI connection. Others have suggested that if 480i/p output is selected on the BH200, then the stretching does not occur. But as soon as any upscaling happens the incorrect 16:9 aspect ratio also happens. For more details and links to other threads, click here.

4. There continue to be audio and video dropouts. While this got better with the March "beta" firmware and has gotten even better with the April firmware, it still happens too often. Most users report more video drops than audio. The drops are most often not repeatable at the same play time or even on the same disk. Ironically (perhaps), some of the most frequent video drops occur on the BH200's menu and home screens.

4(a). The issues with audio and video dropouts seem to be related to the fact that the BH200 is very "particular" with its HDMI handshake. Furthermore, while these issues still occur with HDMI 1.3 devices, they seem to be much more common and severe with older versions (1.1, 1.2) of HDMI. See examples here, here, and here, as well as in the Mini-FAQ. UPDATE: As of 1/3/2010, the HDMI handshake issues still seem to be causing audio and/or video drops with the latest firmware and newest Blu-ray releases. See posting here for more details.

Confirmed by limited users (fewer people, regional/localized, specific make or model of A/V equipment):

1. When the BH200 is connected to a Denon 4306 receiver via HDMI there's only stereo PCM audio sent and/or received instead of Multi-Channel. Testing shows that the 4306 will receive Multi-Channel PCM audio via HDMI from other devices including the PS3 and Toshiba HD-E1. Additionally, the newer Denon 4308 has no problems when paired with the BH200. So, this would seem to be something specific to only the 4306 and BH200 combination. As of now, this has only been confirmed with the European model of the Denon and the North American version of the LG. UPDATE: according to this post it may be an issue with all Denon receivers from that model year and has been confirmed with the 2807.

2. If the BH200 is connected directly to a Mitsubishi WS 55315 and/or 65315 via HDMI/DVI, it turns the television off when booting up. If the HDMI is run through a receiver first, or the television is switched to a different input while the BH200 is booting up, this does not occur. The television is not capable of displaying 720p (only 480i, 480p, and 1080i). It is therefore suspected that the BH200's forced resolution setting is not working correctly and that when booting up it still sends a 720 "test signal" as though it was set to auto. This causes the television to turn off as a protective measure.

3. Hybrid Super Audio CDs are not read properly by European models of the BH200. The Hybrid SACD is recognized as a data CD and therefore does not play correctly. UPDATE: This has now been confirmed in the North American model as well (posted here). More details here.

4. If CEA extensions to the display EDID data are not present (i.e. DVI-D with HDCP displays), the BH200 will not accept user selected output of 1080p; instead it reverts to 1080i. See this post for more details.

[allargon]

4:3 SD DVD's are stretched during upconversion when they should not be. (This is a bug, not a feature.) April update/702 driver

[casey.christian]

AH! I've heard about this, but don't think of it too much as I don't have many SD DVD's that are 4:3. But, now that you mention it, I do have a few. I'll pop them in and see what happens.

Also, could you provide me a few links here on the forums where this has been discussed and confirmed? It's not that I don't trust you; just so I can include the links on the bug posting ... thanks!

-C.

Originally Posted by allargon

4:3 SD DVD's are stretched during upconversion when they should not be. (This is a bug, not a feature.) April update/702 driver

[volleybradt]

Don't forget about the Dolby Digital + issue for some receivers. Hearing nothing but the helicopter sound....

[davcole]

Originally Posted by volleybradt

Don't forget about the Dolby Digital + issue for some receivers. Hearing nothing but the helicopter sound....

Yes experienced this on the Onkyo 705. After successfully playing some BD's in PCM, DTS-MA and TRUEHD, they all played without a hitch. When I got the player on Sunday I didn't have a problem with it reading my HD DVD's at all wheter it was DD+ or TRUEHD. The second day I loaded some HD DVDs such as Bourne Supremacy and U-571 which I got the "helicopter" sound where you would see that the DD+ bitstream wasn't correctly being sent to the receiver. The 705 does not identify the bitstream being sent, you only get the noise.

Now I did also notice on U-571 that it also had the same issue when I tried to use the DTS track. Seems that the bitstreaming required a reboot of the player to correctly identify and play the discs.

I do want to make sure it's known that this is intermitent and does not happen everytime you load a disc.

In summary it seems that the bitstream is in connection with HD DVD's and not BD as i've not had a bitstream problem with the BD's i've played.

Has anyone found a work around for this?

[allargon]

Originally Posted by casey.christian

AH! I've heard about this, but don't think of it too much as I don't have many SD DVD's that are 4:3. But, now that you mention it, I do have a few. I'll pop them in and see what happens.

Also, could you provide me a few links here on the forums where this has been discussed and confirmed? It's not that I don't trust you; just so I can include the links on the bug posting ... thanks!

-C.

Sure... here are a few random people from the owner's thread. The Sammy BD-UP5K does the same thing. The Toshiba players, the PS3 and (I believe) the Oppos are able to show upconvert 4:3 SD DVD's but show them (properly) as pillarboxed. The LG BH200 also stretches 4:3 standard def extras on Blu-Ray/HD DVD discs.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post13815235

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post13650616

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post13625859

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post13626089

[sivartk]

Originally Posted by casey.christian

AH! I've heard about this, but don't think of it too much as I don't have many SD DVD's that are 4:3. But, now that you mention it, I do have a few. I'll pop them in and see what happens.

Also, could you provide me a few links here on the forums where this has been discussed and confirmed? It's not that I don't trust you; just so I can include the links on the bug posting ... thanks!

-C.

I'll confirm that it is happening on all 4:3 SD material (whether on a DVD, HD DVD or BD disc). I have my projector set to 'native' so the signal it is receiving is 720p stretched and up-converted image from the 4:3 SD source material.

[pobff]

It'd be nice if LG adds in a function to set it to "dot to dot" or "stretch". I like mine stretched for 4:3 as I totally do not like huge black areas on my screen.

[bradavon]

Excellent work Casey.

Can I suggest users add to their signature what firmware and driver they use.

It would also be handy to add what your TV/Amp Make/Model is and what connection type too. You can edit your Signature here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/profi...=editsignature

Originally Posted by casey.christian

*for questions regarding the BH200's capabilities or what issues are related to what firmware, please use this thread.

I presume this link should point here and not the disc problems thread? -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1009104

Originally Posted by casey.christian

Also, could you provide me a few links here on the forums where this has been discussed and confirmed? It's not that I don't trust you; just so I can include the links on the bug posting ... thanks!

As I understand it a 4:3 SD DVD is stretched vertically to 16:9 when BH200 outputs over HDMI in 1280x720p, 1920x1080i or 1920x1080p.

If you set the BH200 to output in 720x480 (or if available 720x576) the problem doesn't occur and a 4:3 SD DVD displays in 4:3. If you use a Component cable (which I think is only sent out as 720x480/720x576) the problem also doesn't occur.

Originally Posted by pobff

It'd be nice if LG adds in a function to set it to "dot to dot" or "stretch". I like mine stretched for 4:3 as I totally do not like huge black areas on my screen.

Can we please reserve this thread to bugs not future requests .

You prefer 4:3 DVDs stretched vertically to 16:9? Don't the stretched heads bother you? I do see where you're coming from but if I were to watch it that way I'd see if I could stretch it vertically to compensate (using the TV remote).

[casey.christian]

Hey - thanks for the links! When I get home tonight I'll do some testing on my own 4:3 disks and then post the bug info.

Thanks, again!

Originally Posted by allargon

Sure... here are a few random people from the owner's thread. The Sammy BD-UP5K does the same thing. The Toshiba players, the PS3 and (I believe) the Oppos are able to show upconvert 4:3 SD DVD's but show them (properly) as pillarboxed. The LG BH200 also stretches 4:3 standard def extras on Blu-Ray/HD DVD discs.

[oilblue]

Originally Posted by bradavon

Can I suggest users add to their signature what firmware and driver they use.

It would also be handy to add what your TV/Amp Make/Model is and what connection type too. You can edit your Signature here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/profi...=editsignature

Putting our current firmware and such in the signature might be useful in other contexts, but in terms of bug reporting in this thread, it could be rather misleading. Unless I'm completely mistaken, a specific signature is *not* stamped on posts. Rather, the current signature is always appended to posts. Consequently, the signature and bug report would easily get out of sync (think a couple months down the road when a new firmware and/or driver is available...I update my sig...and now my bug reports incorrectly reference the new firmware/driver combo...not good).

That said, firmware/driver info is crucial to getting proper bug reports put together. My suggestion is that firmware/driver info be included with the post itself (i.e. it won't change when your signature is later updated).

[casey.christian]

Originally Posted by volleybradt

Don't forget about the Dolby Digital + issue for some receivers. Hearing nothing but the helicopter sound....

Originally Posted by davcole

Yes experienced this on the Onkyo 705. After successfully playing some BD's in PCM, DTS-MA and TRUEHD, they all played without a hitch. When I got the player on Sunday I didn't have a problem with it reading my HD DVD's at all wheter it was DD+ or TRUEHD. The second
[snip]
Now I did also notice on U-571 that it also had the same issue when I tried to use the DTS track. Seems that the bitstreaming required a reboot of the player to correctly identify and play the discs.

@volleybradt - could you please provide a few more details such as the make/model of your receiver, what disks you've had this happen on, etc.?

@davcole - thanks for your detailed posting! So just to clarify, you're having this problem with both Blu-rays and HD DVD movies and with audio formats other than DD+? May I assume you are using HDMI to your 705?

-C.

[oilblue]

Thanks for putting this together casey.christian!

Here's a bit more info on the SD 4:3 issue:

Originally Posted by oilblue

SD 4:3 is stretched, not hi-def content. In other words, Casablanca on DVD is stretched, but not HD DVD. Extras on BD and HD DVD are another story as they aren't necessarily hi-def.

Essentially the BH200 is stretching all SD content. Stretching anamorphic content is the correct thing to do (otherwise anamorphic content would look squished). If the original aspect ratio is desired, the BH200 should only stretch *anamorphic* SD content rather than *all* SD content.

At least that's my understanding of what it should be doing vs. what it is doing.

Yeah, I quoted myself.

Reproducibility: Always
Firmware: All (so far BH02080402F, BH02080314B, and original)
Driver: 0702, 0701
Connection: HDMI (component does not upconvert, so it might not exhibit the same problem)

[casey.christian]

Originally Posted by bradavon

Can I suggest users add to their signature what firmware and driver they use.

It would also be handy to add what your TV/Amp Make/Model is and what connection type too.

Originally Posted by oilblue

Putting our current firmware and such in the signature might be useful in other contexts, but in terms of bug reporting in this thread, it could be rather misleading. Unless I'm completely mistaken, a specific signature is *not* stamped on posts. Rather, the current signature is always appended to posts. Consequently, the signature and bug report would easily get out of sync (think a couple months down the road when a new firmware and/or driver is available...I update my sig...and now my bug reports incorrectly reference the new firmware/driver combo...not good).

Yeah, I agree with you on this one oilblue. As time progresses and future firmware upgrades are released, this could become confusing. I think it's best just to keep all the pertinent information in our postings and not in our signatures.

-C.

[bradavon]

Originally Posted by oilblue

That said, firmware/driver info is crucial to getting proper bug reports put together. My suggestion is that firmware/driver info be included with the post itself (i.e. it won't change when your signature is later updated).

You seem to be half right. The signature is only added to new posts (after the signature has been amended), old posts it doesn't appear on, even if you edit them. That said, I guess old posts will still show the firmware you were running at the time you created the post. That could cause confusion.

I've added text to my signature but it is not appearing on old posts at all. It would stop the constant questions: "what firmware/driver are you running" and "what Amp/Connection type). If the problem also occurred with older firmware that needs mentioning too.

It maybe safer to just put in your signature:

1. Your make/model of TV
2. Your make/model of Amp
3. How your TV and Amp are connected

[casey.christian]

Originally Posted by bradavon

Excellent work Casey.

Thank you! You've done such a great job, I feel like I have big shoes to fill!

Originally Posted by bradavon

I presume this link should point here and not the disc problems thread? -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1009104

You are correct; sorry about that. I've corrected the link so it now points to the firmware thread instead.

Originally Posted by bradavon

As I understand it a 4:3 SD DVD is stretched vertically to 16:9 when BH200 outputs over HDMI in 1280x720p, 1920x1080i or 1920x1080p.

If you set the BH200 to output in 720x480 (or if available 720x576) the problem doesn't occur and a 4:3 SD DVD displays in 4:3. If you use a Component cable (which I think is only sent out as 720x480/720x576) the problem also doesn't occur.

Interesting. I'm going to do some testing of my own tonight when I get home from work. The only thing I won't be able to check is what happens when connecting via HDMI instead of component. I'm pretty sure I don't have any component cables laying around. Can anyone else out there give this a try?

Thanks, again!

-C.

[oilblue]

bradavon:
The issue wasn't whether it would be added to old posts without a sig. The problem is, the current sig is the *only* sig that's ever displayed...on all posts wth a sig...regardless of what the sig was at the time the post was created (i.e. I don't think the sig contents are stamped on the post, only that a sig should be displayed).

Bottom line, anything in the sig cannot be accurately correlated to the content of a specific post. Particularly as time goes on (i.e. someone reading the bug list a month from now). IMO, if the firmware/driver/connection/equipment details are to be meaningful, that info should included in the body of the post.

[oilblue]

re: helicopter on bitstreamed DD+ tracks (to Onkoyo receivers at least)

Originally Posted by davcole

Has anyone found a work around for this?

In an earlier post you indicated that changing from 192kHz to 96kHz avoided the problem. Did it make a difference? Or is the helicopter happening anyway?

[davcole]

Originally Posted by oilblue

re: helicopter on bitstreamed DD+ tracks (to Onkoyo receivers at least)


In an earlier post you indicated that changing from 192kHz to 96kHz avoided the problem. Did it make a difference? Or is the helicopter happening anyway?

I thought it had but it didn't make a difference. The issue happens sporadically and only seems to be related to HD DVD's?

[bradavon]

I think the Amp/TV info would be meaningful as that tends to rarely change for most users. Anyway back to bug discussion.

[davcole]

Originally Posted by casey.christian

@davcole - thanks for your detailed posting! So just to clarify, you're having this problem with both Blu-rays and HD DVD movies and with audio formats other than DD+? May I assume you are using HDMI to your 705?

-C.

This is only happening with HD DVD bitstreaming so far only with DD+ and the DTS core (dts... only one disc). Yes, i'm using HDMI connection from BH200 to the Onkyo 705.

[stpat]

Most tv's have this option... they let the user decide how 4:3 material should be displayed.

Originally Posted by pobff

It'd be nice if LG adds in a function to set it to "dot to dot" or "stretch". I like mine stretched for 4:3 as I totally do not like huge black areas on my screen.

[volleybradt]

Originally Posted by casey.christian

@volleybradt - could you please provide a few more details such as the make/model of your receiver, what disks you've had this happen on, etc.?

I use a Pioneer Elite 92 receiver and the problem is limited of course to HD DVDs that use DD+. Also this is only in bitstreaming while connected to HDMI.

[bradavon]

Originally Posted by stpat

Most tv's have this option... they let the user decide how 4:3 material should be displayed.

Isn't the problem that this display mode isn't available? My TV has such a mode but the available modes change depending on the connection type, annoyingly.

[stpat]

Yes. What I meant was that LG probably doesn't need to implement a "dot to dot" or "stretch" option, because if they just fix the problem, then people should be able to do it with their TVs. No?

Originally Posted by bradavon

Isn't the problem that this display mode isn't available? My TV has such a mode but the available modes change depending on the connection type, annoyingly.

[bradavon]

I see what you meant and yes agreed, fix the problem and people can use their TVs 4:3 mode. Which is how it's supposed to be done.

[pobff]

Originally Posted by stpat

Yes. What I meant was that LG probably doesn't need to implement a "dot to dot" or "stretch" option, because if they just fix the problem, then people should be able to do it with their TVs. No?

Hm...it's weird. The TV still doesn't do it correctly. I had Armageddon DVD and it's "wide screen in a 4:3 ratio". You do "dot to dot" on the TV itself and it's normal 16:9 stretching. You do "stretch", and you can't imagine how ugly it looks. I'll see if I can take a picture sometime. But the TV's option doesn't fix the problem.

[stpat]

No, I what I meant was, if LG were to fix the stretch problem, then we could just use our tv's to control it. I didn't mean that the Tv would fix the problem.

Originally Posted by pobff

Hm...it's weird. The TV still doesn't do it correctly. I had Armageddon DVD and it's "wide screen in a 4:3 ratio". You do "dot to dot" on the TV itself and it's normal 16:9 stretching. You do "stretch", and you can't imagine how ugly it looks. I'll see if I can take a picture sometime. But the TV's option doesn't fix the problem.

[pobff]

stpat -

Ah, gotcha. Sorry i misunderstood your statement.

(it's so nice to get a clarification of a comment rather than get a "snap-back-at-ya-are-you-stupid-or-what-that's-not-what-i-asked/said-you-moron" response back like in other forums. AVS is very cool. )

[dring]

Thanks for doing this, Casey.

Regarding bug #1:

When sending uncompressed PCM audio from a Blu-ray disk to a receiver via HDMI, audio channels are incorrectly reported as 7.1 instead of 5.1; no sound is output via "extra 2" rear speakers.

Minor nit: I suggest that you edit the start of that sentence to read "When sending uncompressed 5.1 PCM audio...". If a disc happened to contain 7.1 audio, then the observed behaviour wouldn't be a bug (unless the back 2 channels were silent in that case too -- I don't think anyone has reported that).