Sony KDL-55XBR8 vs Samsung LN-55A950

JamE55 · 07-24-08, 09:56 PM

Thought i'd create a seperate thread for these 2 HD LCD TV's and get your take/comment/opinion on which one you guys think will have a better picture quality. I know i've mentioned this in some threads but didn't want to hijack those.

Samsung LN-55A950 - MSRP $4,199.99

http://www.samsung.com/us/system/con...5a950_spec.pdf

Sony KDL-55XBR8 - $TBA

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/...release-dates/

Do you think they'll be equal in Black level?

chevydude26 · 07-24-08, 10:38 PM

a little early don't you think?

but man this is going to be a battle...samsung won the last battle with the 6&7 series lcd's

MonkeyMafia · 07-24-08, 11:31 PM

Well, I've really studied the Sammy A950 now... seen it twice, and spent over an hour each time with it, looking at it from all angles with all sorts of source material being played. I posted many pictures and videos of it in the other thread.

I will see if the SonyStyle store in Midtown has the XBR8 on display. If so, I will again spend hours in front of it... too bad I can't do a side by side, but this will be the closest thing.

Luckily, I live right around the block from both the Samsung Experience and SonyStyle store, so I'll give my impressions as soon as I can.

Cheers!

thepocket · 07-24-08, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyMafia

Well, I've really studied the Sammy A950 now... seen it twice, and spent over an hour each time with it, looking at it from all angles with all sorts of source material being played. I posted many pictures and videos of it in the other thread.

I will see if the SonyStyle store in Midtown has the XBR8 on display. If so, I will again spend hours in front of it... too bad I can't do a side by side, but this will be the closest thing.

Luckily, I live right around the block from both the Samsung Experience and SonyStyle store, so I'll give my impressions as soon as I can.

Cheers!

Sweetness! I hope Sony has the xbr8 on display

JamE55 · 07-24-08, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevydude26

a little early don't you think?

but man this is going to be a battle...samsung won the last battle with the 6&7 series lcd's

Yes i know it's early but i was just pretty excited about it

wanted to get everyone else's feedback on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyMafia

Well, I've really studied the Sammy A950 now... seen it twice, and spent over an hour each time with it, looking at it from all angles with all sorts of source material being played. I posted many pictures and videos of it in the other thread.

I will see if the SonyStyle store in Midtown has the XBR8 on display. If so, I will again spend hours in front of it... too bad I can't do a side by side, but this will be the closest thing.

Luckily, I live right around the block from both the Samsung Experience and SonyStyle store, so I'll give my impressions as soon as I can.

Cheers!

MM,

Really appreciate bro. Too bad there's no Samsung experience around here. I'll also check and see this weekened if the SonyStyle close here has the XBR8 but would like to hear your impressions on it.

MonkeyMafia · 07-25-08, 01:55 PM

Hey JamE55, you're not the same person from mbworld.org are you? just curious...

JamE55 · 07-25-08, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyMafia

Hey JamE55, you're not the same person from mbworld.org are you? just curious...

What's up MM? Yeah same person bro. Who's this?

Also what did you find out?

jxphillips · 07-25-08, 06:59 PM

Nice time to start this thread as I'm sure it's going to be a great discussion for the coming weeks and months.

One question I have - and it's been discussed in some of the other threads for these models - is how the RGB LED setup in the Sony will differ from White LED setup in the Samsung (assuming it is using a similar approach as the 81 series). Specifically, does this mean that Sony will not be incorporating a Color Filter in the XBR8 since the RGB source can essentially create the entire visible color spectrum? If so, what advantages if any could this give the XBR8 over the 950?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts

vtms · 07-25-08, 07:45 PM

The advantages of color 2D-dimming vs. 2D-dimming are better contrast, bigger color gamut and lower power consumption. On paper, big advantage to XBR8 unless 950 has a lot more zones.

jxphillips · 07-25-08, 07:48 PM

Thanks vtms... can you elaborate on the potential power advantage in the XBR8 setup? It's not completely intuitive why RGB would be better.

vtms · 07-25-08, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jxphillips

Thanks vtms... can you elaborate on the potential power advantage in the XBR8 setup? It's not completely intuitive why RGB would be better.

Let's say the screen displays a green frame. With white LEDs (blue LEDs with yellow phosphor coatings) a portion of that white light spectrum must be substracted/wasted so that the only color left after the "substraction" is green. With RGB LEDs, the same could be achieved by simply activating green LEDs with red and blue LEDs not drawing any power. That's my understanding.

Here's a nice article about color 2D-dimming:
http://www.eetasia.com/STATIC/PDF/20...URCES=DOWNLOAD

jxphillips · 07-25-08, 09:16 PM

Very interesting article. So if I understand:

Let's say we have one white LED (at 1W to keep it simple). To show a green frame, the LED will be using 1W and the light will be filtered to extract only the green color. The rest of the light will be wasted as heat.

For RGB LED's, the cluster of 1W may only need to turn on the green LED component. So again to keep it easy, it would only use 1/3W for the same green frame.

All of this assumes no dimming BTW. But it's seems to me that RBG can pontentially provide not only better contrast, color gamut, and power consumption, but it may also allow for much "finer" dimming control.

One more thing... I never really thought through how the dimming algorithm works until I read through the article. Since LCD's can be transitioned from opaque to transparent (think digital - open or closed) and the light source can be independently dimmed (almost like an analog signal), there appear to be endless combinations of dimming techniques. You could almost envision a future in which the LCD pixels would stay open (transparent) and the picture would be controlled completely by the backlight.

Hmmm...

KLee · 07-26-08, 12:10 PM

RGB LEDs should consume less watts in theory

Problem is, the Sim2/Dolbyvision prototype (which uses RGB LEDs) consumes 2Kwatts

and the Brightside RGB LED prototypes were ALSO very Watt hungry as well:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=916868

chevydude26 · 07-26-08, 12:57 PM

i'm thinking that perhaps the rgb led from the xbr8's might give sony's the slight edge over the a950...

both tv's will be phenomenal but my guess is that the sony might slightly get the edge over the samsung this time because of the rgb factor...but i know nothing about the intracacies of what makes a picture good considering i'm sure there are way more factors than just what the l.e.d is

this is a pretty exciting match-up

taurus2007 · 07-26-08, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevydude26

i'm thinking that perhaps the rgb led from the xbr8's might give sony's the slight edge over the a950...

both tv's will be phenomenal but my guess is that the sony might slightly get the edge over the samsung this time because of the rgb factor...but i know nothing about the intracacies of what makes a picture good considering i'm sure there are way more factors than just what the l.e.d is

this is a pretty exciting match-up

Why don't we just wait for both models to come out first before we start claiming one model has an edge over the other!

agustus · 07-26-08, 01:01 PM

The other thing that might give Sony the edge is a matte screen. The xbr8 is coming with a matte screen right?

taurus2007 · 07-26-08, 01:03 PM

I think it's piano black bezel but matte (or maybe semi-matte) screen.

chevydude26 · 07-26-08, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taurus2007

Why don't we just wait for both models to come out first before we start claiming one model has an edge over the other!

of course...i'm just guessing...considering how good the 650 and the 750 are its not out of the question that samsung can beat sony again...

these are currently the two titans in the lcd world

and even though i'm guessing that sony might have the slight edge in the l.e.d on paper because they chose the rgb route and i can't see sony letting samsung beat them two years in a row

l.e.d is new and could have issues...

who knows i'm happy with my a750...i can't see anything getting that much better within only a year

taurus2007 · 07-26-08, 01:07 PM

Perhaps rgb LED is better than white LED but you can be certain that Sony XBR8 will cost a heck more than Samsung 950.

rougebear · 07-26-08, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taurus2007

Perhaps rgb LED is better than white LED but you can be certain that Sony XBR8 will cost a heck more than Samsung 950.

You consider $4500 vs $4200 costing a heck more?

kazm899 · 07-26-08, 02:25 PM

I wonder if these sets will be able to handle motion well....

taurus2007 · 07-26-08, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rougebear

You consider $4500 vs $4200 costing a heck more?

That is just an MSRP! I am sure Samsung will discount their models. Only suckers would pay the MSRP.

badbeat33 · 07-26-08, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agustus

The other thing that might give Sony the edge is a matte screen. The xbr8 is coming with a matte screen right?

Some, like myself, would say this the matte/semi-matte screen would give Sony a DISadvantage.

studdad · 07-26-08, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taurus2007

That is just an MSRP! I am sure Samsung will discount their models. Only suckers would pay the MSRP.

Agreed, Samsung seems to come down on MSRP a lot quicker than Sony does, and street price seems to also drop faster.

jxphillips · 07-26-08, 02:58 PM

I seem to remember reading that the Sim2 / Dolby Vision TV used White LED's. RGB was to come at a later time.

Based on the info in these forums, it looks like the 46" XBR8 will be about $700 more than the 950. But the 55" prices may be more in line (about $300 more for the Sony). We'll know more once Sony releases their prices.

vtms · 07-26-08, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLee

RGB LEDs should consume less watts in theory
Problem is, the Sim2/Dolbyvision prototype (which uses RGB LEDs) consumes 2Kwatts

and the Brightside RGB LED prototypes were ALSO very Watt hungry as well:

Sim2 and Brightside both use white LEDs. The plans are to use RGBs long after the use of easier-to-handle white LEDs is perfected.

jxphillips · 07-26-08, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badbeat33

Some, like myself, would say this the matte/semi-matte screen would give Sony a DISadvantage.

I agree. While the glossy screen does create more reflection, it seems to provide a picture depth not possible with matte screens.

chevydude26 · 07-26-08, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badbeat33

Some, like myself, would say this the matte/semi-matte screen would give Sony a DISadvantage.

agreed i love my shiny glossy screen...i'm in a dark room so it enhances my content

Mrmiami · 07-26-08, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agustus

The other thing that might give Sony the edge is a matte screen. The xbr8 is coming with a matte screen right?

Not from the photo's I've seen of it. It sure looks like Sony has crossed over to Glossy on this series.

slumpey326 · 07-26-08, 05:58 PM

samsung experience has the 950 on display in nyc, pretty impressive.

07-24-08, 09:56 PM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
JamE55 Advanced Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 542	Sony KDL-55XBR8 vs Samsung LN-55A950 Thought i'd create a seperate thread for these 2 HD LCD TV's and get your take/comment/opinion on which one you guys think will have a better picture quality. I know i've mentioned this in some threads but didn't want to hijack those. Samsung LN-55A950 - MSRP $4,199.99 http://www.samsung.com/us/system/con...5a950_spec.pdf Sony KDL-55XBR8 - $TBA http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/...release-dates/ Do you think they'll be equal in Black level?

07-25-08, 07:45 PM	#9 \| Link
vtms Advanced Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 828	The advantages of color 2D-dimming vs. 2D-dimming are better contrast, bigger color gamut and lower power consumption. On paper, big advantage to XBR8 unless 950 has a lot more zones. __________________ Laser TMOS

07-25-08, 07:48 PM	#10 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
jxphillips Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 19	Thanks vtms... can you elaborate on the potential power advantage in the XBR8 setup? It's not completely intuitive why RGB would be better.

07-26-08, 01:03 PM	#17 \| Link
taurus2007 AVS Special Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Jax, FL Posts: 4,321	I think it's piano black bezel but matte (or maybe semi-matte) screen. __________________ Go 24

07-26-08, 01:07 PM	#19 \| Link
taurus2007 AVS Special Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Jax, FL Posts: 4,321	Perhaps rgb LED is better than white LED but you can be certain that Sony XBR8 will cost a heck more than Samsung 950. __________________ Go 24

07-24-08, 10:38 PM	#2 \| Link
chevydude26 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 215	a little early don't you think? but man this is going to be a battle...samsung won the last battle with the 6&7 series lcd's

07-24-08, 11:31 PM	#3 \| Link
MonkeyMafia Join Date: Jan 1998 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: new york, NY USA Posts: 740	Well, I've really studied the Sammy A950 now... seen it twice, and spent over an hour each time with it, looking at it from all angles with all sorts of source material being played. I posted many pictures and videos of it in the other thread. I will see if the SonyStyle store in Midtown has the XBR8 on display. If so, I will again spend hours in front of it... too bad I can't do a side by side, but this will be the closest thing. Luckily, I live right around the block from both the Samsung Experience and SonyStyle store, so I'll give my impressions as soon as I can. Cheers!

07-25-08, 01:55 PM	#6 \| Link
MonkeyMafia Join Date: Jan 1998 Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: new york, NY USA Posts: 740	Hey JamE55, you're not the same person from mbworld.org are you? just curious...

07-25-08, 06:59 PM	#8 \| Link
jxphillips Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 19	Nice time to start this thread as I'm sure it's going to be a great discussion for the coming weeks and months. One question I have - and it's been discussed in some of the other threads for these models - is how the RGB LED setup in the Sony will differ from White LED setup in the Samsung (assuming it is using a similar approach as the 81 series). Specifically, does this mean that Sony will not be incorporating a Color Filter in the XBR8 since the RGB source can essentially create the entire visible color spectrum? If so, what advantages if any could this give the XBR8 over the 950? Thanks in advance for your thoughts

07-25-08, 09:16 PM	#12 \| Link
jxphillips Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 19	Very interesting article. So if I understand: Let's say we have one white LED (at 1W to keep it simple). To show a green frame, the LED will be using 1W and the light will be filtered to extract only the green color. The rest of the light will be wasted as heat. For RGB LED's, the cluster of 1W may only need to turn on the green LED component. So again to keep it easy, it would only use 1/3W for the same green frame. All of this assumes no dimming BTW. But it's seems to me that RBG can pontentially provide not only better contrast, color gamut, and power consumption, but it may also allow for much "finer" dimming control. One more thing... I never really thought through how the dimming algorithm works until I read through the article. Since LCD's can be transitioned from opaque to transparent (think digital - open or closed) and the light source can be independently dimmed (almost like an analog signal), there appear to be endless combinations of dimming techniques. You could almost envision a future in which the LCD pixels would stay open (transparent) and the picture would be controlled completely by the backlight. Hmmm...

07-26-08, 12:10 PM	#13 \| Link
KLee AVS Special Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,368	RGB LEDs should consume less watts in theory Problem is, the Sim2/Dolbyvision prototype (which uses RGB LEDs) consumes 2Kwatts and the Brightside RGB LED prototypes were ALSO very Watt hungry as well: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=916868

07-26-08, 12:57 PM	#14 \| Link
chevydude26 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 215	i'm thinking that perhaps the rgb led from the xbr8's might give sony's the slight edge over the a950... both tv's will be phenomenal but my guess is that the sony might slightly get the edge over the samsung this time because of the rgb factor...but i know nothing about the intracacies of what makes a picture good considering i'm sure there are way more factors than just what the l.e.d is this is a pretty exciting match-up

07-26-08, 01:01 PM	#16 \| Link
agustus Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 158	The other thing that might give Sony the edge is a matte screen. The xbr8 is coming with a matte screen right?

07-26-08, 02:25 PM	#21 \| Link
kazm899 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 339	I wonder if these sets will be able to handle motion well....

07-26-08, 02:58 PM	#25 \| Link
jxphillips Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 19	I seem to remember reading that the Sim2 / Dolby Vision TV used White LED's. RGB was to come at a later time. Based on the info in these forums, it looks like the 46" XBR8 will be about $700 more than the 950. But the 55" prices may be more in line (about $300 more for the Sony). We'll know more once Sony releases their prices.

07-26-08, 05:58 PM	#30 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
slumpey326 AVS Special Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: New York Posts: 1,486	samsung experience has the 950 on display in nyc, pretty impressive.