Missoula / Butte / Helena, MT - HDTV

[jh_az]

Just in case there are any non-vocal Bozeman residents lurking on the boards... here's a summary of what I've found out regarding high definition brodcasts in our great little town.

After emails failed, I finally gave in and called all of our local stations... I haven't heard back from NBC yet because I was referred to their Missoula parent station for HD info. I left a message for someone there but I really don't have high hopes of getting a return call. If you're familiar with the Bozeman stations you'll know that NBC has the worst transmitter which seems to indicate a lack of desire to upgrade anytime soon. I'll call back and update this message soon.

Another note: we don't have a local FOX station, which isn't too big of a deal because FOX just now announced their intention to convert to HDTV. Maybe by 2004 we'll have a local affiliate

First off, some good news:

I talked to an engineer at our CBS affiliate who told me that they'd be broadcasting in high definition around the September timeframe of this year (2003)! That's fantastic news since CBS has a nice set of HD programs. Their (new?) tower is going up on some mountain between Bozeman and Livingston... I'm sure people who have been here longer than I have would know what mountain it is, but I failed to write it down.

I also received a call back from our PBS affiliate who told me that they, too, are placing their new tower on that same mountain and should be broadcasting in the next few months. They have all the equipment either on order or in-house, they're just waiting on construction of their new site.

On to the bad news:

I talked with the station manager of our ABC affiliate who said that they're already broadcasting in digital in Butte. Since the FCC considers Butte our market area, they're already "legal" in their eyes. To make things worse, he said that there's a freeze on new transmitters so he's not sure if or when they'd get something new in Bozeman. That's kind of a bummer. I asked if I could get the Butte signal from here and he said nope, not the way the signal's pointing.

[space reserved for depressing NBC information as soon as I get it.]

One glimmer of hope, though, is that the ABC station manager heard that Bresnan Cable (who just bought out ATT Cable in Bozeman) is planning a big expansion. I asked if they were considering putting their digital signal on cable and he said he wasn't sure about what Bresnan's doing but that it's definitely a possibility.

So that's all I know for now. I'm going to call Bresnan cable and see if they'll let me in on any of their expansion plans, and I'll also follow up with NBC (keep your fingers crossed).

I'll update this thread with any new information, or you can check my personal web site: http://www.haslup.com/index.cgi/hdtv/

jason

[jh_az]

Well, it's September, the new shows have started, and it's time for a Bozeman HDTV update...

CBS isn't up yet, but I haven't called them to find out what their schedule is. To be fair, they did say around September, so although I was tempted to call them on September 1st, I resisted. And now it's 9/25 and I still haven't called them... October 1st is right around the corner.

On to some unexpected good news... last night I tuned in to The West Wing premier and on a whim decided to try something I had seen in TitanTV's listing -- the Butte NBC digital channel. I had my Sony scan for digital channels on channel 33 and lo and behold, channel 6.1 popped up on my display and all of a sudden I was watching The West Wing in glorious digital SDTV.

Yes, not high definition, but I gotta tell ya, it's 10 times better than the crappy signal I was getting from Bozeman's repeater (or whatever they use) on channel 42.

Something worthy of noting is that TitanTV is actually smart enough to know that our Digital NBC isn't broadcasting in high definition yet... none of the shows have the hdtv logo. However, I'm thrilled to even have the digital broadcast because that's one step closer to high definition than our other channels have made, although I expect our CBS to leapfrog our NBC once their tower is up.

I did try the Butte ABC digital channel, and it looked like my Sony was trying to pick up the digital channel that's there, but it couldn't get the signal. I'm not sure if a bigger antenna would help... TitanTV's front-end to antenna web suggested that I use an 88-inch beast up on my roof, but I'm not sure I can sneak that one by the wife. I have a powered radio-shack omni-directional (the one that looks like a 14-inch UFO) on my two-story, elavated maybe five additional feet on a mast. The signal quality of KTVM-DT is just above 'normal' on my Sony HD-200 (I think that's the model -- the Sony DirecTV HD receiver).

That's it so far... other interesting news is that Bresnan cable is rolling out cable modem this year... maybe they'll stick some high definition local channels on their system after that...? It's just nice to see infrastructure upgrades...

jason

[mrtcpip]

Hi Jason,

SO what is the latest on OTA HD reception in MT? Is it just the national broadcasters content that you can access? Are any of the local stations transmitting news or other content in HD or SD?

Thx

[jh_az]

Hi!

Unfortunately not much has changed since my last update... I haven't actually emailed anyone lately, but it seems like everyone's a bit late in rolling out HD.

The CBS station hasn't started broadcasting, but the last I heard was that they're hoping to get going before The Masters (April?). I'll probably email them soon about that.

NBC in Butte is still only broadcasting in digital, not HD. They were supposed to be doing actual HD by the end of 2003, but it doesn't appear to have happened. I still get their signal in Bozeman off and on. I haven't heard anything about their Bozeman tower... I should probably email them, as well.

Bresnan cable has rolled out Cablemodem, which is nice, but no updates on them rolling out HD stations. I suspect it's not a high priority for them.

And yeah -- it's all going to be national feeds only... I bet it will be a while until we see local HD stuff.

Once I hear more I'll post it here!

jason

[jh_az]

Hi folks,

Just wanted to report that tonight I noticed our local Bozeman CBS affiliate is broadcasting in high definition. I'm watching Navy NCIS in full 1080i as I type. I don't believe they have DD 5.1 sound, though, but maybe it's just this program.

It also looks like they're broadcasting an additional signal (7.2) that's a stretched version of their non-HD 7.1 programming. I guess you get the choice of black bars or stretched.

Good timing with the NCAA finals and The Masters!

jason

[jh_az]

Keeping the thread alive for the throng of Bozeman residents...

The local PBS station was broadcasting in full HDTV over the weekend on channel 8.3. Only watched a bit of it, but I thought it looked great. Doesn't seem like there's programming all the time, but that might be the way it is with PBS?

CBS is still going strong... Masters was nice but I wish we had DD 5.1 sound.

jason

[dlfnation]

Any updates on this? I'm about to move back to bozeman with my new HDTV.

[jh_az]

Nothing really new, unfortunately... CBS and PBS are still going, but our NBC affiliate hasn't started up that I've seen. I still get Butte's NBC broadcast every now and then, but it doesn't appear to be in HD, just digital.

I think I'll email the NBC guy I was talking with last fall... he might have an update. I"ll post any reply I get.

jason

ps... PBS is actually on 9.1, not 8.3 like my previous post.

[jh_az]

Update: heard back from the NBC guy... I gotta first say that Charlie has been really helpful. Anytime I've emailed him I get the most detailed and completely honest responses. I really appreciate it.

Anyhow, more good news/bad news: Good news for Butte: they'll have the Olympics in high definition and most likely dolby digital.

Bad news for Bozeman: we won't. They're actually working on an experimental thing where they'd receive the Butte broadcast by an antenna and then re-broadcast it to Bozeman. The problem now, though, is that there's a new station in Bozeman on channel 32 that's currently messing up their receiving of Butte's channel 33. If they can filter that out, though, we still have to wait 60-90 days for the actual Bozeman transmitter.

So that's it for Bozeman... I haven't checked in with ABC lately, but last year it didn't seem like they were too interested in HD for Bozeman. It might be time for another call with them, I suppose... Monday Night Football would be nice in HD.

jason

[dlfnation]

Well thats good to hear we might be getting NBC HDTV, although i would prefer to have abc in hd rather than NBC, especially for Monday Night Football. Jason thanks for all the research and info, hopefully we'll have some more good news soon.

[dlfnation]

Well I just got moved into my new place at bozeman just off the MSU campus and hooked up my equipment. I get the pbs hd channels and they look amazing. Unfortunately I can't seem to get the cbs hdtv signal. Any chance you would know where the tower is broadcasting from? Thanks

[jh_az]

Hi,

Yep, the tower's between Bozeman and Livingston... but it's the same tower as the PBS station (according to the CBS guy), so that's weird. Channel 13, right? (7.1) I think it's 13... it's definitely VHF, that's for sure (not near my TV right now).

I'm using a Radio Shack powered omni-directional antenna on my roof... it gets CBS and PBS great, but not so good with local NBC or ABC (SD, not HD).

Just for grins try channel 33 (6.1) at night to see if you pull in Butte's NBC

jason

[CPanther95]

This is now the Official thread for Missoula/Butte/Bozeman/Helena.

Can anyone summarize the HD available in these markets?

[dlfnation]

I just rescanned my for hdtv stations and to my surpise I found a new one. Apparently the local NBC station KTVM has begun broadcastiong in HD. It comes up as 6.1 on my tv.

[John Sully]

Here's the skinny as of 02/20/05:

KTVM 6.1, HDTV, DD 5.1 when the programming is broadcast in it.

Their signal had some real problems, but the last couple of days the situation is much improved. It seems like they are rebroadcasting the Missoula station though since the news isn't localized for Bozeman.

KUSM 8.1, 8.2 HDTV on 8.1, nothing on 8.2.

8.2 is supposed to be PBS Kids.

KBZK 13.1 Nothing.

These guys have been saying that they would be on the air for ages. They obviously aren't taking things very seriously. Occasionally they do have a signal, but don't seem to be broadcasting anything. I need to contact their engineer.

I live in the middle of town and am using an pre-amped pair of rabbit ears.

--John

[John Sully]

Update as of 2/3/05:

KBZK is on 7.1 and 7.2. 7.1 is HD and 7.2 is stretch-o-vision.
KTVM is on 6.1 in HD, but the signal is intermittent.
KUSM is on 8.1 in HD.

I still don't know what 13.1 is, perhaps KWYB. It shows up as black sometimes, as no signal othertimes. No programming has been seen. I'm trying to get in touch with KWYB, but they don't seem to want to talk to viewers.

[John Sully]

KWYB does not have any timetable for getting their signal up. BOOOO!

[Mr_Griff]

I live in Bozeman and recently upgraded my DirecTV receiver to the HD Tivo (HR10-250). I can no longer receive the NBC (6-1) HD channel like I could with the non-Tivo DirecTV receiver. Does anyone else in Bozeman have this receiver?

When I use the off-satellite antenna signal tester I get a good signal for channel 34. But I can't seem to get it added to the guide. My guess is that the 6-1 channel from Butte is overriding the Bozeman 6-1 or something.

[futurefarmer]

Griff,

I just upgraded today, and i can stil get NBC, CBS, and PBS. Picture looks better, the guide is a bit slow, but that doesn't matter when you can watch great HD shows anytime you want.

[Mr_Griff]

My wish now is that the programming guide would have our OTA channel information. Butte and Bozeman being in the same DMA really screws us here in Bozeman when all the programming information in the guide is for Butte.

[cheer]

Any information about Missoula? Researching for my mom who is about to get a new plasma and I'm wondering what her options are.

I called Bresnan and the CSR I talked to claimed that they wouldn't have HD locals until 2007. Looking at TitanTV it seems that at least CBS and NBC are broadcasting in HD locally...can anyone confirm? What sort of antennae have you used?

--chris

[Erik_Anders]

I recently got an antenna at radioshack, an indoor model. Im located at the base of the South Hills, and was able to pick up NBC, PBS, and CBS in HD, and was using the antenna in the basement.

[cheer]

Thanks very much for the info! If I can avoid climbing up to the roof, that's a big plus.

[grizzfan]

I recently got an antenna at radioshack, an indoor model. Im located at the base of the South Hills, and was able to pick up NBC, PBS, and CBS in HD, and was using the antenna in the basement.

I'm about 100 feet or so in elevation above SW Higgins avenue and have a clear shot at the anntennas for ABC, CBS & NBC near Snow Bowl and The PBS site on Dean Stone is right behind me and much closer. I get the three broadcast channels from SB on rabbit ears, but am unable to pull in PBS as I'm "shooting" the directional antenna through the house.

CBS PQ is much better than the other two and, come to think of it, I've never actually seen HD on the ABC channel.

I'll probably mount some kind of outdoor UHF antenna on the East or South side of the house and join that into the rabbit ears.

Tom

[cheer]

According to TitanTV, only CBS and NBC are broadcasting hi-def; PBS and ABC are digital SD.

I'm not so familiar with the area...if someone lives near-ish to downtown (say, a few blocks from Rockin' Rudy's), do you think rabbit-ears will grab CBS and NBC?

--chris

[cheer]

Here's another question...I see that Bresnan now claims to offer HDTV. Anyone know what local channels they offer in Missoula? Also, does anyone know if you can pull them in via a QAM-capable HDTV? In theory they are not supposed to require that you get a digital box or whatever, but...

[grizzfan]

According to TitanTV, only CBS and NBC are broadcasting hi-def; PBS and ABC are digital SD.

I'm not so familiar with the area...if someone lives near-ish to downtown (say, a few blocks from Rockin' Rudy's), do you think rabbit-ears will grab CBS and NBC?

--chris

I'm told by the engineer at the local station that they are broadcasting HD 100% of the time, but can't get it yet to see! As for a near Rocking Rudy's location, as long as you have an unobstructed view of the Snowbowl area rabbit ears should be OK. If not you might have to get a UHF/VHF antenna that is more sophisticated designed for obstructed paths. (NBC is broadcasting in VHF)

Here's another question...I see that Bresnan now claims to offer HDTV. Anyone know what local channels they offer in Missoula? Also, does anyone know if you can pull them in via a QAM-capable HDTV? In theory they are not supposed to require that you get a digital box or whatever, but...

Bresnan currently broadcasts local CBS only in HD and a couple of cable shows. Not worth the money in my opinion. If you have a QAM-capable HDTV (I have a 42" Vizio Plasma) you can get anything posted over the air (OTA) and, as I've said, I get it with rabbit ears.

Tom

[cheer]

Thanks VERY much. Just being able to pull in CBS with a QAM-capable TV would be a nice plus, but I'll probably also explore the rabbit ears.

Thanks again!

[ChrisEarnhardt]

Just subscribed to Missoula HDTV with Bresnan. I'll pick up the receiver wednesday, so I'll find out how things look. As of right now, this is what we have in Missoula:

706 KUSM-D (PBS)
710 KPAX-D (Local CBS affiliate)
755 DHDTV (Discovery)
779 NFL-HD (NFL)
785 UHD (No idea what this is)
786 TNT-HD (TNT)
787 ESPN-HD (ESPN)
788 HDNet
789 HDNMV (Not sure what this is)
790 HBO-HD

[cheer]

Originally Posted by ChrisEarnhardt

785 UHD (No idea what this is)

That is Universal HD.

789 HDNMV (Not sure what this is)

That is HDNet Movies, a sister channel to HDNet.