"The Dark Knight" PQ issues.

Alan Gouger · 11-20-08, 01:22 PM

I just watched my copy. Regarding PQ why is it they have to mess with the block busters. I was disappointed to see someone applied good ole EE. The ringing is not to bad but its enough to leave the movie with what I call edginess at times during long distance shots it clearly rears its head. Sad. I had to make sure all sharpness setting were flat for this one but it did not help clean it up.
I screened this at 8 feet wide. I doubt anyone with a smaller display or flat panel will notice as this transfer will come off extra on these sets.
Other then this complaint I found the transfer/sound/movie enjoyable.

All follow ups please mention your display width.

Thx.

JeffY · 11-20-08, 01:26 PM

The EE was probably down scaling of the IMAX content

How was the variable aspect ratio?

Thunderbolt8 · 11-20-08, 01:28 PM

bring on some screens

shadowrage · 11-20-08, 01:28 PM

Did they add EE to already super sharp IMAX shots?

Alan how did you feel about the aspect ratio shifts on a big screen? And what are the audio bitrates like? I'm hoping that this is Warner's 2nd 24bit track.

ToEhrIsHuman · 11-20-08, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffY

The EE was probably down scaling of the IMAX content

How was the variable aspect ratio?

Actually, my guess is it would be just the reverse. WB probably used the IMAX master for the BD transfer, and I noticed ringing on the IMAX presentation on many of the non-IMAX format scenes. They apparently added EE so that the non-IMAX shots would appear clearer when blown up to IMAX proportions (it didn't work). I found it distracting in the theater, and hopefully it won't be too distracting on my 5-foot DLP.

rveras · 11-20-08, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowrage

Did they add EE to already super sharp IMAX shots?

Alan how did you feel about the aspect ratio shifts on a big screen? And what are the audio bitrates like? I'm hoping that this is Warner's 2nd 24bit track.

I saw what it look to me like EE (halos?) when I went to see the movie at IMAX (I'm no 100% but I don't believe it was on any of the IMAX shots). Someone at High-Def Digest mention that this is caused by the 35mm to IMAX upscaling process that needs to be done to present a 35mm print on that big of a screen.

rveras · 11-20-08, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToEhrIsHuman

Actually, my guess is it would be just the reverse. WB probably used the IMAX master for the BD transfer, and I noticed ringing on the IMAX presentation on many of the non-IMAX format scenes. They apparently added EE so that the non-IMAX shots would appear clearer when blown up to IMAX proportions (it didn't work). I found it distracting in the theater, and hopefully it won't be too distracting on my 5-foot DLP.

Glad I was not the only one to notice that. I remember thinking "those scientist at AVS Forum are a bunch of liars. No EE on film, yea right!!!"

I was glad to learn that there was a reason for it but it was definately distracting.

FoxyMulder · 11-20-08, 01:51 PM

I just got an email tonight saying my copy has shipped so i'll expect it early next week or even by the weekend if i'm lucky....When it arrives i'll be viewing on a 106inch screen.

EE on such a new release is troublesome...I remember Robert Harris earlier in the year saying that by January 2009 he expected DNR to be gone on all new major releases...I can only hope EE doesn't start creeping in on new releases as to those of us with large projection systems it is a major headache.

I'll report back on this thread when i view it...Hoping the EE is minor and not throughout the film as that will be most annoying.

If this is something to do with the IMAX edition then they should have used a different print as EE is just plain old unacceptable in 2008 on HD media.

For me Batman Begins looked detailed and had no EE....I sure hope this isn't going to disappoint...Smaller your screen the less EE is noticeable or bothersome so many might not even notice it or might come onto the boards saying it's sharper than Batman begins not realising it's the EE making it seem sharper ( but EE is all an illusion and it's not really sharper )

42041 · 11-20-08, 01:53 PM

I don't mind a bit of EE, as long as it doesn't look as mediocre in terms of detail as Batman Begins.

Alan Gouger · 11-20-08, 02:20 PM

The aspect ratio change really threw me. I run a 235:1 screen and started out watching this in 185 then bingo. I plan to watch this again and not yet sure how I prefer to handle this. I do however hope this does not become common, I dont like it.

shadowrage · 11-20-08, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Gouger

The aspect ratio change really threw me. I run a 235:1 screen and started out watching this in 185 then bingo. I plan to watch this again and not yet sure how I prefer to handle this. I do however hope this does not become common, I dont like it.

Only Kubrick is allowed to do this.

They could have easily branched in reformatted IMAX shots, and let people to choose between the normal scope and switching IMAX version.

I have my fingers crossed they'll do that for the Ultimate Edition next year.

FoxyMulder · 11-20-08, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Gouger

The aspect ratio change really threw me. I run a 235:1 screen and started out watching this in 185 then bingo. I plan to watch this again and not yet sure how I prefer to handle this. I do however hope this does not become common, I dont like it.

They have an aspect change during the movie ? Now that could be distracting.

I assume thats for the IMAX shot scenes...Just wondering but does the EE disappear when it changes to the 1.85:1 IMAX shot scenes ?

Alan Gouger · 11-20-08, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxyMulder

They have an aspect change during the movie ? Now that could be distracting.

I assume thats for the IMAX shot scenes...Just wondering but does the EE disappear when it changes to the 1.85:1 IMAX shot scenes ?

The EE is there from the get go in 16x9 which I assume would be the Imax footage. It is possible I noticed it more when 235:1 kicked in I will have to look closer next viewing.
The ringing is not anywhere as bad as Ive seen it but its there. I mentioned I doubt anyone will a smaller display will notice this and it may work in their favor but this ringing keeps me from placing this in the reference category ( but close ) Id score it an 8 out of 10. Im curious how the reviewers will rate this or if they will even pick up on it.

rveras · 11-20-08, 02:55 PM

Hey guys keep in mind that the aspect ratio change is what the director wanted so seeing this movie any other way is not appropriate. You wouldn't watch a 2.35 movie zoom in, will you?

Alan Gouger · 11-20-08, 02:59 PM

How was this projected in the theaters? I wonder if many cut corners and masked to one ratio or if some went through the trouble to automate the ratio change.
For those who had the opportunity how did you see the theatrical screening?

rveras · 11-20-08, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Gouger

How was this projected in the theaters? I wonder if many cut corners and masked to one ratio or if some when through the trouble to automate the ratio change.

At IMAX it was presented with the aspect ratio change. At regular theaters it was presented with a 2.40 aspect ratio with the IMAX scene masked top and bottom.

How the Dark Night Went IMAX
http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/07/14/...ght-went-imax/

paul nyc · 11-20-08, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Gouger

The aspect ratio change really threw me. I run a 235:1 screen and started out watching this in 185 then bingo. I plan to watch this again and not yet sure how I prefer to handle this. I do however hope this does not become common, I dont like it.

1.78 AR for the IMAX filmed sequences
2.35 (2.40) AR for the 35mm filmed sequences

5/5 PQ (via BD30 - 60" Elite 1080p ISF)
5/5 AQ (Integra w/ KEF x 5 w/ 15" Supercube)

John Ballentine · 11-20-08, 03:10 PM

Alan,
Geeeze I'm confused

.
So You watched the whole film in 16x9 on your scope screen? What would happen if you watched this w/ anamorphic lens on your scope screen? Would heads be be cut off when it switched to IMAX footage? Or?

Toe · 11-20-08, 03:37 PM

How is the sound?? I can deal with a bit of EE (but I wish I did not have to), but hope the sound is reference!

patrick99 · 11-20-08, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul nyc

1.78 AR for the IMAX filmed sequences
2.35 (2.40) AR for the 35mm filmed sequences

5/5 PQ (via BD30 - 60" Elite 1080p ISF)
5/5 AQ (Integra w/ KEF x 5 w/ 15" Supercube)

Any comments on the presence of EE?

Alan Gouger · 11-20-08, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Ballentine

Alan,
Geeeze I'm confused

.
So You watched the whole film in 16x9 on your scope screen? What would happen if you watched this w/ anamorphic lens on your scope screen? Would heads be be cut off when it switched to IMAX footage? Or?

I can hit a button to switch between the two ratios but there is still lag time between that switch where anyone over for the movie would yell at me and say WTF are you doing

R Harkness · 11-20-08, 03:45 PM

I don't like the whole switching ARs either. Seeing it in an IMAX theater, ok...but for home viewing it's more a PIA.

paul nyc · 11-20-08, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrick99

Any comments on the presence of EE?

None on a 60" plasma. Can't comment on any larger screen size.

patrick99 · 11-20-08, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul nyc

None on a 60" plasma. Can't comment on any larger screen size.

Thanks. Mind if I ask about viewing distance?

sharkcohen · 11-20-08, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Harkness

I don't like the whole switching ARs either. Seeing it in an IMAX theater, ok...but for home viewing it's more a PIA.

I'm not happy about it. It may be what Nolan wanted, but that doesn't mean he's not smoking crack.

Alan Gouger · 11-20-08, 05:08 PM

I just screened "Wanted" which I also received today and that transfer is everything TDK could and should have been not that TDK is that far behind, it is close.

TDK was the bigger block buster of the two and its sad someone had to lay on the EE knob based on their personal artistic opinion for the day thinking Ah I think this looks better

Alan Gouger · 11-20-08, 05:12 PM

By the way I started this thread knowing another thread was in progress but that threads topic is centered around the movies story.

paul nyc · 11-20-08, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrick99

Thanks. Mind if I ask about viewing distance?

9-10 feet

patrick99 · 11-20-08, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul nyc

9-10 feet

Thanks again. I watch from about one screen width, and it might be more noticeable at that distance.

tauheel05 · 11-20-08, 05:32 PM

Alan,

Post some screen captures.

Thanks.

11-20-08, 01:22 PM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
Alan Gouger Not Really Here, Or Am I? AVS GOLD CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Somewhere in the good ole USA Posts: 17,894 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	"The Dark Knight" PQ issues. I just watched my copy. Regarding PQ why is it they have to mess with the block busters. I was disappointed to see someone applied good ole EE. The ringing is not to bad but its enough to leave the movie with what I call edginess at times during long distance shots it clearly rears its head. Sad. I had to make sure all sharpness setting were flat for this one but it did not help clean it up. I screened this at 8 feet wide. I doubt anyone with a smaller display or flat panel will notice as this transfer will come off extra on these sets. Other then this complaint I found the transfer/sound/movie enjoyable. All follow ups please mention your display width. Thx.

11-20-08, 01:28 PM	#4 \| Link
shadowrage AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,779 Classified Rating: 100% (4)	Did they add EE to already super sharp IMAX shots? Alan how did you feel about the aspect ratio shifts on a big screen? And what are the audio bitrates like? I'm hoping that this is Warner's 2nd 24bit track. __________________ Ridiculous codec tier sig gone. Still AVC/24bit lossless fanboy. Studio quality tier Most Major studios>Small Studios>dogs>cats>Warner(the guys that do new movies)

11-20-08, 01:51 PM	#8 \| Link
FoxyMulder 2Cute Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Scotland Posts: 5,753	I just got an email tonight saying my copy has shipped so i'll expect it early next week or even by the weekend if i'm lucky....When it arrives i'll be viewing on a 106inch screen. EE on such a new release is troublesome...I remember Robert Harris earlier in the year saying that by January 2009 he expected DNR to be gone on all new major releases...I can only hope EE doesn't start creeping in on new releases as to those of us with large projection systems it is a major headache. I'll report back on this thread when i view it...Hoping the EE is minor and not throughout the film as that will be most annoying. If this is something to do with the IMAX edition then they should have used a different print as EE is just plain old unacceptable in 2008 on HD media. For me Batman Begins looked detailed and had no EE....I sure hope this isn't going to disappoint...Smaller your screen the less EE is noticeable or bothersome so many might not even notice it or might come onto the boards saying it's sharper than Batman begins not realising it's the EE making it seem sharper ( but EE is all an illusion and it's not really sharper ) __________________ ----- ----- ----- ----- http://www.darkrealmfox.com/film_reviews/ ---- ----- ------ -------- ---- ----- --- Last edited by FoxyMulder; 11-20-08 at 02:04 PM.. Reason: i always edit posts due to forgetting to say what i really mean

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Alan Gouger Not Really Here, Or Am I? AVS GOLD CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Somewhere in the good ole USA Posts: 17,894 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	The aspect ratio change really threw me. I run a 235:1 screen and started out watching this in 185 then bingo. I plan to watch this again and not yet sure how I prefer to handle this. I do however hope this does not become common, I dont like it.

11-20-08, 02:55 PM	#14 \| Link
rveras AVS Special Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Haverhill, MA Posts: 1,728	Director Intent Hey guys keep in mind that the aspect ratio change is what the director wanted so seeing this movie any other way is not appropriate. You wouldn't watch a 2.35 movie zoom in, will you?

11-20-08, 01:26 PM	#2 \| Link
JeffY AVS Special Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: England Posts: 3,626	The EE was probably down scaling of the IMAX content How was the variable aspect ratio?

11-20-08, 01:28 PM	#3 \| Link
Thunderbolt8 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 308	bring on some screens

11-20-08, 01:53 PM	#9 \| Link
42041 AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,401	I don't mind a bit of EE, as long as it doesn't look as mediocre in terms of detail as Batman Begins.

11-20-08, 02:59 PM	#15 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
Alan Gouger Not Really Here, Or Am I? AVS GOLD CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Somewhere in the good ole USA Posts: 17,894 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	How was this projected in the theaters? I wonder if many cut corners and masked to one ratio or if some went through the trouble to automate the ratio change. For those who had the opportunity how did you see the theatrical screening?

11-20-08, 03:10 PM	#18 \| Link
John Ballentine AVS Special Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Santa Clarita, Ca. Posts: 4,877	Alan, Geeeze I'm confused. So You watched the whole film in 16x9 on your scope screen? What would happen if you watched this w/ anamorphic lens on your scope screen? Would heads be be cut off when it switched to IMAX footage? Or?

11-20-08, 03:37 PM	#19 \| Link
Toe AVS Special Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 6,235	How is the sound?? I can deal with a bit of EE (but I wish I did not have to), but hope the sound is reference!

11-20-08, 03:45 PM	#22 \| Link
R Harkness AVS Special Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 8,319	I don't like the whole switching ARs either. Seeing it in an IMAX theater, ok...but for home viewing it's more a PIA. __________________ Rich H

11-20-08, 05:08 PM	#26 \| Link
Alan Gouger Not Really Here, Or Am I? AVS GOLD CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Somewhere in the good ole USA Posts: 17,894 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	I just screened "Wanted" which I also received today and that transfer is everything TDK could and should have been not that TDK is that far behind, it is close. TDK was the bigger block buster of the two and its sad someone had to lay on the EE knob based on their personal artistic opinion for the day thinking Ah I think this looks better

11-20-08, 05:12 PM	#27 \| Link
Alan Gouger Not Really Here, Or Am I? AVS GOLD CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Somewhere in the good ole USA Posts: 17,894 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	By the way I started this thread knowing another thread was in progress but that threads topic is centered around the movies story.

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tauheel05 Advanced Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: North Carolina Posts: 574	Alan, Post some screen captures. Thanks.