FOX HD live sports - Stutter or 24p effect

Johnny5.1 · 07-18-09, 04:24 PM

Watching the Angels/A's game on FOX in the Los Angeles market. Is anybody else noticing this effect on some of their cameras? Some have the normal video look to it while the main cam and a couple of others appear to have a slight stutter or almost 24p movie effect. I'm starting to think this is intentional. It was happening during the All-Star game, and another FOX Saturday game the week prior. I don't know, just kind of weird and distracting for my taste. Or maybe it's just a local issue.

butsy23 · 07-18-09, 09:32 PM

I noticed the same thing on my Fox HD Comcast signal here in Northern Virginia during the All Star Game. Major stuttering effect any ideas or explanations would be helpful

theo871 · 07-18-09, 09:54 PM

I have noticed this too, and find it highly distracting.

localnet · 07-18-09, 10:20 PM

Same here, when watching ESPN, Cubs game. Switched over to another game, forget the channel, no issues. I would say the problem is at the source, not your set.

Mike

butsy23 · 07-18-09, 10:33 PM

hmmm, yeah its only when I watch Fox baseball in HD. No issues on any other programming.

TVOD · 07-19-09, 04:08 PM

Almost sounds like the camera shutter speed is higher than 1/60th second. Is the motion still smooth, or is a bit jerky (like 30P or 24P)?

sneals2000 · 07-19-09, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVOD

Almost sounds like the camera shutter speed is higher than 1/60th second. Is the motion still smooth, or is a bit jerky (like 30P or 24P)?

Could they be cutting 180Hz SuperSloMo cameras up live? (They often look horrid live as they output every 1/3rd 180Hz frame - with a very short shutter setting)

Johnny5.1 · 07-19-09, 06:32 PM

No, i'm certain it has nothing to do with a higher shutter speed setting that the super slow mo cameras posess. Its on the main center field camera and has more to do with a movie like slow film non video appearance is the best way i can describe it. Kinda like what producers will apply when showing halftime/postgame montage highlights.

maestro73 · 07-20-09, 04:19 PM

I noticed this on all recent Fox MLB broadcasts as well. However, when I switch to the OTA feed it seems to not happen. I'm on Comcast. Maybe it's a Comcast thing?

Johnny5.1 · 07-20-09, 05:00 PM

I'll check my OTA status the next broadcast. I watch through Charter Cable.

Doug14 · 08-05-09, 08:21 PM

The effect has now spread to ESPN... I'm currently watching the Sox-Rays game on Cox HD Cable in San Diego and every camera angle has the bizarre 24p effect that I've noticed on all games on Fox since the game the OP referenced.

I found this forum after Googling randomly to try to figure out what's going on with HD MLB broadcasts this year. Glad to see I'm not the only one who's noticed it, but I'm also shocked that none of the major baseball writers have written anything about it.

KCotton · 08-08-09, 07:14 PM

I have the same problem as the original post. "Stutter" effect only on Fox MLB broadcasts from the centerfield camera. First noticed it on the All-Star game broadcast and has continued since. Watching on Comcast in Charleston, SC.

ABCTV99 · 08-08-09, 09:26 PM

Most broadcast cameras that can handle 24p have to be configured to do so at the CCU. It's not something that can be easily done, or a switch that can be accidentally hit while on air, even on the Thomsons which are format switchable at the camera head. Furthermore the truck would likely have to be configured to handle a true 24fps signal, or introduce some sort of pulldown from 30i or 60p. It's also highly unlikely people in the truck wouldn't notice this, or the camera op for that matter. I would almost chalk the choppiness up to a 1/30 shutter if it was just one camera and not across networks.

Because its happening everywhere though, makes me wonder if a headend somewhere is introducing a pulldown. It's also strange that you would only see it one camera and not an entire broadcast.

Mark Vidonic · 08-08-09, 09:37 PM

ABC, I'd be interested to know if this is an issue with a local affiliate's splicer.

spongyfungy · 08-09-09, 12:57 PM

now I'm really curious to see this effect. Will be watching for it next week. Anyone have a sample? We can step through the frames to determine the cadence

ncsugrad · 08-20-09, 09:50 PM

Anyone noticing this effect on the Eagles/Colts game on Fox tonight? I'm watching on TWC.

Johnny5.1 · 08-20-09, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncsugrad

Anyone noticing this effect on the Eagles/Colts game on Fox tonight? I'm watching on TWC.

Yes, I saw it this evening during the football game. I'm guessing this has something to do with the splicer upgrade perhaps. It's uncomfortable for my viewing. I'm curious to see the highlights of it on Sportscenter this evening and whether or not it exhibits the same effect.

Edit, just saw the Sportcenter highlights and it is stutter free, must be a local issue for me and a few other posters on here.

Charter Cable

mikemikeb · 08-21-09, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny5.1

Yes, I saw it this evening during the football game. I'm guessing this has something to do with the splicer upgrade perhaps. It's uncomfortable for my viewing. I'm curious to see the highlights of it on Sportscenter this evening and whether or not it exhibits the same effect.

Edit, just saw the Sportcenter highlights and it is stutter free, must be a local issue for me and a few other posters on here.

Charter Cable

ESPN picks up a satellite feed separate from FOX Master Control.

That said, I caught a few minutes of the game (OTA / WTTG-DT / DC) and noticed no stuttering in general. There may have been a slight sense of it on one main camera shot? But I'm not sure about that; it could have been just my eyes or interlacing effects (it was viewed on an SDTV).

Considering the problem seems to happen with multiple cable companies, on more than one 720p channel, the stuttering may have to do with an incompatibility with an encoder at the cable headend.

lokilarry · 08-21-09, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny5.1

Yes, I saw it this evening during the football game. I'm guessing this has something to do with the splicer upgrade perhaps. It's uncomfortable for my viewing.

I saw this on last night's broadcast of the game as well. I'm on Time Warner in Rochester, NY.

ncsugrad · 08-21-09, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny5.1

It's uncomfortable for my viewing.

+1. I guess watching the Panthers' games this year won't be much fun, unless this problem is rectified.

jpr281 · 08-21-09, 08:05 PM

Anyone notice weird video stuttering on some shots?

bdraw · 08-21-09, 08:08 PM

No, but it does look better than anything else I've seen on Fox in a long long time. (Watching OTA in Tampa on WTVT).

KJShearer · 08-21-09, 08:09 PM

Yes, I noticed it in the FOX game last night too. It's very annoying. It doesn't happen on the SD feed. I'm watching on Time Warner Cable on FOX 5 WNYW out of NYC.

Mike4HDTV · 08-21-09, 08:12 PM

The new stadium looks amazing especially the giant HD screen.

bdraw · 08-21-09, 08:13 PM

Which shots specifically? Usually I'm really sensitive to any judder or stuttering.

JCARR24 · 08-21-09, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lokilarry

I saw this on last night's broadcast of the game as well. I'm on Time Warner in Rochester, NY.

Syracuse too. It's already happening on tonight's Cowboys game.

To all the people thinking they might have seen it, you will definately know when it happens. Its distracting to the point of being unwatchable.

KJShearer · 08-21-09, 08:21 PM

Looks like every shot to me. It's not constant either, it lasts for a few seconds then stops, then happens again. Almost looks like the screen is shaking.

JCARR24 · 08-21-09, 08:23 PM

thread merged.

KJShearer · 08-21-09, 08:28 PM

Happening on NFL game on FOX on TWC in NYC...agree that it's unwatchable.

MJ313 · 08-21-09, 08:33 PM

I am getting the same stuttering on the main field-view camera for the Cowboys-Titans game. I'm on Comcast in New Hampshire. Stinks.

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Johnny5.1 HDTV Addict Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 428	FOX HD live sports - Stutter or 24p effect Watching the Angels/A's game on FOX in the Los Angeles market. Is anybody else noticing this effect on some of their cameras? Some have the normal video look to it while the main cam and a couple of others appear to have a slight stutter or almost 24p movie effect. I'm starting to think this is intentional. It was happening during the All-Star game, and another FOX Saturday game the week prior. I don't know, just kind of weird and distracting for my taste. Or maybe it's just a local issue. __________________ R.I.P. HD DVD 2006-2008

07-18-09, 10:33 PM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
butsy23 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 16	hmmm, yeah its only when I watch Fox baseball in HD. No issues on any other programming.

07-19-09, 06:32 PM	#8 \| Link
Johnny5.1 HDTV Addict Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 428	No, i'm certain it has nothing to do with a higher shutter speed setting that the super slow mo cameras posess. Its on the main center field camera and has more to do with a movie like slow film non video appearance is the best way i can describe it. Kinda like what producers will apply when showing halftime/postgame montage highlights. __________________ R.I.P. HD DVD 2006-2008

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Johnny5.1 HDTV Addict Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 428	I'll check my OTA status the next broadcast. I watch through Charter Cable. __________________ R.I.P. HD DVD 2006-2008

08-08-09, 07:14 PM	#12 \| Link
KCotton New Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1	Fox MLB HD problem I have the same problem as the original post. "Stutter" effect only on Fox MLB broadcasts from the centerfield camera. First noticed it on the All-Star game broadcast and has continued since. Watching on Comcast in Charleston, SC.

07-18-09, 09:32 PM	#2 \| Link
butsy23 Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 16	I noticed the same thing on my Fox HD Comcast signal here in Northern Virginia during the All Star Game. Major stuttering effect any ideas or explanations would be helpful

07-18-09, 09:54 PM	#3 \| Link
theo871 Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 70	I have noticed this too, and find it highly distracting.

07-18-09, 10:20 PM	#4 \| Link
localnet AVS Special Member AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Grass Lake, MI Posts: 2,018	Same here, when watching ESPN, Cubs game. Switched over to another game, forget the channel, no issues. I would say the problem is at the source, not your set. Mike

07-19-09, 04:08 PM	#6 \| Link
TVOD AVS Special Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 3,968	Almost sounds like the camera shutter speed is higher than 1/60th second. Is the motion still smooth, or is a bit jerky (like 30P or 24P)?

07-20-09, 04:19 PM	#9 \| Link
maestro73 Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 149	I noticed this on all recent Fox MLB broadcasts as well. However, when I switch to the OTA feed it seems to not happen. I'm on Comcast. Maybe it's a Comcast thing?

08-05-09, 08:21 PM	#11 \| Link
Doug14 New Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1	The effect has now spread to ESPN... I'm currently watching the Sox-Rays game on Cox HD Cable in San Diego and every camera angle has the bizarre 24p effect that I've noticed on all games on Fox since the game the OP referenced. I found this forum after Googling randomly to try to figure out what's going on with HD MLB broadcasts this year. Glad to see I'm not the only one who's noticed it, but I'm also shocked that none of the major baseball writers have written anything about it.

08-08-09, 09:26 PM	#13 \| Link
ABCTV99 AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,049	Most broadcast cameras that can handle 24p have to be configured to do so at the CCU. It's not something that can be easily done, or a switch that can be accidentally hit while on air, even on the Thomsons which are format switchable at the camera head. Furthermore the truck would likely have to be configured to handle a true 24fps signal, or introduce some sort of pulldown from 30i or 60p. It's also highly unlikely people in the truck wouldn't notice this, or the camera op for that matter. I would almost chalk the choppiness up to a 1/30 shutter if it was just one camera and not across networks. Because its happening everywhere though, makes me wonder if a headend somewhere is introducing a pulldown. It's also strange that you would only see it one camera and not an entire broadcast.

08-08-09, 09:37 PM	#14 \| Link
Mark Vidonic AVS Special Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: McKees Rocks, PA Posts: 1,570	ABC, I'd be interested to know if this is an issue with a local affiliate's splicer. __________________ Mark Vidonic mark.vidonic@gmail.com

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spongyfungy Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 192	now I'm really curious to see this effect. Will be watching for it next week. Anyone have a sample? We can step through the frames to determine the cadence

08-20-09, 09:50 PM	#16 \| Link
ncsugrad New Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Zebulon, NC Posts: 5	Anyone noticing this effect on the Eagles/Colts game on Fox tonight? I'm watching on TWC.

08-21-09, 08:05 PM	#21 \| Link
jpr281 Advanced Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Long Island Posts: 581	FOX Preason Football: Titans at Cowboys Anyone notice weird video stuttering on some shots?

08-21-09, 08:08 PM	#22 \| Link
bdraw AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tampa FL 33602 Posts: 2,332	No, but it does look better than anything else I've seen on Fox in a long long time. (Watching OTA in Tampa on WTVT). __________________ Ben How good could it be if it isn't HD? Engadget HD

08-21-09, 08:09 PM	#23 \| Link
KJShearer New Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 11	Yes, I noticed it in the FOX game last night too. It's very annoying. It doesn't happen on the SD feed. I'm watching on Time Warner Cable on FOX 5 WNYW out of NYC.

08-21-09, 08:12 PM	#24 \| Link
Mike4HDTV AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 2,423	The new stadium looks amazing especially the giant HD screen.

08-21-09, 08:13 PM	#25 \| Link
bdraw AVS Special Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Tampa FL 33602 Posts: 2,332	Which shots specifically? Usually I'm really sensitive to any judder or stuttering. __________________ Ben How good could it be if it isn't HD? Engadget HD

08-21-09, 08:21 PM	#27 \| Link
KJShearer New Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 11	Looks like every shot to me. It's not constant either, it lasts for a few seconds then stops, then happens again. Almost looks like the screen is shaking.

08-21-09, 08:23 PM	#28 \| Link
JCARR24 New Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 5	thread merged. Last edited by JCARR24; 08-21-09 at 09:22 PM..

08-21-09, 08:28 PM	#29 \| Link
KJShearer New Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 11	Happening on NFL game on FOX on TWC in NYC...agree that it's unwatchable.

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MJ313 New Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2	I am getting the same stuttering on the main field-view camera for the Cowboys-Titans game. I'm on Comcast in New Hampshire. Stinks.