ATI Radeon HD 5800, 5700 and 5600 Series Thread: Supporting HD Audio Bitstreaming!

renethx · 09-13-09, 04:21 AM

Dolby TrueHD Bitstreaming via ffdshow tryouts (TrueHD 7.1ch 96KHz.m2ts):

Radeon HD 5750
Catalyst 9.11
Windows 7 32-bit
MPC HomeCinema (the latest SVN) with the internal M2TS source/splitter filter and video decoder
ffdshow_rev3128_20091202_dbt_bitstream_beta44
Windows default audio renderer
TrueHD 7.1ch 96KHz.m2ts & TEST_7.1_TRUEHD.m2ts
ONKYO TX-SA606X

Please check

Doom9's Forum - ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion (the official ffdshow tryouts HD audio thread started on December 4, 2009)

for the latest status of the development.

Dolby TrueHD Bitstreaming via PowerDVD 9 Ultra (Spider-Man 3):

DTS-HD Master Audio Bitstreaming via PowerDVD 9 Ultra (FLYBOYS):

Radeon HD 5750
Catalyst 9.11
Windows 7 32-bit
PowerDVD 9 Ultra Build 2320
ONKYO TX-SA606X

Table of Contents

Common Features
Video and Audio Features
Bitstreaming HD Audio
- AACS-Compliant Players Supporting HD Audio Bitstreaming
- Non-AACS Players Supporting HD Audio Bitstreaming
Specification Table
HD 5800 Series
HD 5700 Series
HD 5670
HD 5500 Series
HD 5450
The Latest Drivers
Reviews

Common Features

Some of the new features common to all the new GPUs (codenamed Evergreen) are:

Manufactured with TSMC 40 nm process or maybe even 32 nm for Redwood and Cedar (currently 55 nm process except for HD 4770/4750).
Support for DirectX 11.
Eyefinity multi-display technology, supporting up to three displays (one display must be DisplayPort or use an active DisplayPort to DVI/HDMI adapter). HD 5870 Eyefinity6 (a single GPU) even supports six displays (at least four of them must be DisplayPort).

Video and Audio Features (Check the slides posted at Hot Hardware.)

HD Video Playback Capabilities

Enhanced UVD 2.0: Hardware acceleration decode of dual 1080p HD video streams
Windows Aero Mode: Playback of HD videos in high quality with Windows Aero mode enabled

Video Enhancements

Video Gamma: Independent from Windows desktop for a superior user experience
Brighter Whites: Or "Blue Stretch" processing increases the blue value of white colors for brighter videos
Dynamic Video Range: Controls levels of black and white during playback

HDMI Audio Features

Bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio

HDMI Features

HDMI 1.3a Deep Color & x.v.Color
Over 1 billion colors output through HDMI: 12-bpc output, 10-bpc (4:4:4) meaningfully derived
Wide range of colors: Full support for wide-gamut xvYCC video signals

Bitstreaming HD Audio

Among them the greatest feature for HTPC users is the support for bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio over HDMI. Finally we don't have to buy an expensive HDMI sound card for this purpose, although you have to wait until Q1 2010 to get the mid-range to low-end cards HD 5670/5650 and HD 5550/5350. Meanwhile, HD 5770/5750, expected in October 23, 2009, may be a good compromise for the mainstream users (not ultra expensive, good 3D performance implies good video post-processing). If you are building a gaming HTPC however, a high-end GPU is the way to go (roughly 1.5 times 3D performance increase from the current GPUs).

AACS-Compliant Players Supporting HD Audio Bitstreaming

CyberLink PowerDVD 9 Ultra (Build 2320 or later)
Corel WinDVD Pro 2010

How about ArcSoft TotalMedia Theater? There is no official announcement, but this will also support it soon according to various posts by ArcSoft_Jason in the thread:

ArcSoft Forum - ATI 58xx cards now support HD audio Bitstreaming

Non-AACS Players Supporting HD Audio Bitstreaming

What about media players? Could, for example, MPC HomeCinema or the 7MC internal player output HD audio bitstreams? A key is the WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_IEC61937 structure introduced in the Windows 7 SDK. This extends the WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE structure (introduced in Windows 2000) to describe new compressed HD audio streams such as TrueHD and DTS-HD. If the driver supports this extension, then the developer of an audio decoder (e.g. AC3Filter, ffdshow tryouts) should be able to implement HD audio bitstreaming easily. Please also read vladd's posts. Note that PAP (encrypting HD audio signals in a user-accessible bus such as the PCI Express bus) has nothing to do with HD audio bitstreaming. PAP is required only for an AACS-compliant player such as PowerDVD and TotalMedia Theater. (BTW PowerDVD uses the older WAVEFORMATEX structure to bitstream HD audio.)

An innovative way of bitstreaming HD audio is being developed by albain, an ffdshow tryouts developer (suggested also by James at SlySoft). The idea is use PCM output with right description of non-PCM data, similar to AC3/DTS in S/PDIF. This uses WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_IEC61937 structure for this purpose. So far the attempt is not successful yet, but apparently this is the most promising way. If you are interested, please follow the threads:

Update (December 2, 2009)

ffdshow_rev3128_20091128_dbt_bitstream_beta42 finally succeeded in bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD. For details check

This post and subsequent discussions at Doom9's Forum - ffdshow tryouts project: Discussion & Development.
This post and subsequent discussions in this thread
Doom9's Forum - ffdshow tryout project : HD audio discussion (the official ffdshow tryouts HD audio thread started on December 4, 2009)

Specification Table

Model

Code Name

Core Cl

Mem Cl

Mem BW

Memory

SP

TC

Max P

Idle P

P Conn

Length

Price

Release

Radeon HD 5350

RV810 Pro (Cedar)

-

Q1 '10

Radeon HD 5550

RV830 Pro 2 (Redwood Pro 2)

-

Q1 '10

Radeon HD 5570

RV830 Pro (Redwood Pro)

-

Q1 '10

Radeon HD 5670

RV830 XT (Redwood XT)

775MHz

1000MHz

64.0GB/s

GDDR5/512MB/1024MB/128-bit

400

627M

61W

14W

none

-

$99, $119

Jan 14, '10

Radeon HD 5750

RV840 Pro (Juniper, aka Corvette)

700MHz

1150MHz

73.6GB/s

GDDR5/512MB/1024MB/128-bit

720

1.04B

86W

16W

6-pin

7 1/8 in

$109, $129

Oct 13 '09

Radeon HD 5770

RV840 XT (Juniper, aka Countach)

850MHz

1200MHz

76.8GB/s

GDDR5/1024MB/128-bit

800

1.04B

108W

18W

6-pin

8 3/16 in

$159

Oct 13 '09

Radeon HD 5850

RV870 Pro (Cypress)

725MHz

1000MHz

128.0GB/s

GDDR5/1024MB/256-bit

1440

2.15B

151W

27W

6-pin+6-pin

9.5 in

$259

Sep 23 '09

Radeon HD 5870

RV870 XT (Cypress)

850MHz

1200MHz

153.6GB/s

GDDR5/1024MB/256-bit

1600

2.15B

188W

27W

6-pin+6-pin

10.5 in

$379

Sep 23 '09

Radeon HD 5970

R800 (Hemlock)

725MHz

1000MHz

-

GDDR5/2x1024MB/2x256-bit

2x1600

2x2.15B

294W

42W

6-pin+8-pin

12.16 in (309mm)

$600

Nov 18 '09

- Cl: clock
- BW: bandwidth
- SP: stream processors
- TC: transistor count
- P: power
- Conn: connectors

HD 5800 Series

Architecture

HD 5870

HD 5850

Comparison with HD 4870

HD 5700 Series

Architecture

HD 5770

HD 5750

HD 5670

Architecture

HD 5500 Series

HD 5450

The Latest Drivers

Reviews

HD 5870/5850 Reviews

HD Audio Bitstreaming

If you are interested only in HD audio bitstreaming, just read the following (the majority of reviews neglected this aspect; I see the reason why no leaked information mentioned HD audio bitstreaming

):

HD 5770/5750 Reviews

HD 5670 Reviews

renethx · 09-13-09, 04:27 AM

reserved2

renethx · 09-13-09, 04:27 AM

reserved3

renethx · 09-13-09, 04:27 AM

reserved4

bonzichrille · 09-13-09, 04:48 AM

Anandtech made a hint about bitstreming in the azuntech review. Something about not having to wait to long before its intergrated into graphics.

Could it be that the 5000 series support PAP?

Eopian · 09-17-09, 04:08 PM

nevermind

topcaser · 09-18-09, 02:41 PM

Iam very excited to see the idle power consumption of the 56xx series. Propably it comes with GDDR5. I would bet that idle power consumption is around 6W.

Renexth, maybe it is worth to have a bandwidth column...

renethx · 09-23-09, 02:23 AM

Finally we will be able to get a cheap solution for bitstreaming HD audio! (You need a copy of PowerDVD 9 Ultra.) But you have to wait until Q1 2010 if you want a midrange/low-end cards (HD 5670/5650/5550/5350). The following cards replacing the current HD 4770 are expected in October 23, 2009 and are relatively inexpensive:

- HD 5750: $149
- HD 5770: $199

VR-Zone - [Rumour] ATI Radeon HD 5700 prices, release dates revealed

hlkc · 09-23-09, 02:44 AM

Hopefully a fanless/heatsink without additional power native HDMI version will be available soon

Not like this... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-346-_-Product

renethx · 09-23-09, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlkc

Hopefully a fanless/heatsink without additional power native HDMI version will be available soon

Not like this... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-346-_-Product

You have to wait till Q1 2010. Meanwhile I expect a quiet HD 5770/5750 card soon (October '09) similar to the current Sapphire HD 4770 Arctic Cooling Accelero L7 card:

vladd · 09-23-09, 03:00 AM

My question is will the driver's DirectShow audio renderer support the WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_IEC61937 format?

renethx · 09-23-09, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vladd

My question is will the driver's DirectShow audio renderer support the WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_IEC61937 format?

If the driver suppors it, media player developers can implement HD audio bitstreaming easily, right? If so, that's an interesting question.

vladd · 09-23-09, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renethx

If the driver suppors it, media player developers can implement HD audio bitstreaming easily, right? If so, that's an interesting question.

Yeah, that's the plan.

renethx · 09-23-09, 03:36 AM

Now MKV files with untouched TrueHD/DTS-HD MA audio tracks would be a viable option.

vladd · 09-23-09, 03:44 AM

Yup. If they implement support into the driver. The Xonar did not not support the extentions on their DirectShow renderers (I was hoping they did). I don't know if the Auzen offering does or not (my wife would kill me if I tried to spend any more money just to see).

If the new ATI cards support the extention, you won't be able to sell a used Asus or Auzentech for the cost of shipping.

ffdshow tryouts supported the extentions for a while but they have been removed since no cards worked and it couldn't be tested. I also have my own "test" filter ready.

(Test meaning it doesn't actually bitstream but just checks if the renderer supports the extentions. I'll add the rest once a card supports them.)

renethx · 09-23-09, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vladd

If the new ATI cards support the extention, ...

BTW how do you check if the driver's DirectShow audio renderer supports the WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_IEC61937 format?

vladd · 09-23-09, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renethx

BTW how do you check if the driver's DirectShow audio renderer supports the WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_IEC61937 format?

I coded an audio "decoder" filter that, when connected to a TrueHD source from either the MPC demux or the ArcSoft demux, will set it's output pin for TrueHD bitstreaming according to that developer document. If it connects to the audio renderer, the renderer supports that extention. If the renderer does not connect, then the extention is not supported.

I've tested with the Xonar and, just for kicks, the 4760. Neither supported it (I didn't expect the 4670 to though).

Short of using a decoder that supports the extention, there is no real way to test.

Andy o · 09-23-09, 06:35 AM

I wonder how James is planning to make Slyplayer bitstream with 4000 cards.

In any case, it would also be interesting to see how the HDMI device shows up on the Windows panel, and if WASAPI exclusive works as well (or better) as the 4000 series. Unfortunately this card is too expensive for me, I'll have to wait at least until the 5750.

Tulli · 09-23-09, 07:10 AM

As long as PDVD9 (or 10 for the matter) is required to bitstream I'll stick to the TMT3/HDAV solution.

redtyler1 · 09-23-09, 08:38 AM

Isn't there still a problem with ATI cards passing proper 24p? Renethx, I think your guide indicates as much. I thought NVIDIA's cards could do 24p but were inferior to ATI in SD processing? Am I reading your charts incorrectly?

Thanks,
Alex

gorman42 · 09-23-09, 09:40 AM

I'm curious to see how the 5850 will fare against 4890. Probably more powerful, but I'm interested in seeing if it will be cooler and, thus, potentially less noisy.

Tolstoi · 09-23-09, 09:44 AM

This is great opfully other software players (arcsoft)? will offer bitstreaming over the ATI 5xxx families.

IF so then in Q1 I will get rid off my Asus slim whenthe first 5650 or 5670 that could be made fanless will show up.

This is really cool.

trailergod · 09-23-09, 10:06 AM

this is great !!!!

now... lets hope slysoft SLYPLAYER will also support this card... :-)

H8nXTC · 09-23-09, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlkc

Hopefully a fanless/heatsink without additional power native HDMI version will be available soon

Not like this... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-346-_-Product

That Eyefinity version only has 1GB which is not listed on the graph above.

nobi125 · 09-23-09, 11:00 AM

Dammit, I just bought a HDAV Slim.

H8nXTC · 09-23-09, 11:07 AM

Here's hoping Gigabyte makes a 5850 fanless version with the same cooler as their 4850 version.

hlkc · 09-23-09, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renethx

You have to wait till Q1 2010. Meanwhile I expect a quiet HD 5770/5750 card soon (October '09) similar to the current Sapphire HD 4770 Arctic Cooling Accelero L7 card:

I am more a purpose driven guy. As you might know I got a Standard and Slim HDAV and it is doing exactly what I want with my native HDMI fanless 4670 these days. It will be nice to combine both together and I am sure that is what I will end up doing that. But there is no rush for me, both of them are silent and take less power then the about release 5XXX not to mention it probably got a QA cycle for us

They can count on me for Q1 for sure but not like the 4850 again!

nextguy · 09-23-09, 11:59 AM

i have a question about the bitstreaming. My understanding is that the older cards (4350, 4550, 4650, etc) do support bitstreaming of these sound formats (DTS-HD and TrueHD MA) but at a lower bit rate (this due to no PAP). Am I wrong about that?

JediFonger · 09-23-09, 12:17 PM

wow, that's awesome =). 2bad i just bought 4890 =(.

gonna have to wait til 6xxx series to upgrade =).

nextguy, previous gens do NOT support bitstream at all whatsoever. they support bitstream converted to LPCM 7.1, but only at 24-bit/48kHz because of non-PAP. there are certain discs w/24-bit 96kHz, but it's quite rare.

either way, the true bitstream is a welcome since there ain't no limitations now on LPCM either, u can now also do 24/96 on LPCM.

Andy o · 09-23-09, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nextguy

i have a question about the bitstreaming. My understanding is that the older cards (4350, 4550, 4650, etc) do support bitstreaming of these sound formats (DTS-HD and TrueHD MA) but at a lower bit rate (this due to no PAP). Am I wrong about that?

They're not supposed to support (at least officially) bitstreaming of THD and DTS MA at any bitrate. There was some confusion caused by some poor wording on ATI's site, but these 4000 cards are not bandwidth limited in any way. The limiting goes on in the player. These cards are capable of full 8-channel 192 kHz 24-bit audio output through HDMI (36.864 Mbps).

09-13-09, 04:27 AM	#4 \| Link
renethx AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,386	reserved4 __________________ - Recommended HTPC (Jan '10) - ATI HD 5xxx Thread - Core i7, i5, i3 Thread

09-13-09, 04:48 AM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
bonzichrille Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sweden Posts: 80	Anandtech made a hint about bitstreming in the azuntech review. Something about not having to wait to long before its intergrated into graphics. Could it be that the 5000 series support PAP?

09-17-09, 04:08 PM	#6 \| Link
Eopian Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Rochester Hills, MI Posts: 156	nevermind Last edited by Eopian; 09-23-09 at 11:39 AM.. Reason: I was wrong

09-23-09, 02:23 AM	#8 \| Link
renethx AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,386	HD 5770/5750: A good compromise Finally we will be able to get a cheap solution for bitstreaming HD audio! (You need a copy of PowerDVD 9 Ultra.) But you have to wait until Q1 2010 if you want a midrange/low-end cards (HD 5670/5650/5550/5350). The following cards replacing the current HD 4770 are expected in October 23, 2009 and are relatively inexpensive: - HD 5750: $149 - HD 5770: $199 VR-Zone - [Rumour] ATI Radeon HD 5700 prices, release dates revealed __________________ - Recommended HTPC (Jan '10) - ATI HD 5xxx Thread - Core i7, i5, i3 Thread Last edited by renethx; 09-23-09 at 02:46 AM..

09-23-09, 02:44 AM	#9 \| Link
hlkc AVS Special Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 1,982	Hopefully a fanless/heatsink without additional power native HDMI version will be available soon Not like this... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-346-_-Product Last edited by hlkc; 09-23-09 at 02:49 AM..

09-18-09, 02:41 PM	#7 \| Link
topcaser Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 188	Iam very excited to see the idle power consumption of the 56xx series. Propably it comes with GDDR5. I would bet that idle power consumption is around 6W. Renexth, maybe it is worth to have a bandwidth column...

09-23-09, 03:00 AM	#11 \| Link
vladd AVS Special Member AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 3,090	My question is will the driver's DirectShow audio renderer support the WAVEFORMATEXTENSIBLE_IEC61937 format?

09-23-09, 03:36 AM	#14 \| Link
renethx AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 8,386	Now MKV files with untouched TrueHD/DTS-HD MA audio tracks would be a viable option. __________________ - Recommended HTPC (Jan '10) - ATI HD 5xxx Thread - Core i7, i5, i3 Thread

09-23-09, 03:44 AM	#15 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
vladd AVS Special Member AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 3,090	Yup. If they implement support into the driver. The Xonar did not not support the extentions on their DirectShow renderers (I was hoping they did). I don't know if the Auzen offering does or not (my wife would kill me if I tried to spend any more money just to see). If the new ATI cards support the extention, you won't be able to sell a used Asus or Auzentech for the cost of shipping. ffdshow tryouts supported the extentions for a while but they have been removed since no cards worked and it couldn't be tested. I also have my own "test" filter ready. (Test meaning it doesn't actually bitstream but just checks if the renderer supports the extentions. I'll add the rest once a card supports them.)

09-23-09, 06:35 AM	#18 \| Link
Andy o AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,787	I wonder how James is planning to make Slyplayer bitstream with 4000 cards. In any case, it would also be interesting to see how the HDMI device shows up on the Windows panel, and if WASAPI exclusive works as well (or better) as the 4000 series. Unfortunately this card is too expensive for me, I'll have to wait at least until the 5750.

09-23-09, 07:10 AM	#19 \| Link
Tulli AVS Special Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,123	As long as PDVD9 (or 10 for the matter) is required to bitstream I'll stick to the TMT3/HDAV solution.

09-23-09, 08:38 AM	#20 \| Link
redtyler1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 405	Isn't there still a problem with ATI cards passing proper 24p? Renethx, I think your guide indicates as much. I thought NVIDIA's cards could do 24p but were inferior to ATI in SD processing? Am I reading your charts incorrectly? Thanks, Alex

09-23-09, 09:40 AM	#21 \| Link
gorman42 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 489	I'm curious to see how the 5850 will fare against 4890. Probably more powerful, but I'm interested in seeing if it will be cooler and, thus, potentially less noisy. __________________ Seriously. AVS is a place where you go to learn to be unhappy. - Bear5k

09-23-09, 09:44 AM	#22 \| Link
Tolstoi AVS Special Member AVS CLUB MEMBER Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 2,785	This is great opfully other software players (arcsoft)? will offer bitstreaming over the ATI 5xxx families. IF so then in Q1 I will get rid off my Asus slim whenthe first 5650 or 5670 that could be made fanless will show up. This is really cool.

09-23-09, 10:06 AM	#23 \| Link
trailergod AVS Special Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: germany Posts: 1,402	this is great !!!! now... lets hope slysoft SLYPLAYER will also support this card... :-)

09-23-09, 11:00 AM	#25 \| Link
nobi125 HT in an Apartment. Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 241	Dammit, I just bought a HDAV Slim. Last edited by nobi125; 09-23-09 at 11:43 AM..

09-23-09, 11:07 AM	#26 \| Link
H8nXTC Advanced Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Pacific Palisades, CA, U.S.A. Posts: 556	Here's hoping Gigabyte makes a 5850 fanless version with the same cooler as their 4850 version.

09-23-09, 11:59 AM	#28 \| Link
nextguy Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 85	i have a question about the bitstreaming. My understanding is that the older cards (4350, 4550, 4650, etc) do support bitstreaming of these sound formats (DTS-HD and TrueHD MA) but at a lower bit rate (this due to no PAP). Am I wrong about that?

09-23-09, 12:17 PM	#29 \| Link
JediFonger Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 428	wow, that's awesome =). 2bad i just bought 4890 =(. gonna have to wait til 6xxx series to upgrade =). nextguy, previous gens do NOT support bitstream at all whatsoever. they support bitstream converted to LPCM 7.1, but only at 24-bit/48kHz because of non-PAP. there are certain discs w/24-bit 96kHz, but it's quite rare. either way, the true bitstream is a welcome since there ain't no limitations now on LPCM either, u can now also do 24/96 on LPCM. __________________ to the edge of eternity and depth of infinity, stupidity knows no bound.