JVC neutral density filter mod

[Kid Red]

Hey all,
Ever since Viper777 tried this mod first, unsuccessfully, I been itching to try. So I have been able to do it, and wanted to share my experiences.

Viper777 preformed this mod successfully, to a point, then moved the filter to another location that failed. The location is right before the last obtainable lens. There's the light bulb that attaches in front of a red lens (to cancel the blue light) which reflects off an angled mirror thru the last lens which is a small tile squared pattern lens. The thing was Viper777 was getting his filter bowed in this small area and ended up with an inconstant image. So last night I played around.

It's in this final area that I performed my mod. The area is small and so is the access to it. The trick was not only to get it the right size (sorry, i did not measure mine) but that way you seated the filter. So below I'll step you thru the process. You'll need .2 or .3. Viper777 tried both and concluded the .2 would have been better, however, I had a sheet of .3 so it was easier to play with if I messed up cutting the filter.

-.3 or .2 ND gel filter roughly 3"x3"
- decent pair of tweezers, a pair with somewhat pointed rather then blunt ends-tiny - - flat head screwdriver for help in small access area
- flashlight (may help)
- scissors

Once you get the tv turned around, take out all 15 odd screws and the 4-5 plugs.
Slide the lightengine out and put it on the floor.
Unscrew 4 screws above the light housing and move to the side.
You'll see the small access opening. Place filter inside there
Now, right in front of the tile patterned lens, you'll see flanking plastic rails of sorts. Those are the perfect for holding the filter in place, close to the lens so there is no polarization. So, you may have to put the filter in, see how it fits, pull it out, trim it a few times, etc.
Now, you'll aslo notice a small vertical plastic piece in the center at the top of the tiled lens. You'll need to cut the filter short enough height wise so that it clears under that piece.

It took me quite a few attempts and trimmings before I got it in there. But, once in, it's snug, nearly flush and hopefully will not have an issue with heat.

Now I would like to see what the .2 would do, I'd say I'm getting about a 10%-15% black level improvement. You'll have to turn picture up a little bit to take the edge off the filter. But it works, and looks good. Below are a few pics of the process-

[Kid Red]

Now, I tried to take some photos with flash off of HD channels, most came out blurry. But Underworld was on and looked very good in a completely dark room. I'll try and get some better pics if someone wants to see more.

The first pic should be SD of Girl next Door. Their Tuxes looked very nice even though it's SD. The second one is Underworld, the only one that wasn't too blurry.

[Kid Red]

I was just thinking over Viper777's original experience and finally realized what he meant on one part. There is the actual projection lens, it's in the second pic, that is pretty big, 6"x6" maybe. That lens and the light engine, just slide into the back of the set. It may be what Viper777 tried, but you may be able to simply lay a filter big enough down on the lens and slide the light engine back in. That would be so freaking simple and easy. I may do it again to see if that's the case, because that would be ideal for nearly anyone to try. He did mention buckling, I thought he meant in the area that I did my mod at. If the heat isn't an issue, my mod tho difficult, would be fine. However, if this projection lens location is doable, that would be so much easier.

[Zues]

Hey kidred, just curious how is bright scenes with the mod?

[videobruce]

I think he is trying to upstage me on the internal pics of this set.

The closeup where you pointed to the small opening, that is where you placed the filter? It just slid in?
This is in the light path from the lamp or the output of the whole assembly?

[Kid Red]

Zues- Bright scenes are fine, I just went over with Avia and there weren't too many changes. I think color was raised some, but the rest were with a notch or two.

video- Yea, that small opening sits between a mirror and a tiled lens. I put my filter in the grooves flanking that tiled mirror. However, you remember taking the light engine out? That black flat metal peice that sits above the projector lens? That would be another possible and easier location. To just slide a bigger filter either on top of that, or under it on top of the projector lens. You'd have to get a bigger filter, either in a big sheet, or bigger piece. I watched HellBoy last night. I'd say blacks are now a very dark grey. Not absolutely black, but not just dark grey, they are very dark grey almost black.

I think that's what Viper meant when he thinks the .2 would be perfect. That would possibly give you absolute (or damn near it) blacks.

[videobruce]

But, is this before or after the D-ILA chips?

[Kid Red]

Ah, dunno. Where is the chip(s)?

There are two options-

1) Where I went, inside the light engine, in the photo, thru the small access opening I slid in a filter 2"x2" maybe in front of a tiled lens. very tedious work.

2)I have not done this, but when you open the back, (first photo) you'll see a black piece above the light engine that attaches to the cabinet. It is just a seal of sorts, it maybe keeps the projector in place. It's a flat square with a circle cut out (IIRC) So the filter could go either above this piece, or below it resting on top of the projector lens itself.

I will probably try the 2nd option as it would be easier to mess with, few screws, quicker, and there would be next to zero heat issues I'm sure. But, you'd need to get the .2 filter at least 8x10 to cut from. maybe get a .2 and a .3 , like $15 each if you look around so you can choose which you prefer.

[DLPDAVE]

You guys have some nads to be taking apart your televisions that you paid in the ballpark of $2000-$3000 dollars for. Sheez, I haven't even opened the box on mine yet!

[Zues]

Originally Posted by Kid Red

I think that's what Viper meant when he thinks the .2 would be perfect. That would possibly give you absolute (or damn near it) blacks.

I thought the .2 filter allowed 60 percent of light, .3=50percent, .4=40percent.

[videobruce]

This seems to be the best diagram I have on the light path.
Just where was the filter put?

Next, has anyone considered a 'glass' filter instead of a gel?

[Kid Red]

video- Bottom right hand corner. See where that big arrow is, the bulb? See how a few inches it hits that corner and shoots to the left? That corner has the mirror I mention. To the left of the mirror, on that diagram, is the tiled lens before going down that long pathway. The tiled lens is where I put my filter.

However, I would seriously try the 2nd location I mention as it involves much less work. Viper777 mentioned a glass filter was our only option, but he never placed the filter where I did. That's why I started this thread because AFAIK, this was the first successfully filter mod on the JVC. No need for a glass filter if the cheaper gel will work.

[Kid Red]

Originally Posted by Zues

I thought the .2 filter allowed 60 percent of light, .3=50percent, .4=40percent.

Wouldn't it be .2 allows 20%, .3 allows .30% .4 aloows 40% and so on? Seems like they would follow an obvious pattern.

[Bluescale]

Originally Posted by Kid Red

Wouldn't it be .2 allows 20%, .3 allows .30% .4 aloows 40% and so on? Seems like they would follow an obvious pattern.

No. It is counterintuitive, but Zeus is correct.

[Bluescale]

Originally Posted by Kid Red

I was just thinking over Viper777's original experience and finally realized what he meant on one part. There is the actual projection lens, it's in the second pic, that is pretty big, 6"x6" maybe. That lens and the light engine, just slide into the back of the set. It may be what Viper777 tried, but you may be able to simply lay a filter big enough down on the lens and slide the light engine back in. That would be so freaking simple and easy. I may do it again to see if that's the case, because that would be ideal for nearly anyone to try. He did mention buckling, I thought he meant in the area that I did my mod at. If the heat isn't an issue, my mod tho difficult, would be fine. However, if this projection lens location is doable, that would be so much easier.

I believe that is where he tried. If I remember correctly, he said ti was *very* simple, but the buckling was problematic.

[videobruce]

Originally Posted by Bluescale

I believe that is where he tried. If I remember correctly, he said ti was *very* simple, but the buckling was problematic.

That's why wouldn't want to use anyting other than a GLASS lens filter! I would not feel confortable with a piece of 'plastic' there.
There are thinner lens filters available is thickness is a issue.

[Kid Red]

video- I used gel and have absolutely zero issues. Viper777 was trying it in a different location. Additionally, glass would be the only way to use the filter in front of the bulb which was his first attempt when the gel filter melted. Mine has been fine so far and sometimes I'm amazed at my very deep blacks. Excellent mod, I'm waiting for others to try it.

[Kid Red]

Originally Posted by Bluescale

No. It is counterintuitive, but Zeus is correct.

That doesn't make sense to me because I have both .3 and .2 and the .2 is noticeably darker.

[videobruce]

Then the 'gel' filter is AFTER the image sensors, NOT before?

[Kid Red]

Originally Posted by videobruce

Then the 'gel' filter is AFTER the image sensors, NOT before?

K, I think there's some confusion so I'll try to clarify.

Where I have mine installed-
1) 5 inches and a right turn away from the bulb. It's shown in the photos above. There's a little space between the changeable light bulb, a mirror and a tiled lens. All of these are no bigger then 3" and are near the bulb.

Second option that Viper777 mentioned-
1) This is near the optical lens, the final piece before the cabinet. There is a flat metal plate that slides between the lens and the cabinet. It's the easiest place to do a filter mod (I haven't tried this spot yet) but buckling may be an obstacle to overcome. I may try this one just to figure out how.

I used a .3 ND filter cut from a massive 18"x24" or so sheet. I have a .2 3"x3" square (that is darker then the .3) that I have not used. Viper thought the .2 was darker and therefore a better resulting picture. I may agree, all I know is the .3 makes a nice difference, a very nice black is produced.

Speaking of, I wonder where Viper777 has been, I'd love to let him know i found a possible solution.

[videobruce]

Then the filter is BEFORE the image devices after the lamp where it should.
I can't imagine if the flwxible gel filter was AFTER the device how it couldn't affect the image?

Now, it there room for a thin glass filter to go there instead of this gel version?

[Kid Red]

video- it's AFTER the bulb, so the incoming light is affected. I guess my approach dampens the light source, rather then applying a filter to the picture. I has misunderstood Viper's original method which is why I put my filter where I did. It works, I guess that's the most important, though I remain convinced that I do indeed wish to try applying the filter to the final projector area.

Now, it there room for a thin glass filter to go there instead of this gel version?

When you this, do you mean where I have mine or where Viper did his above the projector? If above the projector, I'll try to explain what you'd be dealing with.

The projector is attached to the light engine as you know, and slides in very closely, under a cut out in the cabinet. There is a black plate the slides between the projector and the cabinet, and screws into the cabinet. I think the plate keeps the projector still, or something similar. Now, I don't think there is room, above this plate is it slides cheek to cheek against the cabinet. There may be room underneath, but you have to deal with the projector sliding into place. I may be wrong on a few of the details, I'm recalling this from memory. I'll have to play around with this mod again and look at the second location in front of the projector. Glass may be too thick, it's hard to say without it all open sitting in front of me.

[videobruce]

it's AFTER the bulb, so the incoming light is affected. I guess my approach dampens the light source, rather then applying a filter to the picture

Yes, that's what I said. I wouldn't consider anywhere else.

When you this, do you mean where I have mine or where Viper did his above the projector?

Where you put yours.

[Kid Red]

Originally Posted by videobruce

Yes, that's what I said. I wouldn't consider anywhere else.Where you put yours.

Well, it's after the bulb but before the projector. Viper's spot puts it after the projector.

No, it's too small for glass. The opening is smaller then the filter, so it has to gel so that you can bend it slightly to get it inside the small oval-ish opening.

[TigerAspect]

Originally Posted by Kid Red

Wouldn't it be .2 allows 20%, .3 allows .30% .4 aloows 40% and so on? Seems like they would follow an obvious pattern.

This link should answer that:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/su.../neutral.shtml

[Kid Red]

Originally Posted by TigerAspect

This link should answer that:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/su.../neutral.shtml

I was right tho, the smaller the number means the greater the light blockage. So a .2 would block more light then a .3. Thanks for the link and clearing that up.

[lipcrkr]

OK, can i ask he stupidest question known to mankind? If you guys are spending just a few bucks on these filters, installing them, and supposedly increasing the black levels by a pretty good percentage, why the hell isn't Samsung, Sony, Toshiba etc. doing this? If this is all it takes why wouldn't something so relatively easy to do be done by these companies? Don't they want to sell more TV's? You mean to tell me people at Samsung couldn't walk to the camera store, buy a few thousand of these filters, then place them inside before shipping? Sheeesh.

[Bitwize]

Kid Red,
actually you have it backwards. a higher number, such as 0.6, would only allow 25% light to pass through. a 0.3 ND filter only allows 50%.

[videobruce]

lipcrkr; shhhhhh.............
don't tell them that, then all these filter companies won't sell anymore ND filters!

I would assume the memtality is, the brightest set on the floor wins! And the prize has to go to JVC.
Probably the number one complaint of RPTV' s (and most TV's) from joe average was they aren't bright enough to use in your typical California sunroom (plenty of windows, white everything; walls, ceiling etc.).
Well now they are. Of course if you want to use them in a room for proper TV viewing (e.g.; home theater), forget it!

[TigerAspect]

Originally Posted by lipcrkr

OK, can i ask he stupidest question known to mankind? If you guys are spending just a few bucks on these filters, installing them, and supposedly increasing the black levels by a pretty good percentage, why the hell isn't Samsung, Sony, Toshiba etc. doing this? If this is all it takes why wouldn't something so relatively easy to do be done by these companies? Don't they want to sell more TV's? You mean to tell me people at Samsung couldn't walk to the camera store, buy a few thousand of these filters, then place them inside before shipping? Sheeesh.

I agree with you. The cost factor shouldn't come into this because of such a marked improvement in the PQ. This technology has suddenly become very competitive now, and they should be looking for an edge over the other guys. In every morning meeting they should discuss what was said in AVS Forums the night before, if they want to keep up on the pulse of things. There are very knowledgeable people here.

-A-