HOWTO: YPrPb component output on any Radeon for under $5

[dethnite]

All you need is a bit of 75 ohm coax wire, a soldering iron, and 3 RCA male plugs. This mod is Win9X only, since we don't know the XP registry keys yet. And if you are reading this, I assume you know what you are doing. If not, don't do it, because you could ruin some very expensive equipment.


First, using the 75 ohm wire, solder:
-----------------------------------
VGA pin 1 -> Female RCA Pr lead
VGA pin 2 -> Female RCA Y lead
VGA pin 3 -> Female RCA Pb lead

VGA pin 6 -> Female RCA Pr ground
VGA pin 7 -> Female RCA Y ground
VGA pin 8 -> Female RCA Pb ground
-----------------------------------


Second, add this key to the registry (win9x only):
-----------------------------------
under the thread
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ATI Technologies\Driver\0000\DAL]

add
"HDTVRULE_HDTVCONNECTED" =hex:01,00,00,00

and also
"HDTVRULE_HDTVGDOENABLE"=hex:01,00,00,00
"HDTVRULE_HDTVSIGNALFORMAT"=hex:01,00,00,00
if they don't exist, which they won't, if you use a radeon 7xxx or 9000.
-----------------------------------


Third, connect your TV with the S-video cable. Disconnect your monitor. Reboot, making sure NO DISPLAYS are connected EXCEPT the S-video. After showing the scrolling black-and-white bootup screen on the TV, all S-video output should stop. You are now outputting in YPrPb. To verify, connect your standard VGA monitor, and if everything is green, the modification has been successful. Now all you need to do is plug it into the component in's on your TV.
-----------------------------------


Last, download PowerStrip (http://www.entechtaiwan.com/ps.htm), load it up, go to Color profiles -> Configure, then uncheck "Write directly to palette DAC" and "Enable color correction" (edit-> you only need to uncheck these two settings if you are using an older version of PowerStrip -- 3.18 and below, i think. Newer versions do not need to be adjusted). Use the information in these forums to configure the output resolution/timings to your liking.

Note: PowerStrip is actually necessary. After adding the registry key, the Display->Advanced control panel will disappear, which is where you find the YPrPb configuration dialog. It's a bug in Catalyst.
-----------------------------------


Quick explanation of what's happening here.

To support the ATI HDTV dongle, the YPrPb signal is sent directly through the DVI port on the Radeon 9000/9500/9700 after the dongle is detected by Catalyst. Catalyst then requires you to reboot, enabling YPrPb output to BOTH the DVI port and the VGA port. This is actually because Catalyst needed to support the 8500 VGA dongle as well as the new DVI ones... so by default both ports are always enabled for HDTV on all cards. This is in our favor. Because of the laziness of the Cat developers, ALL Radeon cards (not just the one supported by the dongle) can output YPrPb.

The HDTVRULE_HDTVCONNECTED regkey is then added by us, forcing Catalyst to bypass the dongle DDC detection, and output YPrPb anyway. So then all we do is take the YPrPb signal being sent through the first 3 pins of the VGA port and jack directly into it. Add some RCA's for flavor, ground them, and -- POOF -- your Radeon just got component-out for the cost of a happy meal at mcdonalds.

Why do this instead of just buying the dongle from ATI? Well, first of all, I own a Radeon 9000 PRO 64MB, which ATI currently sells no dongle for and never will. Second, the dongles that ATI offers are made for use on only one card, so if you had two different cards in two different pc's, you'd need two different dongles (90$ with their cheapest shipping). And Third, if you went all out and spent as much money as you could on the best parts possible for this mod, you'd still spend a whole lot less than you'd pay for one dongle, and might even result in better quality. Enjoy!

-dethnite

(thanks to all the people who posted bits and pieces of info about this in the rage3D forums, you were a big help)
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edit - less permanent, slightly more expensive (+$3) solution:

Buy an HD15 male (VGA) connector (just the connector, no wires, open pins) from your nearest electronics shop. Solder as in the configuration above, connect the HD15 plug to the VGA port on your Radeon, and the RCA's to the corresponding component inputs on the TV. This avoids soldering directly to the board

Also, according to reports in this thread, third party VGA->Component adapters (not transcoders, big difference) will also work if you don't want to build one.

something like this: http://www.optomausa.com/public/Prod...-81908-001.asp

DVI-A to Component connectors will work also if your card has DVI support, since the signal is sent to both ports on the vidcard.
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Test system:

Athlon XP 1800+
256MB DDR 2100
Powercolor Evil Commando Radeon 9000Pro 64MB
-using Catalyst 2.3 6166 reference drivers
Win98SE

[tahustvedt]

Cool!

Is it possible to output 1024x768 by component?


Tor Arne

[dethnite]

Well, treat the connection as if it were the ATI dongle. Catalyst is going to think it's using the dongle, so it's going to act like it. Anything you can't do with the dongle will still apply, like certain timings/resolutions -- ahem ATI, 540p? -- so keep that in mind.

It's still an HDTV connection, don't forget! Any mode your TV doesn't support won't display correctly, if at all.

-deth

[Brian Hampton]

Hey,

I would recommend getting a VGA output connector to solder the wired to rather than modifing the actual card. This way the project is a DIY dongle rather than a modified video card. Either way, people should realize the danger in home made electronics and know what they are doing before they do it.

Also, I think it's cool that a DIY dongle can be made but I don't see how that relates to your suggestion that the ATI dongle is "****." It was nice for ATI to offer the dongle and if they had not then such a project would not exist.

Now, if I only had a use for Component output.

Good Luck,

Brian

[killswitch]

How would this connect to the DVI output on an 8500DV AIW ?? It uses a DVI-VGA adaptor to connect to a VGA monitor ?

Cheers !

[dethnite]

wow, that's really funny. Read the edit i JUST posted about a less permanent solution.

[dethnite]

Originally posted by killswitch
How would this connect to the DVI output on an 8500DV AIW ?? It uses a DVI-VGA adaptor to connect to a VGA monitor ?

Cheers !

I hadn't thought of that.

I don't know if it would work, but you could try my less permanent method above, and connect the HD15 male to the DVI-VGA adapter. Might work, but i can't guarantee it.

You could also either build a DVI-component straight-through adapter, or buy one (they're about 20 bucks). Google for "DVI to Component adapter" -- i got some good results from that.

I'm working on another, cheaper solution.

[tahustvedt]

The reason I asked about 1024x768 is that some DLP-projectors reduce the color whel speed to synch with 50Hz when PAL is played through the video inputs (component, S-video, composite), but runs it in synch with 60Hz when used with a HTPC through the RGB- or DVI-port. This can cause micro-stuttering.

If it was possible to output 1024x768 by component and if the projector could take the signal then it would be possible to take advantage of the good scaling of a HTPC and the synchronized color wheel speed. The picture quality would probably not be as good as with RGB though, it would be a compromise, but worth a try at least.


Tor Arne

[killswitch]

cheers !

given me more of an excuse to get a TV with component inputs now most TVs here just have an RGB wired SCART !

[Alric]

This would limit you to up to 480p display of CSS encrypted DVDs. Right?

[dethnite]

Originally posted by Alric
This would limit you to up to 480p display of CSS encrypted DVDs. Right?

pretty much. Unless you could use the 1080i/p modes, which according to the ATI dongle specs, are indeed supported... i just started learning about DVD-related stuff (i still dont own any DVD equipment) so i can't help you much with that, sorry.

[bbq@KL]

CSS never caused that problem. Only Macrovision limited the output.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...51#post1134451

[trbarry]

I have a VGA->RCA component cable lying around here somewhere that I got so see if I could output YPbPr from one of my HDPC cards (I could).

Would this probably be the same as the pinouts above?

- Tom

[pomidor]

Could a cable like this be connected to a radeon and apply the registry hack? This would save much time and effort attempting to solder etc.

Thanks.

Leo

[dethnite]

your post is asking the same as Tom's, so i'll answer both:

according to a diagram i found of a homemade cable that follows the VGA-YPrPb standard, the pins are the same, so then your answer is: most likely. At least ATI followed some kind of standard...

I'm going to try to find one today, i'll post later.

[miksmi]

Good work, dethnite. I'll add it to the next version of the HTPC Meta FAQ.

[dethnite]

sweet

i'll keep editing it as long as i keep finding out more.

[Mr.Pibb]

Does this mean that I might be able to get my good old All-In-Wonder Radeon to output to component??? Oooohhh...I'm getting excited!!!

[Karnis]

I just confirmed the pinouts on a VGA-BNC breakout cable. with an OHM meter.

VGA pin 1 -> Female RCA Pr lead + VGA pin 6 -> Female RCA Pr ground
VGA pin 2 -> Female RCA Y lead + VGA pin 7 -> Female RCA Y ground
VGA pin 3 -> Female RCA Pb lead + VGA pin 8 -> Female RCA Pb ground

[Karnis]

That registry key looks to be for Win98....any idea about where to put it in WinXP?

[jkaiser]

Just checked Catalyst 2.4 with 9500 Pro and the following entry is not there.

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\ATI Technologies\Driver\0000\DAL]

I did a registry search for DALRULE and found entries in the ClassIDs. Is this the same, or does one have to create the above key?

[nintari]

This is what I want to know...... (i'm always asking the odd questions...)

I will be getting a My HD Card soon and will need to display to both the desktop and straight to the TV...... do you think the adpater will work through the pass through of the MyHD Card? really not much to stopping it from working I would think...... (just afraid to do something wrong)

Also since this home made breakoutcable has no switches to select the resolutions capable how does it work in other res other than 480p...?

I have mine wide open right now.....

[trbarry]

Does that registry entry have any effect in Safe Mode?

I was wondering how I'd get back to seeing the display if I screwed it up somehow.

- Tom

edit: and that's a nifty idea about about just using the pass-through from one of the PCHD cards. I hadn't though of that. Of course then you maybe still need a VGA->component cable to bypass your AA 9A60 but that's what I got it for to begin with.

[bbq@KL]

Here are some screenshots of YPrPb component output:
http://www.radeon2.ru/konkurs_2/ypbpr.html

[sjchmura]

Is there anyway to use the VGA-> Component as a second monitor - keeping teh DVI output to an LCD Screen?

It seems like after reboot BOTH outputs turn to RGB and drop RGBhv

[nintari]

I just wish I could get 800x600i and 1024x768i without major underscan!

I cant even use those resolutions because of the massive underscan

I also wish I could find a way to stop powerstrip from diableing tilebased rendering when interlaced resolutions are added would give a nice speed boost.

What I was speaking of on the MyHD card was to be able to have my HDTV Adapter hooked on the pass through cable to see my windows desktop and the HD Overlay (or however it works) while in windows, and then also have the other part of the MY HD Card hooked straight to the TV so I can switch between either way of viewing. Otherwise all I will get is just the MyHD Card straight to the TV and ATI Card straight to the TV without being able to view the TV on desktop ...hope that makes more sence (I always know waht I want to do but can never describe it....

[Karnis]

Originally posted by trbarry
Does that registry entry have any effect in Safe Mode?

I was wondering how I'd get back to seeing the display if I screwed it up somehow.

- Tom

edit: and that's a nifty idea about about just using the pass-through from one of the PCHD cards. I hadn't though of that. Of course then you maybe still need a VGA->component cable to bypass your AA 9A60 but that's what I got it for to begin with.

Hi Tom:
Doesn't safe mode bypass the installed driver for std. vga mode anyway? I would think safemode would be ok since it wouldn't use those registry settings.

[Karnis]

Originally posted by nintari
I just wish I could get 800x600i and 1024x768i without major underscan!

Unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast with 1080i sets and only 540 progressive scan lines to work with. Any vertical resolution over 540 must be interlaced, and vertical resolutions closer to 1080i will fill the screen more than 600 or 768.....the difference must be made up in the vertical blanking area.

[Karnis]

Originally posted by nintari
Otherwise all I will get is just the MyHD Card straight to the TV and ATI Card straight to the TV without being able to view the TV on desktop ...hope that makes more sence (I always know waht I want to do but can never describe it....

This is how I have it connected, except the Radeon VGA is connected to a transcoder. HTPC in one component input, MyHD (component out via breakout cable & set to YPbPr) in another and you get the overlay on the desktop by selecting "using separate monitor".

I just compared the transcoder to straight RGBHV and it was almost identical. The transcoder MAYBE had a tad less contrast. I know the transcoder is $200 but the flexibility and control, combined with Powerstrip, is well worth it.

[DaWorm]

I take it this only applies to 8500 and up? No 7200?