Higer gain on subwoofer for movies

[jlafrenz]

I am curious as to why I have to turn the gain up on my subwoofers when watching a movie to get the performance desired out of them. For music I have them set at about 50% gain and for movies it seems as though I have to turn them up to at least 3/4. I even have the volume higher for movies and experience this. Everything is level matched including the different sources. Also the subwoofers are in phase with the rest of the system. Why is there such a gap in performance between music and movies and what are my solutions?

[a3plew]

Originally Posted by jlafrenz

I am curious as to why I have to turn the gain up on my subwoofers when watching a movie to get the performance desired out of them. For music I have them set at about 50% gain and for movies it seems as though I have to turn them up to at least 3/4. I even have the volume higher for movies and experience this. Everything is level matched including the different sources. Also the subwoofers are in phase with the rest of the system. Why is there such a gap in performance between music and movies and what are my solutions?

What subwoofer do you have? What receiver do you use? What is your crossover point? Did you level match with a spl meter? How far do you sit from your sub and main speakers? How big is your room? sorry for all the questions.

[chood]

because music is easily drowned out by bass while movies just have bass hits or low basslines to make something more dramatic.

[datgai]

Have you checked out the room response?

Perhaps you have some funky dips and peaks

[sivadselim]

How did you calibrate it? To be calibrated properly for movies you need to use a calibration DVD so that you are calibrating the entire pathway from the player through the receiver.

[jlafrenz]

Originally Posted by datgai

Have you checked out the room response?

Perhaps you have some funky dips and peaks

I know the room has some issues and I have panels on order. I wasn't sure if there was something else causing the issue because music does seem louder. I do know that there are some nulls in the room, possibly in the rage for movies. I hope that is the problem and that the panels will fix it. Just want to look at all options and fixes.

Originally Posted by sivadselim

How did you calibrate it? To be calibrated properly for movies you need to use a calibration DVD so that you are calibrating the entire pathway from the player through the receiver.

I used AVIA Guide to Home Theater. I am going to try it again with another player to see if I get the same results.

[datgai]

Does the AVIA Guide to Home Theater actually use steps to measure frequency response? All of the issues you are talking about could be more easily remedied if you did measure the response of your room. Acoustic panels will not help dramatically with nulls but rather with delays and echos. If you don't measure your room, we're all just throwing darts in the dark. this could be a simple placement issue.

Radioshack stocks inexpensive SPL meters that will cover your needs.

Originally Posted by jlafrenz

I know the room has some issues and I have panels on order. I wasn't sure if there was something else causing the issue because music does seem louder. I do know that there are some nulls in the room, possibly in the rage for movies. I hope that is the problem and that the panels will fix it. Just want to look at all options and fixes.



I used AVIA Guide to Home Theater. I am going to try it again with another player to see if I get the same results.

[jlafrenz]

Originally Posted by datgai

Does the AVIA Guide to Home Theater actually use steps to measure frequency response? All of the issues you are talking about could be more easily remedied if you did measure the response of your room. Acoustic panels will not help dramatically with nulls but rather with delays and echos. If you don't measure your room, we're all just throwing darts in the dark. this could be a simple placement issue.

Radioshack stocks inexpensive SPL meters that will cover your needs.

AVIA does have frequency sweeps if that is what you are asking about. I need to put REW on the laptop and do some testing. My post was in hopes that it was merely a simple fix, but as I figured there may be more to it. As far as placement, I am pretty much limited on sub placement. The only other place I have for the subs would be in a corner and I am trying to avoid this because the low end is already boomy in my room. I am afraid that putting the subs in the corner will only add to this.

[datgai]

Originally Posted by jlafrenz

AVIA does have frequency sweeps ...

Did you measure the frequency sweeps?

[Zinje]

What kind of subwoofer do you have?

[sivadselim]

Originally Posted by datgai

Did you measure the frequency sweeps?

You can't measure frequency sweeps with a RS meter.

[sivadselim]

jlafrenz,

How do you listen to music? In other words, do you use the same DVD player that you use for movies? And the same digital connection? If so, do you leave the receiver at the same exact setting for decoding both movies and music or do you alter the setting and use something like 'direct' mode for music? The reason I ask is because y ou need to make certain that the same bass managment settings are being applied in both circumstances. 'Direct' modes often apply bass management separately from your standard auto setting that you use for movies and often differently as well. If you use 2 different settings for movies and music, they may very well have 2 different sets of speaker level adjustments that the receiver remembers each time you use a particular setting.

[jlafrenz]

Originally Posted by Zinje

What kind of subwoofer do you have?

Dual AV123 MFW-15's.

Originally Posted by sivadselim

jlafrenz,

How do you listen to music? In other words, do you use the same DVD player that you use for movies? And the same digital connection? If so, do you leave the receiver at the same exact setting for decoding both movies and music or do you alter the setting and use something like 'direct' mode for music? The reason I ask is because y ou need to make certain that the same bass managment settings are being applied in both circumstances. 'Direct' modes often apply bass management separately from your standard auto setting that you use for movies and often differently as well. If you use 2 different settings for movies and music, they may very well have 2 different sets of speaker level adjustments that the receiver remembers each time you use a particular setting.

I usually listen to music from a HTPC and movies from a DVD player. I level matched them because I found that the output level was different on them, but never took into consideration the things that you pointed out. I will have to do some research on that. Thanks for that bit of info.

[mailiang]

Originally Posted by jlafrenz

Dual AV123 MFW-15's.



I usually listen to music from a HTPC and movies from a DVD player. I level matched them because I found that the output level was different on them, but never took into consideration the things that you pointed out. I will have to do some research on that. Thanks for that bit of info.

When running two subs, placement can be a MAJOR issue due to cancellation problems. When balancing your system with an spl meter you may want to try taking measurements with the first sub on and second one off then vice versa, checking changes in output levels from the listening position. You may have to experiment by moving one sub or both till you get the best results.

Ian

[jlafrenz]

Originally Posted by mailiang

When running two subs, placement can be a MAJOR issue due to cancellation problems. When balancing your system with an spl meter you may want to try taking measurements with the first sub on and second one off then vice versa, checking changes in output levels from the listening position. You may have to experiment by moving one sub or both till you get the best results.

Ian

The subs are stacked.

[thehun]

Originally Posted by sivadselim

You can't measure frequency sweeps with a RS meter.

Sure you can. However it won't be accurate especially at the lower octaves, and there are standing waves to consider too. Still better then nothing.

[Pure-Evil]

Originally Posted by jlafrenz

Dual AV123 MFW-15's.



I usually listen to music from a HTPC and movies from a DVD player. I level matched them because I found that the output level was different on them, but never took into consideration the things that you pointed out. I will have to do some research on that. Thanks for that bit of info.

i have dual MFW15s and for movies i have the bass turned up to about 2/3's to sometimes more. i think it is because i have such a huge room though, poor accoustics, and i am sitting 20 feet away from my subs...

[JBLsound4645]

Is this the Heineken beer thread? I mean “higer” what does that mean, sure you haven’t been drinking?

[mailiang]

Originally Posted by jlafrenz

The subs are stacked.

So is my new girlfriend and she's just great with movies!


Ian

[datgai]

Originally Posted by sivadselim

You can't measure frequency sweeps with a RS meter.

Sure you can, it depends on the speed of the sweep. Don't be a butthead

[Soundoctor]

Although humor abounds, you've all seemingly missed the point.

DVD's, more specifically "movies" are usually mixed and then mastered to "rules" that are fairly standard.

Music CD's, on the other hand, are made by the wild and reckless genre that encompasses musicians and producers, all of whom foolishly think they are trying to win some sort of loudness (or at least 'compression') contest. At every step of the way, most of these people attempt to be louder than the next guy, and after the recording and mixing steps are done, the final mix is "normalized" , which does not make anything normal just as equalization specifically does NOT make thing equal...! And then during the mastering step, further procedures are often taken to make the overal mix still "louder". All of these people seem to forget, or perhaps never understood in the first place, that loudness is not a function of filling up digital bits to get the signal to ffff, it's a function of how loud the volume control is turned up at the playback stage.

Without getting into exact numbers, basically you have with movies a situation where you have a dialog level -- which you are supposed to set in your room at 85 dB -- and then you have 20dB headroom on top of that for M&E (music & effects) making an SPL of 105dB when all 5 channels plus the LFE channel (if it is used) are fully operating.

If you were to set the system up that way, you might find that without changing any local volume control setting (i.e. your master volume) that when you put on some music CD's the SPL might be 'hovering' at 100 dB, 105 dB, even more.

And when going back and forth between classical, jazz, rock CD's (and maybe vinyl) there is such a wide range between the mixes that you MUST actually set the sub level to taste for most of those sources and performances.

Of course, you MAY find that one subwoofer setting optimized for movies also pleases you for music -- or not.

Most of this has very little to do with the room or your actual subs; it only has to do with the RATIO of the loudness of your sub(s) relative to the loudness of the rest of your speakers, whether they be stereo or n.1.

Barry

[thehun]

Originally Posted by JBLsound4645

Is this the Heineken beer thread? I mean “higer” what does that mean, sure you haven’t been drinking?

Right, if a typo means one being drunk, you would never had a moment of clarity in your entire life.