Seattle, WA - OTA

[Budget_HT]

Originally Posted by DanKurts

Michael
The site for the rules
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html
However, your area is tougher than it looks. Done surveys all around you, never put one up there. Trees really chop up the signal. Never say never, but you might want to look into the cable options. Basic $12/mo hooked to A QAM Cable card ready tuner, minus the card, will get you all the locals except ch11 in HD.
Dan

Engineer Ron Diote from KSTW (channel 11) reports that they should be carried on Comcast sometime in September, making the Comcast alternative a little more attractive. When they get their TiVo-based 34xx boxes going (late '06 or early '07), then they become a viable candidate for me.

[Michael Warner]

I'm in the same fix Dave. I'll likely use Dish or Comcast in the future after they resolve their respective Tivo issues. The HDTV I'm looking to buy doesn't have a QAM or CableCard tuner but does have an OTA HDTV tuner so I thought I would play with the antenna approach and see if it works in the interim. The kicker is that I already have Comcast for broadband so if the TV had a QAM tuner this would all be a piece of cake. Nothing about HDTV is easy, is it?

[rdn]

Originally Posted by Budget_HT

Engineer Ron Diote from KSTW (channel 11) reports that they should be carried on Comcast sometime in September, making the Comcast alternative a little more attractive. When they get their TiVo-based 34xx boxes going (late '06 or early '07), then they become a viable candidate for me.

I suspect that KSTW is working on getting its HD carried on all the cable and satellite systems in time for the CW network rollout, if possible.

[rdn]

Originally Posted by DanKurts

James
Earlier in this thread there's a mention of what stations are going back to their VHF frequencies. I think it was only ch9 & ch11. All the rest are keeping their UHF frequencies. Even if you want to add these back in later, separate UHF and VHF antennas will give you more choices and performance than a combo one. They will be easy to couple together, too. I would say wait until that happens and then cross that bridge. Just put up a UHF for now.
Dan

Ooh, I hope they don't. I don't really want to have to put the big antenna back up (I was about to take it to the dump, but I guess I'll keep it for now). I suspect that by Feb 2009 when this would happen both 9 and 11 will be carried by the cable and satellite companies (hopefully including 9.5).

[quarque]

Originally Posted by DanKurts

James
Earlier in this thread there's a mention of what stations are going back to their VHF frequencies. I think it was only ch9 & ch11. All the rest are keeping their UHF frequencies. Even if you want to add these back in later, separate UHF and VHF antennas will give you more choices and performance than a combo one. They will be easy to couple together, too. I would say wait until that happens and then cross that bridge. Just put up a UHF for now.
Dan

Actually 9, 11 AND 13 have all applied for their old analog channel freq's.

Antenna shoppers: Keep in mind that if you're not too far away from these 3 towers your UHF antenna may pick up enough signal to lock in. The gain is much lower in the high-VHF band but several AVS members around the country have had success with their UHF units picking up VHF digitals.

[DanKurts]

Originally Posted by rdn

Ooh, I hope they don't. I don't really want to have to put the big antenna back up (I was about to take it to the dump, but I guess I'll keep it for now). I suspect that by Feb 2009 when this would happen both 9 and 11 will be carried by the cable and satellite companies (hopefully including 9.5).

rdn
If your UHF antenna doesn't have enough to pull in the high VHF band, a small high band VHF yagi is not that hard to couple in with the UHF, and it has smaller elements than an all channel VHF. The low band of VHF is where you need those long 45' to 60" elements.
Cross that bridge when you get there. Meanwhile, chuck the old one.
Dan

[rdn]

Originally Posted by DanKurts

rdn
If your UHF antenna doesn't have enough to pull in the high VHF band, a small high band VHF yagi is not that hard to couple in with the UHF, and it has smaller elements than an all channel VHF. The low band of VHF is where you need those long 45' to 60" elements.
Cross that bridge when you get there. Meanwhile, chuck the old one.
Dan

Good point, although I doubt high-band only VHF antennas are very plentiful (maybe they will be because I recall seeing that low-band VHF is going away completely). Channel 9 is the only one I really care much about since the others I watch will end up on DirecTV eventually.

[Budget_HT]

Hopefully DirecTV will pick up local PBS stations sometime in the future too.

[rdn]

Originally Posted by Budget_HT

Hopefully DirecTV will pick up local PBS stations sometime in the future too.

If they do, I hope they add both 9.1 and 9.5.

[DanKurts]

Originally Posted by rdn

Good point, although I doubt high-band only VHF antennas are very plentiful (maybe they will be because I recall seeing that low-band VHF is going away completely). Channel 9 is the only one I really care much about since the others I watch will end up on DirecTV eventually.

rdn
Plenty for sale here
http://www.starkelectronic.com/vhf.htm
Even have cut for channel ones, scroll down the page.
Couple it with a UHF/VHF combiner for a few bucks.
They will still need them for HD VHF, so they'll be there when you need one.
Dan

[Joe Hendrix]

I just wanted to shout out a big thank-you to the folks at KCTS for fixing their HD channel (9-5). What a difference!!! They finally fixed their pixilation problems. The one true test was when you'd see a live performance, and they would show the drummer hit a cymbol. Last night... not a problem.

Again... a big huge thanks!

[rdn]

Originally Posted by Joe Hendrix

I just wanted to shout out a big thank-you to the folks at KCTS for fixing their HD channel (9-5). What a difference!!! They finally fixed their pixilation problems. The one true test was when you'd see a live performance, and they would show the drummer hit a cymbol. Last night... not a problem.

Again... a big huge thanks!

I suspect this is a result of their switching from 1080i to 720p. They also seem to have a reduced bandwidth on 9.2 and 9.3, although I don't recall if they always did this. There's a limit in how much data you can cram into the bandwidth of a single RF channel.

[rdn]

Originally Posted by DanKurts

rdn
Plenty for sale here
http://www.starkelectronic.com/vhf.htm
Even have cut for channel ones, scroll down the page.
Couple it with a UHF/VHF combiner for a few bucks.
They will still need them for HD VHF, so they'll be there when you need one.
Dan

That's where I found my Winegard UHF array, but I have never checked the rest of their site. It's a good place to bookmark--prices are quite competitive.

[mike213]

Originally Posted by Michael Warner

I'm in the same fix Dave. I'll likely use Dish or Comcast in the future after they resolve their respective Tivo issues. The HDTV I'm looking to buy doesn't have a QAM or CableCard tuner but does have an OTA HDTV tuner so I thought I would play with the antenna approach and see if it works in the interim. The kicker is that I already have Comcast for broadband so if the TV had a QAM tuner this would all be a piece of cake. Nothing about HDTV is easy, is it?

Michael,

I live about 4-5 blocks south of you (corner of 249th Ct SE and SE 42nd Dr). I put up a CH 4221 mounted on my chimney, right below my dish. I did not ask the homeowners association, I just put them up. They are in a somewhat inconspicuous location but they are visible. No one has said anything and I do believe the CCR was adjusted about a year ago to recognize the FCC ruling.

As for reception I get good OTA-HD on 4, 7, 9, and 22. I currently don't get 5, 11, 13, or 16 although it seems I did in the past (may be a leaf problem). It also seems rather strange that I cannot 5 given it is in exactly the same direction as 4 and slightly closer.

Mike

[rdn]

Originally Posted by mike213

Michael,

I live about 4-5 blocks south of you (corner of 249th Ct SE and SE 42nd Dr). I put up a CH 4221 mounted on my chimney, right below my dish. I did not ask the homeowners association, I just put them up. They are in a somewhat inconspicuous location but they are visible. No one has said anything and I do believe the CCR was adjusted about a year ago to recognize the FCC ruling.

As for reception I get good OTA-HD on 4, 7, 9, and 22. I currently don't get 5, 11, 13, or 16 although it seems I did in the past (may be a leaf problem). It also seems rather strange that I cannot 5 given it is in exactly the same direction as 4 and slightly closer.

Mike

It can get pretty tricky. I get 5 and 7 but have problems with 4. I have tried three different antenna locations on my roof and sitll get quite a bit of pixelization. On the original chimney location I got nothing at all. I tried moving the antenna around inside the house and found a location with a really solid signal, but that isn't very practical. The transmitter location would probably be visible from my roof if it weren't for a bunch of evergreens down the street.

[DanKurts]

Originally Posted by rdn

It can get pretty tricky. I get 5 and 7 but have problems with 4. I have tried three different antenna locations on my roof and sitll get quite a bit of pixelization. On the original chimney location I got nothing at all. I tried moving the antenna around inside the house and found a location with a really solid signal, but that isn't very practical. The transmitter location would probably be visible from my roof if it weren't for a bunch of evergreens down the street.

rdn & Mike
Although the transmitters are in the same basic location for 4, 5, & 7, they are at different frequencies, power, radiation patterns, and more. Add in the distance, trees, antenna properties that are never equal for all frequencies, and it's a wonder they come in at all. It gets even better. You could have line of sight to the towers and still have problems....!
The fix is to try more locations, move it around at each one, and realize that 6" in any direction can make it.
Patience is your friend.
Dan

[rdn]

Originally Posted by DanKurts

rdn & Mike
Although the transmitters are in the same basic location for 4, 5, & 7, they are at different frequencies, power, radiation patterns, and more. Add in the distance, trees, antenna properties that are never equal for all frequencies, and it's a wonder they come in at all. It gets even better. You could have line of sight to the towers and still have problems....!
The fix is to try more locations, move it around at each one, and realize that 6" in any direction can make it.
Patience is your friend.
Dan

That is definitely the case. I have a few options left to try, but have been hoping that DirecTV would have picked up the KOMO (and KCPQ) HD signals by now (5, 7, 9, 11, 16 and 22 come in fine).

Bob

[wrldmrine@hotmai]

Can anyone recommend an installer for a CM4221 in the Maple Valley area? After ordering the antenna and working with Directv to no avail, I am in the need of having someone come out and assist. The biggest obstacle I am facing is that I want the antenna mounted on my roof, but due to the house configuration, a 40 ft ladder is neccessary to reach the roof.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

TIA!

[swang]

hi guys,

i live in sammamish, just want to check out if it is possible to get some hdtv channels by an antenna.

i tried to use the antennaweb site, the map seems a bit outdated, so i am copying my latitude/longitude here:
47.60931n / 122.0876w

i'd hope it can be a indoor one, but can try out door if it's not on roof, don't want to deal with hoa.

I am new to this, so if you can recommand some details, such as what kind fo model to buy, which direction to try to point to, what kind of wire will i need, that will be great.

very appreciate your help!!!

couple more notes:

1. someone mentioned a $15 comcast hd deal, i called them, they said no.
2. if i put an antenna out, then how to protect from bad weather, storm etc?

[miner]

Is anyone having trouble with 11-1? I just rewired my house to split my antenna signal to a second HD receiver (Dish 811) and scanned for channels. It finds 11 DT as 36, and when I choose 36-1, get around 85% signal, then the box locks up and reboots. I've tried several removes and adds, but it doesn't seem to help. My other 811 which is already mapped works fine.

I suspect that with the change to CW, the PSIP is not correct, but would like to know if i'm the only one.

[rdiotte]

It's now official....the start date for Comcast to carry CW11 on the HD tier (ch.111) is Tuesday, September 19th, 2006.


RDiotte
CE, KSTW CW11

[rdn]

Originally Posted by rdiotte

It's now official....the start date for Comcast to carry CW11 on the HD tier (ch.111) is Tuesday, September 19th, 2006.


RDiotte
CE, KSTW CW11

Do you know when (if) it will be carried by DirecTV?

[rdiotte]

Originally Posted by rdn

Do you know when (if) it will be carried by DirecTV?

Y'know....I was going to say that Directv & D* aren't ready to provide HD local on their distribution systems yet...but I just went to the forum that addresses Seattle DBS and I see where the DBS companies have already started on providing some of the DTV local channels on their systems......

No one from directv or D* has approached us yet for carriage....guess I'll have to shake some trees at corporate (CBS) and find out. thanx for asking.

RDiotte
CE, KSTW

[rdn]

Originally Posted by rdiotte

Y'know....I was going to say that Directv & D* aren't ready to provide HD local on their distribution systems yet...but I just went to the forum that addresses Seattle DBS and I see where the DBS companies have already started on providing some of the DTV local channels on their systems......

No one from directv or D* has approached us yet for carriage....guess I'll have to shake some trees at corporate (CBS) and find out. thanx for asking.

RDiotte
CE, KSTW

Yeah, they've had KING and KIRO for a few months. No KCPQ yet (it should be soon) and KOMO is only on Dish so far (I don't know why) but the DTV sats carrying locals in MPEG4 (which are spotbeam only) appear to have capability to add more channels. I can receive KSTW-DT just fine OTA, but I'm sure there are many who cannot.

[DanKurts]

Originally Posted by swang

hi guys,

i live in sammamish, just want to check out if it is possible to get some hdtv channels by an antenna.

i tried to use the antennaweb site, the map seems a bit outdated, so i am copying my latitude/longitude here:
47.60931n / 122.0876w

i'd hope it can be a indoor one, but can try out door if it's not on roof, don't want to deal with hoa.

I am new to this, so if you can recommand some details, such as what kind fo model to buy, which direction to try to point to, what kind of wire will i need, that will be great.

very appreciate your help!!!

couple more notes:

1. someone mentioned a $15 comcast hd deal, i called them, they said no.
2. if i put an antenna out, then how to protect from bad weather, storm etc?

swang
The lat/long are in the middle of the lake. What's the cross streets?
Dan

[pecocus]

For what it's worth, the published plan for DTV on HD locals is to carry NBC, CBS, ABC and Fox. No PBS, no UPN, no WB, and no CW. Having said that, I've heard that in some areas, they've started (or are going to start) carrying CW.

Paul

Originally Posted by rdn

Yeah, they've had KING and KIRO for a few months. No KCPQ yet (it should be soon) and KOMO is only on Dish so far (I don't know why) but the DTV sats carrying locals in MPEG4 (which are spotbeam only) appear to have capability to add more channels. I can receive KSTW-DT just fine OTA, but I'm sure there are many who cannot.

[rdn]

Originally Posted by pecocus

For what it's worth, the published plan for DTV on HD locals is to carry NBC, CBS, ABC and Fox. No PBS, no UPN, no WB, and no CW. Having said that, I've heard that in some areas, they've started (or are going to start) carrying CW.

Paul

The DirecTV web site shows WB, although I doubt there were many carried in HD (certainly not here).

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/packPr...ssetId=1100086

Since WB no longer exists and CW is the successor to both WB and UPN, it makes sense that they carry it.

[alwayslucky21]

Hoping to get some advice...

I live in the Mt. Baker neighborhood in South Seattle, near 30th & McClellan. I currently have a Winegard SS200 SquareShooter antenna mounted to my roof. I was looking for something aesthetically pleasing since I was placing it on the roof. I receive ABC/CBS/NBC pretty well between 304*-306* but cannot pick up FOX/CW/PBS at 246*/327* respectively. I know that my HR10-250 doesn't have the best reception for OTA, but I'm trying to prepare for a HR20-700 when available with active OTA reception.

My question is what are some recommendations if I want to have a single antenna set-up (or multiple, if others are indoors) what is the best way I can receive at least all of the majors, but preferrably CW/PBS as well?

Does anyone live near me and have a set-up that works well?

Lastly, any word on when D* may reach agreements with KOM and KCPQ?

Thanks,
Aaron

[rschroed]

Hi guys, Well, I just upacked my LCD HDTV and you know what that means, I need content! My plan is to try OTA until the HD tivo arrives, so...

This is what antennaweb tells me:

*	yellow - uhf	KCTS-DT	9.1	PBS	SEATTLE	WA		138°	1.6	41
*	yellow - uhf	KOMO-DT	4.1	ABC	SEATTLE	WA		235°	1.5	38
*	yellow - uhf	KING-DT	5.1	NBC	SEATTLE	WA		234°	1.4	48
*	yellow - uhf	KIRO-DT	7.1	CBS	SEATTLE	WA		241°	1.6	39
*	yellow - uhf	KMYQ-DT	22.1	MNT	SEATTLE	WA		138°	1.7	25
*	yellow - uhf	KSTW-DT	11.1	CW	TACOMA	WA		139°	1.7	36
*	yellow - uhf	KONG-DT	16.1	IND	EVERETT	WA		234°	1.4	31

now what?! I'm at 2020 Broadway (& Boston) on north capitol hill.

Is it worth my time to try OTA, and if so which antenna should I get? Would I be better off just calling comcast (ugh!) as my tv does QAM. I totally don't want a set top box!

Also, why isn't fox on that list? are they not broadcasting in HD or am I just too far away?

I totally realize these questions have all been asked a million times in some from or another, thanks for your patience!
Thanks!

[rdn]

Originally Posted by alwayslucky21

Hoping to get some advice...

I live in the Mt. Baker neighborhood in South Seattle, near 30th & McClellan. I currently have a Winegard SS200 SquareShooter antenna mounted to my roof. I was looking for something aesthetically pleasing since I was placing it on the roof. I receive ABC/CBS/NBC pretty well between 304*-306* but cannot pick up FOX/CW/PBS at 246*/327* respectively. I know that my HR10-250 doesn't have the best reception for OTA, but I'm trying to prepare for a HR20-700 when available with active OTA reception.

My question is what are some recommendations if I want to have a single antenna set-up (or multiple, if others are indoors) what is the best way I can receive at least all of the majors, but preferrably CW/PBS as well?

Does anyone live near me and have a set-up that works well?

Lastly, any word on when D* may reach agreements with KOM and KCPQ?

Thanks,
Aaron

D* and Tribune (owner of KCPQ) have reached an agreement. It should show up soon (Sept 1 was mentioned, but that didn't happen.) All the information I have seen indicates that KOMO and DTV still haven't come to terms. Since Dish carries KOMO, I doubt there is any serious issue, but why is it taking so long?

You might have better results with the missing stations if you re-orient the antenna, but that may impact your reception of KING, KIRO and KOMO. When KOMO and KCPQ are carried, that would leave KCTS, KSTW and KMYQ, all of whom are on Capitol Hill, so reaiming may help. These may eventually be carried on D*, although that might not happen until next year when new satellites are launched.