Listening pleasure: Pioneer SE-DIR1000C Dolby Headphone

[DSperber]

First, I mention that I do not have a "real" surround sound system supporting my 34XBR960 (nor my Sampo 34" before the Sony). I've never had quite the room space for what was needed. So ever since 2001 I've been listening only to conventional L/R stereo to go along with watching HDTV... either through real speakers on either side of the HDTV, or through my high-end Stax Omega headphones (1995 pricy vintage, not recent VERY pricy Omega-II) and Stax SRM-T1S tube amp (VERY pricy, but not nearly what current version costs).

Truth be told, my L/R stereo source is first fed through a DBX 14/10 Computerized Equalizer/Analyzer (we're talking 80's-vintage magic, that they don't make anymore) for my tone control, and then on to the SRM-T1S. This makes listening through my Stax Omega headphones an absolute joy, even if it is only 2-channel stereo (at least until now).

I will say this has been "acceptable", but not what I really wanted. Given the proper room situation (and living in a private home rather than apartment/condo) I would have built a surround system. Until now, that was not to be, much to my frustration.

However now I share a recent (well, it's really several years old) breakthrough discovery: Dolby Headphone encoding technology!

This process takes various standard Dolby/DTS digital multi-track input formats and re-encodes it (somehow injecting "spatial cues") to produce a 2-track L/R output intended for any pair of headphones. The result, when listened to through ordinary headphones, supposedly closely approximates the psychoacoustic environment of a true DD5.1 external speaker arrangement... but through any pair of ordinary headphones.


Apparently, this technology was invented in Australia back in 2000 and was licensed by Dolby, who now licenses it as "Dolby Headphone"... but with a seemingly very limited public face. For example, I know it's available in some PC-based media players (e.g. CinePlayer Surround 1.5 and WinDVD Platinum 6), and it also was packaged on some receivers (one from Denon, I forget the model). Support is through the headphone jack on either the sound card, computer speakers, or receiver.

None of this was that applicable to my needs, however. I didn't have that Denon receiver (else I'd probably already have a real surround sound setup!), and I wasn't going to use my PC to watch HDTV. I wanted something a bit more practical and specially suited for my special situation, such as a "standalone Dolby Headphone" encoder box which could be fed by digital optical audio cable from my HDTV-adjacent source devices (JVC 40K and DT100U, DCT6412, DVD). And ideally, I would be able to connect my Stax amp/headphones to listen in top-quality to the Dolby Headphone output.

Enter the magic answer: Pioneer SE-DIR1000C Digital Cordless Surround Headphone. For some strange reason it's not available in America, but it can be purchased from a retailer in Osaka Japan ($439) and shipped here (for $7.50), including a free US-to-Japanese (120V to 100V) AC power transformer. Mine took 7 days from order to delivery.

Pioneer SE-DIR1000C Dolby Digital Headphones

Note: I already had the component video and L/R audio of all of my HDTV sources going through a Zektor HDS4 switch (as well as being firewire-connected to the XBR960). I've now added a Toslink optical audio connection from each of these devices to the Zektor inputs (which supports both Toslink and coax for digital audio). The Toslink output from the Zektor is now connected to the Toslink input of the Pioneer DIR1000C. Thus when selecting input via the Zektor, I'm also using the switch to select which digital audio source is to feed the DIR1000C to produce Dolby Headphone output. Even if I choose to watch the video on the XBR960 via firewire, selecting the corresponding input at the same time on the Zektor gets the proper digital audio source routed to the DIR1000C.


Now, in addition to the electronics the product includes an excellent sounding pair of wireless RF headphones (model SE-DIR1000), which runs off of two rechargeable AA-size batteries, which I'm guessing are lithium ion although I don't know for sure since the user manual is all in Japanese (very amusing).

The packaging is primarily English, as are all of the light and button captions on the unit itself (so you'd think this product was intended for the English-speaking world)... but the instructions are entirely in Japanese, with an occasional English word thrown in. But this turns out to not really be a problem, as the unit is very simple and intuitive to set up and use... not in small part due to the English captions on everything that's hardware.

The headphones have a small volume control dial near one ear pad, and a "charge" connector on the other ear pad. The "charge" cable goes to the back of the base unit and can be kept connected while listening (although it's really pretty short for ordinary use, unless you're sitting next to the base unit). I chose to simply charge the batteries (perhaps 6 hours, after which the "charge" light on the unit went off suggesting the process was finished, although this is really nothing more than a timer-based turnoff such as is done with cell phone chargers).

The user manual has a graphic which shows a usable distance for the headphones of perhaps 10 meters from the base unit (which has the wireless RF transmitter built in). Sound quality is excellent, but I thought the bass was just a little light for my taste. Even at maximum volume (from the amp that's built into the headphones) I wanted a bit more. Unfortunately there is no bass/treble tone control, so all you listen to is exactly what is on the original multi-track source encoded to Dolby Headphone. May be purist, but not sufficient for me.

What was truly amazing about these headphones, however, was that they were ABSOLUTELY SILENT except if they're on your head! In other words, they're perfect for "bed use" late at night in order not to bother your better half. I mean absolutely silent, even when playing sound and the headphones are on the floor... you can't hear it from the outside. Only when you put it on your head can you hear its great sound output from the inside of the ear pads. Quite remarkable.


Now for the really good news: the base unit itself, and its electronics! The unit also provides a 1/4" phono jack, so that you can plug in your own external wired headphones as an alternative to the wireless phones provided. Plugging in the wired phones does not disable the wireless transmitter, so you can listen to both at the same time. In fact you can even buy additional DIR-1000 wireless headphones if you want, and they can all be used simultaneously.

In support of the 1/4" phono jack there is a "level" control, for the output level provided by the amp builti into the base unit to the wired headphones plugged into this headphone jack. I tried my Sony MDR-V900 headphones first, and was quite disappointed. I thought these were good headphones (and they are), but they didn't sound very good at all. Much worse than the DIR-1000 wireless phones. The problem, I believe, is that they're not very efficient and need more power than the Pioneer base unit amp puts out. Perhaps if you have a more efficient set of wired headphones they might sound better, but in my case I would definitely not use the MDR-V900. I would simply stick with the DIR-1000 wireless.


Finally, I tried my ultimate configuration. I connected the 1/4" phone jack from the base unit to the L/R line input of my DBX 14/10 EQ, which then goes on to the Stax SRM-T1S amp. At first I was concerned about overloading, since I was feeding an amplified variable signal to the line-level input of the DBX/Stax. But it turns out the output level of the Pioneer base unit amp is really quite low... something I already knew from my MDR-V900 experiment. Turns out, even at maximum output the amp is putting out what is essentially line-level voltage! And DIGITALLY CLEAN! Pristine! Amazing! For an analog amplifier, this one is really superb.

In other words, with the base unit level set at maximum output I also had the DBX EQ setting and SRM-T1S amp level set just where I've always had them even when being fed previously from true L/R line-level sources. And there was no overload at all, and there was also perfect quality sound. No analog artifacts of any kind whatsoever.

Well, this was just terrific! No analog noise, no double-amplifier issues, just perfect perfect sound... and in Dolby Headphone, giving me what I'd always really wanted, which was surround sound from a digital multi-track source with the absolute magic and clarity and pinpoint detail of my Stax Omega headphones.

So my early fears about the lack of a line-level output on the Pioneer base unit were unfounded. Turns out amplified headphone jack is seemingly identical to line-level when the level is turned up to maximum. WONDERFUL!

And the specs of the unit itself are great: frequency response: 10 - 24,000Hz. While the wireless headphones might not respond this well, going through my wired DBX/Stax sure sounds fantastic. I watched a baseball game tonight on ESPNHD in DD5.1, and was flabbergasted at what I'd been missing all these years. I watched "The Last Waltz" DVD and thought I was in the theater. I watched "The Eagles Farewell 1 Concert" on D-VHS and got chills.

REMARKABLE! Of course my DBX/Stax is part of this to be sure. You should all be so lucky.


The Pioneer base unit supports the three Dolby Headphone listening configurations (DH1, DH2 and DH3) as well as off. Off means ordinary 2-channel L/R stereo. DH1: Room reverberation in a defined space. DH2: Moderate reverberation in a general listening room. DH3: Small-scale cinema. These settings are available with a button on the front. Listening with DH1 is "normal", sounding like an ordinary home closed room sound environment, very intimate, precise and quiet. That's what I use.

The unit also has a L/R line-input on the back (fed through its amp to the headphone jack or transmitted wirelessly to the DIR-1000 wireless headphones), and you can choose either digital input (from the Toslink source) or analog input (from the L/R line-input) with a button on the front. There's an input level slide switch on the back which indicates "0db" or "-8db", depending on the level of the source. I'm not sure exactly which setting means what (since the instructions are in Japanese!) but I left it at the factory-provided "-8db" which seemed to be perfectly compatible when I tried my analog L/R audio sources fed from the Zektor switch. Audio quality out of the headphones in this mode was still terrific (but obviously not Dolby Headphone, since the input was not multi-track digital).

There is also a button on the front to identify the DOLBY PROLOGICII mode to use: AUTO/MOVIE/MUSIC/OFF.

When using digital input, the electronics automatically determine the type of multi-track encoding method in use (Dolby DTS, Dolby Pro-logic II, Dolby digital EX, DTS-ES) and handles it accordingly, producing Dolby Headphone output from all sources.

The various options selected and mode-in-effect indicators are represented by an attractive array of small red LED's behind a clear plastic face on the unit. Very sexy. When listening to a DD5.1 Dolby Surround source being approximated by Dolby Headphone, there are five red LED's arranged around a sixth LED (representing you, in your headphones) to show you what's being produced as if it were coming from speakers positioned like the LED's. Lesser multi-track and 2-track L/R sources display differently, but correspondingly represent graphically what you are listening to.

Also, the unit stands vertically on an oval base by default, but the base can be removed and re-fastened using screwholes on the "bottom" so that the unit can also be positioned horizontally (i.e. like a book lying on a table)... if that's what you want. In fact, the unit is pretty much the size of a book. Quite compact and attractive.

So, while the DIR-1000 wireless headphones that are provided are definitely excellent (surprisingly so), I will be using my DBX/Stax wired arrangement. And I will now be listening in Dolby Surround (or rather, Dolby Headphone) to everything... be it DVD, Comcast cable via DCT6412, or D-VHS.


I'm thrilled with the results. And I had to share my discovery. This truly is multi-track Dolby Surround via headphones (through the magic of Dolby Headphone re-encoding from the original digital optical multi-track source).

The sound has the expected digital clarity and is absolutely noise-free. I can tell from the graphic LED's on my DBX 14/10 (which all are at rest at zero) that there is zero noise, buzz, or hiss injected by either the signal processor or the multiple stages of amplification. It is completely digitally silent, until the voice/music appears.

If you've been looking for a terrific headphone-based solution to enjoying HDTV and rather loud multi-track sound late at night, when either your partner or downstairs neighbor will have none of it, you should really look into this. The Pioneer wireless headphones are 100% silent from the outside, while providing a new world of Dolby Headphone on the inside. And the option of using your own high-efficiency wired headphones or even external amp/headphones if you want... well what more could you ask for (except perhaps a DBX/Stax setup of your own)?

The US-to-Japanese AC power converter ($30 value, included for free) worked perfectly. Just plug the provided Pioneer-provided Japanese AC adapter into the US-to-Japanese converter and then plug that converter into the wall, and you're in business.

[DSperber]

I've now had opportunities to listen to some of my D-VHS HD archive recordings in Dolby Digital Headphone using my new DIR1000C/DBX/Stax setup... simply fantastic, now that I'm hearing the DD5.1!

I listened to the DiscHD 2004 Proms concert (with Anna Netrebko soprano), and was almost crying. I listened to "The Last Waltz" and "Eagles Live 1 Farewell", and thought I was there!

I've also observed that the 2-channel digital PCM audio obtained from this setup (facilitated by disabling the Dolby Headphone encoding function on the DIR1000C) is clearly superior to the analog equivalent coming out of the conventional analog red/white L/R stereo jacks of the true source devices. This digital L/R 2-channel audio sounds superior whether I'm listening through the Stax headphones or when listening to this DIR1000C-produced output fed through my true external 2.1 Altec Lansing speakers.

Still gets my 5-star recommendation, for those who need a headphone solution because of apartment/condo or spouse/partner limitations.

[Foxbat121]

FYI, Pioneer released a newer model # SE-DIR800c in US. It's cheaper, smaller and reportedly comparable to original SE-DIR1000. Check out Amps and Recivers forum with a long thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=356882 about this head phone.

[DSperber]

Originally Posted by Foxbat121

FYI, Pioneer released a newer model # SE-DIR800c in US. It's cheaper, smaller and reportedly comparable to original SE-DIR1000. Check out Amps and Recivers forum with a long thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=356882 about this head phone.

Thanks for the lead to this other thread.

I investigated the DIR800 product, but decided against it. It does not have a headphone jack and associated output amp level control, but rather only supports the provided wireless headphones. This very siginificant limitation was unacceptable to me.

The DIR1000 product has slightly better frequency response specs, has a slightly better wireless headphone included, and supports both an optional wired headphone or external amp/headphone through its headphone jack and output level control. In fact, while the DIR1000 wireless headphones sound surprisingly good, as has been reported by others they (and the DIR800 phones) have less than stellar bass response.

In fact, I will likely never use the phones. I will only use my wired DBX/Stax EQ/amp arrangement (which provides analog tone control to the Dolby Headphone output from the DIR1000) connected (wired) to the headphone jack of the DIR1000 base unit to feed my Stax Omega headphones. This also avoids IR line-of-sight issues which might be present for the Pioneer phones.

The DIR800 supports both optical digital input as well as coax digital input, which would be of value if you wanted to connect it to a coax-only digital source (e.g. from the Audigy 2 PC sound card, which does not have optical output). But in my case that was not relevant. The optical-only DIR1000 limitation is not a problem for me, since I am only going to use it connected from the optical outputs from my HDTV-adjacent sources.

I love the DIR1000. $439, but worth every penny for me... even it did not include phones. I've been listening only with DH1 but will experiment a little with DH2 which adds just a little reverb which I'm not really looking for. But maybe for the right source content it's enjoyable, as might be DH3 for concerts. I'll see.

[Jerry G]

I've been looking into DD wireless headphones. Thought about the Pioneer, but didn't like the idea of having to remove the batteries to recharge as opposed to having the battery contacts built into the headphones and recharging simply by placing the headphones on the cradle.

I've got the Sony MDR-DS4000 and Panasonic RP-WH5000 coming. I'll compare the two and see which one is better. I've heard they may be a problem with interference with a plasma, which I have. If so, I guess both will go back. Otherwise, I'll report on my evaluation next week.

[Foxbat121]

Originally Posted by DSperber

Thanks for the lead to this other thread.

I investigated the DIR800 product, but decided against it. It does not have a headphone jack and associated output amp level control, but rather only supports the provided wireless headphones. This very siginificant limitation was unacceptable to me.

Nope. I have a DIR-SE800c and it DOES have a headphone jack and level control.

[Foxbat121]

Originally Posted by Jerry G

I've been looking into DD wireless headphones. Thought about the Pioneer, but didn't like the idea of having to remove the batteries to recharge as opposed to having the battery contacts built into the headphones and recharging simply by placing the headphones on the cradle.

Pioneer actually uses regular AA regarable batteries. The ones come with the headphones are 1600mAH ones and the charger built into the base unit is just a slow charger. You can easily pick up a few 2300mAH digital camera rechargable battery and a quick charger as well. I never used the original batteries. I got a dozen or so betteries and quick charger bought from Costco for real cheap A set of battery can run more than a week. With a dozen in hand, there is no worry about running out of battery.

[DSperber]

Originally Posted by Jerry G

I've been looking into DD wireless headphones. Thought about the Pioneer, but didn't like the idea of having to remove the batteries to recharge as opposed to having the battery contacts built into the headphones and recharging simply by placing the headphones on the cradle.

I don't know where you got that idea about the DIR1000 phones. There is no need to remove the batteries to recharge, and in fact there's no device/adapter provided in which to put those batteries in order to recharge them.

Instead, there is a "charge" jack right on one of the headphone pads. That's how you're supposed to charge/re-charge the batteries... with the batteries inserted inside the headphones, not removed.

You just plug one end of the charging cable into that jack and the other end of the cable into the "charge" jack on the back of the base unit. That's it. Charging starts, and goes for 12 hours (or, presumably, whenever the AA-NiMH batteries fill up) at which time the "charging" LED turns off on the base unit. The base unit has a rack piece on the top that allows you to hang the phones on them while not in use or when charging.

If you have the base unit sitting close by to where you're sitting, you can listen this way (i.e. with the charging cable connected) and not actually run the batteries down. Otherwise, I believe the batteries are supposed to have around a 29 hour life before absolutely requiring a recharge.

I've got the Sony MDR-DS4000 and Panasonic RP-WH5000 coming. I'll compare the two and see which one is better. I've heard they may be a problem with interference with a plasma, which I have. If so, I guess both will go back. Otherwise, I'll report on my evaluation next week.

I was unaware of both of these products, but now that I've looked at their descriptions I would think that the Sony appears to be the superior of the two. But I don't know how either deals with the job of multi-track input encoding down to 2-channel out to the phones. Probably some proprietary technique, otherwise they would certainly have indicated if Dolby Headphone was the encoding technology used.

However neither gives me what I really wanted, which was the ability to use my Stax Omega analog headphones as the listening device (connected to the Stax SRM-T1S amp), feeding it from a digital multi-track audio source. Furthermore, my Stax SRM-T1S is fed from my DBX 14/10 Computerized EQ/Analyzer, so that I can first tonally adjust the analog L/R audio with a 14-band EQ. Hence my requirement that the new box, whatever it was, had to have the equivalent of a line-level output to feed the DBX.

Neither the Sony nor Panasonic provides a headphone jack (and associated amplifier, with output level control)... which is what makes the Pioneer DIR-1000C such a great device for me. I wasn't looking for another set of headphones, I was looking ideally just for a box that converted Dolby digital multi-track audio to 2-channel output which I could then feed into my DBX/Stax. I'm likely NEVER going to use the Pioneer wireless headphones, as good as they actually are. Nothing compares to the Stax Omega's and the SRM-T1S amp.

[Jerry G]

Originally Posted by DSperber

I don't know where you got that idea about the DIR1000 phones. There is no need to remove the batteries to recharge, and in fact there's no device/adapter provided in which to put those batteries in order to recharge them.

I should have been more specific. I was referring to the SE-DIR800 Pioneer headphones, which is the only DD headphones I saw on the Pioneer site. I know you got your DIR1000 overseas.

My needs are very different from yours. For those times I have to keep the volume down while I watch a movie, I wanted headphones that would simulate DD or DTS and were wireless. I'll see how the Sony and Panasonic fulfill this requirement. If they don't do a decent job, they'll go back.

[DSperber]

Originally Posted by Jerry G

I should have been more specific. I was referring to the SE-DIR800 Pioneer headphones, which is the only DD headphones I saw on the Pioneer site. I know you got your DIR1000 overseas.

Ah, now I see. The various writeups are a bit sparse, but it's now clear that there's a recharger for the batteries in the DIR800 base unit.

And, it looks like I have to correct my earlier comment that the DIR800 didn't have a headphone jack (for wired headphones) and related volume control. As I look closer at the picture and writeup, it does indeed now appear that this feature is present on the DIR800, making it certainly very competitive feature-for-feature with the DIR1000.

Do report back on your Sony and Panasonic results.

[Ken H]

Moved here from HDTV Hardware, not sure where else it should go.

[Foxbat121]

From what I read, Sony DS4000 uses Sony's own algorithm to simulate multi-channel surround sound which is not as good as Dolby Head Phone techonolgy used by Pioneer. Now Sony DS8000, from the reviews I read, is superbe. The only problem is its cost ($800).

[Jerry G]

Originally Posted by Ken H

Moved here from HDTV Hardware, not sure where else it should go.

Most of the other threads on headphones are in the amps, receivers, and processors section.

[Jerry G]

Originally Posted by Foxbat121

Pioneer actually uses regular AA regarable batteries. The ones come with the headphones are 1600mAH ones and the charger built into the base unit is just a slow charger. You can easily pick up a few 2300mAH digital camera rechargable battery and a quick charger as well. I never used the original batteries. I got a dozen or so betteries and quick charger bought from Costco for real cheap A set of battery can run more than a week. With a dozen in hand, there is no worry about running out of battery.

Thanks for the info. Since I have the Sony and Panasonic models coming, I'll give them a try. If they aren't satisfactory, they'll get returned and I'll try the Pioneer 800. The surround audio test on the DVE DVD seems like a good way to really test the accuracy of the DD headphones.

[John Mason]

Here's another long review of the Pioneer phones at a headphone site:
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showt...threadid=27532
Somewhere at that site I also commented on my purchase of them some time back from Japan, as well as in the audio hardware section here. A surround-sound test using the 5.1 test band on the Avia test DVD was fine for directionality--providing it's run in the 'largest' concert-hall (3) mode. Watching 5.1 movies this way seems to meld the audio with the screen about 8' away so the 5.1 doesn't seem to be coming from inside your head--the whole idea behind Dolby Headphones. I extended my headphone receiver section from near my 64" RPTV about 9' away, near a viewing position, using an optical cable from Radio Shack. So far the batteries are still charging, although I now usually wear the headphones with the recharging cable plugged in rather than batteries-only mode. -- John

[Jerry G]

I think this thread is better placed in the Amps, Receivers, and Processors section. Wireless DD headphones aren't really a Home Theater in a Box, but more of a processor.

I received the Panasonic RP-WH500 and Sony MDR-DS4000. The Panasonic sounded OK. I tried it first. But it only took about 10 minutes to easily decide the Sony sounded better. So, the Panasonic will go back. The Sony does sound good, but I have nothing "better" to compare it to. And now I've become intrigued with the Dolby Headphone processing of the Pioneer DIR800 and am wondering if they would sound better. I initially didn't consider it because of the need to remove the batteries for recharging. Since then, I've realized that isn't such a big deal and I'm considering ordering the Pioneer to try it. I can return the Sony without any penalty (other than shipping). But if I get the Pioneer (from OneCall), and decide I don't like it as much as the Sony, there will be a 15% restocking charge. So, I question is will the Dolby Headphone technology make a significant improvement over Sony's proprietary processing?

[Jerry G]

Ordered the Pioneer DIR800. Will have it Tuesday and compare it to the Sony. But I think this thread is largely dead and useless in this section. After the comparison, I may start a new thread in a different section.

[John Mason]

So, I question is will the Dolby Headphone technology make a significant improvement over Sony's proprietary processing?

The DH audio, outlined in detail at Dolby's site, has often been cited as better than Sony's approach. Vaguely recall reviews here a while back (audio forums) and at the headphone site I posted above. Guess it all boils down to personal taste. The experts at the headphone site often claim Sennheiser's high-end phones work best with DH. The Pioneer DH receiver has a spare jack for an extra standard headphone; haven't tried it yet. -- John

[Foxbat121]

Many PC DVD playback software have DD Headphone function. You may need the retail version not OEM version. That should give you a direct comparison between DD Headphone and Sony.

[Jerry G]

John, thanks. I'll find out tomorrow night (Tues) when I compare the Pioneer to the Sony. I have an old Sennheiser I can try, but one of the goals was to have a wireless setup, so I'll have to use the headphones that come with the base regardless. I can just imagine a long cable from the base to the headphones. My cats will be very happy to play with it, but I'll go nuts. The Sony sounded OK, but didn't have the "forward" location from the fronts that others have described with Dolby Headphone technology. I'll see if that's better with the Pioneer.

Foxbat, good suggestion, but I don't have a PC (I use a Mac).

I'll post my observations later in the week.

[DSperber]

I don't have any Sennheiser headphones to compare to, but as I mentioned earlier in this thread I tried (1) my Sony MDR-V900 plugged into the headphone jack of the DIR-SE1000C base unit, and (2) my Stax Omega headphones which plug into the matching Stax SRM-T1S amplifier, whose line-level inputs I connected to the line-level outputs of my DBX 14/10 Computerized EQ/Analyzer (for 14-band analog L/R tone control), whose line-level inputs I then connected to the headphone jack of the DIR-SE1000C base unit. In other words, using the DBX/Stax route I had a 14-band EQ in the mix as well as a second class-A tube amplifier for the headphones to boost the modest output of the Pioneer amplifier (which even at maximum level didn't seem to put out much above line-level).

I found that the headphone jack output stage did not have the amplification to drive the Sony MDR-V900 phones adequately, which surprised me a first. Perhaps they just weren't a "match". I had always thought these were excellent quality headphones when used with a Sony mini-CD player (perhaps a better "match"), which I would have thought would not have as strong an amplifier as the DIR-SE1000C base unit would likely have. But who knows?

All I know is that the performance of the apparently low-efficiency MDR-V900 phones in conjunction with the Pioneer base unit would have to be rated "not acceptable". I don't know how any Sennheiser headphones will perform, but unless they're high-efficiency I fear the wired output amplifier stage of the Pioneer base unit might be inadequate for high quality sound.

In contrast, the quality of the DBX/Stax arrangement, with the Stax SRM-T1S as a second amplifier (essentially using the Pioneer output amplifier as if it were a preamp) produces truly gorgeous sound. The Stax headphones have their own 10-ft flat ribbon cable and I also have a 5-meter Stax extension cord as well, so that with this net 26-foot connection to the SRM-T1S I can sit anywhere in the room.

In other words, the analog audio output quality of the Pioneer Dolby Headphone circuitry (preamp and amp stages) is truly superb... if a bit underpowered. But with the addition of a second dedicated high-end SRM-T1S headphone amp and super-quality Stax Omega headphones, well I've put the Pioneer headphones in the closet... likely never to be used. I have a second Stax Lambda Signature headphone for use by "visiting dignitaries", which plugs into the second "pro-only" socket on the SRM-T1S (where the first "pro-only" socket is used by my Stax Omega). I used to have a third pair of old Stax headphones that could be inserted into the "normal-only" socket of the SRM-T1S, but they're no longer in usable condition. In other words, I can provide a second glorious wired DBX/Stax Dolby Headphone experience if I need to, making the wireless Pioneer headphones truly unnecessary.

[DSperber]

Reference material arrived today: Eagle's "Hell Freezes Over" and "Farewell 1 Tour" DVD's, along with "Dido Live" and "Britney Spears Greatest Hits". This assortment of material gave me a real opportunity to experiment with Dolby Headphone DH1/DH2/DH3 as well as ProLogic-II movie vs. music.

First, I have to say that "Hell Freezes Over" was amazing... except that it wasn't in 16x9. But it brought back fond memories of that concert (I saw it at Irvine Meadows in 1994), especially the backup drummer Peter Frampton lookalike (who was a terrific musician), the additional musicians and voices as well as orchestral accompaniment, etc. And I must say, Don Felder was definitely missed (by me, anyway) in "Farewell 1 Tour". The fill-in new guy was ok, but he's not the same talented inventive guitarist that Don Felder was.

That having been said, I must say that while DH1 has seemed appropriate for normal TV watching, it was clearly wrong for these concert presentations. Everything sounded compressed into a small space, giving almost no sensation of size. Even DH2, while a marked improvement over DH1 for this content, still did not accurately reflect the distances involved. There was just too much sound information for my brain to make sense of, given the smaller virtual sound field size presented with DH1 and DH2. The spatially compressed result was unsatisfying.

It was only with DH3 that I felt I was actually there, with the sound field spread out properly and with the virtual distances between the instruments and singers and me, the listener, an accurate portrayal of what I was watching and hearing... really as if I was in the audience at the concert and yet fairly close up to the stage. It now made sense, with all of the music now allowed to "breathe naturally" in the wide open space in front of me (and audience around and behind me) which I could now appreciate. I was there.

Previously, my experiments with DH2 and especially DH3 on ordinary TV had not been good ones, with my observing negatively about the seemingly excessive and obviously artificial reverb. This was distracting and inappropriate for the content, so I felt. Well, in this Eagle's concert venue environment it did not seem like reverb at all, nor did it seem artificial. In fact, it seemed like reality and open space and fresh air, with the apparent distances between instruments and between the stage and me now all in proper perspective and content-appropriate. I could even detect that the arena for HFO was definitely smaller than much larger Rod Laver Arena for F1T. The mike placement around the audience and resulting sensations clearly came through in DH3 and clearly conveyed the two different virtual sizes of the two different places. It was wonderfully realistic with HFO being slightly more "intimate". (Actually, I think this concert was taped for an MTV audience in a relatively small auditorium in LA, as part of the warmup for the actual tour. I know that the then-new Latin-sounding "Hotel California" performance from the DVD was shown as a video on MTV around that time as part of the pre-tour publicity blitz.)

Furthermore, I can only imagine what "Hell Freezes Over" sounds like in a real home theater environment with real speakers, given what it sounded like to me in DH3 headphones. Just remarkable. What clarity! What reality!

As far as "Farewell 1 Tour", well that too demanded DH3 for maximum enjoyment and sensation of reality. DH1 and DH2 were just not right. And of course the visual splendor of modern 16x9 videotape made the experience all the more enjoyable, pretty close to the HD showing on NBC earlier this month. I must add that I did NOT like the much anticipated performance of "Lyin' Eyes" on this DVD, and in retrospect am glad they chose not to include it in the NBC show. The whole arrangement was "sedated" and disappointing, with none of the musical excitement of the original recording (or the identical sounding "Hell Freezes Over" tour performance, which sadly did not make it to the DVD). The elegant transitions and progressions of the original studio recording, as well as stunning guitar accents and vocal sparkle, was simply not present in this arrangement. Unlike with their new arrangement of "New Kid In Town" which I enjoyed, this new arrangement of "Lyin' Eyes" gets thrown back.

As for a comparison between the two DVD's, I'd say HFO actually sounded better than F1T despite being from a 1994 recording and a 1999 video. But BOTH of these should be "reference material", either for home theater (I can only wish) or for Dolby Headphones or competitive equivalent. Unless you hear them properly, you can't imagine how enjoyable they are. I even tried listening to the 2-track L/R stereo track for comparison, and just chuckled at what I'd been listening to all of these years. Needless to say, the comparison lasted but a moment and I was instantly back into DH3 and singing along happily.

What was quite remarkable about DH3 for both of these concerts is that I could clearly discern the overall size of the venue, as well as the placement of and distances between the musicians and the audience. Mike placement, multi-track sound mixing, and Dolby Headphone compression of the multi-track source obviously all contributed to the experience. Given a choice, by experiment you definitely would not want to listen in DH1 or DH2. DH3 was the clear winner.

Regarding "Dido Live", well it was simply very disappointing... both visually and sonically. However I did get to compare a DD5.1 sound track vs. DTS. I much preferred DTS, which to me appeared much more realistic (again using DH3, which sounded much better than DH1 or DH2 for this content). Is this always the case?

Furthermore, it seemed to be shot in some kind of cross between film and video (perhaps videotape transferred to film?), but I think it was film with stage lighting... sort of how the MTV Awards shows sometimes look, sort of MPEG-like being non-film but also being definitely not videotape. Anyway it did not look good and I didn't like it. The cameras were too few and much too far away, providing disappointing perspectives (unlike the Eagle's video work, which was stupendous). I'd rate the sound poor. Not recommended.

Britney? What can I say. Ordinary stereo (as best I can tell) and there was no audio setup option. However ProLogic-II "music" definitely seemed superior to "movie", probably being appropriate to the ordinary stereo sound track that seemed to be what was on the DVD. Interestingly, once "music" was selected I couldn't detect any difference in DH1, DH2 and DH3. Probably intentional and by design. But "music" definitely sounded the best, given that I was watching music videos and not a movie or concert in an arena.


So... what have I learned?

That there definitely IS a proper use for DH1, DH2 and DH3... based on content. And that there definitely IS a use for ProLogic-II "music" vs. "movie", to again provide a better (and clearly proper) listening result... again based on content.

I'm guessing that similar processor options are available with "real speakers" in a home theater environment, to be used appropriately for similarly varied subject content in order to maximize the overall listening (and viewing) experience.

But when listening through headphones (admittedly, through my DBX/Stax SRM-T1S/Omega appendage rather than just the Pioneer wireless headphones) and the Pioneer DIR-SE1000C providing Dolby Headphone output, the content should definitely drive what DHx and ProLogic-II setting is used... in order to derive maximum listening and viewing pleasure. No one particular combination of settings can be thought of as "best", except for a particular source content.

And... HFO and F1T should both be in everyone's DVD collection. No question.

[Jerry G]

I've had a few days to listen to the Pioneer SE-DIR800C. The Sony and Panasonic were returned. The Pioneer was clearly superior to the other two in it's ability to separate the multiple Dolby Digital channels. The directionality was superb. A few times, I actually found myself looking at my front speakers thinking I forgotten to turn down the speaker volume. The sound clarity is terrific.

The only thing I'm not sure about with the Pioneer is what appears to be excessive reverberation when any of the Dolby Headphone settings were invoked. DH1 has the least and DH3 has the most reverberation. No reverberation when DH is off, but then there is no multiple channel effect, at least that's the way it appears. Frankly, I'm not sure if the reverberation (or perhaps liveliness is a better word) is a more natural and realistic effect or if it's artificial. I'm used to listening from good speakers, but my living room has very few acoustically active surfaces. So maybe the apparent reverberation and liveliness of the sound from the headphones is what I should be hearing. With the Sony, I would only hear the reverberation if I turned on the "movie" or "music" setting. Other than this reverberation, which is perhaps something I need to get used to, the Pioneer system seems excellent. Anyone with the Pioneer have any thoughts on the reverberation issue?

[Foxbat121]

According to the advise from a guy from Dolby Lab, DH2 is the best mode and that's what I'm using all the time. DH3 does have too much reverb to simulate a large hall. However, all these effects are highly dependent on actual movie. Some works better with reverb. Some don't.

[Jerry G]

Originally Posted by Foxbat121

According to the advise from a guy from Dolby Lab, DH2 is the best mode and that's what I'm using all the time. DH3 does have too much reverb to simulate a large hall. However, all these effects are highly dependent on actual movie. Some works better with reverb. Some don't.

So, do you think the sound from a well encoded Dolby Digital movie sounds correct with DH1 or DH2 from the headphones, and does it sound similar to your speakers?

Thanks.

[Foxbat121]

Never tried DH3 with movies. In DH2, it sounds close to my 6.1 surround system except sound field is narrower. It can't replace a true surround system but is a very good replacement in places you can't setup multi-speaker system like bedroom.

[Jerry G]

Originally Posted by Foxbat121

Never tried DH3 with movies. In DH2, it sounds close to my 6.1 surround system except sound field is narrower. It can't replace a true surround system but is a very good replacement in places you can't setup multi-speaker system like bedroom.

OK. So what I'm hearing and interpreting as some reverberation and liveliness with the Pioneer is what you're hearing with the headphones and also from your speakers? Is that a fair statement?

Thanks.

[DSperber]

Originally Posted by Jerry G

Other than this reverberation, which is perhaps something I need to get used to, the Pioneer system seems excellent. Anyone with the Pioneer have any thoughts on the reverberation issue?

As I editorialized in my comments regarding the listening experience with the two Eagles DVD's, I don't believe there is one "best" setting that is "best" for everything. It varies, depending on the size of the sound stage being represented.

In my opinion, for typical TV shows where the distance between sound sources (and you, or the camera/listener) is minimal, DH1 seems to be the most reasonable setting. The virtual sound stage is narrow" and stereo separation is minimal. It has the least reverb effect (if you want to call it that, but I think Dolby would rather you describe it as "injection of spatial cues") of the three choices. But that has the resulting consequence of keeping the sound close around you, the listener. And you are close to the talkers or sound sources.

At the other extreme, DH3 is unusable for the above situations. It's effect is to "inject large spatial cues" (which will be interpreted as excessive reverb in a "small" setting), which is precisely what it is supposed to do when the sound situation is a concert or large enclosed venue with a large wide sound stage. As I mentioned in my comments about the two Eagles concert DVDs, listening to these in DH3 was the ONLY setting that sounded good. The others sound artificially compressed and squeezed, with a very narrow sound source in front of me even though I could clearly see singers and instruments spread all across the stage. Also, the audience around me did not seem like they were in a 15,000 seat venue in DH1 or DH2. Only in DH3 did it all come together properly... with respect to the "spatial cues". In fact, it did not sound like reverb at all. It sounded like open space with natural sounds all around, just like if you were there.

I haven't sampled a source yet where DH2 is appropriate, but I'm sure it's something where the virtual sound stage size is somewhere between intimate and Rod Laver Arena. In fact that's how it's described, as a "wet" room... perhaps a live recording in a club of a jazz band or singer, which because of the instruments and amplifiers is clearly "hotter" and "more alive" than a living room but still relatively small in space terms. Or, maybe it's good for TV shows set outdoors, like "Lost", or similar settings that are wide open and not on a small sound stage.

As far as "off", it's just that. Off. I believe this picks up just the PCM 2-channel L/R stereo program from the digital source. It is not a mix-down of the multitrack content. It's just like playing the L/R analog stereo program through your speakers, except that it's being provided digitally. So naturally there is no reverb or surround effect, other than what would be normally conveyed from ordinary old-fashioned L/R stereo and two speakers.

Again, I don't believe that DH1, DH2, or DH3 is "best". If one is selected (such as DH2) because it seems to sound acceptable in all situations, in my opinion that is a compromise that is actually causing you to lose the maximum listening enjoyment potential for 2 out of 3 cases. It has more "reverb" than DH1 and may really be inappropriate (albeit "acceptable"). And in the large concert situation, DH2 is not providing the large space illusion that DH3 would. Believe me, I did not think of the space illusion "at" the Eagles concert as reverb... it was truly just open space and sounded great.

There's no question that the three DHx settings put you at different virtual distances from the sound source. DH1 has you close up, DH2 is moderately far back (say in the audience at "Leno", maybe?), and DH3 puts you in a large stadium or concert hall. Simply choose your setting so that whatever you're listening to sounds the best... to you. That's the real luxury of headphones.

What's interesting is that you found the Pioneer/Dolby approach to be clearly superior to the Sony and Panasonic version. Also, you didn't make any comment that the volume level provided by the Pioneer headphones was too low or inadequate, suggesting that it was fine in that department. I may have to do a little more experimenting with my DIR-SE1000C headphones just to make sure I'm not overreacting.

I still am going to use my Pioneer->DBX/SRM-T1S pathway to my Stax Omega headphones as my "production" setup, because I can't live without the ability to insert a 14-band EQ as tone control for what I'm listening to... not to mention the added punch of the second amplifier feeding the worldclass Stax wired headphones.

But I'm glad to hear that your reaction to the DIR-SE800 is quite positive. I will let my nephew know, who's also in the market for exactly the same type of solution to his "spouse is sleeping when he wants to watch TV in surround sound" problem.

[Jerry G]

Originally Posted by DSperber

What's interesting is that you found the Pioneer/Dolby approach to be clearly superior to the Sony and Panasonic version. Also, you didn't make any comment that the volume level provided by the Pioneer headphones was too low or inadequate, suggesting that it was fine in that department. I may have to do a little more experimenting with my DIR-SE1000C headphones just to make sure I'm not overreacting.

I still am going to use my Pioneer->DBX/SRM-T1S pathway to my Stax Omega headphones as my "production" setup, because I can't live without the ability to insert a 14-band EQ as tone control for what I'm listening to... not to mention the added punch of the second amplifier feeding the worldclass Stax wired headphones.

But I'm glad to hear that your reaction to the DIR-SE800 is quite positive. I will let my nephew know, who's also in the market for exactly the same type of solution to his "spouse is sleeping when he wants to watch TV in surround sound" problem.

Thanks for the comments.

I haven't extensively played with the volume control on the Pioneer headphones in terms of max and min, but I certainly had no problem finding various comfortable settings depending upon how loud or soft I wanted to listen to a particular movie. So far, I've only used the Pioneer with movies. I'll try some music this weekend.

It took 10 minutes to easily determine the Sony was better than the Panasonic. It took all of one minute to determine the Pioneer was significantly better than the Sony. I literally started to pack up the Sony for return within minutes of listening to the Pioneer.

Jerry

[Foxbat121]

Originally Posted by Jerry G

It took 10 minutes to easily determine the Sony was better than the Panasonic. It took all of one minute to determine the Pioneer was significantly better than the Sony. I literally started to pack up the Sony for return within minutes of listening to the Pioneer.

Jerry

LoL! Glad you liked Pioneer. However, recently I read a review (actually head to head comparison to SE-DIR800c) about Sony's top of the line surround headphone (forgot the exact model number). And that Sony beats Pioneer in every category except for the price ($800 to 1000) according to the reviewer. There is no doubt Pioneer is still the best in its price range and I liked it very much.