The Descent - 2 different Blu-ray versions CONFIRMED (MPEG-2 vs AVC encoding)

[kingkong650]

Following on from what I mentioned in a previous post about the difference in colour I noticed between the US MPEG-2 version and the Australian version, I decided to investigate a little bit further, so I went looking for my UK DVD of The Descent, the version where I watched the film for the first time, to see what the colours were like on that version. Once I finally found it under piles of dvds stashed away, what I saw was pretty interesting.

The part where I've really noticed a big difference in colour is just after they arrive at the hole, when they're preparing the ropes and harnesses to go down. The US MPEG-2 version has a strong blue tint while the Australian release's colours are more natural looking and also seem a little brighter. When Juno goes down the hole and looks up, in the US version the light streaming through the hole looks white and the reflection on her face is tinted blue, while in the Australian version, the light streaming down is more golden and the reflected light on her face reflects that.

When I put the UK DVD in and jumped to the same bit in the film, the colours were very similar to the Australian version, with the light looking golden rather than white and no sign of the blue tint of the US release. It's bizarre that they released different colour schemes for this film. Makes me wonder which one the director considers the definative version?

[Whiggles]

Originally Posted by kingkong650

Following on from what I mentioned in a previous post about the difference in colour I noticed between the US MPEG-2 version and the Australian version, I decided to investigate a little bit further, so I went looking for my UK DVD of The Descent, the version where I watched the film for the first time, to see what the colours were like on that version. Once I finally found it under piles of dvds stashed away, what I saw was pretty interesting.

The part where I've really noticed a big difference in colour is just after they arrive at the hole, when they're preparing the ropes and harnesses to go down. The US MPEG-2 version has a strong blue tint while the Australian release's colours are more natural looking and also seem a little brighter. When Juno goes down the hole and looks up, in the US version the light streaming through the hole looks white and the reflection on her face is tinted blue, while in the Australian version, the light streaming down is more golden and the reflected light on her face reflects that.

When I put the UK DVD in and jumped to the same bit in the film, the colours were very similar to the Australian version, with the light looking golden rather than white and no sign of the blue tint of the US release. It's bizarre that they released different colour schemes for this film. Makes me wonder which one the director considers the definative version?

I immediately noticed this when I upgraded from my UK DVD to the US BD. It does look as if two completely different colour grades were prepared. Part of me actually prefers the palette used for the UK version, so if the Australian BD looks the same as (or similar to) it, I might be tempted to pick up a copy.

There are a couple of comparisons of the different colours in my review of the US BD.

[Blacklac]

Originally Posted by Whiggles

I immediately noticed this when I upgraded from my UK DVD to the US BD. It does look as if two completely different colour grades were prepared. Part of me actually prefers the palette used for the UK version, so if the Australian BD looks the same as (or similar to) it, I might be tempted to pick up a copy.

There are a couple of comparisons of the different colours in my review of the US BD.

Wow, The UK looks more "natural" to me. Do all the cave scenes have that much of a difference? I'd hate to have to quadruple dip on this movie.

[raoul_duke]

Cdwow have already dispatched my order. Brilliant!!

[kingkong650]

Originally Posted by Whiggles

I immediately noticed this when I upgraded from my UK DVD to the US BD. It does look as if two completely different colour grades were prepared. Part of me actually prefers the palette used for the UK version, so if the Australian BD looks the same as (or similar to) it, I might be tempted to pick up a copy.

There are a couple of comparisons of the different colours in my review of the US BD.

Yes, after looking at your two comparison shots and comparing it to the Australian version, it looks like its using the same or at least very similar colour palette to the UK DVD. Example 2 really shows just how pronounced the difference is, though the Australian version is not quite so dark and red, its a little brighter and a little more orange. However it looks totally different to the US Blu-ray.

[PooperScooper]

Originally Posted by Whiggles

I immediately noticed this when I upgraded from my UK DVD to the US BD. It does look as if two completely different colour grades were prepared. Part of me actually prefers the palette used for the UK version, so if the Australian BD looks the same as (or similar to) it, I might be tempted to pick up a copy.

There are a couple of comparisons of the different colours in my review of the US BD.

From looking at your screen shots it looks like a difference in contrast, to me, rather than a difference in actual color(s). I have the R2 SD-DVD and AVC BD. If I think of it sometime, I'll have to check out the two.

larry

[Whiggles]

Originally Posted by PooperScooper

From looking at your screen shots it looks like a difference in contrast, to me, rather than a difference in actual color(s). I have the R2 SD-DVD and AVC BD. If I think of it sometime, I'll have to check out the two.

larry

The contrast is certainly higher on the UK disc, but I'm not convinced that contrast alone could explain the extreme difference in Example 2. The contrast isn't just higher, the colour values have been changed completely to a highly stylised red versus the more naturalistic look on the US BD.

[kingkong650]

Originally Posted by Blacklac

Wow, The UK looks more "natural" to me. Do all the cave scenes have that much of a difference? I'd hate to have to quadruple dip on this movie.

I've been having a look at the cave scenes and comparing AUS and US versions. From what i'm getting, there is more contrast between light and darkness in the AUS version, the lighting also seems more 'natural' to me and less 'flat' in the AUS version. If a red flare is lit and its the only light source, everything should look strongly tinged in red like in the AUS version IMO, unlike the weaker, more even lighting present in the US version. The AUS blu-ray is definately the more colourful of the two. The scenes in the cave also all seem brighter overall in the US BD than the AUS BD (due in part most likely to the added contrast), almost as if there was another lightsource with them in the cave apart from their helmets. I prefer the AUS release, it feels more claustrophobic to me, but that's just my preference.

EDIT:

One thing I forgot to mention before. The added brightness of the US MPEG-2 release in some parts seems to have added grain to the darkness which is quite course (for example when they enter the first cavern and light the red flare). In the AUS release the darkness is just black, without any of that course grain.

To answer your question Blacklac, the cave scenes have a LOT of difference. I'm only now beginning to realise how much. Which 'look' people will prefer is a different matter entirely.

[PooperScooper]

Originally Posted by Whiggles

The contrast is certainly higher on the UK disc, but I'm not convinced that contrast alone could explain the extreme difference in Example 2. The contrast isn't just higher, the colour values have been changed completely to a highly stylised red versus the more naturalistic look on the US BD.

True. I was focused on #1. Looks like a different person on the dials for the disc. It's easy to accept why the real dark scenes would look different because of two different approaches on how to make it look real, etc., given the slim lighting. I didn't think to pull out my discs last night.

larry

[kingkong650]

Yeah, Whiggles is right, its more than just extra contrast. Annoyingly I don't have a blu-ray drive on my pc so I can't take screenshots straight off the AUS version to show you guys but I have been able to do hopefully the next best thing. I've taken Whiggles's AVC shots that he posted earlier in the thread and got the respective shots of the UK DVD which is very similar to the AUS version, only in far less detail. Here they are. I hope they demonstrate better the different 'looks'. The original is the US AVC blu-ray version. Put the mouse over the pic and it will show the UK DVD version.

First comparison

Second comparison

Third comparison

I've put them as attachments as well if those pages decide to act up and don't load up.

[PooperScooper]

Originally Posted by kingkong650

Yeah, Whiggles is right, its more than just extra contrast. Annoyingly I don't have a blu-ray drive on my pc so I can't take screenshots straight off the AUS version to show you guys but I have been able to do hopefully the next best thing. I've taken Whiggles's AVC shots that he posted earlier in the thread and got the respective shots of the UK DVD which is very similar to the AUS version, only in far less detail. Here they are. I hope they demonstrate better the different 'looks'. The original is the US AVC blu-ray version. Put the mouse over the pic and it will show the UK DVD version.

First comparison

Second comparison

I've put them as attachments as well if those pages decide to act up and don't load up.

Big difference. I can live with either, although the "darker" shots add more realism for me.

larry

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by kingkong650

Yeah, Whiggles is right, its more than just extra contrast. Annoyingly I don't have a blu-ray drive on my pc so I can't take screenshots straight off the AUS version to show you guys but I have been able to do hopefully the next best thing. I've taken Whiggles's AVC shots that he posted earlier in the thread and got the respective shots of the UK DVD which is very similar to the AUS version, only in far less detail. Here they are. I hope they demonstrate better the different 'looks'. The original is the US AVC blu-ray version. Put the mouse over the pic and it will show the UK DVD version.

First comparison

Second comparison

I've put them as attachments as well if those pages decide to act up and don't load up.

I don't like the darker UK one. Is the Australian BD the same ?

It just looks wrong to me and i wonder if shadow detail is getting clipped.

Look at the lens flare from the camera on the second clip and the darker edition looks wrong.

[kingkong650]

Originally Posted by FoxyMulder

I don't like the darker UK one. Is the Australian BD the same ?

It just looks wrong to me and i wonder if shadow detail is getting clipped.

Look at the lens flare from the camera on the second clip and the darker edition looks wrong.

The colours are almost the same between the AUS release and the UK DVD. The AUS release however is a touch brighter and retains all the shadow detail as far as I can see (unlike the UK DVD that seems to have lost most if not all of it). I find the PQ of the AUS release very impressive, with grain throughout. Easily superior to the US MPEG-2 release IMO.

[General Kenobi]

I agree with Foxy, the second one is just too dark and seems to lose some shadow detail. I would like to se some direct screen caps from the US AVC and AUS releases. I also don't recall such a yellow/green tint in those scenes as shown with the UK caps but I guess a lot of this thin line stuff could also greatly depend on display and calibration too.

This was actually one of the titles I took into Magnolia to demo a Kuro Elite and I can tell you for sure that there should be no loss of shadow detail from the source, especially based on how glorious it looked on that thing.

[Gareth Flynn]

The bright version begs the question: why do they need lights?

[Ruined]

Grr. CDWOW is out of stock on Descent

[PooperScooper]

I just saw the AUS BD is Region B. Too bad, for me.

larry

[kingkong650]

Originally Posted by PooperScooper

I just saw the AUS BD is Region B. Too bad, for me.

larry

The AUS BD is region free. My ps3 is region A (bought from Hong Kong) so it wouldn't play on it if it wasn't.

[Dave Mack]

where's the best place to order the AUS BD from?

thanks!

[Dave Mack]

Originally Posted by PooperScooper

Big difference. I can live with either, although the "darker" shots add more realism for me.

larry

The lighter one looks too light IMHO.

[tkbryant]

I'm selling my U.S. AVC copy in the classified section if anyone is interested.

[PooperScooper]

Originally Posted by kingkong650

The AUS BD is region free. My ps3 is region A (bought from Hong Kong) so it wouldn't play on it if it wasn't.

Oh, cool. EzyDVD listed it as region B, IIRC. And no stock.

larry

[PooperScooper]

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

The lighter one looks too light IMHO.

I haven't watched the my R2 disc in a while since getting the BD. I can see why they would up the brightness somewhat so people can see more, but in a cave with the lighting they have you would not see that much in some circumstances. Even with the darker settings, you don't miss anything pertinent to the movie/plot, etc. I gonna have to dig out both discs this weekend.

larry

[DavidHir]

Too bad the director couldn't chime in on these. Subjectively, I prefer the darker look.

[kingkong650]

Here's another comparison between one of Whiggles's US AVC shots and the UK DVD which is very similar in look to the AUS BD:

Third Comparison

[General Kenobi]

Originally Posted by kingkong650

Here's another comparison between one of Whiggles's US AVC shots and the UK DVD which is very similar in look to the AUS BD:

Third Comparison

Interesting, in that comparison I like the darker shot better. I'm curious how the darker scenes look when there is only one person with a headlamp, glowstick, or torch. I wonder if there is any loss of shadow detail or black crush in those scenes? In the shots above the US AVC version looks like the brightness is cranked up or something.

[kingkong650]

Originally Posted by General Kenobi

Interesting, in that comparison I like the darker shot better. I'm curious how the darker scenes look when there is only one person with a headlamp, glowstick, or torch. I wonder if there is any loss of shadow detail or black crush in those scenes? In the shots above the US AVC version looks like the brightness is cranked up or something.

Sadly shadow detail is the one thing I can't demonstrate using the UK DVD because it simply doesn't have the bitrate to show said detail. From what I can see, no shadow detail is lost in those scenes on the AUS BD. Naturally the AUS BD looks a lot better than those UK DVD screencaps. The shadow detail is a little harder to see because it is darker than the US AVC version that seems to have been brightened in certain scenes, highlighting these shadow details, but to my eyes it is still there. There is no black crush from what I can see.

Hopefully one of you guys with a blu-ray drive will get a hold of an AUS BD and post some comparison shots from the AUS BD itself so everybody can better compare.

[bosng]

looks to me like the darker version is the correct look for the setting. i understand the mentality of wanting to get more detail in the picture because "more = better" but in this case i tend to disagree.


the poster above made a very good comment when asking if the scene had that amount of light then why do they need headlamps?

the brighter screencaps on many of the avc shots look overexposed even though there was plenty (and i do mean plenty) more detail.

in the end if you like what you see, at least you have the option to choose. this movie is freakin great!!!!

[DCIFRTHS]

Originally Posted by bosng

... the brighter screencaps on many of the avc shots look overexposed even though there was plenty (and i do mean plenty) more detail.

Yes. It does look overexposed. I also prefer the darker version. I believe the darkness adds to the claustrophobic feeling of the being in the cave.

Originally Posted by bosng

in the end if you like what you see, at least you have the option to choose. this movie is freakin great!!!!

Agreed... as long as the ending is intact

[Whiggles]

My copy of the Australian release has just been shipped from DVDCrave. Once it arrives, I'll do a full resolution comparison between it and the US AVC edition.