JS4127 up-scaling player

[Von]

I was at my local Sears today buying a gift card for a friend when I niticed they had a new up-scaling player that I have not seen. The model number is JS4127, I believe it is made by Memorex. Does any one have any info on this player. Price wise it pretty cheap.

[Von]

More info from the Sears web page

JSI Single Disc DVD Player with HDMI
Sears item #05757145000 Mfr. model #JS4127
A slim, advanced DVD player from JSI that is multiformat compatible to handle your entire entertainment collection - including your DVD home video family memories and MPEG4 video files. Player outputs 1080i/720p resolution through the HDMI.


HDMI output provides an uncompressed all digital A/V link
Progressive scan (480p) technology for high-resolution playback of DVD images
English/French/Spanish/Italian/German/Portuguese/Swedish menus
Vacuum fluorescent display - easy-to-read
On screen active navigation
DVD/VCD/SVCD/DVD-R/-RW, DVD+R/+RW compatible playback
CD/CD-DA, CD-R/RW, MP2, WMA, MPEG4 & JPEG encoded disc compatible playback
DTS digital pass-through output
Dolby® Digital AC3 with stereo downmix output
Coaxial digital, Component, S-Video, and Composite output

[Von]

After more research, I believe this a rebadged 850. It uses the Zoran Vaddis 778 for MPEG decoding and de-interlacing duties, and the Vaddis HD Extreme for scaling.

[jliles]

Hi, Von...

I purchased this player yesterday and have been doing some preliminary tests with it. Here are my initial impressions, in case you or anyone else is interested...

Purchased at Sears at their list price (I know you are not supposed to post non MSRP prices- you can get the price at the Sears web site using the link Von posted. I'll just say it is very inexpensive for an upscaling player. )

The box comes with an HDMI cable, a nice touch for such an inexpensive player. My TV is a Samsung 26" CRT model with a DVI input, so I use an adapter to connect the HDMI player to my DVI input. I also own a Momitsu V880N which had previously been attached to the DVI input. Though I love the Momitsu, especially the network capabilities, the loader has become extremely finicky (even with the loader firmware update) and I often have to reboot it to get it to recognize a pressed, retail disc.

Also (I suspect unlike many videophiles here) I watch many DivX/XVid files (mostly anime fansubs) and I have been coming across more and more files the Momitsu can't play. The ability to play MPEG-4 files gracefully is very important to me and was a major consideration in trying this player.

This player is not going to win any awards for solid construction, but I expected that. The unit is very lightweight, and the tray is quite skinny and seems flimsy. The remote is not the worst one I've ever seen, but it definitely leaves something to be desired. Lots of tiny, similar-looking buttons. There are no distinct buttons for accessing the setup menu or for performing slow motion searches - some buttons do double duty. Otherwise, the remote seems to work ok, you don't have to have it pointing *exactly* at the unit for it to work.

The setup menu is as absolutely basic as can be. The setup menu does allow for selection of screen fitting options similar to what the Momitsu offers (full screen, fit to screen, original aspect ratio, etc). Setting changes cannot be made on the fly. The disc must be stopped for any setting changes to be made.

Much to my joy, this player remembers where you left off on several discs, even if the discs have been removed from the player and the player is powered off. This is something that drives me bananas with the Momitsu that I really wish more manufacturers would add to any future product.

The HDMI output is not capable of outputting 480i - only 480P, 720P, and 1080i. Using 1080i, this player is NOT smart enough to pillarbox 4:3 material itself (at least not with my display and the few discs I tried). Fortunately, my TV allows me to switch between 16:9 and 4:3 aspect ratios when an HD signal is input, but if your display doesn't allow you to do so, and you hate seeing stretched video, this player is NOT for you.

I have not played enough movies yet to make a final decision on image quality. Film-based DVD source seems to play better on this player than video-based source. On one video-based DVD (Muppet show season 1) colors were bleeding and seemed way too saturated compared to the Momitsu. The Momitsu seems to handle video-based material a bit better. Film so far looks good, but I need a little more time to give a more thorough impression.

This player shines in it's ability to play MPEG-4 files. This player easily handled files that the Momitsu refused to play and my Neuneo MPEG-4 player (which supposedly can handle GMC and QPEL) choked on. Using "fit to screen" mode, files played in their correct aspect ratios (Yes, interestingly, this player knows how to pillarbox an mpeg-4 file but not a true DVD). Video files are upscaled. Despite what the manual says, files encoded with GMC and QPEL play fine. The file browser will also display and play MPEG-1 and Mpeg-2 files, as well as the new .divx format (Divx 6 container). .Divx files with multiple audio and subtitles play beautifully, though menus and chapters are not implemented. The player also seems to recognize .srt and .ssa subtitles without issue.

The player is made by the same company that produces the Koss DVD players sold at Sears. I was able to make my unit region free using remote codes available for recent Koss players at Videohelp.com. If it is allowed and people are interested, I will post the codes needed. Pal > NTSC conversion seems fine.

I will try to do a little more testing over the next few days. If I keep it, I may swich the Momitsu to upconvert over component, while this player takes the DVI input. The Momitsu will take over networking and video/4:3 duty while this player would do mpeg-4 and film-based upconverting. At least maybe this will last me until the next generation of networking players comes out with H.264 capability...


Julie

[whitenoise]

Very nice review, Julie! Can you shed any light as to whether the player can upconvert via component output?

[jliles]

I wouldn't be surprised if it could via some hidden menu, since I think the Samsung has the same chip and it was hacked to allow upconverting over component. I was able to make it region free because I noticed it was so similar to the KOSS players and it happened to use the same hack. I am hoping some enterprising person can find an upconvert hack. I will give it a try, but no setting that I see will allow 1080i output over component.

As for my comment about the picture size automatically stretching for 4:3 material - I wonder if it has something to do with my display or the fact I am using an HDMI > DVI adapter. Why else would you have the picture size settings in the main menu (fit to screen, original aspect ratio, etc)? The Momitsu has similar picture size settings and seems to do this without a problem. I will try hooking it up via component just to see if this is what might be happening.

Julie

[Von]

Thanks Julie, looks like I will be giving it a test drive.

[xeres456]

Not worth the price. Cheap remote and the unit runs hot. I returned it after a few hours because my Sony Receiver only has 1 coaxial audio input that my cable box uses.This is however a good mpeg4 player. The divx and xvid playback were flawless. It took a long while for the disc with about 10 xvid files in 3 folders to load. Displays long filenames and if you hit the info button the title of the divx file is shown along with the mp3 sample rate. I couldn't get the player in the progressive mode. Its done from a menu and the menu was confusing and the manual was no help. The model isn't even listed on JSI's website, so no help there. At about half its current price it would made an excellent divx player. If there is a price reduction, I might buy it as a backup player for my bedroom so I can play my xvids and such.

[HTMAN21]

Originally Posted by xeres456

Not worth the price. Cheap remote and the unit runs hot. I returned it after a few hours because my Sony Receiver only has 1 coaxial audio input that my cable box uses.This is however a good mpeg4 player. The divx and xvid playback were flawless. It took a long while for the disc with about 10 xvid files in 3 folders to load. Displays long filenames and if you hit the info button the title of the divx file is shown along with the mp3 sample rate. I couldn't get the player in the progressive mode. Its done from a menu and the menu was confusing and the manual was no help. The model isn't even listed on JSI's website, so no help there. At about half its current price it would made an excellent divx player. If there is a price reduction, I might buy it as a backup player for my bedroom so I can play my xvids and such.

Not worth the price because your cheap Sony only has 1 coaxial audio input and you can not navigate the simple menu to get progressive out.

Maybe you should keep the player and upgrade your receiver then take 5 minutes to navigate the simple menu.

[jliles]

For those of you who are interested in mpeg-4 playback, I can add a few more facts. This player will also play .sub formatted subtitles and will happily play Nero's mp4 container (standard profile ONLY, though - it refused to play a file I encoded using the "cinema" profile).

As a test, I created a short Nero file encoded using the standard profile and added a chapter in the middle. Interestingly, when I pressed the info button twice to show the file details, the player knew the file had a chapter, but would not let me navigate there using the chapter skip button.

Been busy at work, so I have not had much of a chance to evaluate film upscaling.

Julie

[xeres456]

Maybe I should clarify, I spent 25 minutes at the menu screen which easy to navigate to and I selected progressive output. There was a checkmark by the word progressive but the player would not switch to the progessive mode. When I put my TV in the regular mode the output was fine. I reconnected my Panasonic f85, verified that it was in the progressive mode and everything was fine. So I know its not my setup but the player. Maybe I had a bad one. As for my receiver, it has 3 optical inputs and only 1 coxaial input and 1 optical output. Most modern receivers have more optical inputs. While I don't have a top of the line setup, neither do most people who are evaluating a no name DVD player at SEARS.

[HTMAN21]

xeres456,
My apologies. My statement was absolutely too harsh.

I just do not think the reasons that you listed warrant your saying that the player is not worth the price. I bought one of these on Sunday just to see if HDMI could be decent at the price level.

In comparison to my progressive Panny the PQ is about the same. The JSI does seem to sound slightly better though. I have tried 3 other upconverting DVDs and I think that if they are worth $150 or more then the JSI is worth $100.

[bitpoh]

Julie any new update you can provide on the JSI, especially on picture quality and more importantly, the possibility of a component up-conversion hack?

[lgmayka]

Will this DVD player play, at full resolution, a DivX file encoded at 1280x720? Or does it downscale the file to 853x480, then upscale it (thus losing some resolution)?

[Kabanero]

lgmayka,

DivX file encoded at 1280x720 would be considered as HD (Hi-Definition). I don't have this player, but I don't think it suppors HD.

[zrdb]

I purchased one of these today when it was on sale for $69.99. I, like most of you am gonna use it to watch fansub anime. I reincoded a file with QPEL and GMC to see if it would play it-it wouldn't even load. But that's ok because 99% of the stuff you dl is xvid without QPEL or GMC and it plays these flawlessly. It will upconvert avi to 720P or 1080I. To use 1080I for avi set the output to componet (duh!!) and then select 1080I from the menu, for 720P select progressive and 720P. I think that 1080I works better for avi the 720P because you get overscanning with progressive. The picture playing mpeg4 (xvid, divx) looks just as good as my LGDVB418 which will upscale unprotected dvds. I will add more as I use this unit-but my initial impression is very good.

[Bud-man]

I dont agree with the Qpel 99% but all depends on where and what you dload for xvid, my philips 642 wont play qpel, but my cyberhome 1600 recorder will, i thought ive read that this player will play qpel?
I might buy it today and try it out, there's no cyberhome 655's in any walmarts around me so this might be it.

[zrdb]

Update-this thing is a piece of ****. It was working fine but 45 minutes into my test session a disc that had 7 xvid selections that had worked fine at the start-the display said "unsupported file format". I ejected it then loaded again-4 of the 7 selectios registered, tried it again, 3 this time. One file that played fine the 1st time did the herky jerky then stopped playing, then it wouldn't load a standard R1 dvd-well, ya'll get the idea. It's going back to Sears as soon as I get done with this post, I haven't decided to spend more money and get a name brand unit or try another one of these in the hope that I just got a bad one.

[jliles]

Hi, everyone,

Sorry, I have been very busy at work lately, so I haven't had much time to monitor the thread. I can try to answer some of your questions. Most of what I use the player for is fansubbed anime, film-based dvd playback and 16:9 material (4:3 and video based material gets played in another player).

First, the player *does* play files encoded with with GMC or QPEL. Admittedly I have not tried a file encoded with both at the same time, but to be honest I have never come across this. I may try this as an experiment just to see what happens. Zrdb - please keep in mind if you are encoding files with GMC you have to watch out for how many warp points you are using. If you're using XVID, I *think* it uses 3 warp point GMC by default. Stand alone players that can handle GMC normally only can handle 1 warp point GMC. That could be the cause of the erratic playback you saw.

That said, zrdb, I think your player was defective. Try to exchange it for another. I have had a lot of "cheap" import players (and one not so cheap ) and none have been as reliable and largely frustration-free as this one. Is it like a Pioneer or a Panasonic? Um...no. But it does 95% of what I want it to do (and even exceeded my expectations in other ways) without a lot of hassle at a very reasonable price.

I haven't tried it yet (this could be the source of another experiment) but I am pretty sure this player won't play avi files that are natively HD. I will give it a shot and will let you know, but don't get your hopes up.

Still cannot get the player to upscale over component, but I haven't had much time to play around and I'm not all that good at finding those kind of hacks. I believe this model is also sold under the Oritron brand name, and I am hoping some very enterprising soul will help find the hack!

I don't exactly have a high-end setup, but I have been very happy with upscaled film based DVD playback. The only comparisons I have are with the Momitsu V880N and a hacked XBOX. Frankly the XBOX is not the greatest at DVD playback. The Momitsu did better at video playback and does not stretch 4:3 material, but the JSI does do better with film. It's not a HUGE difference, but noticeable to me.

Julie

[zrdb]

I took it back and got a 2nd one and it was just like the 1st one in terms of what it would play-I started experimenting and found that if you use dvd rw's it evidently hates +rw's, I couldn't get any xvid on + rw's to play, tried the same ones on an -rw, no problems. Same with + and - r's. It will play 1 point GMC, same as my LG, OPEL-no go. I kinda think mpeg 4 playback on this unit is hit or miss. My recommendation is to spend a few more bucks and get a name brand divx capable dvd player for a primary and use this for a backup. A lot has been written about the LGDVB418 which is my primary divx player, and true -it cost more but in the end it plays avi files a lot more dependably than this thing does. Craveat Emptor

[nissand]

Philips Divx players have this annoying problem where they letterbox 16:9 Xvid avi's as if even a widescreen TV was 4:3 (even when the player's output is set to 16:9). Philips hasn't yet addressed this problem thru a f/w update and it's annoying as hell.

Does this player have any similar issues with the decoder in it?

[Bud-man]

Seems everyone is reporting here is using this player for xvid, more than the upconverting capabilities,i have a panasonic plasma ED and was thinking it really isnt needed.
Also the lack of optical out is a deal breaker as coxial audio is ok.
I have a cyberhome recorder with only coaxial out and it does not pass DTS thru it
Anyone confirm DTS on this player?

[Bud-man]

http://www.jsiproducts.com/product%2...yer-js4127.htm
heres the website, it shows a pic of a orbitron....haha, i wonder what model orbi uses?

[jliles]

OK,

I decided to settle some of the playback questions through some formal tests rather than my own anecdotal evidence. I used a tool called MPEG4Modifier to look through some of my files and find some that were encoded with GMC/QPEL to determine if they can play or not.

Files were burned on CD-R using Nero 7 in ISO9660-Joilet, mode 1. The disk was finalized.

I should note that I did not encode these files myself, and I am relying on the accuracy of the MPEG4Modifier tool to indicate the presence of GMC/QPEL.

High definition (1280 x 720) DivX file: Did not play. (This was the Skeleton Key trailer from the DivX.com website).

File with QPEL only: Played flawlessly.

File with GMC only: Tried two files. Both played very well. There was occasional smearing of lines during fast scenes. Interestingly, both files were GMC 3 warp point.

File with both QPEL and GMC 3 warp point: Tried two files, both played flawlessly, though these particular files did not have much in the way of fast action scenes.

Media tests:

Files on Verbatim 16x DVD-R single layer, closed session: All files recognized and played back.

Files on Verbatim 16x DVD+R single layer, closed session, burned with DVD-ROM bit set: All files recognized and played back.

Files on 4x Verbatim DVD+R dual layer, closed session, burned with DVD-ROM bit set: All files recognized and played back.

I should have some -RW media I can test with, not sure if I have any +RW around here, but I will look and test. I normally don't use RW media for playback.

Nissand: I have a widescreen TV. MPEG-4 files all play in their correct aspect ratios. 16:9 files fill the screen, while 4:3 material is pillarboxed. I should note that this is only for video files. 4:3 DVDs are STRETCHED, not pillarboxed.

Bud-man: Sorry, I currently just use my TV's own sound, so I can't answer your question about DTS. I can check the manual for you if you like.

Let me know if you have any other questions or have something else you'd like me to test.

Julie

[zrdb]

You guys must have had much better luck with your samples than I did-what are the chances of 2 different samples of the same player doing the same thing? I finally said screw it and took the 2nd one back and got a Toshiba Sd-4980U and guess what? It plays everything that the JS4127 wouldn't. Can you honestly tell me that the JS is a better player than the Toshiba? They say the proof is in the pudding, not only does the Tosh play all the stuff the JS wouldn't, it has a cleaner picture and it will upscale through the componet with mpeg4 files. I had the same experiance with the Cyberhome upscaling dvd player, pure junk! Nuff said.

[Bud-man]

I went to sears last night, looked at the jsi, above it was a toshiba 4980, for $20 more i bought that, when i got home i read that the 4980 is crappy too,didnt even open the box and try it out because the sales kid said there is now a 30 day return policy and mandatory 15% restocking fee.

zrdb, did your tosh come with a hdmi cable?, also how do you like the blue panel light? and ive read when switching chapters theres a pop sound thru the speakers......give me a report buddy!

My report!!, this player sucks also, it doesnt play 5:1 with hdmi connected thru optical out, DTS works fine,the blue lighted tray is horrible,when playing 5:1 i get a very loud screeching sound thru my plasmas speakers......HORRIBLE!!
Also i do like the front button for 480p-720p-1080i.....but there is NO difference in picture quality!!
I have a ED plasma which is 480p so upconverting is not worth it on any ED plasma!!!!

[zrdb]

No hdmi cable, I found out how to get rid of the infamous "blue light" special, go into setup, select rating and you'll notice a display brighness option, select dim-poof, the blue glow is gone!! I haven't heard any popping through my speakers, it does upscale avi through the componet output. Only downside it that it doesn't seem to be able to read xvid/divx on either dvd-rw + or -'s, maybe it's just the brand cause I tried Fuji -rw's and Memorex +rw's. The manual states it will only read avi files burned to cd'r's-not true, either + or - r's play flawlessly, picture quality-very good, like I said at 1080I it looks very nice!I it a better machine than the JS? Most definetly, but my LG stll takes the cake for xvid/divx playback quality. I think the kid at Sears was giving you a bunch of BS about a mandatory 15% restocking fee. From what I understand the hdmi cable will only output pcm audio, not AC3.

[chaarlieee]

Since a few of you have owned this player for a few months already, I was wondering about the durability of it. Have any of you owners had any problems with it so far? I am only going to use it to play DVDs, since I have no interest in burning movies, converting filetypes and making movies, looking at pictures, etc.

I just bought this dvd player a few days ago and I will be picking up my JVC 30" widescreen HDTV w/ HDMI this coming friday, so I will be able to try it out then.

Anyway, how durable is the JSI, how is the picture quality using the HDMI output, and how is the sound quality? Thanks.

[zrdb]

If it's like most of the cheap units on the market you'll be lucky if it lasts a few months before it craps out on you.

[chaarlieee]

Well, we have two cheap players in my house that have lasted for over 2 years. I'm only going to use this JSI to play DVD's anyway.

I don't really care about any features other than durability, picture quality and sound quality.
Can anyone comment about this?