Saga of the "Old Vic"

[KNKKNK]

subscribed

As usual, excellent work Moggie!!

Looks like the Fosi system's pretty slick, and sounds like they have good CS support.

Knowing what you know now.. what is the minimum total thickness do you feel a star ceiling could be built in? Do you see any opprotunity to change the mounts or anything to shrink this thickness? smaller.. possibly thinner panels?. etc .... Or is it fairly optimized already..

Id guess you've at least pondered it.. Im curious what your take is on the possibility of getting much panel resonance with the ceiling ... cause it looks like you might have a little bass in that room

Brad

[JeffC]

Originally Posted by Moggie

The solution: my entry for the ghetto tools contest -- doctor my drywall lift into a star panel lifter. The mushrooms prevented the bending of any of the fibers, which had not yet been cut.

Nice! bout damn time to throw down a little Ghetto!

I am kind of worried about what I had planned now. I was not and can not really have the compression method. I like it very much but won't have access to cinch it tight with my current design How does the seam look now prior to tightening up?

[Moggie]

Brad, Jeff, Glad you have subscribed again

Jeff, the seams turned out very tight and the compression system worked really really well. Here's a closeup of a seam:



And here are a couple of shots of how it all looks now it's hung (I wasn't going to post this until the fiber is cut and I've given the panels a vacuum, but you twisted my arm

[raZorTT]

Looks great Moggie! well done!

[Moggie]

Originally Posted by KNKKNK

subscribed

As usual, excellent work Moggie!!

Looks like the Fosi system's pretty slick, and sounds like they have good CS support.

Knowing what you know now.. what is the minimum total thickness do you feel a star ceiling could be built in? Do you see any opprotunity to change the mounts or anything to shrink this thickness? smaller.. possibly thinner panels?. etc .... Or is it fairly optimized already..

Id guess you've at least pondered it.. Im curious what your take is on the possibility of getting much panel resonance with the ceiling ... cause it looks like you might have a little bass in that room

Brad

Brad, I like the Fosi system (obviously). It is not as tweakable as the micro controlled LED until but there was a number of reasons I went with it: I think it is more realistic looking; the fiber is all 1mm (dimming effects are by the illuminator) and therefore tough. CS at Fosi is really excellent. Also, to me the star ceiling is a lighting fixture. Once working I don't want to tweak it. The only disadvantage I can see is that the default metal halide lamp cannot be dimmed -- you can dim only by using filters. If I really want this in the future I could always change the lamp in the illuminator.

I think you could get away with 5/8" thick panels using the approach I took but you would have to be very careful with the biscuit jointing. My ceiling only hangs down 2 1/4" using the 3/4 ultralight MDF. Alternatively you could go the popular route of using hardboard and framing. The thing is that hardboard always sags over time and if you look at the picture I just posted you can see this ceiling is totally flat. The bottom line was I trusted the experience at Fosi and their advice after building hundreds of these things.

As for resonance, I hope not Of course any panel will have a resonant frequency. Mine are heavy and pretty well damped -- stuffed insulation behind the panels and vented around the edge. The mounts are also damped with the rubber pipe I put over the hanging clips. We shall see what my little tiny weeny subs can do!

[Moggie]

This is the job for tomorrow....

[Audixium]

With each post you are convincing me to NOT do a star ceiling...I mean, how could I ever feel comfortable with mine when you are posting these precision, machine quality, over the top versions of sugar plums dancing in my head?

[Moggie]

Originally Posted by Audixium

With each post you are convincing me to NOT do a star ceiling...I mean, how could I ever feel comfortable with mine when you are posting these precision, machine quality, over the top versions of sugar plums dancing in my head?

Audixium, relax, breathe ... save the compliment for *after* I turn it on Really I'm posting my approach (which is a little different from other techniques I've read) in case it is helpful to to others. One thing I will say is that I severely underestimated the effort involved in such a large ceiling. I've probably put 90+ hours into it so far, but after the hardwood light trays are built I think I'll have a really big smile.

[Moggie]

Well, what a marathon that was... but finally the ceiling is operational. I put in a 11h day today to get the thing wired up, trimmed and to shoot some pics.

The main job was to fit every individual fiber (about 1000 of them) into the illuminator box. The unconnected bundle in this picture is my second comet position above the bar in case the original position becomes too obnoxious. I used almost all of the 3 miles of fiber! The shooting stars and comet were especially time consuming due to deciphering my markings to get the order correct.



And the carnage:



Then the final step was to trim all the fibers in the ceiling. Fosi recommends using a hot wire so the ends of the fiber mushroom and have a wider angle of light output. I really didn't want to risk burning my fabric panels (hot wire cuts GOM FR701 very well indeed ) so I made another ghetto tool to keep the snip length constant and eliminate the chance of burning the panels.



Then spent another hour on the ladder carefully trimming. My 8yo daughter took this shot so I promised to show it.



The result is that all the fibers end up looking like this which are invisible in even a slightly darkened room:



Then the moment of truth and the results of the past two weeks of labor (I also discovered just how hard it is to photograph with a little snappy camera!)



Here's a couple more.

The second one is of my 8 yo. She thought the ceiling looked so real she disappeared for a few minutes, then came back with blanket, drinks, snacks and a orange glow stick (for a fire).
We both sat under the stars and had a picnic! Totally cool!!



I'm going to bed with a big smile on my face tonight.

[DavidinCT]

Very cool....

[raZorTT]

Wow Moggy, looks awesome!

Thanks again for sharing your construction process and photos, they've been a massive help. We cut and made our first star panel to size today, I hope it comes out as well as yours has.

Cheers,
Simon

[Moggie]

Originally Posted by raZorTT

Wow Moggy, looks awesome!

Thanks again for sharing your construction process and photos, they've been a massive help. We cut and made our first star panel to size today, I hope it comes out as well as yours has.

Cheers,
Simon

Simon, no worries mate!

The ceiling looks even better in person with the animation. I'm very pleased. Are you using the Fosi system? Hanging panels with clips like mine? (If so, I have a few ideas/tips that I can share).

Cheers.

[raZorTT]

I'm going to try and follow as close as possible. Do you think using wooden cleats would be possible instead of the aluminium? my soffit is only 250mm down from the ceiling, so using aluminum would drop the star ceiling lower than I would like.

Would love any tips and tricks you might have though!

Cheers,
Simon

[JeffC]

Moggie Moggie Moggie.......I can't take it, once again simply awesome!

[JeffC]

Originally Posted by Moggie

Then the final step was to trim all the fibers in the ceiling. Fosi recommends using a hot wire so the ends of the fiber mushroom and have a wider angle of light output. I really didn't want to risk burning my fabric panels (hot wire cuts GOM FR701 very well indeed ) so I made another ghetto tool to keep the snip length constant and eliminate the chance of burning the panels.

Can you share how to build one of these I suspect just a wie shorting out a dimmer?

All the work payed off that big of ceiling is really cool!

[Sokoloff]

Outrageous! This is yet another "spare no effort" fine touch on your theater. I wish you weren't on the other coast so I could stop by and check it out in all its glory.

Well done Paul!

[Moggie]

Simon (raZorTT), I'll send a PM.

Jeff, the hot wire cutter is actually a loaner from Fosi (I just made the catapolt holder), but it's just a light dimmer and transformer connected to some resistive wire (I believe nichrome is usally used). You can also use a variac instead of the light dimmer. The web is full of DIY plans.

Sokoloff, thank you. Shame about the location, I'd love to show you.

[W00lly]

CRAP I had just about convinced myself I was just going to do a fabric ceiling but after seeing the outcome of your star ceiling I am now really torn AAAaAaAaaAAaaaaa the horror of it all

[jdodd64]

I'm far from building my own home theater but after seeing your ceiling I know I am going to have to put one of those in. The room is looking great.

[dchaves]

That's a seriously good star ceiling. Best I've seen yet.

[mike2060]

Very nice job on everything! You make it looks so easy!

In regards to your LCR being partially enclosed in your screen wall, make sure you stuff around the speakers with insulation or something to make sure the cavity doesn't resonate and make your speakers sound boxy and distort their low end.

[Moggie]

Originally Posted by W00lly

CRAP I had just about convinced myself I was just going to do a fabric ceiling but after seeing the outcome of your star ceiling I am now really torn AAAaAaAaaAAaaaaa the horror of it all

I told you to do a star ceiling. Even posted in your thread It was a lot of work but I'm still smiling!

Originally Posted by jdodd64

I'm far from building my own home theater but after seeing your ceiling I know I am going to have to put one of those in. The room is looking great.

Originally Posted by dchaves

That's a seriously good star ceiling. Best I've seen yet.

Originally Posted by mike2060

Very nice job on everything!

Thanks very much guys.

Originally Posted by mike2060

You make it looks so easy!

The power and illusion of the web, that's all

Originally Posted by mike2060

In regards to your LCR being partially enclosed in your screen wall, make sure you stuff around the speakers with insulation or something to make sure the cavity doesn't resonate and make your speakers sound boxy and distort their low end.

Mike, good point. I was planning to do this. The speaker are in place for some baseline room measurements before treatment. The speakers are recessed about half way, not because of a short room but because I couldn't seem to avoid having the front row of seats at the 50% point. Recessing the speakers helps move the row 18" from the mid point. I did consult the audio forum and klipsch forum and both confirm that these speakers should be fine in this configuration. I guess it is do to with the front radiation pattern of the horn design?

[In2Photos]

Very nice Moggie! And the pic of your daughter is priceless!!! Mine would want to have a "camp out".

[mcascio]

[Subscribed]

Fantastic job Moggie. Great inspiration while I plan out my theater.

[KNKKNK]

Originally Posted by JeffC

Moggie Moggie Moggie.......I can't take it, once again simply awesome!

+1
First Class workmanship all the way, outstanding results...

Originally Posted by W00lly

CRAP I had just about convinced myself I was just going to do a fabric ceiling but after seeing the outcome of your star ceiling I am now really torn AAAaAaAaaAAaaaaa the horror of it all

I think W00lly said it better than I could....AAAaAaAaaAAaaaaa

I had seriously waffeled on a ceiling originally, but wrote it off.. (becasue of Laziness). But you've convinced me to at least make provisions for one. Particullarly since it looks like it can be accomplished in ~2-3" of height.

Brad

P.S. Mega cool picture of the daughter under the stars

[raZorTT]

Thanks again for sharing Moggie!

I was able to start my first panel last night

Map projected onto panel
Countersinking for fibre/glue
When ants attack

Cheers,
Simon

[Moggie]

Brad, I appreciate the thumbs up. One thing I find very inspirational about this forum is the camaraderie and continued pushing to go that extra mile. I know my theater will be better as a result of it. I wonder how many people there are out there thinking about how to incorporate lions into their theater designs, LOL.

Whilst I've been busy on the ceiling, a bunch of packages arrived from bpape (the bulk of the acoustic treatment).



I started cutting the corner traps today but before fitting I wanted to take some baseline measurements, so....

I spent a good part of the day learning REW (Room EQ Wizard) and lugging down some equipment into the theater, then...

Despite reports of seismic activity on the west coast it is really nothing to worry about, I was just running some test tone sweeps through these babies



I purchased these Klipsch subs as part of a package on eBay before deciding on a IB sub up front. Rather than waste them, and after bpape's advice to make provision for a rear sub "just in case" I naturally took the next step and designed in rear subs. I also purchased a SVS EQ1 sub equalizer which is unique in being able to automatically integrate two subs. I plan to periodically take measurements (both with and without the EQ1) as I build the acoustic treatment since I'm curious to understand the benefit of each component. The problem is that after just a couple of minutes of use my USB sound card gave up. I should have a replacement later this week and will continue measurements then

In addition to the subs I also got the LCR's wired up and plugged in a spare Sonos zone player to enjoy some tunes.



The only music that I bare to listen to in such a bare room were live albums so I sat for a while with glass of Chianti and listened to Pink Floyd "Delicate Sound of Thunder" with outrageous uncontrolled base.

[Moggie]

Originally Posted by raZorTT

Thanks again for sharing Moggie!

When ants attack

Cheers,
Simon

LOL. This last photo is funny! Looks like the surface of the moon. In case anyone is wondering Simon had a great idea of counter sinking the rear side of the fiber holes to aid the bending of the fibers and to serve as a pot for glue.

Given that you are down under is that the southern hemisphere star field?

[carboranadum]

The star ceiling looks GREAT! Thanks for the write up.

CJ

[raZorTT]

Originally Posted by Moggie

Given that you are down under is that the southern hemisphere star field?

Hi Moggie,

Spot on! It's a map of the southern sky that I found on http://www.starfinders.com/

I've been meaning to do some measurements with REW in my room before and after treatments. Did you get any where with the software before your sound card gave up?

Cheers,
Simon