Magnavox H2160MW9 with 160GB HDD - Virtual Clone of Philips 3576H?

[wajo]

Magnavox H2080MW8 with 80GB HDD and H2160MW9 with 160GB HDD - Virtual Clones of Philips 3575/3576

Special Note on 2160A: The previously reported FW bug in the new 2160A for 2009 HAS BEEN KILLED! I found a way to work around that bug: set the 2160A's Source to L3 (DV) input and Finalize, Format or Erase away! It would still be nice to see a FW update from Funai!

Below is a picture of the Magnavox H2160MW9 (2080 identical) but it doesn't even come close to doing it justice! It's a really nice looking machine... best-looking DVDR in my stack of Pio 640, 3575 and 2160... a "yawn" for those but a "wow" for the 2160. This is one of those things you have to see in person to appreciate!



Cllick here for help files on features, setup and operation and links to manuals for these Magnavox HDD DVDRs.

Good news for multiple-unit seekers or users!
The remote controls for the 3575/3576 and 2080/2160 operate only their designated unit! So, for people wanting two units side-by-side that operate virtually alike, a 3575/3576 and a 2080/2160 make a great pair!

DVD discs created in a 2080/2160 or 3575/3576 CAN be used in the other if you set "Make Recording Compatible" to ON in the Recording menu of both units. See Option 1 in this post for info.

Following is a comparison of the "noteworthy" features of the different models:

Item	3575/3576	2160
Color	3575 Black/Silver, 3576 Black	Black (and sleeker)
Rec Hours	33-198	30-180
Menus	Black on light grey	Rev. white on dark bkgnd (easier to read)
Remote	47 buttons, diff. sizes	47, same sizes, same functions, see pic here (L-R=3576/2080/2160).
FP Buttons	On/Off, Open/Close Tray, Play, Stop, Rec, HDD Active LED	Adds ch. up/dn buttons but no HDD LED.
Back Inputs	Coax, YWR Composite, S-Vid	Coax, YWR Composite, S-Vid
Front Inputs	YWR Composite, USB, DV	YWR Composite, DV, 2nd S-Vid (no USB)
Dig. Audio	Coax and optical	Coax (no optical)
Dig. SS Meter	No	Yes
Dig. CC	Display but no record	Display and record (embeds in video/pic)
PLTV	Std pause/play but no save to HDD	6-hour constant bkgrd buffer w/save to HDD (can't turn off)
AutoClock	Searches only analog channels	Searches analog and digital channels
STOP Button	Double-press can Stop a rec	Must hold Stop 2 sec on 2160 plus Yes/No dialog added on 2160A
HS Dub 2-hr-SP	4X burner, ~34 min.	8X burner, ~17 min.
Editing	Divide, Delete, Chapter, Index Pic (DVD), Title Naming	Same, adds chapter bar to time counter for graphic positional awarness
MP3 Play	Yes, on CD-R/RW	Yes, on CD-R/RW or DVD
DivX/WMA Play	Yes	No
HDMI Control	No	Yes, 2160A only. Turns compatible TV on and auto-sets input to HDMI on power-on or pressing DVDR op key. Also turns both units off sequentially or both at once.
HDD	160GB Seagate IDE/PATA*	160GB Hitachi Deskstar PATA (2160) or SATA (2160A)*

*All can be easily replaced or upgraded to larger storage capacities, as described here. SATA can be sub'd for PATA using an adapter. An interesting section of a Wiki article on HDD "Disk failures and their metrics" caught my attention as it relates to the Hitachi Deskstar HDDs used in the Mag 2160:

"A 2007 study published by Google suggested very little correlation between failure rates and either high temperature or activity level; however, the correlation between manufacturer/model and failure rate was relatively strong. Statistics in this matter is kept highly secret by most entities. Google did not publish the manufacturer's names along with their respective failure rates, though they have since revealed that they use Hitachi Deskstar drives in some of their servers."

Google has statistics they won't/can't reveal on HDD failure rates, and they chose Hitachi Deskstar for some of their servers... maybe a deceptively decent recommendation!?

Notice: The 3575, 3576, 2080 and original 2160 all use HDDs with a PATA (parallel) interface, the "old standard" that's getting hard to find and being replaced with the SATA (serial) interface, which are readily available today. SATA HDDs can be used in those prior models with a readily available SATA adapter. Update: one user reports here that the Mag 2160A for 2009 has a SATA HDD interface making replacement or upgrade even easier!

Special Notes on the Magnavox H2080MW8

The Mag 2080, released in 2007, is the predecessor to the 2160. Virtually same manual and ops as the 3576 but sucky remote. Better-designed 2160 remote can be used. One original HDD installed is ST380215ACE, same Seagate HDD model series as 3576, and it can be replaced or upgraded in the same way as the 3576/2160.

The following 2160 features are missing on the 2080:

1. No HDMI out.
2. No DV input.
3. No digital clock set (assuming, since it pre-dates 3576)?
4. No digital CC recording.
5. No Autorecord buffering.
6. Not sure on STOP button requiring 2-sec press to stop a timer rec?

The 80GB HDD in the 2080 can be easily upgraded to a max. 500GB, as described in the link given above, last item in the list. The 2080 has the same power supply as the 3575/3576 and the 2160.

Pics from the 2160 manual are shown below.






Below are comparison pics of the 3575 insides taken by Dartman and the H2160 insides taken by hugemoth. Only differences I can readily see are the HDD and the USB PCB in front of the HDD in the 3575 pic, missing in the H2160 (no USB port).

Philips 3575H


Magnavox 2160


Magnavox 2160 HDD

Click for list of help files.

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[hugemoth]

Too bad about the lost data. Here's a pic of the hard drive label and the whole unit with the top off.




Q

[ti-triodes]

Originally Posted by hugemoth

Too bad about the lost data. Here's a pic of the hard drive label and the whole unit with the top off.




Q

Looks like you just voided your warranty!

[hugemoth]

Wasn't really worried about that but the sticker was only stuck to the top cover and didn't stick to the back panel. I guess the Chinese factory worker needs to do some thumb strengthening exercises.

Q

Originally Posted by ti-triodes

Looks like you just voided your warranty!

[jay427]

Looks good all, thanks for recreating the thread.

I had the Phillips unit about a year ago and brought it back to Wally World because the picture looked kinda dark. Anybody have any idea how this unit would compare to the Phillips in regards to the darker picture.

Being that there is just not a whole lot around for HDTV recording for OTA I may have to give this one a whirl.

Just wish it had 2 tunners but for that price I could buy 2 I guess

Thanks again

Jay

[Kelson]

Originally Posted by jay427

Being that there is just not a whole lot around for HDTV recording for OTA I may have to give this one a whirl.

Just wish it had 2 tunners but for that price I could buy 2 I guess

If you are willing to spend that much and buy 2 recorders, why not just buy a TiVo HD with lifetime subscription. Then you get 2 tuners, a fully integrated guide for one-touch recording and it records/playsback in HD.

[rickie]

I'd also be curious about whether they addressed the issue with the dark picture when recording from the tuner.

I looked through the manual, and I see that they do have menu choises for colr space (RGB or YCbR) and for regular or enhanced black on the RGB side. Although I beleive for both the Philips and the 80 GB man, the issue was how it was handling the tuner black level.

Thanks,
Rick

[Rammitinski]

Originally Posted by rickie

I'd also be curious about whether they addressed the issue with the dark picture when recording from the tuner.

And the occasional dropped timer recordings problem, and the clock suddenly being off by two hours, and the dropped channels when using the QAM tuner.

If they've fixed all of those problems from the last model, I might even buy one myself - although it'd be nice if they improved the general PQ from the digital tuner, too.

[hugemoth]

No dark picture problem on my Sharp LCD TV, HDMI.
No problem with the clock.
No dropped channels.
PQ through tuner is as good as the TV tuner.

Mine is used for OTA DTV only and I've only had it a few days.

Q

Originally Posted by Rammitinski

And the occasional dropped timer recordings problem, and the clock suddenly being off by two hours, and the dropped channels when using the QAM tuner.

If they've fixed all of those problems from the last model, I might even buy one myself - although it'd be nice if they improved the general PQ from the digital tuner, too.

[ti-triodes]

The remote is a HUGE improvement over remote for the 80g unit, which was absolutely useless. I wonder if it's usable for both units.

[rickie]

I was tqalking with a friend about this model, and they were getting ready to order the Philips 3576 model. When I asked why, they said they wanted the upconversion feature in the 3576.

So I told them I thought the Magnavox would also do upconverting. But looking on the WalMart site, didn't find any indication that this was a feature (of course, it also doesnt mention the HDMI out). So I checked this thread, and downloaded the manual. ANd while I found the reference to Output signal of the HDMI connection - no where in the Manual does it mention upconverting. I see that repeated pressing of the button will cycle through different modes. But is this only work for the digital tuner? or does it also affect DVD and HardDisk playback?

So, my question is, does this unit upconvert DVD output - I guess my question does it have the signal processing chip to upconvert playback from HDD and/or DVD's?

Thanks,
Rick

[wajo]

Since the manual and ops are identical to the 3576, the Maggy H2160 should also "upconvert" to the four HDMI "output modes" listed on pg 1. Apparently, they don't use the word "upconvert" in either model's manual.

So, it should output the 4 HDMI modes of whatever signal it's sending via HDMI. My LCD TVs show me what mode thy're receiving and I've seen the "upconverted" modes for DVDs, live TV and HDD titles.

[hugemoth]

WAJO is correct. It does upconvert from DVD and HD.

Q

[rickie]

Originally Posted by wajo

Since the manual and ops are identical to the 3576, the Maggy H2160 should also "upconvert" to the four HDMI "output modes" listed on pg 1. Apparently, they don't use the word "upconvert" in either model's manual.

So, it should output the 4 HDMI modes of whatever signal it's sending via HDMI. My LCD TVs show me what mode thy're receiving and I've seen the "upconverted" modes for DVDs, live TV and HDD titles.

Thats kinda my take on it as well. Though it seems a bit vague.

Thanks!
Rick

[CitiBear]

Given Phillips recent announcement it would be dropping DVD/HDD recorders from its lineup "after the next model refresh", I have to wonder if this Magnavox is perhaps an early version of the Phillips "model refresh"? Assuming the reports on this thread are correct and various niggling problems have been addressed by this Magnavox upgrade, perhaps the next Phillips will simply be this Magnavox with a 250GB HD or some other minor distinguishing feature?

Especially for the price, this seems like a very cool unit. I re-sold my Phillips 3576 because I found I used my Pioneers way more often, but I've been regretting it after seeing the disappointing external ATSC boxes that have come out so far. I kinda want to have at least *one* DVD/HDD unit with integrated ATSC tuner/timer before they disappear from the market. So if any of you reading this thread picks up the new Magnavox, by all means please post every minute detail of your experiences- desperate minds want to know!

[rickie]

Originally Posted by hugemoth

WAJO is correct. It does upconvert from DVD and HD.

Q

OK - thanks
Rick

[Rammitinski]

Originally Posted by CitiBear

So if any of you reading this thread picks up the new Magnavox, by all means please post every minute detail of your experiences- desperate minds want to know!

I'm thinking about it. I figure I can just return it to the WM store 2 blocks away from me if I don't like it.

I'm not promising anything, since I don't really need it, and my E85H/RDR-HX900/CM-7000 setup works great as it is (I don't have cable, which is unfortunate, as the QAM tuner would be the most important thing needing testing here), but I'll certainly report everything I'm able to here if I do decide to get it.

One question - for what reasons are you so disappointed with all of the CECB boxes? I've tried the Zenith, Channel Master and Pal so far, and the first two are excellent. The Zinwell also has timers that actually seem to work that can be integrated with an old recorder well. And any old recorder with an IR blaster will control the CM with a very common Pioneer cable box code. The Pal works with older recorders too, but even though the guide is tops, the PQ is nowhere near as good as those first two I mentioned (the CM's guide is very good, also - just not as fancy).

[CitiBear]

Originally Posted by Rammitinski

One question - for what reasons are you so disappointed with all of the CECB boxes?

I was kind of hoping they would all include at least a 4 or 8 event program timer, but only the DTVpal seems to have multi-event programming and as you say its PQ is nothing to get excited about. For years now I've had to set my cable box timer along with my DVD recorder timer, so I'm used to setting two separate devices for each recording and was expecting this would carry over with the ATSC boxes. The ones released so far are mainly targeting "real-time" television conversion at prices attractive to coupon users: I guess the more elaborate converters aimed at recorder owners may not show up until February, if ever. I have always had trouble with IR blasters and would rather not have to go back to that method, I'd rather set hardware timers.

[Rammitinski]

Originally Posted by CitiBear

I was kind of hoping they would all include at least a 4 or 8 event program timer, but only the DTVpal seems to have multi-event programming..

The Pal has like 5 event timers - the new Zinwell has I think at least 6. At least one person said the PQ was good, but that's only one person, and a lot of people still say the Pal's PQ is good.

Using the IR blaster with my E85H and my CM-7000 I have no problems whatsoever. It works flawlessly everytime. The only caveat is that it can't change to the subchannels under 10.1 (but I have none here I'm interested in anyway - they're all weather subs).

[Arkyman]

Originally Posted by CitiBear

Given Phillips recent announcement it would be dropping DVD/HDD recorders from its lineup "after the next model refresh", I have to wonder if this Magnavox is perhaps an early version of the Phillips "model refresh"? Assuming the reports on this thread are correct and various niggling problems have been addressed by this Magnavox upgrade, perhaps the next Phillips will simply be this Magnavox with a 250GB HD or some other minor distinguishing feature?

Especially for the price, this seems like a very cool unit. I re-sold my Phillips 3576 because I found I used my Pioneers way more often, but I've been regretting it after seeing the disappointing external ATSC boxes that have come out so far. I kinda want to have at least *one* DVD/HDD unit with integrated ATSC tuner/timer before they disappear from the market. So if any of you reading this thread picks up the new Magnavox, by all means please post every minute detail of your experiences- desperate minds want to know!

I purchased the 3576H last week. Hooked it up last night, was happy until I found it does not have a live auto buffer. My old HDRW720p/17 (120GB HDD version) has the 6 hour time shift buffer. I've grown used to having and cannot accept the failure of this 3576H to meet my standards. I just ordered the New Magnavox H2160MW9 from Walmart. It has the auto time shift buffer like my old 720p. I'm disappointed that the 3576H didnt turn out as I had planned, but not all is lost. I can put it in my kids room and they can record their cartoons and shows on it, it will get used

[Kelson]

Originally Posted by Rammitinski

I'm thinking about it. I figure I can just return it to the WM store 2 blocks away from me if I don't like it.

The real question is black level and ATSC PQ on a big display (I believe you have a Pioneer plasma). I'm pretty happy with the Zenith DTT900 PQ running through my E-85 into my 50" plasma and no black level issues. If the Magnavox can at least put up a picture that I can watch without cringing, I would probably take a chance on one for exclusive time-shifting -- I have an extra component input on the plasma that's sitting empty. The price is low enough for experimentation, the return policy is good enough and I'm really starting to doubt the TR-50 will ever make it to market.

When you had the 3575 running off OTA, did you ever hook it to your Pioneer. Was the PQ as soft as the DTVPal.

[Rammitinski]

Originally Posted by Kelson

When you had the 3575 running off OTA, did you ever hook it to your Pioneer. Was the PQ as soft as the DTVPal.

Yeah, at least as bad, if not worse. At least with the Pal, if you turn the sharpness way up it actually does look decent on the HD material (on the Pio, that is). Not so much with the others, IMO. But I would use the Maggie on the 32" 480i analog anyway. The Maggie/Philips actually looked a bit better than the Pal does on that. For some reason, I can't get the Pal to look very acceptable on the CRT no matter what I try, so it's kind of an opposite situation. Better processing through the Pio's composite inputs, I would assume.

Like I said, I'm more than satisfied with the PQ and performance of the E85H and CM-7000 setup, but I'm just curious if it's any better than the older models, even though I basically liked the Maggie a lot, except for the PQ and a couple of bugs the one I had exhibited.

So, in my overall opinion, I would say that if the new model's PQ isn't improved from the old one's and the Philips', you'd be better off using what you've already got (or the CM-7000, to use with the IR blaster). That is, if you're planning on using it with the 50" Panny.

[Kelson]

Originally Posted by Rammitinski

So, in my overall opinion, I would say that if the new model's PQ isn't improved from the old one's and the Philips', you'd be better off using what you've already got (or the CM-7000, to use with the IR blaster). That is, if you're planning on using it with the 50" Panny.

That's pretty much where I'm at. Although I would prefer not to buy anything before 2/09 to see what shakes out of the trees, the new season is starting and we've come to depend heavily on the E-85 for time-shifting. However, the sad truth is the PQ of my once-wonderful analog DVDR now makes me shudder when viewed on the plasma. I would just like to see an evaluation of the Magnavox before I buy a CM-7000 for the E-85. Just wish the price would come down a bit. Without coupon the CM-7000 is going to cost me ~$80 (with S/H) from any retailer I've seen.

[Rammitinski]

Originally Posted by Kelson

I would just like to see an evaluation of the Magnavox before I buy a CM-7000 for the E-85.

Yeah, me too. Unless the sales really pick up, I'm not going to depend on a few here that say "It looks great". Too many posts around here saying that the Philips "looks fantastic". Depends on what you're watching it on and how picky you are, I guess.

That's why I've been tempted to try it myself, even though I really don't need it - because the reviews haven't been coming in at a rate I was hoping. Seems people only think there's a Philips model available, but they're not even aware about this one so far. Which is a shame, because it looks like it could have the potential to actually be a bit better, at least for some people.

Maybe we just need to keep bumping the thread up regularly.

[Kelson]

Originally Posted by Rammitinski

Maybe we just need to keep bumping the thread up regularly.

And start recommending the Magnavox to people looking.

[Arkyman]

I just got my new 2160 today. Have not installed it yet. Have to finish watching a few recorded programs on the Philips 3576H before I move it to the kids room. The 2160 does indeed upscale all the way to 1080p for Tv's that are compatible. Few things I noticed right out of the box. Front panels are considerably different sytles, button size and arrangement, that type of stuff, mostly cosmetic. This model also has the awesome 6hr time shift buffer allowing you to manipulate live tv without actually recording it to the hard drive, a big Plus in my book. The 3576 has both optical and coaxial audio outputs while the H2160 only has a coaxial output for digital audio. It makes me no difference, my Yamaha RX-V2600 has plenty of ports for both types. The H2160's remote control is much "higher end" looking than the 3576H which looks pretty cheap. But honestly, it doesnt matter what a remote looks like as long as its functionality is good, its just a difference I noticed. I also tried the 3576H with DVD's to see how it upscaled a standard 480p disc. I watched the New Rambo movie. These HDD/DVD player recorders upscale the standard movies just as well as my Toshiba HD-A20 player does. Because of this I've taken my A20 out of the loop. I also tried component vs HDMI and the upscaled version does produce a better picture than the 4800p limited component output. I'll report more later as I get the new H2160 hooked up. I would have been happy with the 3576 if it had Auto recording and the 6hr time shift buffer. It does record and playback very nicely.

[doswonk1]

Originally Posted by Arkyman

This model also has the awesome 6hr time shift buffer allowing you to manipulate live tv without actually recording it to the hard drive, a big Plus in my book.

I'm thinkin' if it's recording a whopping 6 hours' worth of material, it must be dropping something on the HDD. May not show up in the title list, but it's gotta be there.....

Sounds promising. Please give us a full report after you've played with it more and lived with it for a while.

[Arkyman]

Originally Posted by doswonk1

I'm thinkin' if it's recording a whopping 6 hours' worth of material, it must be dropping something on the HDD. May not show up in the title list, but it's gotta be there.....

Sounds promising. Please give us a full report after you've played with it more and lived with it for a while.

Yes, it uses part of the hard drive for the buffer. However, only 6hrs of recording is the limit. IF you record in HQ, the highest playback quality, the HDD starts out with 30 hrs, this is for stored titles to the HDD.

HQ - 30hrs
SP - 60hrs
SPP - 75hrs
LP - 90hrs
EP - 120hrs
SLP - 180hrs

[Kelson]

Originally Posted by Arkyman

I just got my new 2160 today. Have not installed it yet. Have to finish watching a few recorded programs on the Philips 3576H before I move it to the kids room.

What kind of display are you running this on (brand, size and resolution).

--------------
#3000

[Arkyman]

Originally Posted by Kelson

What kind of display are you running this on (brand, size and resolution).

--------------
#3000

Sony SXRD 60a2020 1080p, running HDMI from the HDD to the tv. Run the directv box into the HDD via S-vid, it upconverts to the tv. Does and excellent job. I just checked the Rambo DVD on it. Looks as good as my Toshiba HD-A20 DVD Player. Toyed with the time shift buffer some, works pretty much like my older Philips HDRW720p/17 did. I like the time shift buffer, its very very handy, I use it a lot with sports.