Oppo BDP-83 Universal Blu-ray player info...

[drziggles]

Some posts in the Blu-ray forum, but thought everyone would be interested in the latest details of the first reasonably affordable universal Blu-ray player we've all been waiting for...

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6621953.html

[sivadselim]

Originally Posted by drziggles

Some posts in the Blu-ray forum, but thought everyone would be interested in the latest details of the first reasonably affordable universal Blu-ray player we've all been waiting for...

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6621953.html

Jeez. They're going to make a killing. Where's the back of the line?

[rdgrimes]

The most interesting features to this crowd will be DSD over HDMI and direct DSD-to-analog conversion. Also offers DSD->PCM for both HDMI and analog.

Assuming DVD-A gets implemented without any snags it should also support MLP files on disc or USB drives, as do the other Oppo players.

Risking flames from the Denon crew, I'll add that this player will make the soon-to-release Denon flagship look silly.

[Denophile]

no need for flaming--the denon is not geared for the same audience--the denon is made to be the best available, xlr outputs, ultra high end dac's, realta hqv processing, great analog section, it is an audiophiles blu ray player whereas the oppo, as it has always set out to be, is an economically balanced unit with good performance and features for the money. it should be a fantastic unit but it is not built to be in the same league as a 3k+ player... when they both come out we can evaluate if the performance difference is worth the price but i don't think the same people will be getting in line for the oppo as will for the denon. just my HO.

I imagine the blu ray performance will be very very close. the analog section and sacd/dvda performance should be the advantage, and then only through the analog outs--if your using the player as a transport the denon would make little sense--id agree to that for sure. SD upscaling, while on the oppo should be great, should again, theoretically, be bettered by the hqv realta procesing in the denon too.

for people who plan on using the player with a preamp over analog it COULD provide a significant performance advantage in theory. fully balanced design is really nice and appeals to me but that is just in my setup (with my outdated parasound c1 prepro) or with a nice balanced 2 ch analog or tube preamp with HT bypass.

With that said--if I had one here for cmparison and I liked it as much for audio as my denon 5910 I would definitely consider it though...

[Harrypt]

Originally Posted by rdgrimes

The most interesting features to this crowd will be DSD over HDMI and direct DSD-to-analog conversion. Also offers DSD->PCM for both HDMI and analog.

Assuming DVD-A gets implemented without any snags it should also support MLP files on disc or USB drives, as do the other Oppo players.

Risking flames from the Denon crew, I'll add that this player will make the soon-to-release Denon flagship look silly.

Any flaming would come from the uber common misunderstanding that sound quality comes exclusively from the DACs. In fact, the DACs feed an analog output section which has as much or more impact on the sound quality than the DACs. There are only a relatively few DAC chips by a couple manufacturers in the market that are used in almost all retail products. While there may be differences in their sound, the analog section is where the improvements are usually made when adding more $$ to the cost of a product.

The Oppo players have been overachievers at their price point, but flaming more expensive gear shows a clear misunderstanding of the complete playback circuit and which parts have the greatest impact on sound quality.

(This of course assumes you are using the analog outputs of the Oppo, which I believe are required for playback of the hi-res formats. At least they were for all previous models. I've owned all three Oppo units but obviously I can't comment on the BD unit as it's not available yet.)

[sivadselim]

Originally Posted by Harrypt

Any flaming would come from the uber common misunderstanding that sound quality comes exclusively from the DACs. In fact, the DACs feed an analog output section which has as much or more impact on the sound quality than the DACs. There are only a relatively few DAC chips by a couple manufacturers in the market that are used in almost all retail products. While there may be differences in their sound, the analog section is where the improvements are usually made when adding more $$ to the cost of a product.

The Oppo players have been overachievers at their price point, but flaming more expensive gear shows a clear misunderstanding of the complete playback circuit and which parts have the greatest impact on sound quality.

Your post may be correct, but it really makes little sense in the context of this thread.

Originally Posted by Harrypt

(This of course assumes you are using the analog outputs of the Oppo, which I believe are required for playback of the hi-res formats. At least they were for all previous models.

No, they weren't. Except for SACD by the 971, they all pass the hirez formats just fine via HDMI. The 980 will even pass SACD as DSD via HDMI.

[Harrypt]

Originally Posted by sivadselim

No, they weren't. Except for SACD by the 971, they pass the hirez formats just fine via HDMI. The 980 will even pass SACD as DSD via HDMI.

LMFAO

The biggest troll on the site is the first to "correct" me and show exactly what I was saying regarding lack of understanding of the circuit. Thanks for making my point for me, but you probably don't understand irony either.

[sivadselim]

Originally Posted by Harrypt

The biggest troll on the site is the first to "correct" me and show exactly what I was saying regarding lack of understanding of the circuit. Thanks for making my point for me, but you probably don't understand irony either.

Care to explain? You asserted that an analog connection was required for hirez playback with an OPPO. You're wrong.

[David Scott]

Hopefully like the 980H it will ignore the watermark on dvd-a discs. I like to make my own mixed dvd-a compilations and the 980 made it possible to use the mlp's from all my discs.

[rdgrimes]

Originally Posted by David Scott

Hopefully like the 980H it will ignore the watermark on dvd-a discs. I like to make my own mixed dvd-a compilations and the 980 made it possible to use the mlp's from all my discs.

I think (hope) we will see the BDP-83 function the same as the 980/981/983 with respect to MLP files, but since it has not yet been implemented we don't know for sure. I don't expect to see support for PCM or FLAC files. The 2 USB ports will certainly make for handy playback from any type drive.

[oztech]

The test bench scores will probably be interesting and may cause other companies
to rethink their strategy their older players have held their own in that respect I doubt
they will break that trend.

[btf1980]

Originally Posted by Harrypt

LMFAO

The biggest troll on the site is the first to "correct" me and show exactly what I was saying regarding lack of understanding of the circuit. Thanks for making my point for me, but you probably don't understand irony either.

I don't know what you're laughing at, he's(sivadselim) correct.

[Harrypt]

Originally Posted by btf1980

I don't know what you're laughing at, he's(sivadselim) correct.

Let's see where he is right. My post clearly said that people don't understand that DACs only make a small part of the difference of the sound of a player and that my statement requires that HDMI not be used for passing that signal.

So, which of these is not true?
1. The original premise reiterated above pertained to the OP and is correct.
2. Picking out one small part of the post, placing it out of context from the overall gist in order to correct an error makes him a troll. Now I may be wrong that some of the Oppos pass hi rez over HDMI but it has nothing to do with the point of the post of which he is commenting. The statement was speaking about the end of the chain of playback where the digital is ultimately changed over to analog. This means HDMI cannot be used. Which brings us to choice three.
3. Arguing that he is right just means you don't understand #2 either. Both of you appear to fall into the camp of those that don't understand these concepts and what makes some players sound better than others, as stated in my very first post.

Since you can't have a meaningful discussion with those that don't understand, this will be my last post feeding the trolls.

[Nathan_R]

Originally Posted by Harrypt

Now I may be wrong that some of the Oppos pass hi rez over HDMI but it has nothing to do with the point of the post of which he is commenting.

Yes, this is exactly what others have been saying, and you are indeed incorrect in this manner. Correcting your wrong statements does not make one a troll.

[btf1980]

Originally Posted by Harrypt

Let's see where he is right. My post clearly said that people don't understand that DACs only make a small part of the difference of the sound of a player and that my statement requires that HDMI not be used for passing that signal.

So, which of these is not true?
1. The original premise reiterated above pertained to the OP and is correct.
2. Picking out one small part of the post, placing it out of context from the overall gist in order to correct an error makes him a troll. Now I may be wrong that some of the Oppos pass hi rez over HDMI but it has nothing to do with the point of the post of which he is commenting. The statement was speaking about the end of the chain of playback where the digital is ultimately changed over to analog. This means HDMI cannot be used. Which brings us to choice three.
3. Arguing that he is right just means you don't understand #2 either. Both of you appear to fall into the camp of those that don't understand these concepts and what makes some players sound better than others, as stated in my very first post.

Since you can't have a meaningful discussion with those that don't understand, this will be my last post feeding the trolls.

I have no idea why you are getting worked up and calling people trolls, I certainly am not that. My contention was that you were wrong in stating that you need to use analog outs for playback of hi-rez audio on Oppo players. I'm not picking and choosing, it's what you said. It is wrong. Stating this means you are trolling?

Instead of building strawman arguments of what I understand, or don't, maybe you need a lesson in manners.

[sivadselim]

Originally Posted by Harrypt

My post clearly said that people don't understand that DACs only make a small part of the difference of the sound of a player............

And when or where was that EVER relevant to the content of the thread that had unfolded prior to you enlightening () us, oh wise one?

Originally Posted by Harrypt

1. The original premise reiterated above pertained to the OP.............

How?

Originally Posted by Harrypt

Picking out one small part of the post, placing it out of context from the overall gist in order to correct an error makes him a troll. Now I may be wrong that some of the Oppos pass hi rez over HDMI but it has nothing to do with the point of the post of which he is commenting.

Cruel world, ain't it?

What WAS your point, anyway? Your post is so out of context it seems it belongs in some other thread. You are addressing something that, until you plopped it into the thread, was never even the subject of discussion. Maybe you should go back and read the posts again.

Originally Posted by Harrypt

3. Arguing that he is right just means you don't understand #2 either. Both of you appear to fall into the camp of those that don't understand these concepts and what makes some players sound better than others, as stated in my very first post.

We ALL understand it, Harrypt. Why do you think you have blessed us with some golden nugget?

What is the relevance of your post? Was it some preemptive attempt at stopping someone from posting that the DACs would have something to do with the difference between any 2 players? Because no one really said anything about that until your post.

Originally Posted by Harrypt

...........this will be my last post feeding the trolls.

YOUR post was the troll. An attempt at starting some sort of debate that had never even been hinted at, really, in the thread. I guess I took the bait.

[Harrypt]

Originally Posted by Nathan_R

Yes, this is exactly what others have been saying, and you are indeed incorrect in this manner. Correcting your wrong statements does not make one a troll.

That's great. You found an error in my statement that had nothing to do with the point of the post. We were talking about analog, HDMI has nothing to do with it. The signal eventually must be turned back to analog, hence my "uber common misunderstanding" statement, of which you all have all failed to grasp.

The irony...

So you are right, I'm wrong. Now why don't we go this back to the original subject, because to do otherwise would be trolling.

[Edit]Actually I do see where I made the main mistake, which is I was replying to Denophile who brought up analog sections and the subject of flaming. But I must have hit the quote button from the post above his. And apparently you failed to read all posts because in that context, my reply made perfect sense.

I am done here.

[sivadselim]

Originally Posted by Harrypt

We were talking about analog..........

We? You were. Why? The only person that said anything even remotely related to what you posted was Denophile who stated ".......the denon is made to be the best available, xlr outputs, ultra high end dac's, realta hqv processing, great analog section........". You posted in reply to rdgrimes who said not a thing about the DACs of the player(s). He hinted that that he would be flamed for saying that the OPPO would make the Denon "look silly". Your post (rant) was a response to something that was non-existant.

Originally Posted by Harrypt

The signal eventually must be turned back to analog.................

Thanks, Sherlock. Relevance?

Originally Posted by Harrypt

Now why don't we go this back to the original subject................

Care to tell us what your understanding of the original subject is? Because your post was irrelevant to the original subject.

Originally Posted by Harrypt

..............because to do otherwise would be trolling.

Learn what "trolling" means. Post #5 is a good example of it.



You have some issue with me, Harrypt. Regardless of what you may think, I have no issue with you. You said something that was wrong (again). I corrected you. Quit whining.

[David Scott]

Hopefully seeing the player in action will be as fun as the action in this thread.

[rdgrimes]

Originally Posted by David Scott

Hopefully seeing the player in action will be as fun as the action in this thread.

It will be a good bit more interesting, to be sure.

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by Denophile

no need for flaming--the denon is not geared for the same audience--the denon is made to be the best available, xlr outputs, ultra high end dac's, realta hqv processing, great analog section, it is an audiophiles blu ray player whereas the oppo, as it has always set out to be, is an economically balanced unit with good performance and features for the money. it should be a fantastic unit but it is not built to be in the same league as a 3k+ player... when they both come out we can evaluate if the performance difference is worth the price but i don't think the same people will be getting in line for the oppo as will for the denon. just my HO.

Don't disagree with you, but it does strike me as curious that the expensive Denon and Pioneer units are targetted at 'philes (whether of audio or video pursuasion) with better DACs, video processing, etc. Yet, wouldn't most enthusiasts, or maybe it's only me, really just want a transport that can send out native digital video and audio over HDMI. The Oppo 83 certainly seems like the right unit at the right price. Fingers crossed!

[shinksma]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Don't disagree with you, but it does strike me as curious that the expensive Denon and Pioneer units are targetted at 'philes (whether of audio or video pursuasion) with better DACs, video processing, etc. Yet, wouldn't most enthusiasts, or maybe it's only me, really just want a transport that can send out native digital video and audio over HDMI. The Oppo 83 certainly seems like the right unit at the right price. Fingers crossed!

I think the Denon and others of its ilk are targeted at folks that have very high-end analog-based systems - i.e. no HDMI. So either they finally pony up the $$$$$ to upgrade their analog stuff (probably separates too), or pony up $$$$ (note one less $ ) to get something like the Denon.

For those like me, who have an HDMI-based low- to mid-priced system, the Oppo is perfect.

IMHO,

shinksma

[rdgrimes]

Originally Posted by shinksma

I think the Denon and others of its ilk are targeted at folks that have very high-end analog-based systems - i.e. no HDMI. So either they finally pony up the $$$$$ to upgrade their analog stuff (probably separates too), or pony up $$$$ (note one less $ ) to get something like the Denon.

For those like me, who have an HDMI-based low- to mid-priced system, the Oppo is perfect.

IMHO,

shinksma

A curious leap of logic there. So is any HDMI-based system then automatically a "low-to-mid-priced system"? Or is it that anyone who uses an Oppo player must have a low-to-mid-priced system? I know people who have as much as a small house invested, and use Oppo hardware.

[wse]

Originally Posted by rdgrimes

A curious leap of logic there. So is any HDMI-based system then automatically a "low-to-mid-priced system"? Or is it that anyone who uses an Oppo player must have a low-to-mid-priced system? I know people who have as much as a small house invested, and use Oppo hardware.

I am one of those I guess 3 B&W 802D, 2 B&W 802N, Classé CA-5200 & CA-2100, JVC RS-2, Integra Research RDC7, StewartFilm Screen FireHawk G3 10 feet wide is a "low-to-mid-priced system"

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by rdgrimes

A curious leap of logic there. So is any HDMI-based system then automatically a "low-to-mid-priced system"? Or is it that anyone who uses an Oppo player must have a low-to-mid-priced system? I know people who have as much as a small house invested, and use Oppo hardware.

Certainly not, however, it is something of a sore point in the hiend that HDMI seems to be a 'trickle up' rather than a 'trickle down' technology. Although I can do HDMI video via my Lumagen Radiance, as of now, my Meridian 861 cannot. Hopefully that changes soon - thus my 'faith' in the Oppo 83 as the bluray player for me.

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Certainly not, however, it is something of a sore point in the hiend that HDMI seems to be a 'trickle up' rather than a 'trickle down' technology. Although I can do HDMI video via my Lumagen Radiance, as of now, my Meridian 861 cannot. Hopefully that changes soon - thus my 'faith' in the Oppo 83 as the bluray player for me.

1. A Meridian solution is in the works.
2. The inexpensive 3xS/PDIF mod for some player works beautifully with my 861 (http://www.switch-box.com/3x_S_PDIF_...put_Board.html)

[shinksma]

Originally Posted by rdgrimes

A curious leap of logic there. So is any HDMI-based system then automatically a "low-to-mid-priced system"? Or is it that anyone who uses an Oppo player must have a low-to-mid-priced system? I know people who have as much as a small house invested, and use Oppo hardware.

Neither: No leap of logic, just my opinion on the target market for the Denons. A target market doesn't mean other people can and will buy it for other reasons. One could argue the Toyota RAV4 and Honda CRV are targeted at Gen X females, but that doesn't stop guys of any age from buying the vehicles for their own reasons.

I used myself as an example: I have a (what I consider) mid-fidelity system that happens to be HDMI-based. For me, even if I could tell the differences in the analog sections of the Denon vs Oppo, it may not matter because my final amplification stage is not via high-end gear, and I would probably use HDMI for convenience anyway. If I had a high-end analog system, then maybe I'd care for the added benefit of the improved analog section of the Denon. If I had a high-end HDMI-based system then I'd probably bypass the player analogs, and if I had a mid-fidelity analog system, I'd be losing most of that super-duper analog fidelity from the Denon in the rest of the system anyway. So IMHO, the people likely to see the most benefit from the Denon vs the Oppo would be those with high-end analog systems. And that would likely be Denon's target market.

And there seem to be a lot of folks here on AVS with high-end analog systems that have not "upgraded" to an HDMI system because they have not been satisfied with what is currently available, or simply don't want to invest the considerable coin required. So IMHO the (theorized by me) Denon target market exists.

So the Oppo will be a very nice "universal" unit for everyone, but for those folks that absolutely have to have the creme-de-la-creme of analog performance the Denon may appear to be a worthwhile investment. If someone has a high-end HDMI system, they might buy the Denon for the name brand, or they might buy the Oppo because it offers the same performance at a more attractive price.

Not trying to knock either player, just stating my opinions on why there may be a market for both.

shinksma

[thehun]

Well this could replace both my Pana BD player and my Oppo 980hd which I use for hirez music playback only.

(This of course assumes you are using the analog outputs of the Oppo, which I believe are required for playback of the hi-res formats. At least they were for all previous models. I've owned all three Oppo units but obviously I can't comment on the BD unit as it's not available yet.)

Oppo made 5 models prior to this, which three that you owned couldn't pass hi rez via HDMI?

[Denophile]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Don't disagree with you, but it does strike me as curious that the expensive Denon and Pioneer units are targetted at 'philes (whether of audio or video pursuasion) with better DACs, video processing, etc. Yet, wouldn't most enthusiasts, or maybe it's only me, really just want a transport that can send out native digital video and audio over HDMI. The Oppo 83 certainly seems like the right unit at the right price. Fingers crossed!

agree 100 percent the uber denon makes no sense as a transport. ths would be the unit to buy--but for me and my parasound c1 the dacs and analog section make a big difference since i run my multichannel in over analog--with an older prepro or great analog pre with ht passthrough the denon would be my choice.

[Denophile]

Originally Posted by shinksma

And there seem to be a lot of folks here on AVS with high-end analog systems that have not "upgraded" to an HDMI system because they have not been satisfied with what is currently available, or simply don't want to invest the considerable coin required. So IMHO the (theorized by me) Denon target market exists.

shinksma

yes--that would be my situation...no audio hdmi!!! video only (for now)