Denon 5910 Owners Thread

DoctorO · 02-10-05, 07:25 PM

Let’s get the discussion rolling! We installed the 5910 tonight. As it is not yet calibrated to our display there is not much fair to say about the visuals. It is replacing a 5900 in our setup.

A few observations about the cosmetics, in comparison with the 5900. The 5910 looks big and square compared to the more sleek lines of the 5900. All the logos are white printings behind a glass panel. Much less attractive than the silkscreened on aluminum of the 5900. There are brightly blue lit logos for DVD-Audio/Video and SACD. These dim when the unit panel is dimmed. What does not dim, however, is the big circular power button. And for some unfathomable reason, it is GREEN when the unit is on! That’s more than a matter of taste—it is flatly annoying. It displays a large red circle when on standby.

As for the rear panel, the RCA connections are the classiest I have ever seen. However, unlike the predecessor, none of them are color coded, oddly. They are very nicely spaced, which helps with connections if you are working in tight corners. The DVI jack is a cheap looking silver one that looks very out of place. Power cord attached snugly.

The remote is nothing special and probably no one would want to use it. It does have full backlighting you may switch on. It also has output format switching for DVI/HDMI which is very helpful for our purposes, and saves a lot of running up to the unit (wow, did I get flamed when I complained about that aspect of the 5900…). Otherwise, clumsy with tiny labels.

Navigation is not the fastest but significantly faster than the 5900, at least with the firmware we were running. We did do some SACD listening, via the analog outputs, multichannel. Played a few tracks off Peter Gabriel Up which sound like mud on lesser players, which I have listened to many times for comparisons. Maybe it was just my imagination, but to me, it sounded noticeably more open and detailed than the 5900. And then I did not feel so bad.

As an aside, while this thing is pricey, I counted 27 more expensive DVD players in a current buyers guide from Sound and Vision. Helps to put it in perspective.

DreamCatcher · 02-10-05, 07:44 PM

DoctorO,
Thanks for the mini review!
Now for the good stuff.....
How's the picture from this bad boy?
Are you able to view using it's HDMI output or are you limited to component?

Regards,

dc

JasonColeman · 02-10-05, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DoctorO
As an aside, while this thing is pricey, I counted 27 more expensive DVD players in a current buyers guide from Sound and Vision...

Like Meridian's Reference 800?

As a 3910 owner, I was also surprised at the lack of color coding on the back of the unit. It's not like I need it to know which cable to plug in where, but it seems like such a standard that the omittance of it seems like...well, an omittance.

Jason

Kris Deering · 02-10-05, 08:36 PM

When your chief complaint is the lack of color coding on the RCA jacks, things are looking good!!

JasonColeman · 02-10-05, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kris Deering
When your chief complaint is the lack of color coding on the RCA jacks, things are looking good!!

For sure...I love the 3910!

Jason

DoctorO · 02-10-05, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DreamCatcher
DoctorO,
Thanks for the mini review!
Now for the good stuff.....
How's the picture from this bad boy?
Are you able to view using it's HDMI output or are you limited to component?

Regards,

dc

Using DVI but will have to calibrate the display to it on the weekend. Using the settings from the 5900, things look "off".

DreamCatcher · 02-10-05, 09:10 PM

"off" ?

uzun · 02-10-05, 09:27 PM

Does the 5910 have a source direct mode similar to the 3910's? If so, what does source direct bypass (bass crossover/distance/levels/etc)? It was the only way I could get the 3910 to play SACD's without converting the DSD data to PCM first.

DoctorO · 02-11-05, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DreamCatcher
"off" ?

Out of the box, hue and black levels don't look quite right, but that's on display settings calibrated for the 5900. Will calibrate tomorrow.

DoctorO · 02-11-05, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by uzun
Does the 5910 have a source direct mode similar to the 3910's? If so, what does source direct bypass (bass crossover/distance/levels/etc)? It was the only way I could get the 3910 to play SACD's without converting the DSD data to PCM first.

It does have a mode but I cannot find in the manual clarification as to how it functions. Maybe Kris can answer that one.

Q of BanditZ · 02-11-05, 10:37 AM

Does anyone know if there are any professional reviews floating out there for this bad boy yet?

zeropoint · 02-11-05, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Q of BanditZ
Does anyone know if there are any professional reviews floating out there for this bad boy yet?

Of course, there's Kris' professional review at Secrets.

I trust very few other reviewer's judgment as much as his. Very few others have equal experience or knowledge of the field, or are as thorough in testing.

Likewise, this is the kind of language they typically use. Player X is one of the best... Very few others have... There aren't many others that... They must all go to the same school of non-committal writing. They never specify which is as good or better. Maybe they don't remember, or maybe it's just a vague form of writing that says very little with many words...padding...and leaves the author an escape route in case they open themselves to criticism.

The way they write excludes specifics, and requires that you scour previous reviews in an attempt to deduce which devices they consider equal or superior, but to little avail.

Erm, I'll shut up now

NorthJersey · 02-11-05, 11:50 AM

does the 5910 pass 480i over HDMI ?

apesma · 02-11-05, 12:01 PM

We know about the video quality, lets hear about the audio quality through the analog connections especially cds.

Kris Deering · 02-11-05, 12:06 PM

The 5910 does not pass 480i over HDMI and never will. It would require a hardware and software upgrade according to Denon. Plus, why would you even want to bypass the Realta scaling??

If you are using the HDMI or DVI setting go into the user memory settings and set the contrast level to -2. This is the only way to get proper above white levels. Make sure HDMI output is set to "Normal" and IRE is set to 0 as before.

In the user memory settings I recommend setting the detail enhancer to 1 and the NR filter to 1 as well. With my tests this resulted in the best images. All other settings should be left in their default settings (with the exception of contrast to -2 ONLY IF USING DVI or HDMI!!!). Use your display controls for any tweaks you need to do after that point.

If you go source direct you do not get bass management but you still get time alignment and channel level control. This does keep the DSD signal from being converted to PCM.

Kris Deering · 02-11-05, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by apesma
We know about the video quality, lets hear about the audio quality through the analog connections especially cds.

As good as anything I've heard from Denon before. Reminds me more of the DVD-9000 in this regard then the 5900.

apesma · 02-11-05, 12:18 PM

Thanks Kris
How many steps above the 2900 would the audio be?

apesma · 02-11-05, 12:31 PM

I'd like to see an audio comparison between the 5910 and the Mccormack UDP as they're about the same price. We know the video is better in the 5910 but audio is my major concern.

DoctorO · 02-11-05, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by apesma
Thanks Kris
How many steps above the 2900 would the audio be?

I would say quite a few steps. The 5900 easily bested the 2900 in our setup with regards to sound, and the 5910 sounds better than the 5900 (all of these used multichannel analog outs for SACD, with the pre-pro doing the adjustments). Of course results will vary for other ways of listening.

Kris Deering · 02-11-05, 01:46 PM

DoctorO

If your pre-pro is doing adjustments then you probably aren't hearing as much of the player. Adjustments usually require a A to D then D to A conversion. You should be comparing with a pure pass through and do any tweaking in the Denon.

I am trying to arrange to get the UDP right now. Haven't heard back on it yet. Right now I have the Teac Esoteric UX-1 which is about $13K. I will be doing a little bit of comparing on the audio front with them.

DoctorO · 02-11-05, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kris Deering
DoctorO

If your pre-pro is doing adjustments then you probably aren't hearing as much of the player. Adjustments usually require a A to D then D to A conversion.

Absolutely, thus my caveat re different ways of listening. I heard all three players with the same pre/pro setup, at least.

DreamCatcher · 02-11-05, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by apesma
I'd like to see an audio comparison between the 5910 and the Mccormack UDP as they're about the same price. We know the video is better in the 5910 but audio is my major concern.

I thought the 5900 was on par with the UDP-1, sonically, so the 5910 should be a notch or two above.

Question for Kris or others,
If your display had a native resolution of 1366x768, which my Panasonic 65" plasma has, would I be better off keeping my Pioneer 59AVi which can output 480i through it's HDMI output and adding an external scaler like the iScan HD+ to output 768. Or is the 5910 so good that it would be the better choice?

dc

Kris Deering · 02-11-05, 02:40 PM

Well the Iscan HD+ doesn't support 480i in via DVI yet so that may not be a huge benefit. But supposedly this feature is in the works. When it does come through that would probably be the preferred method IF your plasma lets you input a native resolution signal (not all do). If it doesn't then the 5910 does have performance benefits over the Pioneer but I don't know how much your display may limit their appearance.

DreamCatcher · 02-11-05, 03:36 PM

Thanks for the reply Kris,
I don't understand why my display would "limit their appearance"?
You may well be right about the display not accepting a native resolution. I know it won't accept 480i.
480p, 720p, 1080i yes, but not 480i....

dc

Evangelo2 · 02-11-05, 04:19 PM

How is the 5910's performance over component cable? I know it can't upconvert over component.

I have an older Sony Progressive DVD Player and was looking to upgrade and am thinking the 5910 can last me forever, even when I get a new television in a few years with hdmi and\or dvi input.

Any thoughts on doing this? Am I better off just saving my money and seeing whats out in about 2 years when im ready to buy a new television? Thanks.

-Evangelo2

Kris Deering · 02-11-05, 04:27 PM

Dreamcatcher

It would limit the appearance slightly because the plasma will have to rescale and Panasonic's internal scalers are poor at best. They tend to overly soften the image.

DoctorO · 02-12-05, 10:43 AM

We watched a short on the 5910 last night (not calibrated yet). The family's response was: What is that green light? The big round green power button light. Unfortunately, our player sits beneath our display. So, it is pretty distracting. My wife thought it looked like the cigarette lighter in our truck! Who was the fool who picked GREEN?! And who designed it to stay on when the rest of the front panel is dimmed? We may end up moving the player...

zeropoint · 02-12-05, 11:41 AM

Does the green power-button light dim with the display?

Green makes sense for ON, albeit muted, but I thought blue was the new LED colour.

How hard is it for manufacturers to consult the customer base, at least regarding some things, such as aesthetics?

DoctorO · 02-12-05, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zeropoint
Does the green power-button light dim with the display?

No it does not dim, that's the problem. If I ever get it serviced I'll ask to have it disabled. Or I could put electricians tape over it, like some people do with the "Check Engine" dashboard light!

DreamCatcher · 02-12-05, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DoctorO
No it does not dim, that's the problem. If I ever get it serviced I'll ask to have it disabled. Or I could put electricians tape over it, like some people do with the "Check Engine" dashboard light!

A little trick I use is to get some of that blue 3M painters tape, cut out a circle, in your case, use a black marker to sort of paint it black, then stick it over the light. That way you don't leave a sticky residue where the tape was.
So DoctorO, what's your take on the 5910? Is it worth the price of admission?

dc

02-10-05, 07:25 PM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
DoctorO Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 430	Denon 5910 Owners Thread Let’s get the discussion rolling! We installed the 5910 tonight. As it is not yet calibrated to our display there is not much fair to say about the visuals. It is replacing a 5900 in our setup. A few observations about the cosmetics, in comparison with the 5900. The 5910 looks big and square compared to the more sleek lines of the 5900. All the logos are white printings behind a glass panel. Much less attractive than the silkscreened on aluminum of the 5900. There are brightly blue lit logos for DVD-Audio/Video and SACD. These dim when the unit panel is dimmed. What does not dim, however, is the big circular power button. And for some unfathomable reason, it is GREEN when the unit is on! That’s more than a matter of taste—it is flatly annoying. It displays a large red circle when on standby. As for the rear panel, the RCA connections are the classiest I have ever seen. However, unlike the predecessor, none of them are color coded, oddly. They are very nicely spaced, which helps with connections if you are working in tight corners. The DVI jack is a cheap looking silver one that looks very out of place. Power cord attached snugly. The remote is nothing special and probably no one would want to use it. It does have full backlighting you may switch on. It also has output format switching for DVI/HDMI which is very helpful for our purposes, and saves a lot of running up to the unit (wow, did I get flamed when I complained about that aspect of the 5900…). Otherwise, clumsy with tiny labels. Navigation is not the fastest but significantly faster than the 5900, at least with the firmware we were running. We did do some SACD listening, via the analog outputs, multichannel. Played a few tracks off Peter Gabriel Up which sound like mud on lesser players, which I have listened to many times for comparisons. Maybe it was just my imagination, but to me, it sounded noticeably more open and detailed than the 5900. And then I did not feel so bad. As an aside, while this thing is pricey, I counted 27 more expensive DVD players in a current buyers guide from Sound and Vision. Helps to put it in perspective.

02-10-05, 07:44 PM	#2 \| Link
DreamCatcher AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 1,847	DoctorO, Thanks for the mini review! Now for the good stuff..... How's the picture from this bad boy? Are you able to view using it's HDMI output or are you limited to component? Regards, dc __________________ Live Long & Prosper

02-10-05, 08:36 PM	#4 \| Link
Kris Deering Avid HD Watcher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Port Orchard, WA Posts: 5,323 Classified Rating: 100% (6)	When your chief complaint is the lack of color coding on the RCA jacks, things are looking good!! __________________ Contributing Writer Home Theater Magazine "If it isn't in HD, I'm not buying it"

02-10-05, 09:10 PM	#7 \| Link
DreamCatcher AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 1,847	"off" ? __________________ Live Long & Prosper

02-10-05, 09:27 PM	#8 \| Link
uzun AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 2,794	Does the 5910 have a source direct mode similar to the 3910's? If so, what does source direct bypass (bass crossover/distance/levels/etc)? It was the only way I could get the 3910 to play SACD's without converting the DSD data to PCM first. __________________ State of the Union My Home Theater My DVHS-HD Movies My DVD Collection

02-11-05, 10:37 AM	#11 \| Link
Q of BanditZ HD Enthusiast Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 15,057	Does anyone know if there are any professional reviews floating out there for this bad boy yet? __________________ Great ISF Job by Chad B.

02-11-05, 11:50 AM	#13 \| Link
NorthJersey AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Northern NJ Posts: 2,188	does the 5910 pass 480i over HDMI ?

02-11-05, 12:01 PM	#14 \| Link
apesma Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 90	We know about the video quality, lets hear about the audio quality through the analog connections especially cds.

02-11-05, 12:06 PM	#15 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
Kris Deering Avid HD Watcher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Port Orchard, WA Posts: 5,323 Classified Rating: 100% (6)	The 5910 does not pass 480i over HDMI and never will. It would require a hardware and software upgrade according to Denon. Plus, why would you even want to bypass the Realta scaling?? If you are using the HDMI or DVI setting go into the user memory settings and set the contrast level to -2. This is the only way to get proper above white levels. Make sure HDMI output is set to "Normal" and IRE is set to 0 as before. In the user memory settings I recommend setting the detail enhancer to 1 and the NR filter to 1 as well. With my tests this resulted in the best images. All other settings should be left in their default settings (with the exception of contrast to -2 ONLY IF USING DVI or HDMI!!!). Use your display controls for any tweaks you need to do after that point. If you go source direct you do not get bass management but you still get time alignment and channel level control. This does keep the DSD signal from being converted to PCM. __________________ Contributing Writer Home Theater Magazine "If it isn't in HD, I'm not buying it"

02-11-05, 12:18 PM	#17 \| Link
apesma Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 90	Thanks Kris How many steps above the 2900 would the audio be?

02-11-05, 12:31 PM	#18 \| Link
apesma Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 90	I'd like to see an audio comparison between the 5910 and the Mccormack UDP as they're about the same price. We know the video is better in the 5910 but audio is my major concern.

02-11-05, 01:46 PM	#20 \| Link
Kris Deering Avid HD Watcher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Port Orchard, WA Posts: 5,323 Classified Rating: 100% (6)	DoctorO If your pre-pro is doing adjustments then you probably aren't hearing as much of the player. Adjustments usually require a A to D then D to A conversion. You should be comparing with a pure pass through and do any tweaking in the Denon. I am trying to arrange to get the UDP right now. Haven't heard back on it yet. Right now I have the Teac Esoteric UX-1 which is about $13K. I will be doing a little bit of comparing on the audio front with them. __________________ Contributing Writer Home Theater Magazine "If it isn't in HD, I'm not buying it"

02-11-05, 02:40 PM	#23 \| Link
Kris Deering Avid HD Watcher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Port Orchard, WA Posts: 5,323 Classified Rating: 100% (6)	Well the Iscan HD+ doesn't support 480i in via DVI yet so that may not be a huge benefit. But supposedly this feature is in the works. When it does come through that would probably be the preferred method IF your plasma lets you input a native resolution signal (not all do). If it doesn't then the 5910 does have performance benefits over the Pioneer but I don't know how much your display may limit their appearance. __________________ Contributing Writer Home Theater Magazine "If it isn't in HD, I'm not buying it"

02-11-05, 03:36 PM	#24 \| Link
DreamCatcher AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 1,847	Thanks for the reply Kris, I don't understand why my display would "limit their appearance"? You may well be right about the display not accepting a native resolution. I know it won't accept 480i. 480p, 720p, 1080i yes, but not 480i.... dc __________________ Live Long & Prosper

02-11-05, 04:19 PM	#25 \| Link
Evangelo2 For President Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: LI, NY Posts: 1,671 Classified Rating: 100% (4)	How is the 5910's performance over component cable? I know it can't upconvert over component. I have an older Sony Progressive DVD Player and was looking to upgrade and am thinking the 5910 can last me forever, even when I get a new television in a few years with hdmi and\or dvi input. Any thoughts on doing this? Am I better off just saving my money and seeing whats out in about 2 years when im ready to buy a new television? Thanks. -Evangelo2 __________________ My Homepage - Download Plasma Break In DVD & Next Gen Cover Art Here! My Movie Collection XBox LiveID: Evangelo2

02-11-05, 04:27 PM	#26 \| Link
Kris Deering Avid HD Watcher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Port Orchard, WA Posts: 5,323 Classified Rating: 100% (6)	Dreamcatcher It would limit the appearance slightly because the plasma will have to rescale and Panasonic's internal scalers are poor at best. They tend to overly soften the image. __________________ Contributing Writer Home Theater Magazine "If it isn't in HD, I'm not buying it"

02-12-05, 10:43 AM	#27 \| Link
DoctorO Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 430	We watched a short on the 5910 last night (not calibrated yet). The family's response was: What is that green light? The big round green power button light. Unfortunately, our player sits beneath our display. So, it is pretty distracting. My wife thought it looked like the cigarette lighter in our truck! Who was the fool who picked GREEN?! And who designed it to stay on when the rest of the front panel is dimmed? We may end up moving the player...

02-12-05, 11:41 AM	#28 \| Link
zeropoint Illusory Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK/US Posts: 259	Does the green power-button light dim with the display? Green makes sense for ON, albeit muted, but I thought blue was the new LED colour. How hard is it for manufacturers to consult the customer base, at least regarding some things, such as aesthetics?