The Official AVS HDTV Recording Synopsis - Fall 2009!

[Ken H]

The Basics
HDTV can be recorded in these ways:

· HDTV DVR from Cable, DBS, DTV Over-The-Air
· DTV Tuner PC / Mac Cards, and USB DTV Tuners
· Blu-ray burner
· Component video & optical audio to PC
· HD Camcorder
· Firewire Source to PC, Mac
· Firewire Source to D-VHS
· Set-Top-Box USB Source to PC

....from these potential sources:
· Digital Television (DTV) Over-The-Air
· Direct Broadcast Satellite (DBS)
· Digital Cable
· IPTV
· Fiber
· C/Ku Band Satellite
· Live to video


HDTV DVR
See the many unit specific topics in this forum for details.

Cable:
· Cisco (Scientific Atlanta)
· Motorola
· Pace
· Panasonic
· Samsung
· Etc.
· TiVo HD $299 plus subscription fee, available for retail purchase. (CableCARD)
· TiVo HD XL $599 plus subscription fee, available for retail purchase. (CableCARD)
· Moxi HD DVR $799, available for retail purchase. (CableCARD)

Discontinued
· Sony DHG-HDD 250 or 500, available for retail purchase. (CableCARD)

DBS:
· Dish Network (& DTV) HD DVR MPEG4 compatible
ViP 612
ViP 622
ViP 722
ViP 211 (w/ addition of hard drive)

· DirecTV HD (& DTV w/ addition of AM-21) DVR MPEG4 compatible
HR21
HR22
HR23

DTV Over-The-Air:
· Dish DTVPal DVR TR-50 $299
· TiVo HD $299 plus subscription fee
· TiVo HD XL $599 plus subscription fee

Discontinued:
· Sony DHG-HDD 250 or 500
· LG LST-3410A
· Zenith HDR230


DTV Tuner PC / Mac Cards, and USB DTV Tuners
Capable of DTV reception and Clear QAM Cable, recording and playback. For in depth discussion of this aspect of HDTV recording, please see the AVS HTPC Forum. For digital tier and premium cable, CableCARD PC's are available.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26


Blu-ray Burner
With a Blu-ray burner installed in your PC, you can make BD disks from a variety of sources, including your HD camcorder. For in depth discussion of this aspect of HDTV recording, please see the AVS HTPC & Blu-Ray Forum for details.


HDTV Camcorder
For in depth discussion of this aspect of HDTV recording, please see the AVS Camcorder Forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=161


Component video & optical audio to PC
Hauppauge's HD PVR will record High-Definition for making real-time H.264 compressed recordings at resolutions up to 1080i. HD-PVR records HD component video and DD optical audio. The recording format is AVCHD, which can be used to burn Blu-ray disks.
http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html


Firewire Source to Microsoft PC
For in depth discussion of this aspect of HDTV recording, please see DVHSTool and other topics in the HDTV Recorders Forum.
PC recording of HDTV is made possible by Microsoft Windows XP & Vista native support for IEEE1394. The PC can be used as both a storage/ retrieval device and a playback device. The PC's peripherals (hard drive, DVD drive) are used to store the HDTV signal that comes from compatible sources. Used as a retrieval device the stored HDTV signal is played back through the IEEE1394 to a display device or other storage / communication device. Used as a playback device, various hardware and software HDTV signal decoders can be used to present HDTV video and audio for viewing.

To use the IEEE1394 interface in WinXP, specific support of the particular model of unit with the IEEE1394 port is required. That is, the presence of a IEEE1394 port doesn't imply compatibility with Windows XP. Various drivers and applications software are required and available to use the JVC and Mitsubishi DVHS decks with Windows XP. For example, even though one "OTA only" model of the Samsung HDTV has IEEE1394, it cannot be used with Windows XP since there are no mating drivers. The 169time equipped DTC100 can be used with Windows XP.


Firewire Source to Apple Mac
A FireWire equipped Apple Mac running Mac OSX 10.5 Leopard can function as an emulated DVHS deck for both recording and playback of OTA HD broadcasts. To accomplish this you will need the demo application VirtualDVHS2 which is included with Apple's Firewire SDK 20. VirtualDVHS2 should work with a variety of devices including most Mitsubishi HDTV's, the Samsung SIR-T165 STB, Mitsubishi HD-2000U and JVC DVHS decks. The FireWire equipped devices control all recording and timer functionality and the Mac simply acts as a DVHS deck. The improved GUI of VirtualDVHS2 simulates the front panel of a DVHS deck including record and playback buttons and a counter. Please note that the VirtualDVHS2 demo is really a refinement of a proof of concept rather than a supported Apple application although some forum members have had good results. Source code is also available so some enterprising developer may be able to wrap a polished GUI around this and ship a commercial product.

An AVS member has developed software, iRecord, using Apple's latest AVCVideoServices framework to record 5C copy-freely content from Motorola and S-A STBs equipped with FireWire. The software allows for timed-recordings and tuning channels.

The FireWire SDK 20 which includes VirtualDVHS2, source code, and other programs such as AVCVideoCap and DVHSCap can be freely downloaded from Apple developer site at the URL below. Be sure to read the readme included with VirtualDVHS2 for configuration info.

FireWire SDK 20

My sincere thanks to AVS members rcliff and jsb_hburg for providing this information.


Firewire sources for HDTV Recording
· Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, Pace - Digital Cable STB's (Cable)
· 169time (DTV & DBS)
After market modification for adding Firewire HD output to specific STB’s.
http://www.169time.com/
Discontinued
· Mitsubishi HD6000 (DTV & Cable)
· MIT MDR-200 (DTV)
· Specific Mitsubishi integrated HDTV’s (DTV)
· Mitsubishi HDTV's w/Promise Module (DTV)
· Specific Hitachi integrated HDTV’s (DTV)
· Samsung SIR-T165 (DTV)
· Key Digital KD-FIRE1080P HD Hanna $2999 (DTV)
http://www.keydigital.com/lprodi.asp?Ic=KDFIRE1080P
· Pioneer Plasma HDTV w/ Media Receiver CableCARD (DTV & Cable)
· Various Firewire equipped HDTV's (DTV)
· Panasonic TU-DST50 & TU-DST51 (DTV)
· Sony DHG-M55CV (Cablevision only)
· Mitsubishi HD5000 (DTV)
· LG LST3410a (DTV)
NOTE: Not all Firewire equipped HDTV's can output HDTV via Firewire. See the manufacturers specifications for details.
Discontinued 8VSB HD Source:
· Dish 5000 w/HD Modulator


Firewire Source to D-VHS
Digital VHS is capable of recording and playing back the full 19+ Mbps data stream of ATSC HDTV broadcasts, including Dolby Digital 5.1 audio. There are different varieties of D-VHS decks, but all are essentially ‘bit buckets’, capable of recording HDTV and playing it back identically to the original broadcast. Typically, an outboard source provided the HDTV signal via Firewire to the D-VHS deck, with only one D-VHS unit having a built-in DTV tuner. This approach also allows for HDTV copies using Firewire recording from D-VHS to D-VHS, D-Theater (prerecorded movies) excepted.
Discontinued:
· Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U $749 ($549)
· Mitsubishi HS-HD1100U $549 ($395)
· JVC HM-DH40000 $999 ($537, D-Theater, component video)
· Marantz MV 8300 $1599 ($999, D-Theater, component video)
· JVC SR-VD400US (Pro D-Theater)
· JVC SR-VDA300US (Pro D-Theater Master Deck)
· JVC HM-DH5U $799 (HDMI, D-Theater)
· JVC HM-DT100U $1499 (HDMI, DTV (ATSC) tuner, D-Theater)
· Marantz MV8300 $1099 (Same as JVC HM-DH40000)
· Panasonic PV-HD1000
· JVC HM-DH30000


Set-Top-Box USB Source to PC
· Nextcom R5000-HD
After market modification for adding USB HD output to specific HD STB’s.
http://www.nextcomwireless.com/r5000/home.htm

[bfdtv]

The following table compares the three dual-tuner HDTV DVRs available for purchase in the United States. There are no other options in this category, aside from those DVRs leased by the cable/satellite providers.

The Magnavox H2160 SD recorder is included for comparison.

		Magnavox H2160	DTVPal DVR	TivoHD	Moxi	Moxi v2 TRIPLE TUNER
		SD Recorder	HD Recorder	HD Recorder	HD Recorder	HD Recorder
PRICE
	Price online	$229	$300	$229	$499	$799 (Includes a HD extender)
	DVR subscription	None	None	$129/year or $330-$399 lifetime	Included	Included
	Total upfront cost without any future fees	$229	$300	$560 - $630	$499	$799
TUNERS
	Tuners for off-air antenna (ATSC / OTA)	1	2	2	None	None
	Tuners for digital cable (QAM)	1	None	2	2	3
	Tuners for analog cable (NTSC)	1	None	2	Costs extra (1x analog adds $129)	Costs extra (1x analog adds $129)
	Separate coax inputs for antenna and cable			X
	Supports encrypted digital channels on cable with a CableCard			X	X	X
	Supports SDV channels with cable company's SDV adapter			X	X	X
BASIC
	Program guide		X	X	X	X
	High-definition output		X	X	X	X
	Number of channels can record simultaneously	1	2	2	2 (3 with $129 analog dongle)	3 (Max of 2 tuners w/ Cisco SDV)
	Buffer time for liveTV	6 hours SD	1 hour HD (No buffer on 2nd tuner)	1 hour HD (30 minutes per tuner)	6 hours HD (3 hours per tuner)	6 hours HD (3 hours for last 2 tuners)
	Recorded programs are listed with program title		X	X	X	X
	Pause, instant replay, and rewind on liveTV	X	X	X	X	X
	Record one channel while you watch another live		X	X	X	X
	Record one HD channel downrezzed to SD while you watch a previously recorded show in SD	X
	Record two different HD channels, while you watch a previously recorded HD show		X	X	X	X
	Record three different HD channels, while you watch a previously recorded HD show					X
	Pause, replay, 30sec skip, slow mo, and multiple speeds of FF and RW	X	X	X	X	X
	Skip-to-tick or comparable function (i.e. skip 15 minutes at a time)			X	X	X
	Progress bar (on trickplay) shows current position in video	X	X	X	X	X
	Dual live buffers (i.e. saves pause position and video on inactive tuner)			X	(Does not save position)	(Does not save position)
	Remembers where you left off in every recording	X	X	X	X	X
	Conflict management (i.e. ability to skip a scheduled recording to record something new)			X	X	X
	Set default settings for every new series recording				(Coming in Fall update)	(Coming in Fall update)
	Record programs it thinks you will like using un-used space (can be disabled)			X
	Closed captions on recordings	(Analog only)	X	X	X	X
RECORD
	Records HD at 100% original quality	(Only records in SD)	X	X	X	X
	Records all programs using VCR-like timers (ex: every Monday from 8:00-8:30pm)	X	X	(User option)
	Records and tracks programs by their name			X	X	X
	Ability to record only new episodes and ignore repeats			X	X	X
	Automatically adjusts record schedule when programs change their days, times, and/or lengths			X	X	X
	Series manager to prioritize what two programs are recorded when 3+ programs conflict			X	X	X
	Automatic rescheduling so programs missed due to conflicts are recorded the next time they air			X	X	X
	Overlap protection to eliminate conflicts when three or more programs overlap by up to five minutes			X
	Keeps record of recorded programs to prevent same program from recording again after it is deleted			X
	Automatically deletes oldest recording (not set "keep until I delete") when space needed for new recording		X	X	X	X
	Start recordings early or end late		X	X	X	X
	Keep only the last X episodes of a show			X	X	X
	Keep recording until I delete or until space is needed		X	X	X	X
GUIDE
	Create recording from program guide selection		X	X	X	X
	Guide filters and favorites			X	X	X
	Delete individual channels from guide		X	X	X	X
	Days of program information	None	8 days on many channels (Check availability)	14 days on all channels	14 days on all channels	14 days on all channels
	Comprehensive program information available on all channels in all markets			X	X	X
	Detailed episode information and original airdate; distinguishes between new and repeat episodes			X	X	X
	Program information on unencrypted digital cable (ClearQAM) channels without a CableCard			(Requires CableCard)	X	X
	Downloads guide data without an Internet connection (wired or wireless) or phone line		X	(Requires Internet or phone)	(Requires Internet)	(Requires Internet)
	Integrates off-air and cable channels into a single guide		N/A	X	N/A	N/A
	Maximum number of 30min timeslots shown on guide screen		6 in grid	3 in grid, 8 in TiVo-style	6 in grid, 4 in Moxi-style	6 in grid, 4 in Moxi-style
	Guide data available for past timeslots			X
SEARCH
	Search program titles and descriptions		X	X	X	X
	Record a single program found with search		X	X	X	X
	Search program titles, descriptions, actors, directors, and categories with boolean operators (AND/OR/NOT)			X
	Automatically record all future programs matching a saved search			X
DVR UI
	High-definition user interface		(Upconverted SD)	(Upconverted SD on HD background)	X	X
	Single-click delete			X
	Deleted Items folder with recording undelete			X
	Number of programs shown on recorded list screen	?	6	8	10	10
	Recorded list shows name of every recording		X	X	X	X
	Recorded list shows date of every recording			X	X	X
	Recorded list can be sorted by name, date, or grouped		X	X		(Name+Grouped only)
	Program groups (folders) can be sorted by name or date		(Name only)	X	(Name only)	(Name only)
	Inside program groups (folders), recordings are sorted by recorded date			X	X	X
	Inside program groups (folders), episode names are listed			X	X	X
	Record schedule shows names of upcoming programs			X	X	X
	Recorded history shows why programs didn't record		(Limited)	X
	Free disk space estimate	X	X	(Recently Deleted)	X	X
	No advertising of any kind	X	X	main menu, pause (hidable)	X	X
STORAGE
	Built-in capacity	160GB	250GB	160GB (1TB on XL)	500 GB	500 GB
	Supports external drive expansion			Up to 1TB	Up to 6 TB w/ RAID	Up to 6 TB w/ RAID
	Allows internal hard drive upgrades	X	X	X	?	?
TRANSFER
	Allows download/transfer of HD and SD recorded files to a computer			X
	Software to download favorite series and convert them for portable device (ex: iPhone)			X
	Allows transfer of PC videos to DVR for viewing			X
	Allows streaming of PC videos to DVR for viewing				X	X
MULTIROOM
	Stream recordings to a DVR in another room				X	X
	Transfer recordings to a DVR in another room			X
	Recordings can be viewed in another room as they are streamed or transferred			X	X	X
	Multi-room viewing works with copy protected (CCI 0x02) recordings				X	X
	Pause a recording in one room and resume it on a another DVR or extender			DVRs only	DVR or extender	DVR or extender
	Set-top extenders available that can access all HD recordings in another room				$299 per extender (Max of 2 extenders)	One extender included (Second extender for $299)
	Set-top extenders can view liveTV, EPG, and schedule recordings using one of DVR's tuners				(Coming in Fall update)	(Coming in Fall update)
ONLINE
	Connects to Internet time server each night to set clock			X	X	X
	Download software updates using ethernet connection		X	X	X	X
	Remote scheduling via the web and mobile phone			X	X	X
	Real-time conflict management for remote scheduling				X	X
	Edit and/or delete scheduled recordings online				X	X
	View list of recorded programs and upcoming / scheduled recordings online			X	X	X
	Subscribe to specific RSS video feeds and podcasts (i.e. so they automatically download when available)			X
	Support for Amazon's "TV Passes" (i.e. purchase a cable series and new episodes are downloaded in HD)			X
	Support for Netflix SD/HD streaming			X	Netflix SD Only (Requires third-party Windows software)	Netflix SD Only (Requires third-party Windows software)
OUTPUT
	High-definition output through HDMI and component?	No - SD only	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
	HDMI / Component / S-Video / Composite ?	Yes /Yes/Yes/Yes	Yes/Yes/No/Yes	Yes/Yes/Yes/Yes	Yes/Yes/Yes/Yes	Yes/Yes/Yes/Yes
	All SD and HD outputs active simultaneously		X	X	X	X
	Native output mode to output all video as is without conversion			X	X	X
	Downconverts HD video to SD over s-video and composite connections for non-HDTVs	X	(Composite only)	X	X	X
	Allows 16:9 anamorphic output through SD connections	X	X	X
	Coax passthrough for TV tuner	When box is off	When box is off
OTHER
	Power consumption	33W (in use)	22W	34W	32W (?)	32W (?)
	Supports cable company OnDemand	No	N/A	No	No	No
	Requires phone line? Requires Internet connection? Requires one or the other?	No/No/No	No/No/No	No/No/Yes	No/Yes	No/Yes
	DLNA compliant				X	X
	Built-in DVD writer	X
WARRANTY
	Parts warranty	One year	90 days	One year	One year	One year
	Cost to replace after warranty expires	?	$300	$150	$?	$?
	Cost to transfer lifetime service to a replacement DVR for three years	N/A	N/A	$0	N/A	N/A
	Cost to transfer lifetime service to a replacement DVR after three years	N/A	N/A	$199	N/A	N/A

[Ken H]

Latest update complete.

As always, additions, suggestions, and corrections are welcome.

A sincere thanks to everyone at AVS who has contributed to this topic over the years, in particular AVS member bfdtv.

[videobruce]

Should the Maggy/Funai deck really be included in the list since it only has a SDTV tuner/recorder and since this is a HDTV forum???
It does records a digital channel, but not in HD.

[bfdtv]

Originally Posted by videobruce

Should the Maggy/Funai deck really be included in the list since it only has a SDTV tuner/recorder and since this is a HDTV forum???
It does records a digital channel, but not in HD.

I updated the table with the sub-heading for SD Recorder / HD Recorder.

We see regular posts on the Maggy from new members who think that it supports HD. Many of these members don't understand the difference between actual HD and upconverted SD. I thought adding it to the table might eliminate some confusion.

[videobruce]

Thanks.

We see regular posts on the Maggy from new members who think that it supports HD.

Probably the same ones that think those CECBs' deliver HD.

[bfdtv]

I updated the table to include the latest Moxi announcements.

[qz3fwd]

What about Slingbox's, HDHomeRun network tuners, adding a software section, Hagauppe HD-PVR, and marking discontinued/obsolete hardware?

Speaking of obsolete formats-I just bought a NIB JVC 40K D-VHS deck off Ebay.

Software section should reference minimally-CapDVHS, VRD, H2M, M2R, TSR Pro, TSPE, 1394 Drivers.
Let me think of how to present the info.
A guide to extraction (1394 & TivoDesktop) would be helpfull for newcomers.
Blu-ray recording off the EU/JAP decks would be intresting if anyone has these boxes, though not avaliable in the USA yet (to my knowledge).

Persnally I'm cappping off 1394 & HDHR QAM&ATSC as I type this-6 HD channels.