300: the ultimate experience 7/24

[jrcorwin]

Originally Posted by darkedgex

I'm sorry you'd rather they continue using a shovelware mentality when it comes to these titles.

Let's not freak out about this. I would simply prefer that they utilize their time and resources on titles which either need an initial encode or titles which were obviously flawed the first time around. I personally see no need spend time on new encode that may result in changes not even noticeable to the naked eye. There is no need to sensationalize the argument. There is no need to accuse me of having a "shovelware mentality" either. I simply prefer the prioritize the encodes based on need...a new encode for 300 is nowhere near the top of that list IMO.

[Mark A Gonzalez]

The film grain was so bad on this movie that I was constantly distracted by it and I was unable to enjoy the movie. I like the movie and I know the grain was intentionally put there by the director but I wont buy the movie unless they release a version without it.

[jrcorwin]

Originally Posted by Mark A Gonzalez

The film grain was so bad on this movie that I was constantly distracted by it and I was unable to enjoy the movie. I like the movie and I know the grain was intentionally put there by the director but I wont buy the movie unless they release a version without it.

It will never happen. It's a part of the film now. That is the look they were trying to achieve. I see no reason why they would want to change that now. I could see it if they had failed at achieve the look they were looking for, but they didn't.

[Pugnax555]

Originally Posted by jrcorwin

Let's not freak out about this. I would simply prefer that they utilize their time and resources on titles which either need an initial encode or titles which were obviously flawed the first time around. I personally see no need spend time on new encode that may result in changes not even noticeable to the naked eye. There is no need to sensationalize the argument. There is no need to accuse me of having a "shovelware mentality" either. I simply prefer the prioritize the encodes based on need...a new encode for 300 is nowhere near the top of that list IMO.

Couldn't agree more. Sure, a new encode would be nice. But if you have to stare at the background in the corner of the screen during a heavy action scene to see a small amount of blocking, I think you have your priorities slightly skewed. I'd much rather they devote their resources to working on encodes of movies that aren't available on BD at all. Now, if this were a Fifth Element type of case, I might be saying something different. But it's not.

[darkedgex]

Originally Posted by jrcorwin

Let's not freak out about this. I would simply prefer that they utilize their time and resources on titles which either need an initial encode or titles which were obviously flawed the first time around. I personally see no need spend time on new encode that may result in changes not even noticeable to the naked eye. There is no need to sensationalize the argument. There is no need to accuse me of having a "shovelware mentality" either. I simply prefer the prioritize the encodes based on need...a new encode for 300 is nowhere near the top of that list IMO.

Not freaking out. And to be clear, I wasn't saying you have a shovelware mentality, but that you seemed to be supporting the studios having that mentality. =)

As for the argument, again, they're packaging this new version and charging a premium for it. As a consumer I think my money should go towards a new encode (not a new master or anything fancy, no need to bring out the DNR or edge enhancement filters; just run it through the encoder again). I don't think my money should go straight in to some studio execs trust fund for his kids. :P Now, if they were giving this away, I'd see your point about not wanting them to waste time, but it's not free, so I don't see your point. =)

[tutelary]

Originally Posted by Mark A Gonzalez

The film grain was so bad on this movie that I was constantly distracted by it and I was unable to enjoy the movie. I like the movie and I know the grain was intentionally put there by the director but I wont buy the movie unless they release a version without it.

This film would lose half its appeal if it weren't dirty and gritty, with excessive bloom.

[MovieSwede]

Originally Posted by darkedgex

As for the argument, again, they're packaging this new version and charging a premium for it. As a consumer I think my money should go towards a new encode (not a new master or anything fancy, no need to bring out the DNR or edge enhancement filters; just run it through the encoder again). I don't think my money should go straight in to some studio execs trust fund for his kids. :P Now, if they were giving this away, I'd see your point about not wanting them to waste time, but it's not free, so I don't see your point. =)

There is still economic side of this.

This is a release that not only is a catalog title, and its not only a catalog title its also a catalog title that has been released on BD. I dont think the salesnumber of this one will motivate the studios for a new encode.

They are releasing this one so BD buyers can get the PiP track. Not to reencode something that doesnt warrant a reencode. Other releases do need reencodes.

Sure you may want a reencode, but I doubt the people that somehow feels a reenode is important to be anywere near the numbers that actually would make a reencode profitable, compared to just releasing this with the PiP.

Even Michael Bay thought the 300 release rocked.

[SlaughterX]

So I wonder when the original version will go OOP, I'm guessing they will just sell this version in the future, doesn't really make sense having both on the market. Also I don't think there's anything wrong with them updating a movie and changing the packaging as time goes on. I already own it and I don't think it's worth buying again, but for people that don't have it why not have a better version of it? I think they should try to keep the prices even though, obviously the old disc will be discounted when this newer version comes out (which is also good becasue people who don't care about the extras will still be able to get the movie for cheap), but they shouldn't try to price it above the MSRP of the original movie.

Anyway Hankey what is your reponse about the I Am Legend re-encode that looks no different than the original release but runs at a higher bit rate?

[Mr. Hanky]

I'm not exactly familiar with that situation, but I do know there were some strange things going on in that encode, as well. (If I recall correctly, there was an issue of how the codec was responding to low light/dark scenes in combination with little to no grain in the image.)

If there was to be a new "ultimate" edition of that, I would expect a new, improved encode (improved in whatever aspects you care to be concerned about), as opposed to simply repackaging whatever was in prior circulation. Otherwise, I question to the whole point of making these "ultimate" sku's, if the previous product was evidently A-Ok.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by darkedgex

As a consumer I think my money should go towards a new encode (not a new master or anything fancy, no need to bring out the DNR or edge enhancement filters; just run it through the encoder again). I don't think my money should go straight in to some studio execs trust fund for his kids. :P Now, if they were giving this away, I'd see your point about not wanting them to waste time, but it's not free, so I don't see your point. =)

Nailed it. Listen you soft and lazy brothers at WARN-HER.

[JBlacklow]

Warner Home Video have announced the US Blu-ray Disc release of 300: The Complete Experience on 21st July 2009. Zack Synder’s adaptation of Frank Miller’s graphic novel is given another release on Blu-ray to coincide with the home video launch of Watchmen.

300: The Complete Experience boasts some 2 hours of exclusive extra content as detailed below…

The Complete 300: A Comprehensive Immersion - This NEW interactive picture-in-picture experience provides 3 unique perspectives to explore while you watch the film:
--Creating a Legend - Frank Miller and Zack Snyder Interpret a Classic Tale - Holding true to Frank Miller’s love of history and the importance of bringing a pure adaptation to screen in this tale-based account.
--Bringing the Legend to Life - Building a World From a Comic - Blending the most talented and creative minds together to bring Frank Miller’s art to life in cinematic form.
--The History Behind the Myth - The Real Story of The Hot Gates - A rich and historical perspective on the Spartans and this legendary landmark.

Plus these additional special features:

* BD-Live: Media Centre; Live Community Screening; My WB Commentary
* Bluescreen Picture-In-Picture - Join Director Zack Snyder on a personal and fascinating commentary as he compares the Bluescreen composite to the feature
* Audio Commentary by Director Zack Snyder, Writer Kurt Johnstad and Director of Photography Larry Fong.
* The 300- Fact or Fiction? - Historians, authors and filmmakers reveal how much of the movie is based on fact. (RT: 24:12) {HD}
* Who Were The Spartans: The Warriors of 300 - The customs and ways of life of the Spartan used by the actors and filmmakers to build their characters. (RT: 6:00) (HD}
* Preparing for Battle: The Original Test Footage - See how Frank Miller’s images were used in an video montage that evolved into the fight scene test and ultimately convinced the studio to make the movie. (RT: 6:10) {HD}
* Frank Miller Tapes - We'll show how the outspoken Miller continued to push his limits to realize his epic graphic novel, 300, in the world of theatrical film. (RT: 13:00) {HD}
* Making of 300 - A look at how the movie was made. (RT: 5:40)
* Making 300 in Images - Rapid fire stills from the first day of production to the last. (RT 3:00)
* Webisodes - Behind the scenes peeks on the set of 300. (RT: 20:00) Production Design; Wardrobe; Stunt Work; Lena Headey; Adapting The Graphic Novel; Gerard Butler; Rodrigo Santoro; Training The Actors; Culture of The Sparta City/State; A Glimpse from the Set - Making 300 the Movie; Scene Studies from 300; Fantastic Characters of 300.
* Additional Footage - Deleted Scenes with Introduction by Zack Snyder (RT: 5:31) {HD}
* 40-Page collectible book packaging includes a comprehensive walk-through of the new cutting-edge Blu-ray features, behind the scenes and production photos AND never-before-seen sketches from creator Frank Miller.


The film is presented in 1080P 2.40:1 Widescreen with English and French 5.1 Dolby TrueHD, English and Spanish 5.1 Dolby Digital and English, French and Spanish subtitles.

http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=70649

[AmishFury]

ok so they are adding more than just the IME from the HD DVD

[jvc]

Originally Posted by giantchicken

Don't like Warner's book versions. They just don't sit right on the shelf next to the rest of my collection.

I'll be getting this, anyway. But it won't really make sense sitting next to Shawshank Redemption.

I prefer that over gigantic boxes with books and toys!

[ctiq21]

I hope they have a new encode. Arguments over comparison screen shots would be classic!

[lgans316]

New encode would be welcome but it looks like the PCM track will be gone.

[giantchicken]

I'm very pleased with that list of special features--as I don't own the film on Blu-ray, this will be a no brainer compared to the existing version.

[jrcorwin]

They should offer a new encode...remove all of the grain that was added...change the Spartans to Russians...and invert the colors.

[x43x]

Out today! On the Best Buy site, there are two versions shown. One of which has a BB Exclusive tag on the top. Can't really see what else it says since the print is so small. Anyone have a clue as to what the exclusive part is?

[mhafner]

Originally Posted by tutelary

Sure, but did you look at the "HF-view analysis" pictures on page 2? It's crazy talk. When you move from real screenshots that actually show disparity between product to something like that it's crazy. Come back when theres real product to show that actually improves the picture. Till then stop the absurd drivel.

It's no secret that a 17 Mbit/s average VC-1 encode of grainy material does not match a 25 or 30 Mbit/s encode of equal quality (as far as effectively using the available bits is concerned) and there are visible differences due to loss of accuracy and additional compression artifacts. It's also no secret that WB is in love with < 20 Mbit/s average encodes while the competition regularly opts for > 20, even 30 and more at times. WB does not have better encoders or compressionists. Why they aim low is their secret. I know they leave quality on the table with this, unnecessarily.

[jokerfish]

Originally Posted by x43x

Out today! On the Best Buy site, there are two versions shown. One of which has a BB Exclusive tag on the top. Can't really see what else it says since the print is so small. Anyone have a clue as to what the exclusive part is?

I believe its a comic book.

[absurd_username]

Originally Posted by Mark A Gonzalez

The film grain was so bad on this movie that I was constantly distracted by it and I was unable to enjoy the movie. I like the movie and I know the grain was intentionally put there by the director but I wont buy the movie unless they release a version without it.

To truly appreciate this movie it greatly helps to be a fan and collector of Comic Books. This movie is based on Frank Miller's graphic novel '300'. I myself don't actually have my own copy of 300 (I haven't collected comics since '92) but have collected some of Frank Miller's other works from the 80's on.

This movie was done so 'Right' it just blew my mind. Presenting it as a 'regular' movie without the grain and stylization to me would have given the content much less impact.

Asking to remove the grain from 300 would be akin to removing 'Bullet Time' from the Matrix movies or wanting to see a color version Schindler's List.

Do a google images search of 'Frank Miller' and '300 graphic novel' and you will see what his style of artwork is and then you can better appreciate why 300 looks the way it did.

Here are a couple of images from the Graphic Novel
Take note of Frank Miller's use of black crush and 'grittiness' of the images:





The next time you are in a book store go find the 'Graphic Novels' section and browse through a copy of 300, Sin City and The Dark Knight if they have them.

[MovieSwede]

Originally Posted by mhafner

It's no secret that a 17 Mbit/s average VC-1 encode of grainy material does not match a 25 or 30 Mbit/s encode of equal quality

What do you mean by matching?

Matching by screencap comp? Matching during playback?

Because I would be very impressed if someone can se the difference between 17 and 25 mbit in a blindtest, if everything is equal.

Just look at Disneys encode of the Prestige, and Warners encode of the same movie.

It seems like everyone believes that just because an encode is at a certain bitrate it impossible to retain the same quality with a lower bitrate.

Everyone that has encoded something, knows that when you reduce bitrate, its not automaticly quality that suffers, but the encoding time.

Bitrate in cases like this are not just a result from a quality standard, but a bitbudget that the compressionist are given. If you look at individual movies, you can see that a movies bitrate is often more effected if its on a BD25 or a BD50, then on how long and complicated the actual movie is to encode.

[darkedgex]

Hopefully we'll have some definitive word here soon as to whether or not a new encode was done for this release. If so, I'll likely grab it, otherwise it's an obvious pass.

[paku]

Originally Posted by darkedgex

Hopefully we'll have some definitive word here soon as to whether or not a new encode was done for this release. If so, I'll likely grab it, otherwise it's an obvious pass.

New encode? From Warner? Surely you jest.

DVD Beaver already reviewed the disc and it's the same encode (video bitrate of 16.80 Mbps matches exactly with the old one.)

[butsu]

The pakage is looking great,I love this Zack Snyder all films,will also pick this one.

[deltasun]

Originally Posted by paku

New encode? From Warner? Surely you jest.

DVD Beaver already reviewed the disc and it's the same encode (video bitrate of 16.80 Mbps matches exactly with the old one.)

It also still defaults to DD 5.1 instead of TrueHD.

[EvlAsh]

Originally Posted by jokerfish

I believe its a comic book.

Does anyone know if the Best Buy Exclusive comic is the complete graphic novel or just one issue of the mini-series?

[mhafner]

Originally Posted by MovieSwede

What do you mean by matching?
Matching by screencap comp? Matching during playback?

During playback.

It seems like everyone believes that just because an encode is at a certain bitrate it impossible to retain the same quality with a lower bitrate.

That depends on what you compress and how you compress.

Everyone that has encoded something, knows that when you reduce bitrate, its not automaticly quality that suffers, but the encoding time.

If you care. And there is a limit where more time does not fix issues. You think WB is happy to invest a lot of time in each encode so they can brag to have the lowest average bit rates among the big studios and still look as good? And the other studios are just lazy and encode at higher rates so they can save time?

Bitrate in cases like this are not just a result from a quality standard, but a bitbudget that the compressionist are given. If you look at individual movies, you can see that a movies bitrate is often more effected if its on a BD25 or a BD50, then on how long and complicated the actual movie is to encode.

And why do you think WB is giving the compressionists so often bit budgets that result in these < 20 Mbit/s averages? Even if there is space on the disk to allow more?

[ZebraMajor]

Originally Posted by EvlAsh

Does anyone know if the Best Buy Exclusive comic is the complete graphic novel or just one issue of the mini-series?

It's a little mini-comic about the same size as the digi-book. Not sure if it's new material or a reprint of a previous comic. It's definitely NOT the complete graphic novel. It's thin like a normal comic book but smaller in size (HxW).

[EvlAsh]

Originally Posted by ZebraMajor

It's a little mini-comic about the same size as the digi-book. Not sure if it's new material or a reprint of a previous comic. It's definitely NOT the complete graphic novel. It's thin like a normal comic book but smaller in size (HxW).

Thanks. It sounds like it's just one issue of the mini-series -- similar to what WB did with the Target Exclusive of V for Vendetta. I guess I'll just get it from DD.

Thanks again.