HF10 vs HF S10?

AbMagFab · 05-30-09, 08:23 PM

Okay - I currently own an HF10. I'm going on a long family vacation in about 3 weeks, and trying to determine if the HF S10 is worth upgrading to?

There's very little information regarding a direct comparison.

The most I found was:
- HF10 was better than the HF11/HF20
- HF S10 is great

That's about it. The specs on the S10 look good, but so does the HF20, and yet it was deemed worse than the HF10.

I'm unable to get my hands on one here, so I'm looking for feedback on whether the picture quality (at highest settings) is noticably better than the HF10? Money isn't really an issue, but I'd prefer not to waste it if I end up with something very similar to the HF10 I already own.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

xfws · 05-30-09, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbMagFab

Okay - I currently own an HF10...
The most I found was:
- HF10 was better than the HF11/HF20
- HF S10 is great

The HF11 can do 24mbps vs. 17mbps max on the HF10. There is a bump in quality, but not a huge difference. The HFS10 also can do 24mbps.

The HFS10 has many manual controls including zebra stripes to aid with exposure. It has a dial that can be used for manual focus or other functions. And it can shoot 8 megapixel stills which is sufficient as a still camera.

You can go over the features at the Canon site:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...delFeaturesAct

From handling the HFS10 and HF S100 the build is not very good; fragile LCD/cheap body. That was enough to turn me off to it. You should handle one yourself, maybe you won't have the same impression.

I don't think it's worth upgrading, but you can ask people in the HFS10 owner's thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1139528&page=4

AbMagFab · 05-31-09, 07:38 AM

Thanks - posted there!

Maxion · 06-01-09, 04:02 PM

Also note that it looks like the Canon's low light sensitivity took a slight turn for the worse in 2009. The HF10 / HF11 from 2008 needed only 10 lux to do 50 IRE at 60i, while the HF S10 / HF S100 from 2009 need 16 lux to do 50 IRE (according to camcorderino.com). Maybe not a huge difference, but with the bigger sensor on the 2009s you might expect better. I guess the pixels are packed more tightly or something.

I need low light capability primarily, so I may be choosing between the 2008 Canon HF11 and the 2009 Panasonic HDC-TM300.

Maxion

AbMagFab · 06-01-09, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxion

Also note that it looks like the Canon's low light sensitivity took a slight turn for the worse in 2009. The HF10 / HF11 from 2008 needed only 10 lux to do 50 IRE at 60i, while the HF S10 / HF S100 from 2009 need 16 lux to do 50 IRE (according to camcorderino.com). Maybe not a huge difference, but with the bigger sensor on the 2009s you might expect better. I guess the pixels are packed more tightly or something.

I need low light capability primarily, so I may be choosing between the 2008 Canon HF11 and the 2009 Panasonic HDC-TM300.

Maxion

I could sell you my HF10 for cheap! I'm probably getting the S10 this week.

Larryad · 06-01-09, 10:40 PM

When you do buy one, let us know what you think. I currently have the HF10 and was wondering how big a difference there might be. The videos on Vimeo look mighty good and they are reduced in size from the original files.

vipfit · 06-02-09, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbMagFab

I could sell you my HF10 for cheap! I'm probably getting the S10 this week.

oh i'm really interested, let me know how much!

vipfit · 06-02-09, 11:28 PM

hey abmag, your pm inbox is full!

avsxer · 06-30-09, 04:26 PM

Which sources did you use to get to such conclusion?

- HF10 was better than the HF11/HF20
HF20 is far more superior than HF10, HF11 and even HF-S10 in terms of video resolution, standing close to pro cams. But it does lack low light sensitivity in 60i mode, with effective workaround: switch to 30p or 24p mode and it's the same as HF S10. Plus it has 15x zoom.

- HF S10 is great
HF-S10 is better in low light and photo, but shoots at slightly lower video resolution than HF20 and has only 10x zoom.

Get the HF20 and save a dollar!

Taken from inet:
"The Canon HF20 has the best video resolution we've ever recorded on a consumer camcorder and its scores are comparable to some of the professional models (Sony HDR-FX1000 and Canon XL H1A). The camcorder measured an approximate video resolution of 800 line widths per picture height (lw/ph) horizontal and 900 lw/ph vertical. This is a huge bump up from the 675 lw/ph horizontal and 600 lw/ph vertical recorded by last year's Canon HF11

One surprising note from our testing was the disparity between the Canon HF20 performance and the Canon HF S100. Both camcorders had identical horizontal resolutions (800 lw/ph), but the HF S100 ran into some early trouble with the vertical lines on our resolution chart and recorded a significantly lower vertical resolution. This disparity is strange because the HF S100 has a roughly 50% higher effective pixel count than the HF20 (6.01-megapixels vs. 3.89-megapixels). Still, pixel counts are only one aspect for determining video resolution, and other things like processing and lens quality also come into play."

(note: HFS100 is similar to HFS10 but without internal memory.)

05-30-09, 08:23 PM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
AbMagFab AVS Special Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 4,413	HF10 vs HF S10? Okay - I currently own an HF10. I'm going on a long family vacation in about 3 weeks, and trying to determine if the HF S10 is worth upgrading to? There's very little information regarding a direct comparison. The most I found was: - HF10 was better than the HF11/HF20 - HF S10 is great That's about it. The specs on the S10 look good, but so does the HF20, and yet it was deemed worse than the HF10. I'm unable to get my hands on one here, so I'm looking for feedback on whether the picture quality (at highest settings) is noticably better than the HF10? Money isn't really an issue, but I'd prefer not to waste it if I end up with something very similar to the HF10 I already own. Thanks in advance for any advice! __________________ HTPC HDMI HD Audio + Video Roundup Thread - Last Update 12/5/2008 - sadly nothing has really changed since then... Easy Popcorn Hour setup trying to achieve XBMC/Xbox usability - Last Update 10/8/2009

05-31-09, 07:38 AM	#3 \| Link
AbMagFab AVS Special Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 4,413	Thanks - posted there! __________________ HTPC HDMI HD Audio + Video Roundup Thread - Last Update 12/5/2008 - sadly nothing has really changed since then... Easy Popcorn Hour setup trying to achieve XBMC/Xbox usability - Last Update 10/8/2009

06-01-09, 04:02 PM	#4 \| Link
Maxion Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 33	Also note that it looks like the Canon's low light sensitivity took a slight turn for the worse in 2009. The HF10 / HF11 from 2008 needed only 10 lux to do 50 IRE at 60i, while the HF S10 / HF S100 from 2009 need 16 lux to do 50 IRE (according to camcorderino.com). Maybe not a huge difference, but with the bigger sensor on the 2009s you might expect better. I guess the pixels are packed more tightly or something. I need low light capability primarily, so I may be choosing between the 2008 Canon HF11 and the 2009 Panasonic HDC-TM300. Maxion

06-01-09, 10:40 PM	#6 \| Link
Larryad Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 305	When you do buy one, let us know what you think. I currently have the HF10 and was wondering how big a difference there might be. The videos on Vimeo look mighty good and they are reduced in size from the original files.

06-02-09, 11:28 PM	#8 \| Link
vipfit New Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5	hey abmag, your pm inbox is full!

06-30-09, 04:26 PM	#9 \| Link
avsxer New Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6	Which sources did you use to get to such conclusion? - HF10 was better than the HF11/HF20 HF20 is far more superior than HF10, HF11 and even HF-S10 in terms of video resolution, standing close to pro cams. But it does lack low light sensitivity in 60i mode, with effective workaround: switch to 30p or 24p mode and it's the same as HF S10. Plus it has 15x zoom. - HF S10 is great HF-S10 is better in low light and photo, but shoots at slightly lower video resolution than HF20 and has only 10x zoom. Get the HF20 and save a dollar! Taken from inet: "The Canon HF20 has the best video resolution we've ever recorded on a consumer camcorder and its scores are comparable to some of the professional models (Sony HDR-FX1000 and Canon XL H1A). The camcorder measured an approximate video resolution of 800 line widths per picture height (lw/ph) horizontal and 900 lw/ph vertical. This is a huge bump up from the 675 lw/ph horizontal and 600 lw/ph vertical recorded by last year's Canon HF11 One surprising note from our testing was the disparity between the Canon HF20 performance and the Canon HF S100. Both camcorders had identical horizontal resolutions (800 lw/ph), but the HF S100 ran into some early trouble with the vertical lines on our resolution chart and recorded a significantly lower vertical resolution. This disparity is strange because the HF S100 has a roughly 50% higher effective pixel count than the HF20 (6.01-megapixels vs. 3.89-megapixels). Still, pixel counts are only one aspect for determining video resolution, and other things like processing and lens quality also come into play." (note: HFS100 is similar to HFS10 but without internal memory.)