Denver, CO - OTA

[David Bott]

This thread is continuned from...
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/013294.html

Thanks!

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David Bott
It's A World Of Entertainment...Experience It!
AV Science/AVS Forum Admin
http://www.avscience.com
http://www.avsforum.com
The Nate Home Theater

[Hot]

Well we have now gone to Part 3.

I called KOAA in Pueblo to see if they will also broadcast their digital NBC signal from Colorado Springs. They told me they would and it might be receivable in southern Denver.

It may be possible to get Jay Leno in HDTV from KOAA before our great KUSA even thinks digital.

I wish congress would change the law to let all network HDTV be delivered by satellite bypassing these local stations who are not pushing for full power HDTV.

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Hot

[jeffden]

Maybe I should have bought the 100 inch antenna after all.

Jeff

[Greg T]

Anyone know of any good Antennae installers,.. I'd like to add one in my attic. I'm tired of mountain my $19 UHF antennae on a flower hanger, out front, every Tuesday night for NYPD blue.

"I wish congress would change the law to let all network HDTV be delivered by satellite bypassing these local stations who are not pushing for full power HDTV."

I total agree.

[ADent]

To head off the question ahead of time:

"What is the status of HDTV in Denver"

It is the same Today as it has been for months and months and months. Update: More stations in low power, progress on KWGN and KRMA full power.
Update: LCG has planning approval - KWGN-DT in High Power (11/2003).
Update: KMGH moves to Republic Plaza (1/2006)

FOX : KDVR : TV31 : DTV32 On air at Lookout Mountain with a full scale antenna. Can run full power (but think they run about 1/3 to 1/2 power). Fall 2004 and they are now using the Fox 720p feed.

PBS : KRMA : TV6 : DTV18 : Broadcasts a low power signal from the top of Republic Plaza in downtown Denver. They run the national feed in the evenings and local loop during the afternoon. They now have approval from JeffCo to build a full power antenna on Mt. Morrison. Expect 12-18 months from final approval in 4/2003 until OTA? Currently they plan on moving the 1KW antenna to Mt Morrison and run that for awhile before going full power. (See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...68#post2037268 for plans). This will increase ERP, but still low power. Also they plan to meet the 50% simulcasting FCC requirement, mostly during the day.

ABC : KMGH : TV7 : DTV17 Broadcasts a low power signal from the top of Republic Plaza. Part of LCG antenna group. Moved to RP Jan 2006.

CBS : KCNC : TV4 : DTV35 : On air 12/31/2001. Broadcasts a low power signal from the the top of Republic Plaza. Part of LCG antenna group.

NBC : KUSA : TV9 : DTV16: On air 12/2002. Broadcasts a low power signal from the the top of Republic Plaza. Part of LCG antenna group.

PBS : KBDI : TV12 : DTV38 : Testing. Awaiting equipment. Located on Squaw Mtn.

KWGN : TV 2 : DT34 :ON THE AIR - 11/18/2003. First high power (450KW ERP) true HDTV (Fox was 480p) in Denver! Eventual plans for 1MW.

KDEN: TV25 : DTV29 : Low power non HDTV broacast from Longmont.

KWHD: TV 53 : DTV46 : On air 4/6/2003.

KTVD : TV20 : DTV19: On Air Jan 2006. Broadcasts a low power signal from the the top of Republic Plaza. Part of LCG antenna group.

Others stations (PAX,etc):If they want to broadcast from Lookout Mtn it does not look like it will happen soon. Colo Springs and Cheyenne should be on the air in 2003 for far north and far south viewers. Some stations On air as of late 2003 - others in progress.

Approval for the LCG tower was given in Mid 2003. Sent to Judge Jackson. Sent back to County Commisioners. Sent back to Judge Jackson. Sent back to County Commisioners. Sent back to Judge Jackson (hearing planned in 4/2006?)

CBS-HD West or East feed is available via Dish Network and others via Canadian systems StarChoice and ExpressVu. Fox also available. DirecTV carries some HDTV, must have waiver.

Look to for a more complete status here: http://www.santellaproductions.com/dtv/onairstatus.htm .

What can I do? This post has some tips: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post6963329 .

1/8/2002-Updated to show KCNC low power now on the air.
2/25/2003 - Update to show KUSA low power on air and added KBDI, KWGN, KDEN lines.
11/18/2003 - PROGRESS. KWGN-DT on air.
9/2004 - Update Fox
1/20/2006GH to RP. UPN on RP.

[JohnJr]

Good summary Adent,

And I'll propose that the active issue before us on the table is...

**************

[Wabisabi]
It looks like the first hearing for the Eldorado tower proposal is going to be held on September 5th, at 6:00 in the Jeffco building.
Should the AVS forum attend these hearings to ensure that the voice of the consumer is heard?
Should we (as a group) take a position in support or in opposition to this case? (or should we be neutral?)

-Wabisabi

[JohnJr]
Wabisabi,
I think it would be great if we could get out a large number of AVS members and my personal opinion is that we should definately support the El Dorado application. I believe that they can cover the majority of the Denver area, protect the Boulder RF quiet zone, and ramp up quickly to support HD Antenna's. Count me in!

-John

[mbuchana]
I had been wondering what was happening with the Pinnacle Towers Eldorado application.
I'm not opposed to the application, but I don't feel all that passionate about supporting it because there seems to be little support for it from the area broadcasters.

On the other hand, Pinnacle would probably not actually build the towers without some type of belief that they would get tenants for it. County approval may just be step 1.

If I were attending the meeting (which I won't be able to), it would primarily be to let JeffCo know that I want to see the impasse on DTV towers ended, and to show that demand for DTV does exist.

In any case, I would be interested in what takes place at this hearing.

Mark

***************

I had originally thought in my no-brainer way, that everybody would hop on and do everything they could to help push the El Dorado High-Power application, but in circumspect realize that there are probably members that would prefer no high-power HDTV to 400' Towers on Pinnacle.

I'd like to see more discussion about Wabisabi's questions above, and hopefully we as a group can come to some conclusions on how to procede.

-John

[JMartinko]

The front page headline article in Sunday's Boulder Daily Camera is on HD and the Eldorado Tower Application.
http://www.bouldernews.com/

For reference after Sunday use: http://www.bouldernews.com/news/county/02atower.html

It is posted without comment so as not to offend those who do not like my opinions posted here.

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jm in Boulder

[This message has been edited by JMartinko (edited 09-02-2001).]

[mknoebel]

Thanks for the links! It seems as though the Camera is much more willing to educated people on HD related issues than any other paper in the state. If only we could get the Post/News to slap some stories on the front page, we might be able to spread the word...

Originally posted by JMartinko:

It is posted without comment so as not to offend those who do not like my opinions posted here.

It's been mentioned before, but those who do not like your opinions are just a vocal MINORITY. I would welcome a return to your opinions on these topics.

-Mike

[santellavision]

JMartinko,


Thanks for the links. I just wonder about their facts, when they say things like this:

The rabbit ears and wiry antennas won't work anymore.

Today, televisions capable of receiving digital television airwaves cost at least $2,000,
but the prices are expected to drop. Soon, everyone without cable or a satellite will
need this kind of TV.

I mean, these are not accurate. First, my wirey 'old technology' antenna still works great receiving HDTV,
and everybody will not have to buy a $2K set right off, but just a OTA HD receiver.

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Ernie's Home Theatre


[This message has been edited by santellavision (edited 09-03-2001).]

[Hot]

September, the countdown to KCNC-DT low power transmission from Republic Plaza. Will they be on the air this month with CBS HDTV? We shall see!

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Hot

[joej]

I just wanted to take a minute and thank everyone that helped me get OTA HD at my place (Orchard Rd. & Buckley Rd). I ended up with the Channel Master antenna (model 3023 I think) and when I first put it up in the garage, still no signal from channel 18. I took a long piece of cable and started moving it around and found that up on the landing on the second floor of the house I could get a usable signal. So I figured that I just needed to get it higher. I didn't think the 15 feet or so from the garage to the landing would make much difference, but it made a huge difference. Of course the wife wouldn't let me leave an 84" antenna on the landing. I told her the highest place in the house was the ceiling fan in our bedroom and that I could let the fan double as a rotor, she didn't go for that either. So I spent all day yesterday (nice way to spend Labor Day) up in the attic and running cable. I now have a signal strength of around 94 on channel 18.

Once again just wanted to thank everyone for there help.

Come on KCNC get with the program, I am ready for some football in HD.

Thanks
Joe

[pookers]

Info.....
Thank you for your interest in KMGH-DT. Our Digital transmitter is located
atop our building at Speer and Lincoln and operates at low power. Line of
sight to the top of our building is necessary to be able to receive a
signal. KMGH and other broadcasters are presently working with Jefferson
County to resolve issues regarding the broadcast of High Definition signals
from the Lookout Mountain transmitter site.

Sorry for the delay, I have been out of the office for the last couple of
weeks.


Thanks
Rick Craddock
Director of Engineering
KMGH

[piquin]

joej, that's good news, good job. I live in the same neiborhood and I haven't bought the STB becuase I didn't think I would get any OTA channels, but now, after I read your post, I will look into it. what STB do you have? and where did you buy the antenna? I am in the piney creek area, how about you?

[piquin]

joej,

Great! I will look into Radio Shack's, I also live in (The Vista), I am closer to you than what I thought, maybe we could get together to chat, I never seen HDTV on my 56H80 and can't wait to get on the bandwagon...

Thanks.

[joej]

piquin

I sent you an e-mail about getting together.

Later
Joe

[joej]

piquin

yes I am in Piney Creek (the Vista) as well. I have the Sony HD-100 that I got from Soundtrack (and yes the fan is damn loud, not sure I would go that route again). I got the antenna via mail order from Stark Electronic's. There was a link to them in the previous thread on this topic. However, I think that you could go with the Radio Shack 100"er and be o.k. as well. If nothing else you could get it and see if you get a signal, nice thing about Radio Shack is you can always take it back if you have to.

I watched PBS this weekend, not sure if it was the national feed or what but they a special on Azaleas', believe me when I tell you I am not an Azalea type guy but I was mesmerized by the picture. It was pretty cool.

If I can do anything to help, let me know.

Later
Joe

[MSaemisch]

In case you all have missed it elsewhere, we HD-starved Denverites will have one more HD channel available to us as of Thursday, September 6th:
http://www.hd.net/news.html

Since they have offices in Colorado, and have already scheduled some Rockies games, I would assume that some of the Avalanche games will be among the 65 NHL games they are promising.

This is exciting! I wrote a note to the Denver Post with this info in case they might be interested in running a story. Hopefully, all of this will generate a little more interest in HD. When they get going with the 18 hours of HD content (4 Oct), we all need to make sure our local Soundtracks, Best Buys, etc., have them tuned in on their demo sets.

I actually find this much more attractive than getting network stuff since the networks have lost me with their crappy shows in the last few years - or I have graduated from their target audience.

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Mike Saemisch

Visit our home theater here .

[sjcardona]

Is anybody having problems getting FOX to come in lately. I usually get it at about 85% here in Highlands Ranch and in just the last couple days I am getting no signal.

[joej]

Yes, I've noticed the same thing about Fox lately. The last two days I have had no signal either. I don't watch Fox much because to the stupid way the crop the picture.

Does anyone have a time frame for CBS? I thought it was supposed to be the first of September.

Tonight is the first broadcast of HDNet. I will be watching!
Baseball in HiDef.... very cool.

[JMartinko]

In todays Daily Camera
http://www.bouldernews.com/news/county/06atowr.html

posted as requested, without personal comment.

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jm in Boulder

[Nick B]

I talked to KCNC yesterday. Latest on-air estimate is mid September to early October.

Nick

[joej]

Mid September, early October.... Hmm I hope I get to see some College football this year. Maybe it will be up by Christmas.

Also there was an article in the Denver Post today in the sports page on 7D titled "High definition TV is here".

A couple of quotes that I thought were interesting:

"The first national all high-definition TV network will launch from Denver at 6 o'clock tonight with an all-sports focus."

"All production and broadcast facilities are based at Colorado Studios in Denver"

"While local stations (notably KMGH Channel 7) and national broadcasters have experimented with high-definition telecasts, HDNet will be the first service committed to all high-definition programming"

"HDNet is available on Channel 199 to DirecTV subscribers at no additional monthly cost"

Seems a shame to me no mention of KRMA especially since they seem to be the leaders here in Denver.

The article (I couldn't find it on the web page or I would have posted a link), sure gives some good plugs and might really start people here thinking about HDTV. Especially now that the Rockies and the Av's are going to be in Hi-Def.

Nice article.

Also the deal at El Dorado made the KOA news this morning, said that Senator Mark Udal (I think he was a senator or rep.) was dead set against it.

At least HDTV is finally getting some press around here.

[Hot]

Here is a lint to a Rocky Mountain News article on the Pinnacle Tower proposal.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...818010,00.html

They seem serious about wanting these towers. However, no local stations want to go to Eldorado.

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Hot

[This message has been edited by Hot (edited 09-06-2001).]

[Greg T]

I hope this was a VERY cushioned estimate. Here is a letter from the manager of engineering at KCNC. Dated Sept 5th.

"Thank you for inquiring about KCNC's progress in building our HDTV broadcast
plant. Please accept this form letter as my response - we have been getting
a significant level of e-mail and have been unable to respond to each one
individually. We will start the HDTV low power transmitter installation on
Republic Plaza (downtown Denver) next week. If you can receive the KRMA-DT,
PBS, channel 18 HDTV signal from the Republic Plaza, you will have no
trouble receiving our channel 35 HDTV signal.

There have been some delays in equipment purchases and installations for the
studio portion of the HDTV station. It now looks like mid-October will be a
more realistic date for the completion and on-air date for channel 35.

Thanks - David Layne"

[pookers]

Yes, I am unable to get ch. 32 anymore. I have been checking the past two days.....
I e-mailed them at their FOX31 web page. Who knows......

[Tweakophyte]

Does anybody know how high the Sprint Broadband tower is? Is that lookout mountain?

It seems astetics and RFI are two of the big issues of those that oppose the towers. What if they made the towers blend in like they've done with a few of the new cell phone towers? I saw a news clip on one of them a few weeks back.

Maybe the locals would wear tin foil hats? If they put them in the shape of a pyramid it could enhance their chockra (sp?).

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After 6 years I am getting ready to upgrade my HT. Research now, purchase in the summer... er, uh, September... grrr...lagging upgrades...
- Rear Channels in...
...now waiting for DPL II

[pookers]

Watched the Rangers game (well most of it) on ch. 199 ;ast night.....Totally cool! Any one else?

[Hot]

I tried again today and FOX KDVR-DT 32 does not have a signal.

I also checked channel 35 to see if KCNC was testing. Nothing yet.

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Mike aka Hot

[Mgibsoj]

Wouldn't it be nice if 32 was to lease their tower space and DTV antenna to a network that has HD material? Maybe it's a test to see if anyone would notice their absense. I only noticed on checking for 35 that 32 was down, since I can't stand the cropping. I get about as sharp a picture (besides being the complete picture) on DirecTV. Why they won't even pass thru Fox's 480p is a mystery to me. Maybe with leasing it to KMGH they can get some return on their expenditure! (Wishful thinking, I know...).

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Mark Gibson

[santellavision]

Mgibsoj,

From what i understand, KDVR doesn't have the equipment needed to switch the sources to feed the DTV32 X-mitter. They need to be able to switch from the Fox Networkfeed in 480p to 480i for local commercial insertion.

I don't understand their logic at all. I mean, they've been spending mega-bucks on powering the X-mitter in near full-power that very few are watching. Yet they won't spend the miniscule amount for a switcher/router?

'Dilbert' logic i guess?

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Ernie'sHomeTheatre