Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen

[Toe]

Originally Posted by bases1616

Can someone that has both the IMAX and regular BD editions compare the audio level? I have the IMAX version and I definitely need to turn up the volume more than usual to get the full effect.

Xylon confirmed in his thread that there is a definate volume dif between the two, and Kris Deering has mentioned this as well. A few other posters on br.com that have both are saying the same thing. The question I have is the dif strictly a volume dif or is the WM audio track somehow lacking otherwise? I have my WM copy which I have not opened and will keep sealed until we get some confirmation on what the hell is going on here. Audio is the main reason I bought this film and I need the best version!

[muffinmcfluffin]

Originally Posted by sharkcohen

Are you bitstreaming or player-decoding?

Player-decoding.

Here's what I mean: In a movie like Cloverfield, explosions have so much more to it than just the LFE's. You get the very crisp, fine crackles of what it hits. Or in The Departed when you hear glass smash you get a nice crinkle with it, or when guns fire you really get an extra "pop" with it. Again, not bass-heavy, but just nice and loud (in fact, watch the second scene I believe where DiCaprio is firing at a target on the default mix and you'll get what is similar to TF2, but change it to LPCM 5.1 and you get something that sounds much better). It's a very full, enriching sound along with whatever else is involved (surrounds, bass, etc.). In Transformers, when the robots hit each other and metal clanks, it's almost nothing. When the oncoming car hits them when they're being hoisted by the helicopter, it sounds like a simple nick. When guns fire, it sounds like a video game gunfire. Watch Quantum of Solace for the latter two examples in the opening scene. Very enforcing and impacting.

In this movie it's simply a lot of LFE's (along with a large array of sounds that they use like the EMP burst which I still think is awesome). Also, remember people's problem with the dialogue giving out in TF1 when Megan Fox says, "No matter what happens, I'm glad I got in that car with you."? I'm experiencing the same issues when we first see John Turturro at his little deli. His dialogue gives out a little bit.

I'm not saying the audio isn't "reference," but the way that it was recorded left me less impressed than other movies with the same kinds of effects such as cars crashing (or metal clanking in general), guns firing, or glass breaking.

[sb1]

Originally Posted by Toe

Xylon confirmed in his thread that there is a definate volume dif between the two, and Kris Deering has mentioned this as well. A few other posters on br.com that have both are saying the same thing. The question I have is the dif strictly a volume dif or is the WM audio track somehow lacking otherwise? I have my WM copy which I have not opened and will keep sealed until we get some confirmation on what the hell is going on here. Audio is the main reason I bought this film and I need the best version!

Didn't know about that. I guess whatever I posted here and in the audio thread should be with the knowledge that I have the constant aspect ratio version from Best Buy.

I noted no volume differences and an excellent track.

[DarthV]

Originally Posted by Toe

Xylon confirmed in his thread that there is a definate volume dif between the two, and Kris Deering has mentioned this as well. A few other posters on br.com that have both are saying the same thing. The question I have is the dif strictly a volume dif or is the WM audio track somehow lacking otherwise? I have my WM copy which I have not opened and will keep sealed until we get some confirmation on what the hell is going on here. Audio is the main reason I bought this film and I need the best version!

Guess it depends if it's just a level difference or not. If it's down a few dB, just turn it up

[sharkcohen]

Just throwing out an amateur guess, but perhaps the sound mix on the IMAX film was different from the 35 mm release, and perhaps what we got in the Big Screen Edition was not only the IMAX picture, but the IMAX sound mix.

[Franin]

So is it just the IMAX version that has the audio problems? I'm getting mine from Amazon hopefully that's the constant 2:35:1 AR and the good audio.

[Toe]

Originally Posted by DarthV

Guess it depends if it's just a level difference or not. If it's down a few dB, just turn it up

Exactly. If it is simply a volume dif, then no problem, BUT if it is somehow a dif track/mix then that is a problem (if you want the best audio presentation).

[General Kenobi]

Originally Posted by sharkcohen

Just throwing out an amateur guess, but perhaps the sound mix on the IMAX film was different from the 35 mm release, and perhaps what we got in the Big Screen Edition was not only the IMAX picture, but the IMAX sound mix.

If that's the case would there be any difference in the audio on the non-IMAX scenes?

[eweiss]

Originally Posted by dx31698

So I dont know if anyone else has said this, but when I walked into my Best Buy today, all they had were the Big Screen Version of this movie. I thought it was exclusive to walmart.

Anybody see this?

bestbuy.com shows Widescreen, but not "Big Screen." Are you sure your BB copy says "Big Screen" (supposedly a Wal-Mart exclusive)?

[modiGTI]

I rented the DVD last night just to make sure it's a movie I'd want to own. I thought it was great so I ended up picking up the Big Screen edition this morning from WM. I can't wait to watch it again on BR.

[Dave_6]

IMO the IMAX soundtrack is fine, it just doesn't seem to be encoded as 'hot' as most other DTS MA tracks are (ie The Incredible Hulk). On my Onkyo 705 (bitstreamed thru an Oppo BDP-83) I had it turned up -11 and on most other movies I have it at -15. There is definitely not any lacking in the low end/bass department, that's for sure!

[mpgxsvcd]

Can someone sum up what the state of all of the discs are? I have the Blu-ray disc from Best Buy and I just bought the Special Edition one for $19.99 from Walmart. However, my Blu-ray player died yesterday so I haven’t been able to watch either of them.

Do both discs have IMAX scenes in them? Does the Walmart one have more IMAX scenes? Is the Walmart on entirely in IMAX?

Is there a significant difference in audio?

[Morpheo]

Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd

Can someone sum up what the state of all of the discs are? I have the Blu-ray disc from Best Buy and I just bought the Special Edition one for $19.99 from Walmart. However, my Blu-ray player died yesterday so I haven’t been able to watch either of them.

Do both discs have IMAX scenes in them? Does the Walmart one have more IMAX scenes? Is the Walmart on entirely in IMAX?

Is there a significant difference in audio?

There's only ONE version with the 1.78:1 IMAX shots, and it's the big screen wallmart's. Any other special/ultimate/Starscreamtronbee edition is the constant AR version. Wallmart's Big Screen edition has some longer shots during some of the IMAX scenes (a few secs), because the IMAX version of the film was "longer" as well.

[bases1616]

Originally Posted by sharkcohen

Are you bitstreaming or player-decoding?

I tried both bitstreaming and PCM with the IMAX version and same results for the audio. After reading all the posts from this forum and from Blu-ray.com and High Def Digest most people are saying the volume is definitely lower. A review from blu-ray.com confirms the audio difference.

Official www.blu-ray.com review of IMAX version confirms this:

Please note: it does appear that the soundtrack accompanying this IMAX version does lack the same amount of power and heft as that found on the standard release. This is still an amazing soundtrack in every regard, but the low end isn't quite as powerful and the sound effects perhaps not quite as loud. Two scenes were sampled several times in succession: the opening studio logo sequence and the forest battle in chapter nine. The IMAX version's DTS-HD MA 5.1 soundtrack is still loud, aggressive, crystal-clear, and makes excellent use of the low end and the surround channels, but it packs just a bit less punch when compared to the standard 2.39:1 release and at the same reference volume level and utilizing the same settings on the same Blu-ray playback device.

[sb1]

Originally Posted by bases1616

I tried both bitstreaming and PCM with the IMAX version and same results for the audio. After reading all the posts from this forum and from Blu-ray.com and High Def Digest most people are saying the volume is definitely lower. A review from blu-ray.com confirms the audio difference.

Official www.blu-ray.com review of IMAX version confirms this:

Please note: it does appear that the soundtrack accompanying this IMAX version does lack the same amount of power and heft as that found on the standard release. This is still an amazing soundtrack in every regard, but the low end isn't quite as powerful and the sound effects perhaps not quite as loud. Two scenes were sampled several times in succession: the opening studio logo sequence and the forest battle in chapter nine. The IMAX version's DTS-HD MA 5.1 soundtrack is still loud, aggressive, crystal-clear, and makes excellent use of the low end and the surround channels, but it packs just a bit less punch when compared to the standard 2.39:1 release and at the same reference volume level and utilizing the same settings on the same Blu-ray playback device.

Strange. Not sure why it would be encoded differently (if that's the case, and not just recorded "lower"). Either way, the copy I have from Best Buy sounds fantastic.

[BRADH]

I have the Walmart copy and the (dialog-normalization) on this disc is 0. I have noticed on alot of movies its been +4. This maybe the difference.

Brad

[Robert George]

I have the Walmart copy and the (dialog-normalization) on this disc is 0. I have noticed on alot of movies its been +4. This maybe the difference.

Reading through this and the other thread, I was thinking this was possibly a difference in the dialnorm setting. I'm not at home to confirm, but if anyone with the "standard" widescreen version would check to see if the dialnorm setting is -31 dBfs (will show up on the receiver as "+4").

[lgans316]

Guys,

I am confused now. If I increase the volume by 4 dB from reference level will it sound like the regular BD?

[sharkcohen]

Can someone point me to a link that explains what 'reference level' means? My audio system is calibrated, but I have no idea what 'reference' is.

I know this is off topic but I don't expect to discuss it here. If someone could just PM me a link or info, that would be great.

[Robert George]

I am confused now. If I increase the volume by 4 dB from reference level will it sound like the regular BD?

If dialnorm is in fact the reason for the difference in level, and the difference is in fact 4 dB, then yes. These things have to verified, though.

[Robert George]

Can someone point me to a link that explains what 'reference level' means? My audio system is calibrated, but I have no idea what 'reference' is.

In a nutshell, "reference level" is based on digital full scale. Calibrated test tone is set at 20 dB below digital full scale and 85 dB on the mixing stage. This allows for a peak level of 105 dB.

85 dB is rather loud for the home environment so it has been common practice for consumer electronics manufacturers to attenuate the test tone by 10 dB. This is why we set our channel levels to 75 dB using the generated test tone.

The purpose of this is simply to recreate to relative level of the soundtrack as produced on the mixing stage. The levels of various sounds in the various channels relative to each other are only heard as mixed at reference level. Lowering the volume on most systems tends to make the sourrounds and LFE less audible relative to the main channels when played below reference level.

[ThePrisoner]

My playback of Big Screen Edition gave me dialog norm of -4. Playback chain is an Oppo BDP-83 & Denon AVR-3808CI. HDMI v1.3 throughout.

[Robert George]

My playback of Big Screen Edition gave me dialog norm of -4.

If I recall Denon's decoder implementation, "-4" means the level is actually 8 dB below the level of a track with dialnorm set to the maximum level. If the standard widesreen version is -31 dBfs, as is most often the case with DTS-HD MA tracks, then the IMAX version will play significantly lower.

[Trojita]

I went to walmart yesterday to try and see if my local walmart had the price mistake. I just moved to this area and I'm not sure I want to make another trip to walmart anytime soon.

All of the Blu-ray copies were sold out. By my guess they had about only less than 20 copies of the blu-ray. They literally had HUNDREDS of the DVD edition. I was like "Are you serious?". Near the front of the building they were stacked in a crappy box hanging everywhere. Walmart or the production company certainly screwed up. They should know that Blu-ray is gradually taking a marketshare. Just look at the percentage of the X-men Wolverine movie that were sold on Blu-ray.

Of course everything is Michael Bay's fault regardless.

[PRO-630HD]

Originally Posted by BRADH

I have the Walmart copy and the (dialog-normalization) on this disc is 0. I have noticed on alot of movies its been +4. This maybe the difference.

Brad

Brad what receiver and player are you using? Good info thanks!

[K-Spaz]

^^

They didn't screw up, they got you in the store. The online price is ~$24 at Walmart. The "Deal" on the BD version was most likely a loss taken to get people into the store to buy other stuff, and probably a limited run. Later you'll see the disk at a higher price. Or it'll be out of stock forever...

[PRO-630HD]

So some people are showing -4 dial norm and some 0. I can't imagine the dialnorm setting should vary between receivers. The average DTS-HD track is usually +4 db so if youlike watching material with dialogue at the same level a decrease in 4 db is needed. Question is are some walmart copies show a difference of 4db? Meaning some dial norm at 0 and others -4?

[General Kenobi]

Originally Posted by Trojita

I went to walmart yesterday to try and see if my local walmart had the price mistake. I just moved to this area and I'm not sure I want to make another trip to walmart anytime soon.

All of the Blu-ray copies were sold out. By my guess they had about only less than 20 copies of the blu-ray. They literally had HUNDREDS of the DVD edition. I was like "Are you serious?". Near the front of the building they were stacked in a crappy box hanging everywhere. Walmart or the production company certainly screwed up. They should know that Blu-ray is gradually taking a marketshare. Just look at the percentage of the X-men Wolverine movie that were sold on Blu-ray.

Of course everything is Michael Bay's fault regardless.

Sounds like my Walmart... their BD section consists of a single end cap and it looks like it's been rapped. I complained to a manager and said "so you sell all these TV's and BD players that are HiDef but no movies to watch on them?" It's rare that I look to Walmart for anything but when I do I just do SiteToStore shipping.

[chadsdsmith]

I just finished watching my "big screen,imax,walmart,super duper edition". I had heard so many bad things about the movie itself that I never made it to the theatre to see it, but I will tell you it was drastically better than my, admittedly low, expections. I thought it was better than the first one, which I can't say was citizen cane to begin with but entertaining none the less. As for the pq, phenominal!!! The only thing I found distracting about the imax material, much like in TDK, was that the increased resolution made me wish the whole movie was like that. Also, even though original aspect ratio is most important, I kind of like the fact that 20 some odd percent of my 54 inch screen is not getting wasted by black bars. I will warn those that are distracted by the change in ratio that it seems to bounce back and forth a lot more than in TDK. The non imax scenes' pq are much better than in TDK though (I still can't believe people think that transfer wasn't that bad when it came to the 35mm stuff), so that may help ease the distraction. As for the audio, I have no other version to compare to, but I will tell you that I had to turn the volume up a little higher than normal for optimal levels. With that said, this may be the best soundtrack I have ever heard. I use the analogs out of my panny bd55. My sub actually bottomed out when the helicopter flew over megan foxs' head. If the other versions are better, well then....... !! My best guess, since I seriously doubt thay actually produced two different mixes (common sense people), is that they just dubbed in the volume a little lower on this edition. I am no audio technician/expert, but that would make the most sense to me. I would be willing to bet that, in a double blind test with the two versions tested side by side and volume equalized,an unnoticeable difference would be observed. But like I said, I only have one version. Anyways, thats my take

[champer]

i just got back from walmart i didnt see them carry the big screen edition