Denon DVD-1920

Pete · 07-08-05, 06:49 PM

Any news/update as to when Denon will begin shipping the 1920?

BZiggyZ · 07-15-05, 01:00 PM

Crutchfield has it listed on their site for preorder to arrive 7/22.

Looks like upgrades include an HDMI instead of DVI, SACD and DVD-A capability, and new DAC's.

Q of BanditZ · 07-15-05, 02:00 PM

My God, is the 1910 even a year old yet?

AlieniceT · 07-15-05, 02:15 PM

Burr-Brown PCM-1738 192kHz/24-bit audio DAC's are the same ones listed on the specs for the new top-of the line Pioneer DV-989AVi. Not bad.

Faroudja DCDi included as with the 1910. Wonder if it is still the FLI-23xx series chipset. If it is, this player may struggle to find an audience, given that the macroblock bug has been around for quite some time now. If the chipset is new, and the MB is gone, this player could be extremely popular.

I would think that Denon would not be in a rush to release another player with MB, so I would expect that this should be a pretty good model.

yobob · 07-15-05, 02:50 PM

Any speculation of when we might see the first review?

AlieniceT · 07-19-05, 10:13 AM

From the Denon 2005 summer product conference just concluded: Faroudja DCDi in the DVD-1920 is FLI-2301, same as in the DVD-1910. Unless they have it set up differently or have learned how to eliminate the MB bug, this is a BIG MISTAKE by Denon.

Otherwise, HDMI 1.1 with digital bass management over HDMI for DVD-Audio, and the Burr-Brown DAC's look encouraging.

The Bottom Line, however: ANOTHER UPSCALING PLAYER WITH FAROUDJUNK MACROBLOCKING!!! THANK YOU, DENON, FROM THE BOTTOM OF OUR HEARTS!!

Chris Gerhard · 07-19-05, 01:59 PM

I agree, another FLI2301 player isn't going to generate much interest. It may turn out to be a big improvement over the DVD-1910 but that isn't saying much. Maybe next year we will see the next generation DCDi chip but who knows at this point.

Chris

JonStern · 07-19-05, 02:27 PM

Could someone please explain or provide a link to the macroblock bug?

I was on the point of getting the Denon DVD-2910 when I read about the imminent release of the 1920, which seemed like a good budget choice. Does the 2910 also have this bug? The 3910?

Thanks!

Chris Gerhard · 07-19-05, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonStern

Could someone please explain or provide a link to the macroblock bug?

I was on the point of getting the Denon DVD-2910 when I read about the imminent release of the 1920, which seemed like a good budget choice. Does the 2910 also have this bug? The 3910?

Thanks!

Yes, the 2910 and 3910 both have the Faroudja FLI2310 and will suffer the macroblocking enhancement on many displays. It is a very annoying problem and shows up as blotches or blocks in dark scenes primarily. Not all displays are affected by this problem. I have a player with the FLI2301 and can live with it but some displays are worse. You might be able to determine how your monitor performs with these flawed chips by doing a search here.

Chris

BillP · 07-19-05, 05:15 PM

MB is much less on the 3910 than other players with the Faroudja chip. I suspect the 1920 will be similar to the 1910 in terms of PQ, which is not as good as the 2910 or 3910.

jonnyozero3 · 07-20-05, 12:08 AM

Looking here:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/edit...DVDPlayers.php

I noticed the two 1920 models (756S and 1920) had two different video DACs listed about halfway down the list:

Discrete 10-bit, 108-MHz Video DAC - 480i (Integrated I/P Converter/Video DAC)
Discrete 11-bit, 216-MHz Analog Devices Video DAC (ADV-7322) 480p

But, it says the silver 756S has the 10bit and the 1920 has the 11bit. Anyone think there is truth to this, or is it just a misprint. I'm guessing a misprint and both versions have both DACs since it's talking 480i and 480p respectively, but it still seemed like an odd thing to screw up since its so obvious in such a chart.

jonnyozero3 · 07-20-05, 12:10 AM

Also - I forgot to add my second question: Does anyone expect the 1920's audio in DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, or in 2 channel to be superior to audio from a Oppo DV971H or a Panny S77/S97? I'm not quite clear on how the $200 to $400 range of players stack up audio-wise.

AlieniceT · 07-20-05, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyozero3

Also - I forgot to add my second question: Does anyone expect the 1920's audio in DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, or in 2 channel to be superior to audio from a Oppo DV971H or a Panny S77/S97? I'm not quite clear on how the $200 to $400 range of players stack up audio-wise.

I expect the audio performance of the DVD-1920 will be better than the Oppo and the Panny S77/S97, based on the DAC's that Denon has chosen. This is strictly from the analog outs, however. I think the main upgrade of the 1920 from the 1910 will be in the audio section. It's also important to point out that the 1920 will pass multichannel audio (DVD-Video and Audio, at least ) via HDMI 1.1

BZiggyZ · 07-20-05, 12:15 PM

New in-stock eta is 8/12. I'm pretty sure I'll be purchasing this player, but I wouldn't presume to offer a review since I'll initially only be using its component output to 480i.

AlieniceT · 07-20-05, 12:55 PM

I ordered one from Crutchfield last Friday 7/15. Got the email from them yesterday that the ETA was pushed back to 8/12. I'll be running this one in my second system (main system has Pio 59AVi & Oppo for R2 / PAL discs).
I will have the Silicon Optix HQV Benchmark DVD before 8/12, so I will put the machine through its' paces once I have upacked it. If it does well, I will keep it. If not, back she goes to Crutchfield.

As I mentioned before, I think it will be a nice audio player that hopefully does not have the same level of MB as the 1910.

dazbug · 07-21-05, 03:19 AM

you would think Denon would have fixed the MB pronlem wouldnt u before release?? We can only wait and see.....

BillP · 07-21-05, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazbug

you would think Denon would have fixed the MB pronlem wouldnt u before release?? We can only wait and see.....

Since it is Faroudja working on fixing MB, not Denon or any other DVD manufacturer, I doubt it has been fixed for this new player. BUt only time will tell.

jonnyozero3 · 07-21-05, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Since it is Faroudja working on fixing MB, not Denon or any other DVD manufacturer, I doubt it has been fixed for this new player. BUt only time will tell.

Yes, but can't the manufactureres do software tweaks to minimize it greatly? I think that must be the case when players like the S97 improve their MB levels through firmware. I'm hoping they've refined things a bit. Hell I may just get the Oppo and be done with it - I'm sick with indecision.

BillP · 07-21-05, 06:21 PM

Yes, some players have minimized MB, but I do not believe any have been able to eliminate it entirely.

TigerAspect · 07-21-05, 08:11 PM

Related audio question:
How would you rate the Burr-Brown 24-bit, 192-kHz DSD-1791 Audio DACs?
I'm at a loss to the hierarchy of all these DACs.

-Alex-

Stimby · 07-22-05, 02:19 AM

One of the best DACs availible IF(big IF) implemented properly and carefully.

TigerAspect · 07-22-05, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stimby

One of the best DACs availible IF(big IF) implemented properly and carefully.

Thanks Stimby.
I got a brand new Denon DVD-2200 (factory sealed and at a very good price) and waiting for it to arrive. It was the audio DAC in that player that I was inquiring about (Burr-Brown 1791), and I'm hoping it will sound very nice with DVD-A and SA-CD DVDs. Your experience with this is appreciated.

-Alex-

BillP · 07-22-05, 04:49 PM

The audio DACs in the 2200 are nice, but nowhere as nice as in the 2900 (BB custom 1790 DACs) or 3910 (BB 1796 DACs). I would not say that the BB 1791s are "one of the best DACs available." Of course, everything's relative.

CCarncross · 07-22-05, 11:37 PM

FYI, its the same DACs that the Pioneer DV-563a has. SO supposedly they are far fromt eh best BB DAC's available. If you check out teh IC database at alexhardware you can see what the general pecking order of BB DAC's is by looking at teh DAC's in teh better pieces...

TigerAspect · 07-23-05, 02:57 AM

Bummed, but I learned something. Thanks.

-A-

AlieniceT · 07-23-05, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCarncross

If you check out the IC database at alexhardware you can see what the general pecking order of BB DAC's is by looking at the DAC's in the better pieces...

Nice to see that the BB PCM-1738's spec'd for the Denon DVD-1920 were previously utilized by Denon in their AVR-5803 flagship receiver. Granted, the AVR-5805 has newer reference grade DAC's, but considering what the AVR-5803 retailed for, it seems as though the 1920 will have some sweet sounds coming out of its' analog outs.

BillP · 07-23-05, 09:30 AM

But the real question is what will PQ look like. There was a major difference between the 1910 and the higher 2910/3910 models. Hopefully, the 1920 will look a lot better than the 1910.

Stimby · 07-24-05, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillP

The audio DACs in the 2200 are nice, but nowhere as nice as in the 2900 (BB custom 1790 DACs) or 3910 (BB 1796 DACs). I would not say that the BB 1791s are "one of the best DACs available." Of course, everything's relative.

Meant for the price, of course, you can always find better DACs in more costlier products.

boe · 07-26-05, 09:14 AM

I can't believe they used the same MB chipset. It is like Denon hadn't heard a single concern of any of the readers! Hell, I've contacted two of the top people at Denon regarding this on the 2910 directly over 6 months ago. They said they were aware of the issue and there was NO way to correct the issue completely. (talmadge and baker)

BillP · 07-26-05, 08:10 PM

My understanding is that Faroudja is working on a fix, with a new chip. I bet Denon is correct that there is no way to totally fix it with the current Faroudja chip. Fortunately, I do not see any MB with my DLP.

07-08-05, 06:49 PM	#1 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a4ac4393' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:30&n=a4ac4393' border='0' alt=''></a>
Pete AVS Special Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,611	Denon DVD-1920 Any news/update as to when Denon will begin shipping the 1920?

07-15-05, 02:00 PM	#3 \| Link
Q of BanditZ HD Enthusiast Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 15,056	My God, is the 1910 even a year old yet? __________________ Great ISF Job by Chad B.

07-15-05, 02:50 PM	#5 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
yobob AVS Special Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: San Antonio Posts: 1,412	Any speculation of when we might see the first review?

07-19-05, 05:15 PM	#10 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
BillP AVS Addicted Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: PA Posts: 11,425	MB is much less on the 3910 than other players with the Faroudja chip. I suspect the 1920 will be similar to the 1910 in terms of PQ, which is not as good as the 2910 or 3910.

07-20-05, 12:08 AM	#11 \| Link
jonnyozero3 Mert Decoder Join Date: May 2004 Location: 000000N 0000000E Posts: 1,469 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	Different Video DACs for the 1920s?? Looking here: http://www.audioholics.com/news/edit...DVDPlayers.php I noticed the two 1920 models (756S and 1920) had two different video DACs listed about halfway down the list: Discrete 10-bit, 108-MHz Video DAC - 480i (Integrated I/P Converter/Video DAC) Discrete 11-bit, 216-MHz Analog Devices Video DAC (ADV-7322) 480p But, it says the silver 756S has the 10bit and the 1920 has the 11bit. Anyone think there is truth to this, or is it just a misprint. I'm guessing a misprint and both versions have both DACs since it's talking 480i and 480p respectively, but it still seemed like an odd thing to screw up since its so obvious in such a chart. __________________ - Jon "010 Meh" Ascend Acoustics Owners Google Map

07-15-05, 01:00 PM	#2 \| Link
BZiggyZ Advanced Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 692	Crutchfield has it listed on their site for preorder to arrive 7/22. Looks like upgrades include an HDMI instead of DVI, SACD and DVD-A capability, and new DAC's.

07-15-05, 02:15 PM	#4 \| Link
AlieniceT Out of the loop Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 378	Burr-Brown PCM-1738 192kHz/24-bit audio DAC's are the same ones listed on the specs for the new top-of the line Pioneer DV-989AVi. Not bad. Faroudja DCDi included as with the 1910. Wonder if it is still the FLI-23xx series chipset. If it is, this player may struggle to find an audience, given that the macroblock bug has been around for quite some time now. If the chipset is new, and the MB is gone, this player could be extremely popular. I would think that Denon would not be in a rush to release another player with MB, so I would expect that this should be a pretty good model.

07-19-05, 10:13 AM	#6 \| Link
AlieniceT Out of the loop Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 378	From the Denon 2005 summer product conference just concluded: Faroudja DCDi in the DVD-1920 is FLI-2301, same as in the DVD-1910. Unless they have it set up differently or have learned how to eliminate the MB bug, this is a BIG MISTAKE by Denon. Otherwise, HDMI 1.1 with digital bass management over HDMI for DVD-Audio, and the Burr-Brown DAC's look encouraging. The Bottom Line, however: ANOTHER UPSCALING PLAYER WITH FAROUDJUNK MACROBLOCKING!!! THANK YOU, DENON, FROM THE BOTTOM OF OUR HEARTS!!

07-19-05, 01:59 PM	#7 \| Link
Chris Gerhard AVS Special Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Missouri Posts: 5,830 Classified Rating: 100% (2)	I agree, another FLI2301 player isn't going to generate much interest. It may turn out to be a big improvement over the DVD-1910 but that isn't saying much. Maybe next year we will see the next generation DCDi chip but who knows at this point. Chris

07-19-05, 02:27 PM	#8 \| Link
JonStern Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 79	Could someone please explain or provide a link to the macroblock bug? I was on the point of getting the Denon DVD-2910 when I read about the imminent release of the 1920, which seemed like a good budget choice. Does the 2910 also have this bug? The 3910? Thanks!

07-20-05, 12:10 AM	#12 \| Link
jonnyozero3 Mert Decoder Join Date: May 2004 Location: 000000N 0000000E Posts: 1,469 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	Also - I forgot to add my second question: Does anyone expect the 1920's audio in DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, or in 2 channel to be superior to audio from a Oppo DV971H or a Panny S77/S97? I'm not quite clear on how the $200 to $400 range of players stack up audio-wise. __________________ - Jon "010 Meh" Ascend Acoustics Owners Google Map

07-20-05, 12:15 PM	#14 \| Link
BZiggyZ Advanced Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 692	New in-stock eta is 8/12. I'm pretty sure I'll be purchasing this player, but I wouldn't presume to offer a review since I'll initially only be using its component output to 480i.

07-20-05, 12:55 PM	#15 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
AlieniceT Out of the loop Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 378	I ordered one from Crutchfield last Friday 7/15. Got the email from them yesterday that the ETA was pushed back to 8/12. I'll be running this one in my second system (main system has Pio 59AVi & Oppo for R2 / PAL discs). I will have the Silicon Optix HQV Benchmark DVD before 8/12, so I will put the machine through its' paces once I have upacked it. If it does well, I will keep it. If not, back she goes to Crutchfield. As I mentioned before, I think it will be a nice audio player that hopefully does not have the same level of MB as the 1910.

07-21-05, 03:19 AM	#16 \| Link
dazbug Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Australia, Melb Posts: 457	you would think Denon would have fixed the MB pronlem wouldnt u before release?? We can only wait and see.....

07-21-05, 06:21 PM	#19 \| Link
BillP AVS Addicted Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: PA Posts: 11,425	Yes, some players have minimized MB, but I do not believe any have been able to eliminate it entirely.

07-21-05, 08:11 PM	#20 \| Link
TigerAspect Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: S.W. Ontario Posts: 257	Related audio question: How would you rate the Burr-Brown 24-bit, 192-kHz DSD-1791 Audio DACs? I'm at a loss to the hierarchy of all these DACs. -Alex-

07-22-05, 02:19 AM	#21 \| Link
Stimby Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 402	One of the best DACs availible IF(big IF) implemented properly and carefully.

07-22-05, 04:49 PM	#23 \| Link
BillP AVS Addicted Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: PA Posts: 11,425	The audio DACs in the 2200 are nice, but nowhere as nice as in the 2900 (BB custom 1790 DACs) or 3910 (BB 1796 DACs). I would not say that the BB 1791s are "one of the best DACs available." Of course, everything's relative. Last edited by BillP; 07-22-05 at 04:54 PM..

07-22-05, 11:37 PM	#24 \| Link
CCarncross Happy and Broke Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 3,361	FYI, its the same DACs that the Pioneer DV-563a has. SO supposedly they are far fromt eh best BB DAC's available. If you check out teh IC database at alexhardware you can see what the general pecking order of BB DAC's is by looking at teh DAC's in teh better pieces...

07-23-05, 02:57 AM	#25 \| Link
TigerAspect Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: S.W. Ontario Posts: 257	Bummed, but I learned something. Thanks. -A-

07-23-05, 09:30 AM	#27 \| Link
BillP AVS Addicted Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: PA Posts: 11,425	But the real question is what will PQ look like. There was a major difference between the 1910 and the higher 2910/3910 models. Hopefully, the 1920 will look a lot better than the 1910.

07-26-05, 09:14 AM	#29 \| Link
boe AVS Special Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,046	I can't believe they used the same MB chipset. It is like Denon hadn't heard a single concern of any of the readers! Hell, I've contacted two of the top people at Denon regarding this on the 2910 directly over 6 months ago. They said they were aware of the issue and there was NO way to correct the issue completely. (talmadge and baker)

07-26-05, 08:10 PM	#30 \| Link	<a href='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adclick.php?n=a591f81a' target='_blank'><img src='http://rev.avsforum.com/phpAdsNew/adview.php?what=zone:36&n=a591f81a' border='0' alt=''></a>
BillP AVS Addicted Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: PA Posts: 11,425	My understanding is that Faroudja is working on a fix, with a new chip. I bet Denon is correct that there is no way to totally fix it with the current Faroudja chip. Fortunately, I do not see any MB with my DLP.