NEW Firewire recording nightmare - anyone else experience this?

[Matt_Stevens]

OK folks. I live in CT and have TeleMedia, an Adelphia company. The cable box is the SA3250HD (two of them) with Firewire activated, using SARA 1.56.4.1 software. I have two JVC 40000U's and three Mitsubishi 2000U's, so right off the bat you should know the problem occurs on all of my decks.

For three weeks every single recording I make is ruined by almost constant glitches where during playback the signal drops out, the deck loses sync and drops from HS to STD and then I must wait 20 to 60 seconds for the signal to come back (when it does it switches back to HS). On rare occasion it happens only once or twice per recording. Normally it's about 5 to 6o times per her our.

Watching a live program I do not see problems. It is only after recording something that I see a problem during actual playback.

I have some HD material from online that proves my theory of the decks simply dropping to STD mode because the bit rate goes that low. SHREK 2 and SAVING PRIVATE RYAN are two flicks that are available in HD and the bit rates are fairly low. So low that when recording, the decks record in STD mode. However, there are points where the bit rates for both films go up and the decks will switch to HS while recording. At those times I have the same 20 to 60 second glitches I see via TeleMedia's Firewire.

Important: This issue came up last year and lasted for two weeks, but was fixed. So for almost one year this has not been a problem, except for one brief time and right now.

TeleMedia's engineers are trying to blame the JVC deck. They have a 40K and can repeat the problem and claim it is a flaw in the 40K. That is complete and utter BS as far as I am concerned because ALL D-VHS decks on the market do exactly the same thing.

So what to do? My firewire is crippled at the moment. It is completely and utterly useless at a cost of $80 a month.

[seldenpat]

Matt,

I noticed that when recording between my 40k's I had similar drop outs. To solve this, I forced the recording speed to HS, vs. the Auto, which my 40k's default to.

I don't know if this will help you.

Patrick

[JohnnyG]

I have some HD material from online that proves my theory of the decks simply dropping to STD mode because the bit rate goes that low.

That can't be the reason. It should not be bit-rate that regulates what mode it records in, but rather the MPEG2 profile. SD uses MPEG2 "Main Profile at Main Level" (MP@ML) and HD uses "Main Profile at High-Level" (MP@HL). The deck should not be deciding which mode to record in. If it is, than that's one heck of a design mistake!

[pete4]

I would also follow Seldenpat advice and force recording in HS mode. I must say I have never encountered anything similar and since the problem shows up on different decks I would assume the problem is with signal coming in and try to call signal provider albeit I wouldn't expect much out of it.

[wiz]

Matt, I have Mediacom and have the same problem occasionally, but usually not on all stations. It always comes back to the cable head. Go to the diagnostic menu of the Cable Box and check your inbound status. If you have too many correctable errors (2000+) that can cause the occassional glitch ( 3 or 4 times a movies). If the 5 second uncorrectable errors happen at all you will not be able to record or watch via 1394. I have the MOTO 6200 and have had times when the errors would be 10000 for the correctable and 5 to 50 for unccorectable errors. When this happens I call the cable tech I know and they have to do some fine tuning of the signal at the main office. Ussually when it gets that far out of whack there will be minor pixalization on component inputs as well. Most people use component so a minor glitch in the video isn't a problem, but for us 1394 people it's a real pain.

[Matt_Stevens]

Guys, I have never been able to force the recording into HS mode when connected to the 3250. Both the Mitsubishi and the JVC decks just go to auto and that's that. I also only record with the Mits decks since all of my JVC decks keep going to sh!t on me because of block noise. They are just in and out and in and out of JVC Service the last few months.

The JVC's are used only for playback of D-Theater tapes. When playing back stuff I have recorded I play in the Mits, Firewired to the JVC (and yes, the problem occurs no matter what deck it's played on).

Wiz, I will check that info out, thanks.

[Emaych]

Yeah, what's this business of "forcing" the HS mode? How do you do that? Over the last few days a timer recording I set has started out in STD mode and will just continue like that -- which of course means no recorded material. I never need it to be in any other speed than HS, so if there is a way that can be achieved.....

[CKNA]

Recording speed depends on data rate. Mitsubishi decks will drop into STD mode if data rate goes below 14Mbps. JVC decks deal with it better as they are set to drop to STD speed when data rate goes below 12Mbps.
If you can't force the machines manually into HS mode there might not be much you can do about it.

What I think happened is that Telemedia started reencoding some of your HD channels and do rate shaping. This throws out any null packets and data rate in this case will drop below 14Mbps or 12Mbps often.

[Matt_Stevens]

So basically, recording with the Mits decks is a no-go because the data rates will always be hovering around 14mb/ps. That means I will have to record with the 40K's.

Why is that a problem? Because they are pieces of sh!t!!!! I have two 40K's and both are junk right now. They are in and out and in and out of service, never lasting more than a few weeks. My 30K's are complete toast and out of warranty, so using them is not a possibility.

I use my JVC's for D-Theater and as decoders hooked up to the Mits decks and that is it. Even then, they don't last. Play a few tapes and BAM, they fall apart.

I am beginning to hate hate HATE this hobby.

[wiz]

I still think it's in your inbound cable error rate. If you didn't have this problem before, or only once that fixed itself, I doubt if its anything else. When I have this problem it seems that the cable company has a hard time here keeping the 256 QAM in "tune" for HD here, high error counts on occations. I have never had a problem with Starz HD here because it's 64 QAM HD and the error counts are always 0000. I call the guy I know at the Cable Co and within a few days the error counts are back to 0000 for the 256 QAM. But they always seem to "drift" out over time, every 6 months or so. I don't understand how, it just does. I have an integrated Mits HDTV and only have a problem with firewire viewing when the errors are high. I doubt if there's any big difference on Data rates on the DVHS and the the TVs 1394 veiwing. Also try a "hit" with the Cable box from the cable co, it could be an upload was incomplete or an incorrect software update. Also it could be an instalation up the path causing your problems with interferance. In short I seriously doubt if its anything your doing or your equipment but cable itself. Its too bad they are the only choice for recording, that won't cost an arm and a leg only to become useless when someone changes thier minds, (ie Dish and DTV switching to MPEG4 making the 169time and others "doorstops" in time).

[wiz]

Matt, also I have a JVC30k and it won't except errors either. Just like the Mits TV, I get vidio and audio dropouts recording. It is most noticeable when I watch the TV via component from the cable box and record the same program via 1394 from the cable box. If there's a very minor pixalization on component there will be a complete dropout recording at the same point in the movie. Like I said this never happens if the errors are 0000.

[Phototone]

Originally Posted by Emaych

Yeah, what's this business of "forcing" the HS mode? How do you do that? Over the last few days a timer recording I set has started out in STD mode and will just continue like that -- which of course means no recorded material. I never need it to be in any other speed than HS, so if there is a way that can be achieved.....

When you insert a fresh tape cassette the recorder will default to "Auto" speed. On the remote control there is a button labeled "rec speed". By pushing this button you can toggle between all the available speeds for the type of signal input the recorder is hooked up to. For HD, these choices are HS and Auto. Just toggle the speed selection to HS. It shows on the display on the front of the recorder, as well as the On Screen Display. It will stay on HS as long as that cassette remains in the recorder. You have to do this for each new cassette you insert into the recorder.
This information is for the JVC decks.

[Gary Murrell]

Matt are you saying that you can't get the Auto speed changed to HS on the deck's ??(like Photo just explained above me), I also personally select HS for each tape I record on, no auto stuff

if you can't do that then I would say it is a software problem on those cable box's, ideally D-VHS decks need a constant null filled 19.392 Mbps stream, all my recording from PC is done with Null filled streams, the 169time acts the same, it creates null filled streams
all this means the bitrate never changes so no problems like yours, of course this doesn't apply to you as you are using 5C cable

-Gary

[madpoet]

Yep, the infamous low bitrate problem. I remember when you had this last year Matt. Get a 5u, set it to HS mode, and live with it I guess .

[Gary Murrell]

Yes the 5u is a total different breed from the 30/40k's, I have owned 4 of them over the years and wish I wouldn't have sold a few of them

-Gary

[POWERFUL]

Gary get ahold of me in a few days, and PM me then I'm going out of town for a few due to the Nor'eastern we are to receive and when I come back I might have a 30K. I'm meeting someone who is getting a new deck: the 100U I think? anyway he loves to give me the old stuff and last time we talked he was saying that is 30K was starting to take up too much room on his HT rack. I'd be willing to make a deal with you if you want it.

[CKNA]

This is an old thread from a year ago. Matt is all set.

[Gary Murrell]

WTF, Yeah I think I just realized that , I saw the 2 in the date and went to town

-Gary

[Matt_Stevens]

LOL! Yes, this was from a year ago. And yes, the SA3250HD boxes are absolute sh!t and do not send out a 19mbps stream. The streams are all over the map, which is why I have this problem. and why my Mits decks can never ever be used for recording HD. I have to use the JVC's in forced HS mode. My Mits decks are used to play back via Firewire to a 40K decoder.

[Bear5k]

To resurrect a nearly dead thread:

With my 8300HDs now having its firewire ports active, I am getting these same audio dropouts with my JVC 30K when it swaps between HS and Standard modes. However, I cannot find the "rec speed" button on my remote. I have something labeled "SP/EP", but this does not actually take the JVC out of auto mode.

Any thoughts?

Bill

[gridleak]

Depends on the tape mode. If you are in analog mode (SVHS, VHS) then the speed button switches between "SP/EP". If you're in DVHS mode the same button switches between "HS/STD/LS3/Auto".

If you put in an analog tape the default is analog and you have to manual change to DVHS.

[Marc Alexander]

Originally Posted by Bear5k

To resurrect a nearly dead thread:

With my 8300HDs now having its firewire ports active, I am getting these same audio dropouts with my JVC 30K when it swaps between HS and Standard modes. However, I cannot find the "rec speed" button on my remote. I have something labeled "SP/EP", but this does not actually take the JVC out of auto mode.

Any thoughts?

Bill

JVC 30k doesn't allow you to take it out of AUTO mode. Only the 40k and 5U allow this.

[comment added for reference for those finding this thread via the search...like I did]