Greensboro, NC - HDTV

[dubbadon]

Here's the status from the 44th TV Market

WFMY-DT 51 - limited on-air (appears to be Prime Time only)
WGHP-DT 35 - unable to recieve
WXII-DT 31 - unable to receive
WGPX-DT 14 - filed extension to build
WTWB-TV 19 - filed extension to build
WUNL-DT 32 - multicasting, reception OK
WXLV-DT 29 - reception great
WUPN-DT 33 - reception great, some problems at station
WLXI-DT 43 - filed extension to build

My location - just east of Guildford College Campus
My Receiver - RCA DTC100
My Antenna - Radio Shack VU-120XR (largest sold)
Rotor - Full 360
Antenna Height - 25 Feet
My Downlead - 100ft RG-6

Analog Reception - 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 20, 26, 36, 45, 48, 61 (granted some reception is marginal)

[Neely]

WXII-DT(31) switches on at 6 PM and then operates through the Tonight Show which is broadcast in HDTV and Dolby Digital 5.1. The picture quality is about the best I've seen.

I think the only other NBC boardcast in HDTV is Crossing Jordan which I've never seen.

WXII-DT(31) tranmits everything else in Standard Defintion.

I'm not sure what WXII-DT(31) does on the weekends.

I concur with all the other signal reports

I live in Reidsville. I'm using a Radio Shack $18 indoor uhf bowtie antenna sitting on a bench on my deck. I am looking for a Channel Master 4228, but they seem to be scarce.

[HedoTerry]

Where do you all point your antenna for 29 ABC. I see the analog antenna is in Winston Salem but digital is at the WFMY antenna farm. Atleast according to a sight I was looking at. I get equal reception from them no matter where I point my antenna and it is all bad. I am in Jamestown and wghp is great here. WXII is so so. A lot of drop outs.

[dubbadon]

WFMY-TV & DT is the 2,000 Foot Tower at Level Cross & US220 South

WTWB-TV, WUPN-TV & DT and WXLV-DT is the Multiple-Mount 2,000 Foot Tower beside US220 at Level Cross.

WGHP-TV & DT is on a 1357 Foot Tower in Sophia (roughly 5 miles further south of the above towers)

WXII-TV & DT, WUNL-TV & DT and WXLV-TV are located at the peak of Sauratown Mountain, north of King. (All 2,000 feet)

WGPX-TV & DT (future) is located on US29 North of Greensboro at the County Line (1,000 feet)

WLXI-TV is located roughly 5 miles north of Kernersville (1,000 feet?), with their DT Antenna planned on the 20-48-45 Tower.

A Great Site For TV Data is here - http://100kwatts.tmi.net/

FYI - I have still never received WXII-DT or WGHP-DT. I'm going to try harder to tweak the antenna position this weekend.

[foxeng]

Stations I am receiving near the battlefield in Greensboro:

WFMY 2-1 (51-1) Dynamic PSIP 16:9 CBS HD pass-through - local upconversion - On air Prime Time only
WGHP 8-1 (35-1) Static PSIP and 480P 16:9 up-conversion - 24/7
WXII 12-1 (31-1) No PSIP 16:9 NBC HD pass-through - local up-conversion - 4:30pm to 12:35am
WUNL 26-1/3/4/5 Static PSIP 4:3 up-conversion (I haven't seen any PBS HD) - 24/7
WXLV - 45-1 (29-1) Misconfigured PSIP - 480P 4:3 up-conversion - 24/7
WUPN - 48-1 (33-1) Signal but no decodable stream - 24/7

Channel Master 4228 antenna mounted 10ft with 100ft RG-59 with Radio Shack 10db in-line pre-amp into Samsung SIR-T150 STB.

[skoone1]

To Foxeng -- You wouldn't happen to work at ch. 8 would you??

I'm occasionally grabbing dt51 as well as dt31 from my location... But I'm a long ways off!

[roland6465]

From about 5 miles from the Davidson/Forsyth line on US 150:

WFMY- same as above.

WGHP- not enough signal to lock...."Roger" from engineering ("foxeng?") told me they're at a whopping 4200 watts.

WXII- same as above, but how about DD5.1 ALL THE TIME? News sounds horrible.

WTWB- nothing

WXLV- SD on 29-1, not HD-ready yet

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Now... with my RS VX-190 and a 35db preamp pointed at Charlotte, I get:

WCNC- both HD shows, 93% signal

WBTV- All HD CBS offerings, 90% signal

WSOC- ABC's HD lineup, DD5.1, 79-85% signal

WCCB- FOX Widescreen, baby!, 100%!

Plus about 4 PBS affiliates, none of which are doing HD yet.

---------------------------------------------------

So, I guess the bottom lline for now is: the Triad is coming around, but I'm too impatient to wait, so screw you guys

[foxeng]

No, I am not "Roger". Sorry. (I think you mean "Ross").

[foxeng]

No, I am not "Roger". Sorry. (I think you mean "Ross").

I am not him either!

[foxeng]

As you may have guessed, I do work for channel 8 and yes I am lurking here to see what everyone is saying. I am only a tech and I am in charge of the transmitters, but if you have any questions, I will try and answer them best I can if you have any. If not, I will just lurk!

[roland6465]

Sorry, eng. I guess it is Ross.

Being a huge Floyd fan, "Roger Mason" just rolls off my tongue more naturally.

[zmeister]

I located in Elon just about 2 miles north of 85-40. I have 2 antennas a CM4251 & 4228 with CM7777 & 7775 preamps feeding a Dish 6000 and a Pan Tu-Hds20. Both antennas are attic install and I have a 3(APS-U92) that I am going to move around the house to try and pick Charlotte and Roanoke.

As for the triad stations, there is something wrong UPN48(33) and WGHP(35) must be at low power because the signal is not stable. I am fortunate to be able and pick up all the Raleigh stations with no problem what soever. Some of you to the west might want to try and pick up WDBJ7(18), WPXR(36) and WSLS10(30) out of Roanoke. I can pick up WDBJ most of the time and the other two occasionally even though they are at low power.

[foxeng]

Well if you tried to look at WGHP-DT this afternoon, you were out of luck. About 4 o'clock, we had a failure in two places on the transmitter and it is off the air at this time. One of them is a fatal failure and I suspect it may be middle of next week before we get it back on. It will take some parts to be sent in, and since we are having an engineer from the manufacturer coming next week anyway to look at some other small problems, we may just wait until he arrives and have them fix all the problems.

But hey, that is life with new technology, and S/N 3!

[foxeng]

Has anyone decoded WUPN-DT 33 in the last week or so? I know I have not been able to decode it on 2 different Samsung SIR-150's, one in High Point and one in Greensboro, nor a professional DTV receiver/demodulator 5 miles from their transmitter.

[roland6465]

I had a 21% signal from 33-1 for about 4 hours on 5/1, but never strong enough to lock in my box. I have gotten no signal since, though.

[foxeng]

Originally posted by roland6465
I had a 21% signal from 33-1 for about 4 hours on 5/1, but never strong enough to lock in my box. I have gotten no signal since, though.

I suspected as much. I may give the engineer a call tomorrow over there and see if he even knows about it. I hear they have no way to monitor their off air signal.

I am picking up WRAL this morning. It is not solid, but I am thinking about going to RS and getting a hotter pre-amp. This 10 dB is OK, but I am wondering if a 20 dB would be enough to keep it solid. I may just spring for the 30 dB and be done with it.

[zmeister]

For the past week or so UPN48(33) signal has been strong but the 6000 will not lock on it. In my past conversations with their engineer he has indicated that they have a problem with their transmitter, I'm not sure this is the same one as they have had previously.

Foxeng- you might want to try the ChannelMaster CM7775 preamp. I'm not sure where you can pick one up locally but you might try www.starkelectronic.com. I have bought one from them before and I'm waiting for another. Good solid performance, the CM7777 has VHF capability if you need VHF , the 7775 is UHF only but has a 2db more gain.

[foxeng]

Originally posted by zmeister
For the past week or so UPN48(33) signal has been strong but the 6000 will not lock on it. In my past conversations with their engineer he has indicated that they have a problem with their transmitter, I'm not sure this is the same one as they have had previously.

They had had a tube/socket failure originally. This looks like PSIP problems. I have been reading a lot on it this past week and I swear I don't know how anyone figures out how these things work! I can understand why stations don't use them. They are a BEAR to setup and keep maintained. We are not in a position to use ours yet, so ours is what they call "static".

Foxeng- you might want to try the ChannelMaster CM7775 preamp. I'm not sure where you can pick one up locally but you might try www.starkelectronic.com. I have bought one from them before and I'm waiting for another. Good solid performance, the CM7777 has VHF capability if you need VHF , the 7775 is UHF only but has a 2db more gain.

I am going to buy one of those, but I am sitting here watching WRAL pixalize in and out and it is just killing me! I know just a couple more db and it would be solid! So as soon as RS opens I will be there and I will order a good pre-amp next week off the web. My whole install was just to be able to see our transmitter to see when it had problems, and do some very rudimentary coverage area analysis, but now I think I am getting hooked! I can see a new monitor in my future next year! Just 480I NTSC out right now. It does give me letterbox, which has never bothered me, and if I really want to see true HD, then I will pull the 19" monitor and plug it in the VGA spigot. With the limited offerings, I can't see spending the money right now. If the FCC proposal is acted upon by all parties next year like they want, it will be more incentive for consumers and broadcasters to jump in, then I will revisit the monitor issue.

[zmeister]

It looks like that UPN48(33) has fixed their problem.

Foxeng, if you hunt around you might be able to enjoy HD at a relatively low price. I have a CRT FP to watch special events ona 16x9 100"screen. But for most of my everyday viewing I was able to pick up a 36" 4x3 Hitachi Demo at Sears for $1100. It is not the best HD picture available but for now at that price it was close enough. I figure by the time the technology matures, this TV will probably be sold or moved to make room for the lastest widescreen TV.

[foxeng]

Originally posted by zmeister
It looks like that UPN48(33) has fixed their problem.

Not here. It is still not locking up. I did call WUPN's engineer today, but just got his voice mail. At least he knows now and if nothing happens in the next few days, I will call him again. He is pretty good guy, and for all I know, he maybe working on it and doesn't have time to tell me!

[wdbjbob]

Historically, there have been a number of places in Greensboro (including the manager's office at WFMY) where reception for WDBJ7 was pretty good. Is anyone other than foxeng receiving the DATV signal on 18 around town?

[foxeng]

WGHP has been making some changes in our streaming and in our RF chain. We still have some more work to do next week, but I am asking if you see something on air that is not right, or you think something is not right on air, let me know and I will be happy to check it out. Myself and and a tech from the transmitter manufacturer spent 10 hours Thursday going through the entire streaming chain and did find some problems that are being addressed and I will be starting to go through the RF section later today into next week.

Any reports will helpful. Just post them here and I will be checking at least daily on this forum.

Thanks
Charles Layno
Transmitter Supervisor
WGHP/WGHP-DT

[compson]

In Winston-Salem, with an indoor antenna, I have not been able to get any signal. By that, I mean that in trying to lock onto a new channel on my Dish 6000, I get no reading at all. I am able to pick up the other Triad digital channels to varying degrees.

[era]

I've had HDTV on cable (SHO and HBO) for a couple of months and it's great, but I wish they'd hurry up and start carrying the networks and PBS in HDTV as well. The Orlando Time Warner carries lots of network HDTV, as do other Time Warner cabled cities.

[foxeng]

Originally posted by compson
In Winston-Salem, with an indoor antenna, I have not been able to get any signal. By that, I mean that in trying to lock onto a new channel on my Dish 6000, I get no reading at all. I am able to pick up the other Triad digital channels to varying degrees.

I assume you must be referring to WGHP. At the present we are running at reduced power of 4200 watts (4.2 kW). There is no set date to increase power yet, so an indoor antenna, unfortunately will not pick us up unless you are at the tower. I am on the north side of Greensboro with a modest antenna setup, Channel Master 4228 and a small preamp on a 15 ft pole, yields good results. When the FCC set its standards for DTV, indoor rabbit ears were never considered, but an antenna located at 30 ft on the outside was used for all measurements.

We will have to make substantial modifications to increase power and we have been moving in that direction for several years and are continuing to do so, even now.

*** The following is my view and opinion and is not the view or opinion of my employer.***

I read in the forums people jumping up and down demanding stations be pulled because they are not at full power or haven't made it on air or because they only send up-converted signals.

The truth is, up until now, the FCC has not been very realistic in its view of what it takes to make the DTV transition a success. Only the broadcasters have been required to make this work, and it will take every player from the broadcasters to set manufactures to make this roll out a success. The current FCC sees this and is making strides to work with broadcasters and now is applying pressure on the other players as well. If you read the broadcast rags, the broadcasters applaud this and I think broadcasters would be more inclined to spend the extra if they knew that it all wasn't up to them, as it should be.

Had the FCC in 1995/96 come out with a complete DTV roll out plan that included the current broadcast timetable and mandated timetables for cable must carry, receiver conversion, and programming, we might be able to make the 2006 deadline, but the former FCC chairman walked around carrying a big stick demanding broadcasters do this and that and ignored the rest of the industry on this issue and was, IMHO, more inclined to criticize broadcasters than to help them. The current FCC chairman, who wants DTV, also understands the whole thing is so screwed up, it will take time to straighten out and get it going again, and he is trying to, by NOT carrying a big stick, but working with the broadcasters and addressing the other issues. He is getting more response now, than his predecessor did, but it is now 6 years down the road.

This DTV issue is a classic case of the government getting involved to force change when there was no real driving force. Would DTV have happened? Absolutely! Would it have been more orderly transition without the government? Yes. Would we have been further along in the transition had all the issues been addressed and not just the broadcast side? Yes.

It is ashamed that DTV holds so much promise and yet, it isn't happening, but I think the FCC sees its mistakes and it has sent a message to the effected industries, and they have received it. It will take some time to get DTV roll out back on track, because it is now derailed in a ditch and it is trying to get back up.

Right now the only people benefitting from DTV are the broadcast manufacturers and consumer manufacturers, because it costs money to convert whether you are a broadcaster or viewer. Until that scale is tipped by some factor (the FCC in this case), expect more of the same.

An analogy I have been using is this is 1946. In 1946, the FCC opened television to the masses. It was a rocky start, just like DTV. It was bleeding edge technology with few transmitters and fewer receivers. Stations came on sporadically and then left the air. Until the FCC made some hard and fast choices, TV floundered around until the early 50's, when it took off. The technology got better, and the industry got focused. DTV is in the same boat. In comparison, 2002 is DTV's 1946. The digital technology is still being proven and some is still vaporware, even today. I have heard others call DTV still a science project in the works, and it is. We the pupblic (me included) have gotten so use to turning on a device and it works first time, and DTV isn't there yet. As early adoptors, you are seeing a new technology develop before your eyes. DTV was only lab stuff 6 years ago and now it is in you home. A short time for R&D for an entire industry. Something that most people believed would never happen again. Remember you are the pioneers. So enjoy what little you receive right now. In years to come you can tell people how you SAW DTV develop. It will get better, but probably not as fast as we all would like it to.

The preceding has been my view and opinion. It is not the view or opinion of my employer.

[Neely]

For the last two or three days I've been receiving a dandy signal strength from WXLV-DT (29), but no picture or sound. Anyone else having the same problem?

[foxeng]

Originally posted by Neely
For the last two or three days I've been receiving a dandy signal strength from WXLV-DT (29), but no picture or sound. Anyone else having the same problem?

I have been looking at their PSIP on a commerical DTV recevier and it is not right. I will give them a call tomorrow. At Least WUPN is better, but it's not right either.

[zmeister]

Yes, my 6000 will not lock on 29 as well.

Foxeng: Even though this is not really the place for this I just thought I would throw in my 2 cents on DTV. I'm not an engineer nor a tech freak. Just someone who has dabbled in first stereo and later home theater. As far DTV tech goes, I think it has been wonderful as far network OTA broadcasts are concerned. I'm fortunate to live in an area that allows me access to now 3(maybe 4 in the future) television markets through the use of DTV. My PQ from those stations that broadcast HD is outstanding and after the initial hardware investment of course free!

To me the biggest problem stems from the fact that DTV with the promise of better PQ and sound might help TV manufacturers sell more TV's but for cable and satellite operators, it eats up more bandwith thus restricting the number of channels which costs them money. Broadcasters are kinda stuck in the middle of this as they try to find the business model to make $ during this transition. Hopefully the FCC can sort this out and everybody can win. The technology is improving and I hope that some of the newer settop boxes and chips will solve some of the reception problems some of us are having. Keep the Faith!

[trich]

Could anyone in NC tell me if Time Warner in Goldsboro has any HD on there digial cable. If not would some one get Raleigh with a out side antenna.

[compson]

Accordingly to this link, HD stations are available through Time Warner in Goldsboro: http://www.twc-nc.com/line_ups/goldsboro.php

You would probably be OK with an antenna, though. You can easily pick up the analogue channels from Raleigh and Durham with rabbit ears. Raleigh's WRAL (CBS affiliate) is the leading station in the country for HD (even the local news is in HD), so I suspect they have a digital signal strong enough to be received in Goldsboro. The digital transmitter for the NBC affiliate (in case you like Jay Leno) is in Garner, but the station is actually based in Goldsboro, so I would hope you could get it there. (It's actually an NBC owned and operated station--based in Goldsboro. Hard to believe, I know. It's a long story.)

Good luck.