[UK] The Prisoner - Complete Series (1967) Coming to Blu-Ray April 27th-

[dougotte]

Originally Posted by wnorris

Well, I'll diasagree...

Maybe it is a little less than 1.5X, but it is definately more than 1.1X.

EDIT: After some poking around, I found that the average size per episode of TOS, including the branching footage, subtitles, lossless audio track, and mono audio track is 8.75 GB per episode.

So if the Prisoner had all of that , you would have to compress more heavily to fit it on a BD25. But I'm not sure it will have the lossless audio (which would save about 1.5 GB there by itself). It also won't have branching material.

So even if TOS is only 10% branching and you remove lossless audio, it makes it 6.5 GB per episode. Close enough that I could easily see the Prisoner having 4 episodes with very high quality transfers on a BD25.

It isn't all doom and gloom.

[Agent86]Would you believe...1.3?[/Agent86]

We reach...you're no Herbert.

BCNU,
Doug

[erkq]

Originally Posted by dougotte

We reach...you're no Herbert.

BCNU,
Doug

GREAT quote! Thanks for the laugh. But enough of inside Trek knowledge... this is a Prisoner thread.

[Franchot]

Originally Posted by JerryElbow

I saw it as a kid when it was first shown in the US and between this and The Avangers, I was convinced that the British were far cooler and far hipper than anyone I knew. I saw it many years later and it seemed like pretentious, pseudo-intellectual tripe. I remember watching some professor-type with a tweed jacket and leather elbow patches going on excitedly about all the metaphors, all the satire and parody and all the references to the government of the time and I thought, this man still lives in his mother's basement, doesn't he?

It reminds me of watching the Blu-Ray discs of the remastered Star Trek: The Original Series, a show that I also watched as a kid when it was originally aired. I went on to watch and enjoy all the other Star Trek series (even Voyager and Enterprise) plus the movies. Then I watched these discs. They looked and sounded incredibly good and I though the re-done special effects really added rather than took away (which they could easily have done). And yet... The writing, direction and the acting are so often just plain awful!

Sometimes, it's best to leave your childhood memories as memories and not try to relive them as an adult. Some things are WAY better as exagerated memories than as disappointing realities.

I think "The Prisoner" holds up remarkably well, especially if you watch just the seven episodes that McGoohan envisioned the series to only be comprised of. He originally wanted only seven shows, a mini-series, but was talked into extending the show so that it almost comprised an entire season. (Supposedly the network wanted 26 episodes and McGoohan got it down to 17.) With that many shows and working under deadlines, they had to come up with something to fill the time which may account for some of the less than stellar scripts.

The Essential Seven are:

1. Arrival
2. Free For All
3. Dance of The Dead
4. Checkmate
5. Chimes Of Big Ben
6. Once Upon A Time
7. Fall Out

I still find the show highly entertaining and am not disappointed in how the show was executed each time I watch it.

[wuther]

The US version promotes the BD as a restoration while the UK says it is from a DVD master.

Is the restoration cliam is just marketing BS?

[dougotte]

Originally Posted by wuther

The US version promotes the BD as a restoration while the UK says it is from a DVD master.

Is the restoration cliam is just marketing BS?

Well, the BDs are based upon Network's masters, which are fairly recent (2006?). They were done for DVD, but hopefully were scanned at a high enough resolution to work for HD as well. I have high hopes about the quality we'll get on BD.

Doug

[wuther]

Originally Posted by dougotte

Well, the BDs are based upon Network's masters, which are fairly recent (2006?). They were done for DVD, but hopefully were scanned at a high enough resolution to work for HD as well. I have high hopes about the quality we'll get on BD.

If that is the case I read it as not restorated and was made to look good on DVD, maybe meaning the usual filtering for DVD crap.

Every DVD Master was 'restorated' at one point but for a much lesser standard.

As usual I will wait for screenshots before buying.

[shiftyeyes]

As Doug mentioned, Network did do a pretty spiffy restoration for their 2006 re-release. I don't know what resolution they were done at, but the improvement over the original DVDs (the only ones released in the US) is rather drastic.

http://www.networkdvd.co.uk/prisoner/priscomparison.htm

EDIT: I found this article that details the restoration and confirms that the series was scanned at HD (though the exact resolution isn't mentioned).

http://www.its-prof-again.co.uk/The_...r_restored.htm

[wuther]

"Once each episode was transferred to tape, it would then have a number of processes used to 'despot' the visuals to produce a smoother, cleaner image. Video noise reduction was applied (but minimally to retain some grain, keeping the 'film' look) "

Ugh! Sounds like the usual DVD 'improvements' baked into the master, HD does not need such flters as far as I am concerned.

[Franchot]

UK version delayed one week from 9/21 to 9/28.

[Pecker]

Originally Posted by wuther

"Once each episode was transferred to tape, it would then have a number of processes used to 'despot' the visuals to produce a smoother, cleaner image. Video noise reduction was applied (but minimally to retain some grain, keeping the 'film' look) "

Ugh! Sounds like the usual DVD 'improvements' baked into the master, HD does not need such flters as far as I am concerned.

My understanding is that every Blu-ray Disc you've ever seen has had some noise reduction applied - I'm sure I've seen some of the people who work in the field post that.

Steve W

[hlindstr]

Dvdtimes.co.uk's review of UK version with 1920x1080 jpg screen captures.

[Filmmaker]

Originally Posted by hlindstr

Dvdtimes.co.uk's review of UK version with 1920x1080 jpg screen captures.

Hmm, the issue isn't addressed in the review proper but the spec list on the left-hand side seems to support it being Region B locked. We desperately need someone to definitively confirm this a.s.a.p.

[Stevie76]

Originally Posted by hlindstr

Dvdtimes.co.uk's review of UK version with 1920x1080 jpg screen captures.

Looking damn good to me

Ordered!!

[dougotte]

Looks good, but that review seems to confirm that the audio is only DD5.1/DD1.0 and not lossless. Too bad about that.

Doug

[Stevie76]

I don´t think we would benefit from a lossless track on an old british TV show originally recorded and aired in Mono.
It´s not exactly Battlestar Galactica

[dougotte]

Originally Posted by Stevie76

I don´t think we would benefit from a lossless track on an old british TV show originally recorded and aired in Mono.
It´s not exactly Battlestar Galactica

I really don't understand your argument, Stevie. I'll ignore the BG reference, as it doesn't have anything to do w/ it.

They no doubt have the original mono soundtrack in a lossless analogue format. To give it to us in a lossless compressed format would keep it as close to the original as possible. To reduce the quality by giving us a lossy DD format means it won't sound as good as it could. Understand?

Maybe you can't hear the difference, but I can. There is a difference between lossless and lossy compression.

Doug

[erkq]

Originally Posted by dougotte

Maybe you can't hear the difference, but I can.
Doug

I'd be surprised. Information lost in lossy compression is phase, frequency response and masked sounds. It's unlikely there's any content above 8kHz or so. It may well be less than even that. Phase is important for imaging. There's no imaging in a mono track. And I don't think anyone can hear through masked sounds.

Also, I'm surprised you've heard a lossy and a loss-less Prisoner soundtrack already. Did you A/B them?

[dougotte]

Originally Posted by erkq

I'd be surprised. Information lost in lossy compression is phase, frequency response and masked sounds. It's unlikely there's any content above 8kHz or so. It may well be less than even that. Phase is important for imaging. There's no imaging in a mono track. And I don't think anyone can hear through masked sounds.

Also, I'm surprised you've heard a lossy and a loss-less Prisoner soundtrack already. Did you A/B them?

I'll take that question as sarcasm. Of course, I haven't. We wouldn't be having this discussion it the lossless soundtrack were available.

What I have heard is a lossless mono soundtrack (The Third Man) compared to many years of lossy mono soundtracks (e.g. Charade). They're not the same film, they're not even from the same era (but they were both released by Criterion, FWIW). The lossless soundtrack on The Third Man was much more clear and intelligible than Charade. As I said in a previous post, I'm assuming that the Prisoner's original soundtrack quality is good.

BTW, thanks for the info about phase, frequency response and masked sounds being lost. I learned something new.

Doug

[Stevie76]

Originally Posted by dougotte

Maybe you can't hear the difference, but I can. There is a difference between lossless and lossy compression.

yeah, I would love to see you spot the difference between an lossy and lossless version of the Prisoner soundtrack without knowing what version is playing when switching between them

I can tell the difference between lossy and lossless, but it has to be something with a more dynamic soundtrack. On a lot of titles it´s hardly ANY difference turning it into placebo

Not going to lose any sleep over this one

[Stevie76]

Originally Posted by dougotte

What I have heard is a lossless mono soundtrack (The Third Man) compared to many years of lossy mono soundtracks (e.g. Charade). They're not the same film, they're not even from the same era (but they were both released by Criterion, FWIW). The lossless soundtrack on The Third Man was much more clear and intelligible than Charade.

Yes they are released by the same company but they are DIFFERENT movies and soundtracks

You are supposed to compare the lossy and the lossless of the same damn soundtrack

A lossless track can also sound much worse than a lossy newly remastered soundtrack of the same movie.
It´s all in the mixing and the quality in the original sound elements.

[wnorris]

Originally Posted by hlindstr

Dvdtimes.co.uk's review of UK version with 1920x1080 jpg screen captures.

Well, that clearly contradicts what the SonyDADC guy told me. A&E and Network neither one replied to my customer service inquiry for more details on the release.

My questions are, is it really 850 minutes, indicating PAL speedup or slowdown, depending on how it is approached (I believe it was shot on 35mm at 24 fps).

I also question what is on the A&E set, that it can list the same features (plus a preview of the new mini-series), and have one fewer disc.

[colossus]

Anybody pick up the UK release yet? Is it region locked? I'd like a second source for that before I decide to pass/buy.

[shiftyeyes]

Originally Posted by wnorris

Well, that clearly contradicts what the SonyDADC guy told me. A&E and Network neither one replied to my customer service inquiry for more details on the release.

My questions are, is it really 850 minutes, indicating PAL speedup or slowdown, depending on how it is approached (I believe it was shot on 35mm at 24 fps).

I also question what is on the A&E set, that it can list the same features (plus a preview of the new mini-series), and have one fewer disc.

Someone posted earlier that the Network set is spread over six BD-25s, while the A&E set essentially has the same first four discs but puts the fifth and sixth ones on a single BD-50 and includes a preview for the new miniseries remake.

[wnorris]

Originally Posted by shiftyeyes

Someone posted earlier that the Network set is spread over six BD-25s, while the A&E set essentially has the same first four discs but puts the fifth and sixth ones on a single BD-50 and includes a preview for the new miniseries remake.

That was me because that is what a SonyDADC rep (and SonyDADC handles the Network BD releases) told me. However the linked review says the 6 discs are all BD50's on the UK release, which contradicts what I was told.

So according to the A&E press release, they have the exact same extras (plus a Prisoner mini-series preview), so how is it all fitting on 5 discs instead of 6?

The only thing I can think of is if the UK set actually did something as far fetched as spreading it out needlessly over six discs, because the Prisoner is Number Six.

[Franchot]

Originally Posted by wnorris

The only thing I can think of is if the UK set actually did something as far fetched as spreading it out needlessly over six discs, because the Prisoner is Number Six.

This is what someone posted at Amazon.com pertaining to the 5 and 6 disc difference. Take if for what it's worth.

"UK edition has 4 Blu Ray discs, plus two standard definition DVDs for the extras. Because A&E will be needing to do their own region 1 format NTSC discs for the extra features, they may be doing their own decisions on how they are presented."

[wnorris]

Originally Posted by Franchot

This is what someone posted at Amazon.com pertaining to the 5 and 6 disc difference. Take if for what it's worth.

"UK edition has 4 Blu Ray discs, plus two standard definition DVDs for the extras. Because A&E will be needing to do their own region 1 format NTSC discs for the extra features, they may be doing their own decisions on how they are presented."

According to the linked DVDTimes review, the UK set is 6 BD50 discs.

[thirdkind]

Originally Posted by wnorris

According to the linked DVDTimes review, the UK set is 6 BD50 discs.

Which is awesome because it means the encode wasn't bit-starved after all. Plenty of room to breathe for the entire series plus extras.

I received my shipping notification from Amazon UK a few days ago, so I should have the set in my hands sometime next week.

I also have the BSG UK box set on the way ($40 cheaper than Amazon US after shipping!), plus Firefly (US), so I'll be busy for a while

[colossus]

Confirmed. Region locked.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...er_blu-ray.htm

[thirdkind]

I'm very pleased with those screenshots. Looks to be an outstanding transfer.

[wnorris]

Originally Posted by colossus

Confirmed. Region locked.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...er_blu-ray.htm

The 6th Disc Mystery Solved!

Disc 6 is a 2.84 Gig single-layered DVD that some players have had issue with because of the inclusion of the imbedded PDF documentation.